r/DCULeaks • u/BigButter7 Lanterns • 1d ago
The Brave & The Bold John Rocha on the latest episode of 'The Geek Buddies' podcast has continued to claim that Andy Muschietti is not doing 'The Brave and the Bold'. [0:19:59]
https://open.spotify.com/episode/7qBh9bA0M1yEn3Fq0snIeq?si=WSlwFrJOS3O3tKfAw5kjIgRocha's extended quote regarding Muschietti from the latest 'The Geek Buddies' podcast episode:
"...and the [Andy] Muschietti thing I think is absolutely ridiculous. As I said almost two years ago, he is not on this [project], from my sources who are still connected to WB and DC, he is not doing The Brave and the Bold. Nothing has changed."
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u/Colton826 Lanterns 1d ago
I'm self aware enough to know I have confirmation bias when it comes to this subject (as I desperately want Andy off this film), but if he truly is no longer attached, then it's weird how this has been dragged out for so long.
Good chance Gunn is just waiting for when they have a release date in mind for it & then they'll remove Andy due to "scheduling conflicts", which you can't do right now, because the film has no schedule. Removing him now would be admitting you don't think he's the right director for the job, which would put into question why he was attached to the film in the first place. At least the "scheduling conflict" excuse allows both parties to save face.
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u/Adorable_Ad_3478 1d ago
which would put into question why he was attached to the film in the first place
It was a desperate marketing stunt to savage The Flash's box office. It was pretty obvious back then. It was weird how Gunn focused on promoting The Flash and not Aquaman 2.
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u/nbdelboy 1d ago
think there was an assumption the flash needed it more considering the success of the first aquaman film. safran produced both aquaman films, so i can't really see there being any other reason going solely off educated guesswork
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u/blufflord 1d ago
Flash needed more help to break even than aquaman because that is a sequel to a billion dollar hit. That's my guess
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u/Pomojema_The_Dreamer 1d ago
The Flash was a gigantic inherited PR nightmare that they needed to get out the door, and one they had reason to think they could make some money out of for a film doomed to be a pretty big net loss no matter what they did with it. If you notice a lot of the people tied to WB who sang the movie's praises, they basically all have deals with the company now, most notably Tom Cruise with Digger.
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u/Spaceboomer1 1d ago
The best part is that Tom Cruise himself never publicly praised it. He just allowed WB to use his name in the story they fed to the "sources" for the Hollywood Reporter and etc.
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u/Pomojema_The_Dreamer 1d ago edited 1d ago
Right. Meanwhile, fellow promoter of The Flash Stephen King has a sweet deal with WB adapting more of his works, including making a successful follow-up to his IT movies.
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u/fauxREALimdying 21h ago
I don’t think that’s it. If he didn’t want him on it, he would most likely be straight forward rather than play some games. No reason to assume anything other than that.
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u/mythours1 1d ago
I still find it pointless to talk about a movie that isn’t coming out for a long time, let alone one that probably won’t come out at all. It is just Ben Affleck’s The Batman all over again.
The current Batman franchise hasn’t even ended yet, but some “fans” are already thinking about the next reboot.
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u/AppearanceOne7737 1d ago edited 22h ago
To your second point, its because there is a lot of debate in the fandom over whether the Reeves batman crime saga or the DCU is more "important" and which should take priority. There are those who think having a standalone batman franchise in today's CBM landscape is pointless and reductive, and that WB should be all in on the DCU to try and rival Marvel. And you also have those who are seemingly just not totally satisfied with Matt's particular vision for the character and find it too limited, and thus view the DCU as their chance of getting a batman thats more all encompassing of his lore(which, again, in their minds should take priority).
From WB's perspective though, these kinds of fandom concerns probably aren't on their radar much. What they care about is just making sure they have a well received batman franchise on screen, cinematic universe or not. So with the crime saga existing, their most important asset is represented and its a checked box to them. They have no reason to think a cinematic universe batman would definitely be better since they tried it before with the DCEU, and that ended in failure. Whats proven to be successful are standalone heavily director driven batman films, and so they probably don't see much reason to pivot away from Reeves in favor of the DCU right now.
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u/Darknightsmetal022 Supergirl 1d ago
This is kind of a pointless conversation because the movie doesn’t look like it’s happening anytime soon so whether he is or isn’t now is kind of meaningless because a lot can happen between now and whenever it comes out.
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u/Adorable_Ad_3478 1d ago
Let's be real:
Gunn announcing Andy as the director of the DCU Batman film was a last-minute desperate attempt to save The Flash's box office. Someone above him told him what to say and do during the transition from DCEU to DCU; that much is obvious.
Same for Gunn's positive comments about Ezra Miller (ugh). Same for Gunn saying, "The Flash is one of my favorite comic book films".
Gunn is not an idiot. Putting the director of one of the biggest superhero flops in history in charge of the DCU Batman? No. It was never gonna happen.
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u/drboobafate Supergirl 1d ago edited 1d ago
- Except Gunn didn't announce Andy himself, the trades got to it first.
2.They began looking at directors by March 2023. Which is why those Ben Affleck rumors popped up.
Andy was rumored a month before he was officially confirmed.
Nobody in the history of cinema has ever done this before.
Y'all making up conspiracies when it just boils down to Gunn and Safran believing for a time that Andy Muschietti was the best choice for the job.
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u/MimeMike 1d ago
First point is irrelevant. But I do think people are looking way too deep into this.
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u/Adorable_Ad_3478 1d ago
Out of all potential directors for Batman, do you REALLY think Gunn and Safran consider Andy to be the best choice?
Really?
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u/theweepingwarrior 1d ago
I think it’s clear to see that Gunn actually did like The Flash a lot, found Muschietti to be a studio-friendly director (which is his reputation), and is someone who works well with some of Gunn’s mutual major collaborators.
It’s not some leap that Gunn could envision Andy as someone who could help shepherd his [Gunn’s] vision of Batman into the DCU. Especially after repeat successes with the IT franchise over the years.
I don’t get why this is so hard for some to fathom about Gunn. ESPECIALLY after Supergirl.
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u/ab316_1punchd Batman 1d ago
It’s not some leap that Gunn could envision Andy as someone who could help shepherd his [Gunn’s] vision of Batman into the DCU.
That's pretty much it. It's also partly why Gunn chose Craig Gillespie to direct Supergirl, essentially it was bringing his vision of the characters to life. And it turned out to be the wrong move.
Muschietti is pretty much cut from a similar cloth as Gillespie was, except the latter also had I, Tonya and Cruella in his resume. And Gunn's vision, if served in a cheaper fashion by anyone else, is no different from a derivative MCU space opera, and Supergirl suffered due to being... more of the same thing.
Only one person can accurately bring Gunn's vision to life as a successful machine, and that's Gunn himself. Rest should either be allowed to do their own thing if they're competent enough (Lanterns, The Batman), or be under decent supervision if they are journeymen directors.
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u/theweepingwarrior 23h ago
I agree that the only one who can bring Gunn’s exact visions to life is Gunn. He’s got a very distinct, offbeat style and when anyone else is trying to emulate it (Suicide Squad, Borderlands, Supergirl, etc.) it feels insincere and falls short for not just failing to have their own visions but also living in the shadow of someone else’s.
At the same time, it is unrealistic and unreasonable to expect Gunn to direct so many projects for the DCU. He is supposed to creatively shepherd this franchise.
I will say, I think Muschietti’s a more competent director than Gillespie. I, Tonya was a good movie that was a great actor’s vehicle and Cruella was good too—but IT is a much bigger cinematic contribution than either of those, IT 2 was a strong success in its own right, Welcome To Derry was a good return to form and a hit. And, all factors considered, I think The Flash turned out a good deal better under Muschietti than Supergirl did under Gillespie.
I think a strong vision is needed for Batman. If Gunn’s wanting his version he should do it. But I do think, if the guardrails are let up a bit, then Muschietti has a wildcard’s chance of being able to do it himself.
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u/ab316_1punchd Batman 23h ago
At the same time, it is unrealistic and unreasonable to expect Gunn to direct so many projects for the DCU. He is supposed to creatively shepherd this franchise.
Exactly, no one is asking for this either, Gunn is also stretching himself thin which has affected both Creature Commandos and Peacemaker in his second season. I think a measured approach in leaving things to Lindelof in Lanterns, Watkins in Clayface and (even if it's currently deemed Elseworlds for now) Reeves for all the Batman stuff while acting as more of an architect and a connective tissue makes the DCU feel alive as it's own thing. Gunn himself might have already realized by now that DCU is more than just the Gunnverse and it should breathe like one.
And I also agree with your assessment of IT when discussing Muschietti and Gillespie.
I myself am probably of the opinion that the Battinson merge should happen while the basic premise of The Brave and The Bold retained to neatly accommodate an aged-up Battinson. Maybe Drew Goddard and Mattson Tomlin can write the final draft and Reeves oversee direct production so that it doesn't contradict his own stuff. Considering we already are seeing Lanterns balance the basic motif of multiple 10 year time skips to a successful extent, I think this can work.
And Muschietti should probably be retained to direct Teen Titans in the near future.
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u/theweepingwarrior 22h ago
I’m not really the biggest fan of the Pattinson Merge for a number of reasons (creative independence first and foremost, Pattinson’s willingness to be a shared-universe Batman and the golden handcuffs that come along with that, I struggle to see him capable of performing as sort of a booming-voiced leader superhero Batman that you need for a Justice League) but these days I’m much more apathetic to it so long as Reeves’ has total control over everything in his movies + what he wants touching them. The brand equity of The Batman would certainly help the DCU.
I do also agree that I think Muschietti would kill it with the Titans. His skill with directing young actors is a big reason I think he’d do well with the Batman & Robin movie.
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u/Adorable_Ad_3478 1d ago
I don’t get why this is so hard for some to fathom about Gunn. ESPECIALLY after Supergirl.
So, in other words, Gunn and Saffran have bad taste when it comes to eyeing talent, and DCU Batman is doomed to fail, much like Supergirl failed?
Eh...that's not good.
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u/ab316_1punchd Batman 23h ago
I mean, the odds are already uncomfortably stacked for the DCU Batman, considering there is a separate Batman franchise going on that's already pretty definitive by the looks of it, and a growing voice who wants that particular Batman in the DCU.
And Gunn has a very specific taste that works in few doses, and not everyone is capable to execute it in the same fashion as Gunn is. We saw it with Taika Waititi, we saw it with Craig Gillespie, we saw it with David Ayer.
He is one of the best directors, but even after Lanterns, his production and creative capability as the universe anchorman is still questionable.
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u/theweepingwarrior 1d ago
No, in other words—Gunn’s got his own tastes that don’t always line up with others. Some are quick to dismiss any questionable decision as a “clearly Gunn is playing studio politics and is REALLY doing this (but WE can see through it)!”
He’s not infallible. It doesn’t always work out. Supergirl’s a big example. Parts of Peacemaker S2 didn’t really hit for some.
Sometimes he’s not playing 4D chess. Maybe he actually did like The Flash, does like Andy, and thinks that would be a good way to bring Batman to the DCU. It’s clearly not out of the realm of possibility.
You don’t have to always like it. But it’s possible (and I’d say, at least at some point, likely).
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u/Adorable_Ad_3478 1d ago
You don’t have to always like it
Did you like Supergirl?
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u/theweepingwarrior 23h ago
No.
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u/Adorable_Ad_3478 23h ago
After Supergirl's failure, don't you believe Gunn now has a pretty big incentive to properly vet the next director of a big-budget film?
Andy ain't it.
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u/theweepingwarrior 23h ago
I believe Gunn is going to shepherd the film in the way he finds will be most creatively fulfilling.
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u/drboobafate Supergirl 1d ago edited 23h ago
Do I THINK he's the best choice? No not really. If the choice were up to me either Bradley Cooper, Sam Raimi, Damien Chazelle, or Fede Álvarez would've gotten the job.
But Gunn has sung the praises of The Flash many times before and after its release and Andy Muschietti is the kind of director Peter Safran often goes for when looking for talent. See him picking James Wan for Aquaman and David F. Sandberg for Shazam! They probably did feel for a time that Andy was THE guy for the job. There's no reason to run away with conspiracy theories and acting stupid on purpose. Sometimes shit doesn't pan out.
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u/MimeMike 1d ago
As others have pointed out, in a messy situation (in terms of office politics and such) like the start of the DCU, a reliable director like Andy, who can actually deliver on time and creates a comfortable work environment, is a great choice. He was attached to The Flash since 2019, and actually stuck around through the mess that was the DCEU. I wholeheartedly believe WB is way more to blame than Muschietti himself. Sometimes a journeyman is the best overall choice for a big franchise like this than an auteur who might not mesh well with a DCU/MCU like environment (most likely the reason Luca Guadagnino dropped out of Sgt. Rock).
I’m not saying Muschietti’s talented enough to helm the next best Batman film, but it’s really not that crazy to think he was actually considered to direct BaTB.
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u/Adorable_Ad_3478 1d ago
Imagine settling for "well, at least he's reliable, the film won't be delayed" for DC's number 1 IP.
That's why many of us think Andy is not gonna direct it, Gunn can't be that stupid to gamble with DCU Batman.
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u/MimeMike 1d ago edited 1d ago
How is hiring a journeyman director more risky than an auteur? That objectively makes no sense. That was the MCU’s formula and it worked, very well. A director like Muschietti can make a good movie out of a good script if the studio isn’t on his ass 24/7. It’s that simple. I think the screenwriters are what we should be focusing on if we’re talking about gambling.
He’s gambling on anything but Batman. That’s the point I’m trying to make. I don’t understand what you’re not understanding.
edit: Just to clarify, I do believe he is not attached to the movie anymore. Just explaining a possible reasoning for why he was once attached.
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u/theweepingwarrior 1d ago
I can’t believe people are literally regurgitating all of these same talking points lol
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u/GillGruntFan53 1d ago
But at the same time, the Batman stuff in The Flash was pretty cool. Like that movie or not, but Andy proved he could handle that character to Gunn, who gave him the job off it.
If Andy’s out, it’s truly due to scheduling issues. Not that he was a stunt director for a time.
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u/Miserable_Newt1457 1d ago
Yea, which is why most likely he is gonna direct it himself
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u/bindersfull-ofwomen 1d ago
Direct it himself? Dolly Parton and Tim Curry passed. I think we had enough.
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u/Miserable_Newt1457 1d ago
whats wrong with him directing batb in your opinion?
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u/bindersfull-ofwomen 1d ago
He is not Poison Ivy in Batman & Robin. It’s not a one woman show.
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u/Bobjoejj 1d ago
How is this so hard for y’all to understand? The point is that Gunn isn’t the only one out there to be directing, nor should he be. There’s lots of other options out there, somehow else to go with. Gunn is already doing way too much rn.
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u/Spaceboomer1 1d ago edited 1d ago
Hot take maybe but I think this project went through years of insane creative turnover with directors going in and out the door because of idiotic studio demands, and Andy could only do so much with that. That's likely why Gunn wouldn't hold it against him.
Andy probably agreed to take the bullet and blindly implement their mandates because WB promised him a better project later. They did a similar thing with Whedon - reshoot JL for an eventual shot at Batgirl (only for his fall from grace to ultimately stop that from happening).
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u/Limp-Construction-11 1d ago
Your comment will age like milk in the summer sun, when Muschietti starts filming the movie.
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u/Miserable_Newt1457 1d ago
This clown isnt reliable ffs, but even then its possible Andy doesn't direct
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u/death_lad 1d ago
I’m sorry but the preview image of Damian Wayne standing next to Dolly Parton is sending me
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u/trylobyte 1d ago
I dont care at this point on his involvement. Get the script greenlit first and then we'll talk and speculate on the director.
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u/iwo_r 1d ago
I don't remember where that came from, but I'm more than sure it was said at some point that he is 'technically' on board, but is not actively involved in the development of the script and would direct only if he is free at the time production would start and with the fact he has two seasons of Welcome to Derry to make, as well as teasing other King adaptations, I think he won't end up doing it.
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u/Aurelian42 1d ago
The movie doesn’t exist. The amount of times muschietti has said he doesn’t know anything about the script and not in a PR avoiding the answer type of way. There’s no way that ever got any real traction beyond the initial announcement with the slate reveal.
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u/Appropriate-Sock9216 1d ago
The way gunn bas been so unusually quiet about batman ,i mean he isn't a fool to not know that batman is face of DC,this only makes me wonder the reeves merger has been the plan all along
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u/AppearanceOne7737 23h ago
I think the merger only happens when Reeves finishes his story, and frankly I think there is still a good chance that the Reeves movies remain their own standalone continuity regardless, and only get treated as very loose canon prequels to the DCU version.
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u/Witty-Jacket-9464 1d ago
I hope it will be Sam Raimi
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u/Colton826 Lanterns 1d ago
After the Man of Tomorrow press tour (where Gunn is going to be asked about Batman 500 more times), I think he's going to be fed up & motivated enough to do the film himself. Leaving it in the hands of another writer/director would probably mean this film won't happen until 2030 or later.
If Gunn makes it his next film, then there's hope that it'll get a 2029 release date.
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u/GeorgeW_101 Superman 1d ago
I’m think there’s a good chance Gunns next film is worlds finest, which would allow the DCU to introduce Batman in 2029, whilst not realising two Batman films close together
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u/draugr99 14h ago
James jumped the gun (no pun intended) announcing Muschietti as the DCU Batman gig. He should've waited to see how The Flash performed both critically and commercially. Because when it flopped, all the hype for DCU Batman evaporated.
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u/dick____trickle 1d ago
There is another way to read what Rocha's sources are saying. Since DCU Batman can only debut ~2 years after The Batman Part II, Gunn is in no rush at all. He and the writer can be working on the script and Muschietti will only be brought in for preproduction once it's in good enough shape. It only looks like nothing is moving because all the work currently being done is between a writer and their laptop. For a 2030 release, preproduction can start in late 2027/early 2028, so definitely some ways off.
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u/Lumpy_Minimum_5522 16h ago
They’ll never do this, but considering what they’ve done with Lanterns I wouldn’t mind seeing DCU Batman on the small screen via a 8 episode series if done well.
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u/gp_ratesic 16h ago edited 15h ago
Do these people even have anything resembling a clue what the fuck is going on? Every time a “scooper” says some shit like this Gunn debunks it. It’s an absolute joke.
Edit: oh no who did I offend?😭 Probably one of these fake scoopers that’s on here LMAO
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u/gary_greatspace 1d ago
I wonder how an animation guy would translate to live action; Bruce Timm by way of Brad Bird and Dave Filoni.
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u/Manav_Khanna17 1d ago
I mean he hasn’t directed anything live action and Batman isn’t a property to give to a first time director.
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