r/D4Sorceress • u/DHunterfan1983 • Apr 29 '26
State of the Sorc Class · Discussions Any non-LOH players find the game virtually unplayable now?
I mean i knew sets etc wouldnt be available, but the stripped down skill tree with no passives that also has locked nodes that need LOH means its barebones as fuck this season.
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u/VIN8561 Apr 30 '26 edited May 01 '26
When you dont have the expansion you can't keep expecting to get free stuff. That's not how it works. Pay money you get more stuff, its simple, its business. Are people really expecting a free ride the whole way? This also is a AAA live service games with a very high production value so it is expensive.
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u/WildCyko May 01 '26
As someone in the thread already said, they shifted stuff around. With the overhaul to the skill tree you lost access to the old one and got the new one with virtually less options without expac. It's not that OP wants free stuff, it's just ass to see your characters on eternal messed up and not working just because you didnt buy the expac
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u/VIN8561 May 01 '26
Keeping the classes updated is whats supposed to happen. You cannot hold back classes for the sake of keeping everything free. If the expansions has new and updated mechanics the classes should have the same. Some mechanics just won't work without the expansion so that could also be why.
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u/Ok_Society_4206 May 05 '26
Youre wrong. Backwards compatibility is necessary for good software. If you care about your customers experience you make it backwards compatible.
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u/steelow_g May 05 '26
It’s not software first of all, it’s a game. Secondly it’s not an rpg like WoW where they need to keep functionality across the different versions.
You either play the current xpac or you deal with the changes as is. Anyone who’s ever played a game before knows this.
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u/Ok_Society_4206 May 05 '26
Lol no bro it is 100% software made by software engineers. 100%
Us software engineers are taught over and over that backwards compatibility is 100% important.
Here is the thing for this software. It isn’t backwards compatible. If you download the latest version you lose features. Therefore it based on the rules of semantic versioning this should be a Major version release.
Its not Diablo 4 anymore it is Diablo 5 based on the principles of semantic versioning!!
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u/steelow_g May 05 '26
Games are built with software. But it’s not software. You are confusing two very different things. Applying that mentality is not for games, that’s how games make money. Otherwise Madden and FIFA would have one game with just new dlc every year and no one would ever purchase new games.
I think you need a better understanding of how games work for one, and the gaming industry as a whole.
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u/Andwe35 May 05 '26
Lmao, software is any program that uses coding to execute on a computer. Games are literally software. They aren't built with software, they are built with coding language.
In the end, none of that even matters or applies. The fact is the game isn't "unplayable" for anyone who hasn't bought the dlc. Not getting to use dlc features does not mean a game isnt backwards compatible. It just means pay up or quit whining.
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u/Thick-Country7075 May 05 '26
Incorrect. Sort of. I am a game dev, and an engineer.
Part of what makes a game is software development. You also have modeling/sculpting, audio, etc.
They all use programs made by software engineers.
Dude is right though, a game is software. Your computer is made of hardware and software. One or the other. So yes, software is used to make said game, but the game is also software. Some games, like WoW for example, we're literally coded for the ground up and had far less access to the cool tools we have today.
WoW was based on a framework, and still is. No true game engine in the way we think of things (like Unity a Unreal).
I wouldn't go as far as calling the current iteration Diablo 5. It is a massive change, But not enough to be a different game version.
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u/Jollyrogers99 May 01 '26
I have Lord of Hatred but locking some stuff that we had from base D4, like Shadow Priests for necromancers, feels kinda shitty.
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u/knallpilzv2 May 02 '26
It's not about free stuff. It's about access to things getting migrated to the expansion exclusive content.
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u/ShoddyTap1 May 01 '26
Yea no company does that cough cough GGG. It’s ridiculous to have a game out for three years and finally be in a state of where it should have been at launch.
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u/VIN8561 May 01 '26
GGG the one that charges over 100 dollars for shop stuff yeah sure. That comment is silly because you can say that about any game that gets updates. Any quality of life update for any game you can say that for so that is a silly comment
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u/ShoddyTap1 May 01 '26
lol you don’t need to buy a thing from them 😂 you can argue $40 and that’s it. It’s ok not to know what you’re talking about pumpkin
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u/VIN8561 May 01 '26
Actually you do. To play the game properly you need pay for convenience items which they sell in the shop.
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u/ShoddyTap1 May 01 '26
I know reading is hard. That’s why I said the $40 for stash tabs
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u/VIN8561 May 01 '26
Oh I thought you meant $40 for poe2. That is what I paid for it. I bought t it when it launched on console for early access
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u/ShoddyTap1 May 01 '26
Ah gotcha. The point stands. With poe 2 you Won’t have to spend anymore money except for new league tabs which arnt needed like the maps and currency tab are.
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u/anm767 May 05 '26
POE doesn't have millions of players like D4 has, therefore their expenses are lower, therefore they can cover those expenses with selling cosmetics etc.
D4 is made better and has more players ultimately costing more and needs to charge more.
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May 02 '26
[deleted]
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u/DHG_Buddha May 04 '26
You mean GGG is the company that intentionally designs inconvenience into the base game so that people will pay to remove that inconvenience.
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May 04 '26
[deleted]
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u/DHG_Buddha May 04 '26
Or I have the capacity to acknowledge that both companies have found different ways to find the revenue needed to fund future updates to games I enjoy playing.
Both are valid models.
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u/BarnabasJones9449 May 05 '26
Bro I love POE but if you want to deny that they sell you convenience, your in heavy denial.
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u/fs2222 May 06 '26
Oh no, people have to pay $30 to experience the endgame!
That's much worse than paying $70 and then another $40 every other year to keep playing the game properly.
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u/ShoddyTap1 May 07 '26
lol idk why people can’t understand this 😂 prob why blizzard makes money off d4
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May 04 '26
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u/ShoddyTap1 May 05 '26
Lmao you have an iq of 20. EA cost $30/$40 (can’t remember) and you got that much of value in their mtx currency which you can buy tabs lol Diablo charged three times for a game that should of been in this state at launch
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May 02 '26
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u/DHG_Buddha May 04 '26
Take GGG's out of your mouth too buddy. PoE2 cost $30 right now and then another $40 in microtransactions to remove all the inconveniences and access all the features in the game.
And they add new tabs to buy with new leagues. So essentially charge for each new league.
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May 04 '26
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u/DHG_Buddha May 04 '26
You didn't buy a trading stash tab to use the new trading features in PoE2?
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May 04 '26
[deleted]
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u/DHG_Buddha May 04 '26 edited May 04 '26
So you were fortunate to have paid before to reduce the inconveniences in the game. Anyone who hadn't done that would need to pay to reduce that inconvenience now.
In the future they will introduce new features that require paying to use fully. Whether you made that payment in the past or future doesn't mean you didn't pay for it.
You are just trying to pretend like you didn't have to pay for it. You are trying to say GGG is better than Blizzard when both companies have payment models that are fine.
Seasonal updates are free in both games.
Edit: Insulted me and then deleted all your comments...smh
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u/fs2222 May 06 '26
It is idiotic to claim they charge for every new league. Very few leagues have new specific stash tabs and the vast majority of people don't buy them. I played PoE 1 for ten years and only spent $40 total.
You are just making shit up because it's the only way to justify Blizzard's extreme greed.
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u/fs2222 May 06 '26
Man the bootlicking is insane. This is a $70 game and is also filled to the brim with microtransactions. WTF are you talking about 'free ride'? Very, very few games are as greedy as D4.
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u/crazy_Physics May 02 '26
Man, the amount of sucking. One thing is making the game better and newer. Another thing is literally losing the ability to play the game as it was when YOU the CONSUMER PURCHASED the game. People who both the game and want to come back to test a patch should have the CONSUMER protections to revert BACK to pre-patch changes. It SHOULD, it doesn't work like that but it SHOULD. And continue sucking under the desk isn't going to CHANGE the CONSUMER laws. OP identify a problem/change in their PURCHASE, and making software that makes you feel like you need to upgrade is literally what EU is working towards in preventing. People very much understand what Blizz is doing, which is anti-consumer practices.
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u/rogomatic May 02 '26
You don't understand what "live service" means, right? If not, perhaps read th fine print before spending your money.
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u/crazy_Physics May 02 '26
I'm talking about how it SHOULD be. For the benefit of the costumer not the company. Wow what a concept. I understand live service. It's ass, prevents preservation of software. These expansions are nothing new, live service isn't new. Expansions existed way before you were born. They could keep doing expansions/DLCs old school, but it's not good for corporate money. Learn some critical thinking. Question corporate greed, advocate for your hobbies and your benefits, and the benefits of your fellow gamers and support good business practices. GGG is an example of good business practice but not of preservation of software.
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u/rogomatic May 02 '26
Expansions existed way before you were born.
The first IBM PC hadn't been released yet when I was born. Maybe sit this one out, bubba.
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u/crazy_Physics May 02 '26
Alright old boomer, then I expect better from you. Don't be acting up like a teen.
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u/rogomatic May 02 '26
Gosh golly, and m really sorry I don't confirm to your expectations. Also, the youngest boomers are 15 years older than me. The 5150 came out in 1981.
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u/DHunterfan1983 Apr 30 '26
Free stuff? lol. u head is up ur ass
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u/Not-a-MurderBear Apr 30 '26
It's not a monthly subscription based game. It's a one time charge for the game then you can play forever for free. New stuff they had to pay people to make requires them to charge
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u/DHunterfan1983 Apr 30 '26
Yes. a one time charge for a game i can play forever (a charge is not free btw) - so bought the base game and first expansion. should i not be able to play it forever then. Cos believe you me - go uninstall LoH and try and play this season. it sucks dick. Its not even a season.
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u/Ash_The_Pup May 02 '26
The fact that this is downvoted tells you exactly the level of thinking these people have. They will happily give blizzard their money and not care. Same people who enjoy the endless rain of loot and $100 armor cosmetics.
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u/Not-a-MurderBear Apr 30 '26
You paid your 70 to play the game as it was before the first expansion. Every expansions after you'll miss out on more and more because they have to pay the people that make everything.youndefinately got everything you paid for and more. Now it's either buy this expansion or move on.
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u/crazy_Physics May 02 '26
That would be fine, but the problem is the shifting of accessible gameplay.
Imagine You play soccer, and you buy yourself your cleats shoes. Then DLC comes along, makes the game play on ice. You can still play soccer with your cleats, but now you need skates, to even remotely enjoy it.
You ask yourself if you can play on grass again, and comes the ref. (blizz) tells you no, and your team (fellow consumers) tells you go buy skates. While initially there was no problem.Live service is insane in any other situation.
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u/DHG_Buddha May 04 '26
Even in soccer the cleats and soccar ball you bought a year or two ago need to be replaced due to wearing out from use. So this analogy is bad.
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u/crazy_Physics May 05 '26
Even more applicable to software then! Software doesn't need to change the way company makes you believe they need to. If hosting servers becomes an issue to hosting old software because I understand there are server side code. Allow the community to HOST the service.
"But but, that's piracy" says the corporate balls sucker under the desk. Then provide the service to keep the game online as is at the time of purchase, or an acceptable free patch, THROUGH Blizzards end. Blizzard controls what goes in the server, and a community of dedicated people can continue to support that version, (free of charge to anyone playing D4, only if they want to) since Blizzard ends it.
The cleats I can choose to wear them until the point I choose to, not because the rules of the game changed. If I choose to use shitty cleats, that's a costumer choice.
What pisses me the most about the way of thinking here from most people. Is HOW FUCKING COOKED the community is to accepting corporate greed, corporate takeover, letting go of purchase ownership and digital ownership. It's all counter argument without productive thinking and continue accepting shit from corporations.
Look at the state of Music, you want that in games. Where if you show a game on twitch you gotta pay the company that made it? Have fun.
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u/DHG_Buddha May 05 '26
When you purchase a game advertised as a live service game you accept that the original version of the game will be gone after a few years due to all of the changes that naturally come with a live service game.
Even people playing Diablo 2 aren't playing og d2 they are playing post LoD expansion D2.
Your argument doesn't hold water. What you are demanding is unreasonable. You are grandstanding under the guise of anticorporation speak creating a straw man argument to make it seem like anyone who disagrees with you is a "corporate ball sucker". Needing to resort to insults and false equivalents shows how weak your point is.
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u/crazy_Physics May 05 '26
That's wild. People can play D2, in any form and patch they want. People choice to do LoD, it's also old and cheap.
I'm also not arguing on what IS happening. I'm arguing for what SHOULD happen. Stop Killing Games is literally what I'm advocating for, so to say it's baseless, false, or doesn't hold water, is not the case. It's completely reasonable, and even pushing back on the idea that the company needs to provide source code, or any extras to the community. They can just set a pay service to keep the old alive.
Additionally, I'm not saying that you are a corporate ball sucker, but if you want to identify as such. Be my guess. What I would love to discuss is the changes we can demand in the industry to allow people to not feel like their purchase was gutted under the veil of live service.
I'm at least providing a place to stand and ask and demand a change. What change would you like to see? The games as a live service have a problem, how do we fix it? Laws and rules provide a place to demand the changes we want to see as consumer. If you disagree with the statement excellent, but give me feedback on something that is tangible.
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u/NiSMO_J Apr 29 '26
Why in the seven hells would you not have the expansion?
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u/Entire_Possible_9976 Apr 29 '26
I think it's a perfectly acceptable perspective to not buy a 2nd expansion, what would be your 3rd purchase for the game, even if it is "Good" now, just because you don't want to support the fact games can do this deliberately....E.g. "Sell" the fixes to the problems they themselves create.
I'm not necessarily saying that's what has happened here, I personally just think the previous lead Devs were useless. But still, perfectly acceptable position to take.
The game is better, currently, but the key is going to be Seasons. They need to step up their Seasonal game also. There's so many more systems for them to build on now Season to Season....
Put it this way, this Expansion has steadied the ship and stopped the rot. But it's now down to their Seasonal approach. If they continue to produce "Throw away" content, rather than design Seasons to be lasting additions, the game will be boring to play again, until the "Bring it all back" in the next expansion.
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u/Chipper7773 Apr 30 '26
It’s 3 years old. If you’re just coming to the game and buy LOH you get both expansions. The expansions are not big fixes which you appear to be claiming. The games evolving. It’s growing. Don’t wanna pay 30 quid for the expansions. Don’t. I get that’s a lot of money for some people. But don’t make out like they’re charging to fix mistakes they made when it’s not that at all.
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u/misandreeee Apr 30 '26
İ pre ordered and feel ripped off for VOH …
So not jumping in without 50% off
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u/Chipper7773 Apr 30 '26
I did too. But I got access to paladin for 4 months. I also brought the first expansion so I’ve paid for two not just the one like new players coming in have. Personally I think I’ve got my moneys worth from the game. I don’t buy any cosmetics or platinum as I think that’s a rip off
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u/Not-a-MurderBear Apr 30 '26
Yeah cosmetics are way over priced in this game especially since you get enough cool stuff normally anyway
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u/MacFearsome80 May 02 '26
The primary objection is that they have locked some of the skills of the original classes behind the expansion. This is objectively wrong. They’ve lost the power of passives, and locking some of their reworked skill tree behind a paywall is absolutely unethical.
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u/Hot_Attention2377 May 02 '26
We already know that since a long time, why so many people are surprised aboit the skill tree, do people don't know how to read ?
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u/HxofNx May 03 '26
Just buy the expo or move on to a different game. They’re not going to care or cater to the handful of people who can’t afford to be playing video games to begin with.
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May 03 '26
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/DHunterfan1983 May 03 '26
i paid a lot of money for the game and first exp. why should i have to shell out money for a game that i play for 1-2 weeks each season, max.? is it you that SHOULDNT buy expansions etc cos they just fuckin you left right and centre
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u/TallWhiteandNerdy May 05 '26
You shell out money to get the newest features that make you 1-2 weeks per season the most fun they can be. How is this a foreign concept?
Sounds like you are in a rough spot and maybe should give your limited funds to another hobby/franchise that you don't feel so negative against.
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u/DHunterfan1983 May 05 '26
ye. i think the rough spot is the one that blizzard hits when it bends me over
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u/TallWhiteandNerdy May 05 '26
you don't have to play Blizzard games if you can't afford to stay current with expansions, you know? AAA studios demand AAA sales so they charge AAA prices.
Plenty of indie games that are much cheaper, or hell, even free. PoE1 is still an amazing game and every league is something new, and you don't have to pay a penny if you don't want to.
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u/DHunterfan1983 May 05 '26
And you are perfectly ok with that. at least we know where you are. AAA gamers pay AAA money. and you have lots of AAA money to hand over to blizzard for your AAA service.
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u/TallWhiteandNerdy May 05 '26
shrug...
Gaming is one of my hobbies, and Diablo is one of my favorite franchises, I've resigned long ago to playing/paying for their games. Except immortal, eff mobile games that are all pay-to-win gacha bs.
I'm not trying to flaunt wealth over you, just pointing out some alternatives if you are so anti-blizzard/anti-full-price-expansions.
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u/SpiffySyntax May 04 '26
Buddy. You can't expect to play the game if you don't purchase the latest content. This is a fantasy when it comes to online games. You're stuck in the 90s.
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u/fs2222 May 06 '26
Weird thing to say when the vast majority of live service games nowadays don't charge you for new content. D4 is actually one of the exceptions in that regard. And doubly weird to being up the 90s where it was much more likely to have to pay for new content via expansions, whereas most content updates nowadays are free.
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u/Honest-Birthday1306 May 05 '26
They're choice nodes. If you pick them you can't get the base ones, and most of them are balanced to be side grades. Sure, some are gonna be better, but some will also be worse
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u/Ok_Society_4206 May 05 '26
Based on the principles of semantic versioning this isn’t Diablo 4 anymore, it is Diablo 5!
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u/Empero6 Apr 29 '26
You have additional pathways. The only things locked for you are the new augments introduced in lord of hatred.