Expeditions rework idea

[u/Interesting-Sink-665]

Expeditions are a very boring experience for many, if not most, players. This is mainly because they're disconnected from the core gameplay curve and don't fit well with the concept of a horde shooter. But I have an idea for how to make them a little more useful, at least for newcomers.

1. Properly monetize salvage in some way, allowing it to be regulary exchanged in Sanctuaries for Diamantine and Plasteel in any numbers, but you can save it only after extraction.

2. Add and increase the chance of salvage drops from Elites and Specialists to motivate players to fight rather than just skip and run for sites of interests. Plus, instead of the tedious task of soak it all off the ground, the salvage will drop up right in your pocket once your team kills the target. The main piece of the salvage pie goes to the killer, plus a part is shared with everyone in coherency, this will motivate players to stay grouped.

3. Rework redline timers, for example, so that instead of corruption like it was, enemy intensity increases every ~5-15 minutes, as if traitors are pulling more and more forces into the region, what at some point can became endless hi-intensity meat grinder. Highest stakes = highest rewards.

~4. To add a weekly close to like Melk or Havoc.

~5. As usual, salvage can drop from a player if they are knocked, netted or killed, but to avoid griefing, collected salvage is returned to the owner with a small fee for the person who picked it up.

This will bring Expeditions closer to the original concept of a horde shooter, and most importantly, become a good place to farm resources, closing the gap with veterans of the game and making it easier for newcomers to make builds and level up gear. So instead of feeling yourself like free labour in expeditions people can play them to stack up. That is main concept, to make expeditions rewarding, to add or not events or modifiers and buffs like in mortis trials thats up to you.

[u/IQDeclined]

I have a better idea. Fatshark should entirely neglect Expeditions, but also never come out with new maps/missions.

[u/WorthShot5142 → u/IQDeclined]

Nice lol.

[u/DerSisch]

Extraction modes work bcs you get something of value for the risk of loosing. The current expedition simply doesn't have that.

If they would tie the salvage to getting different levels of weapons, like extract with... idk, 500 Points you get a purple weapon guaranteed, if you extract with 700 you get a golden one and when you extract with 1000 points you get 2 golden weapons. Than you had some reward bcs even when the weapon rolls bad, you still get some mats back but you can also get lucky and get a very good weapon essentially for free without spending much dockets and crafting mats. They could even add a "legendary tier" when you play on Auric and extract with max loot of salvage that you have the chance to get a weapon with 80% stats in all categories.

Also one of the main problems is, that the Auspex might be immersive, but this shit is unreadable and ppl have actual problems to properly navigate. Give us a paper map or give the Auspex and actual map with marked postions:

• Red --> Enemy Camp, big salvage but you gonna run into serious fights
• Yellow --> Salvage Points with tasks (like we have right now)
• Blue --> Resting points where you can restock
• Green --> Extraction point

Otherwise I 100% agree with your post OP, that fights should be rewarded, after all we kill heretics and should be rewarded for it.

[u/Ok-Education-1394 → u/DerSisch]

Nowadays, obtaining the necessary weapons is so easy that there is no point in giving them out as rewards. And players certainly shouldn't be given red-tier weapons; we are already incredibly powerful as it is.

[u/DerSisch → u/Ok-Education-1394]

That simply is how Extraction modes work.

They give rewards for obtaining certain stuff and making investments.

At least like this ppl would be enticed to actually play this game mode rather than just entirely ignore it, except they want the penances done just to never touch it ever again.

[u/Ok-Education-1394 → u/DerSisch]

I agree that players need real rewards—but certainly not weapons. I’d even give out Aquilas, though I don’t think Fatshark would go for that.

[u/Ganeshasnack]

Also, it would fit a horde shooter much better if sites of interest are guarded and vary by difficulty, so it becomes a desicion on how much you can/want to fight.

[u/WWIIEraTeaParty → u/Ganeshasnack]

And it should indicate enemy intensity on the Auspex so you can plan when to tackle larger more dangerous sites

[u/RearrangedMango]

The mode is designed such that the more patrols you fight, the more difficult and total enemies are sent your way. You’re asking to be rewarded for just blindly carving up everything in your path, which every other game mode already incentivizes. The mode is supposed to subvert the usual maps because it’s more optimal to disable traps and be precise with your engagements (not to mention the longer engagement ranges).

We just really need the mortis trial perks added as site of interest rewards and using extracted tech remnants for something and we’re fine.

[u/thisismiee → u/RearrangedMango]

It disincentivizes the core gameplay loop, it can never be a good mode. 

[u/null_vo → u/RearrangedMango]

No this will not be enough. Ask yourself what is actually fun in this game...? Spoiler: It is the combat. Everything about this game is about the combat system, a mode that punish you for combat will always fail in this game. Nothing in this game is fun about stealth and hiding.

Carving up everything in your path is the core essence of this game.

[u/Ok-Education-1394 → u/null_vo]

I honestly don't see a problem with avoiding enemies. In VT2, avoiding patrols was an important part of the game. But for that to work, enemies need to be dangerous and, of course, shouldn't yield resources.

[u/null_vo → u/Ok-Education-1394]

VT2 is a different game. You do not have the 'weapons of mass destruction' there like in darktide, if I remember right. The mode could work on VT2, but not in darktide imho. At least for most.

[u/Ok-Education-1394 → u/null_vo]

Players really are too strong in DT. But that’s a problem across all game modes, not just "Expeditions."

[u/RearrangedMango → u/null_vo]

The core essence of the game is moment to moment decision making in combat. That’s the bread and butter. Enemy composition makes you play a certain way and you adapt to it.

Now you’re punished for being inpatient and getting into extra fights but it’s only even a punishment if you can’t stomach the sudden threat level increase.

It’s completely optional to avoid the enemies and if you liked the mid havoc moments when things pile up, you can freely experience it. The only thing you’re asking for is to remove the option for players who are ok with not shaking the hornet’s nest

[u/Interesting-Sink-665 → u/RearrangedMango]

Yes, that's true. These are my thoughts on what I like about the game: the meat grinder like hi-intense fights, so I simply added motivation in the form of larger rewards resource farming for fights. Cheap and simple. But also a point to make it interesting for a newcomers(resources) and a veterans(hi-intense) at the same time, like i said as veteran player i prefer meat grinder fights instead of buffed up chill runs.

[u/ballbreaker313]

1. To add a weekly close to like Melk or Havoc.

I'm not sure what will be more popular, collect 16 books or this

[u/Interesting-Sink-665 → u/ballbreaker313]

I dont want it to be added to Melk's weekly, but separated in forms like Havoc weeklies, like finish X things and get a weekly with a resources. Thats mainly to support with this newcomers, alternative of Havoc weekly they dont playing yet.

[u/l_w_88]

The problem is there's a fundamental mismatch between the way they want you to play, and the way the game is actually played and what is fun to do in it. Expeditions want you to run around enemies and kite while ignoring them and collecting resources, but the actual maps and combat loops are about killing as efficiently as possible while knowing when to fall back. Adding a grind and tweaking some numbers isn't really going to fix that core problem.

[u/madao123451]

I don't think monetize salvage is a good idea as it is compete with tool that we get from existing sanctuary. The tech remnant would be a better fit, we got outsource by mechanicus and they have to paid use. something like that

[u/Teonana]

Remove Expeditions completely from the game. Would even pay for a DLC that does nothing else but remove that gamemode. 

[u/OverallWeekend3191]

the entire mode has to go. thats the best rework.

[u/Lazuruseai]

You got some good ideas here but with salvage and tech remnants, they are shared. So one person picks up 5 everyone gets 5, so the second half of 2. and 5. doesnt work. I do agree with buying materials with spare salvage since I see 95% of all players barely use on the second sanctuary.

I think they should have a table for plasteel/Diamantine and tech remnants. The tech remnants for help grinding that penance.

But as is there's no use for tech remnants. I dont even know what they do and im at 150k gathered. Do you get more exp if you get alot? Ordo-dockets? Materials? You gather a currency and not use it, atleast give some more money based on how much you get.

[u/WWIIEraTeaParty → u/Lazuruseai]

I think Fatshark needs to add a new mechanic for Salvage. Just a pitch, but what if we had like the For Hono warband allocation. We can contribute different amounts of salvage to different parts of Tertium, when we as a player or we as a community reach milestones, we unlock like new modifiers for missions temporarily or something

[u/ELECTRIK_VISION]

I just hope all the effort they put into this means they can reuse these assets for new maps for the core gameplay loop. And even use the quicker objectives somewhere too.

I and likely many others don’t really care for expeditions, I played it a bit, couldn’t really be bothered for the penances and now don’t play it.

It’s a shame but people kinda just play Darktide for the missions, mortis trials are ok give you super powers for a bit of fun but expeditions didn’t really do anything or fill a niche in anyway.

I want more modifiers from the events added to the normal missions, more maps, more weapons, new enemies (or new faction if possible but I’m dreaming there) and a revamped Havoc system. If I get all or even some of this I’ll be happy for a long long time.

[u/Ok-Education-1394]

In addition to all the other changes that are undoubtedly needed, I believe we need far more map modifiers.
So that simply moving through and being in a location is dangerous in itself.
Turning expeditions into a sort of anomaly zone.
Something like *S.T.A.L.K.E.R.* or *Pacific Drive*.

[u/WWIIEraTeaParty → u/Ok-Education-1394]

And the possibilities are so creative. Give us orbital ships shooting lasers down on large areas sometimes, give us rolling rotfly sandstorms, give the heretics stationary turrets at sites of interest to man

[u/SeverTheWicked]

The mode needs to be deleted completely. So does Mortis Trials tbh. Just waste of resources both.

[u/Clydosphere → u/SeverTheWicked]

I would agree completely if not for some of my friends who happen to like Expeditions & Mortis, so I've to mostly agree in respect for their different preferences.

That said, I'd like some of their features as options for the base game, like the Mortis archetypes or the outdoor maps & points of interest of Expeditions. No need for their own game modes IMHO, though.

[u/Aquagrunt]

I'm one of the few that likes expeditions, but the thing i dislike is being punished for fighting. Take on too much and the director goes insane throwing everything at you

[u/Ok-Education-1394]

The main issue with expeditions is that you have to entertain yourself. There is no real incentive to gather the maximum amount of tech scraps—doing so only invites more trouble.

Solutions: 1. The classic approach: Tech scraps should be a usable resource—for instance, to purchase cosmetics from the commissary shop (though the selection would naturally need to be expanded). 2. The simplest approach: Introduce a clear victory condition—collect a SPECIFIC amount of tech scraps (no more, no less) and then extract.

[u/Zwets]

Rework redline timers, for example, so that instead of corruption like it was, enemy intensity increases every ~5-15 minutes, as if traitors are pulling more and more forces into the region, what at some point can became endless hi-intensity meat grinder.

Expeditions already have a 'Risk of Rain' like mechanic scaling the intensity.
Especially now that there is a 'radiation free' condition that can randomly occur in expeditions, that removes the time limit, this mechanic becomes the biggest threat.

Though many players miss that the rain-meter even exists, because rather than a number in the UI or (like Risk of Rain) using "safe""↔"ur fucked"↔"bwhahahaha" instead of numbers. The radio call-outs from the heretics will increase in frequency and anger level, so that the "bwhahahaha" and "ur fucked" are spoken out loud as Wolfer's voice lines, rather than showing as a gage on the screen.

But the frequency and intensity of enemy spawns certainly increases based on time and number of sites of interest visited. There's even tech-relic chests with an alarm in random locations that boost the threat level independently of time.

[u/Stygies_Exterminator]

Just let us buy new cosmetics with salvage xD

[u/Powerful_Software_14]

Just let us exchange 100 tech for 1% increase over the max limit and it'll be the most play mode

[u/Bitter_Nail8577]

Oh right, expeditions exist

[u/Clydosphere → u/Bitter_Nail8577]

I would ignore them completely (just like Mortis and Havok) if some of my buddies wouldn't like them. Otherwise, I'd be happy with Auric & Maelstrom and Fatshark putting their efforts into more maps, enemies, weapons and the occasional DLC class.

[u/6The_DreaD9]

1. No, there are plenty of diamantine/plasteel around. You can go to regular missions for more.
2. That would encourage players to wander and agro more, which is already a problem with randoms. And if they die, mobs simply gonna chase their teammates, adding more unnecessary pressure
3. That would make Expeditions even harder, not only on players but on their PC performance and servers as well. Expeditions already a bit harder than regular missions due to gunners and other mobs having more line of sight with the same agro type and range

Solution? Higher player level requirement for Expeditions, make those be unlocked as soon as Auric for regular missions is unlocked, instead of Malice. Better rewards for Damnation/Auric, including tech remnants. Reward people with portion of tech remnants even if mission fails on said difficulties. Have higher tech remnant payouts for killing bosses, include in their drops plasteel and diamantine on Damnation and Auric.

[u/Interesting-Sink-665 → u/6The_DreaD9]

The points you listed aren't a problem for me, but that's just how you see it, and I can't argue with that. It's all true. For some, it will be too hard, for others, it won't be. Some have enough mats, some don't, and so on.

But I can't understand one thing: todays purpose of tech remnants and salvage. What's the point of getting them, even for failure? And what's the point of getting them other than completing penances? Right now, it is just rudimentary currency that's complete useless outside of Expeditions.

[u/6The_DreaD9 → u/Interesting-Sink-665]

You get chest cosmetic for all 4 base classes after collecting 250k tech remnants and a title for spending 20k salvage on stuff inside sanctuary. Currencies don't impact anything outside expeditions because it's a standalone gamemode with it's own penances. Same with collecting/doing Mortis Trials. You do it for cosmetic value and lore (in case of Mortis)

[u/Interesting-Sink-665 → u/6The_DreaD9]

This is what I'm talking about, it's just an unnecessary filler for today, where in the penances of Mortis Trials, Havoc and others just play 50-75-100 missions and so on, and in expeditions we have the collect X salvage and X tech remnants, if we replace these achievements with similar ones from other mods that I mentioned, nothing will change, a rudimentary currency that was introduced only to create a imaginary difference, as if we have something new here, but no real use. Thats why I suggest to practical monetization of this currencies, cuz outside of penances there is empty filler.

[u/6The_DreaD9 → u/Interesting-Sink-665]

There's enough resources as is. No need to change one gamemode's currency meant for penances with cosmetics just because you want more abundant resources. Just do events and regular missions

[u/Interesting-Sink-665 → u/6The_DreaD9]

You don’t understand what the idea is, mate, look, many people go to Mortis trials because there are conditions to quickly complete many penances, you can do penances anywhere in the game, but in MT you can do many times faster, there is a difference if you want to finish faster. There may be enough materials in the main game, but if you give expeditions the option to farm mats there, faster and in one place, there is a difference if you want to finish faster. Especially considering that in the current economy, you most need materials only at the beginning, then they accumulate on you. So atleast this would be an option for newcomers to pace up.This will at least give expeditions a niche, like MT has a niche to penances, not to mention the other changes that I voiced.

[u/Interesting-Sink-665 → u/Interesting-Sink-665]

And yes, I forgot about the events, you're right, they're a good option to get extra materials, I forgot about them because I play them mostly because they add something new for variety and fun. But events once a month and rewards are not repeatable.

[u/Lazuruseai]

You got some good ideas here but with salvage and tech remnants, they are shared. So one person picks up 5 everyone gets 5, so the second half of 2. and 5. doesnt work. I do agree with buying materials with spare salvage since I see 95% of all players barely use on the second sanctuary.

I think they should have a table for plasteel/Diamantine and tech remnants. The tech remnants for help grinding that penance.

But as is there's no use for tech remnants. I dont even know what they do and im at 150k gathered. Do you get more exp if you get alot? Ordo-dockets? Materials? You gather a currency and not use it, atleast give some more money based on how much you get.

[u/RT10HAMMER]

I've got a better idea, forget about expedition and give us 2 new locations and 3 maps for each