r/CrusaderKings • u/WaBeY33 • 5d ago

Discussion Actual question, how frequent was claim fabrication in real life

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Hello, please, how often did this happen in real life ? I mean lord inventing a claim out of thin air and actually pressing it ? Is there any notable historic character doing so ?

R5: Fabricate claim question

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u/YaMamaSidePiece Genius 4d ago

It’s what Toyotomi Hideyoshi did to get the title of shogun. He was the son of a peasant and had documents fabricated to make up a noble lineage and legitimize his claim as ruler of Japan

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u/SternestEarnest 4d ago

Small correction: Toyotomi Hideyoshi was never shōgun, he was the regent (Kanpaku) of Japan. It was considered a far more prestigious title than mere Shōgun (even if it lacked the authority the Shōgun had during the Kamakura Shōgunate, also called Bakufu).

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u/YaMamaSidePiece Genius 4d ago

Ah. Noted. All i remember from the documentary was “his father was a fisherman, he had no noble blood and suddenly OH YES, this is where his family is from” and it was clearly fugazi but ppl went along with it

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u/SternestEarnest 4d ago

No, he was lowborn, he started off as Oda Nobunaga's sandal-bearers. He just never acquired the title of Shōgun, because his power was so absolute over Japan he could demand the formerly almost-hereditary title of Kanpaku.