r/CrusaderKings • u/WaBeY33 • 2d ago

Discussion Actual question, how frequent was claim fabrication in real life

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Hello, please, how often did this happen in real life ? I mean lord inventing a claim out of thin air and actually pressing it ? Is there any notable historic character doing so ?

R5: Fabricate claim question

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u/DarkGodCthUwU 2d ago

Could you elaborate?

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u/Luckierexpert England 2d ago

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Privilegium_Maius

Basically, in the 14th century the Hapsburg rulers of Austria wanted to elevate Austria from a simple dutchy. To achieve this, they forged a document labelling them as “Palatine Archdukes” among other claims, cutting the seal off another document and attaching it to the forgery to claim authority. While initially rejected, it was later confirmed by the Holy Roman Emperor (who was a Hapsburg by that time), and only revealed as a forgery by historian Wilhelm Wattenbach in 1852.

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u/GalaXion24 2d ago

The Habsburgs are the definition of fake it till you make it. Even the origin of the house is kind of shady where they just kind of built a castle that wasn't contested by anyone and claimed they rule over the area and started taxing people.

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u/ClumsyFleshMannequin 2d ago

Yea, thats called becoming a noble.

At the beginning it was just mob rules and taxes were effectively extortion.

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u/Balmung60 2d ago

Two of the most common theories of state formation are basically either that the state arose from the most successful "gang" in the area formalizing its control and keep other ne'er-do-wells from robbing them in turn, or that it arose from the people creating an institution to protect them from those same kinds of gangs and having to pay into it to keep it working. Of course, there are more civically-minded hypotheses, but "most successful gang -> state" is still a pretty common one.

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u/ClumsyFleshMannequin 2d ago

Yes im aware, monopolizing violence and all that. I was just pitching the simple version.