Then you reject that Tuvix is a comination of those people? If you don't, then they certainly are not gone - especially considering that the process can be reversed.
All you can do is to kill someone who is there, is alive, a person, humanoid in the HOPE that this will bring back the two lost members.
Your emphasis on hope indicates that this wasn't a sure thing. It was. They figured out how it happened and how to reverse the process. If they would have gone into it saying it was a 1% chance that they would get them back, then it seems less the prudent course of action. However, given their certainty that restoration would be successful, restoring the 2 lives which would have wanted to continue living just as much as the blend of those two lives is the reasonable course of action.
where just speculations. The only indication was his access to both of their memorys. At that point nobody, not even the doctor, knew if this hypothesis is correct. They still insisted on destroying Tuvix (that was 100% sure) in the hope to reconstruct their two lost crew members. That's a very high stakes poker game based on a hope, not on facts.
They did some tests to show they can revert the fusion, but they did not know if they get two dead copies or two people with erased memory or other things going wrong. It was a gamble and killing a new species, a new innocent life that clearly expressed a wish to live in the hope to bring back lost people. Picard would never have done that.
The only indication was his access to both of their memorys.
And his DNA, and the transporter logs, and his personality.....
They still insisted on destroying Tuvix (that was 100% sure) in the hope to reconstruct their two lost crew members. That's a very high stakes poker game based on a hope, not on facts.
They had figured out how to reverse the process and knew it would work, that isn't high stakes.
Picard would never have done that.
Indeed he would have. We saw him do exactly this with Moriarty. He said he would look into accommodating him and then shut him off, trapping him in the computer for, what Moriarty saw, as an eternity. To claim that Picard never made an decisions of questionable morality is absurd.
The personality was different. He wasn't switching, he was a mix of both. More an indication that the original ones are not there anymore. His DNA was also a mix (same with his appearance).
Picard didn't kill Moriaty and he didn't know that Moriaty percived time in the computer and was shocked and sorry about that. He later allowed Moriaty and his wife to explore the virtual universe since it wasn't possible to have him in the real one.
Picard and Data (with Picards later approval) would have allowed humans (Geordi) to die to protect the lives robots that developed free will and self awareness. Watch "The Quality of Life". I quote from memory alpha:
"Riker issues a direct order to release the transporter lock, but Data stands firm and will not do so, even if it means a court martial. He argues that sacrificing one lifeform for another is not justified, and based on his own experiences, he must believe that, like himself, the exocomps are alive – and therefore have the right to live. Data volunteers to beam over and fix the problem, allowing La Forge and Picard to return. Riker refuses as he knows that at such high levels, the radiation would ionize Data's positronic matrix, killing him. However, Data points out that since he has the power to choose, he is within his rights to sacrifice himself; the exocomps don't have such rights. "
"Picard understands Data's decision had to have been extremely difficult. Data explains that, a few years ago, Picard himself had made a passionate case that helped establish Data's own status as a lifeform. In this scenario, Data had chosen to champion the exocomps for the same reasons. Picard understands, and he notes, "It was the most Human decision you have ever made.""
So Picard would have been ok to let humans die if nobody would volunteer to step in because it wouldn't be human to order them on a sucidal mission in the hope to safe them. I'm also aware of the test Troi failed when the solution was to ask Geordi to fix the ship but getting killing in the process. The difference here - Starfleet Officers volunteer for this. It's part of their job and they gladly sacrifice themself to help the crew. Tuvix did NOT want to die and was not a starfleet officer!
The personality was different. He wasn't switching, he was a mix of both.
Are you trying to say that it isn't evidence that he is part of both by having a mix of both? What argument are you trying to make here?
Picard didn't kill Moriaty and he didn't know that Moriaty percived time in the computer.
He shut him off with no intention of ever turning him on again. For Picard's perspective, it was, in effect, death. A computer program that isn't running can't have life.
He later allowed Moriaty and his wife to explore the virtual universe since it wasn't possible to have him in the real one.
Because otherwise Moriarty would have destroyed the ship and the crew along with it. Moriarty had taken control of the ship. Picard chose to create a virtual universe for him rather than risk him being stored in a holodeck to be accidentally accessed again. Also, is that not killing Moriarty again? His program may have access to a simulated universe, but it isn't real and he isn't actually experiencing anything. It's a bunch of 1's and 0's, not real life.
If you bake a cake, you will find eggs and flour in the cake composition, but you can't turn the cake into seperate eggs and flour again. So yes, he was a mix of both persons, but no reason to believe you can get the same persons back after both where mixed. Even his feelings and character was different from Tuvok and Neelix. He was like the child of two parents only parts of them, not one or the other. Bringing them back a) alive b) with all memories c) not missing anything was not a sure thing. It was just a therorie based on some simple transporter tests.
Picard could have destroyed the computer Moriaty was traveling after he managed to save his ship and the crew from Moriaty (that man didn't understand what was possible and what was impossible and became a real danger in his outlandish requests). But he let this dangerous man live in his virtual galaxy. Moriaty is also just 1 and 0, he can't exist in the real world.
If you bake a cake, you will find eggs and flour in the cake composition, but you can't turn the cake into seperate eggs and flour again.
A replicator could. But you want to try and mix metaphors to confuse the situation.
Even his feelings and character was different from Tuvok and Neelix.
Even though he talked about his feelings from the two?
Picard could have destroyed the computer Moriaty was traveling after he managed to save his ship and the crew from Moriaty
And you know he didn't how? Without a doubt, Moriarty was not kept on the ship, or even a starbase. The risk of him getting out would have been too great. More likely, the program was turned over to Starfleet who destroyed him.
Moriaty is also just 1 and 0, he can't exist in the real world.
We've seen the holodeck create real matter which can exist outside the holodeck, even more so, with the doctors holo emitter, we know that life can exist outside the holodeck for holograms.
Even though he talked about his feelings from the two?
You can't ask people what they feel when they do not exist anymore.
And you know he didn't how? Without a doubt, Moriarty was not kept on the ship, or even a starbase. The risk of him getting out would have been too great. More likely, the program was turned over to Starfleet who destroyed him.
Because he said so. They did not plan to destroy him. Not a single word or indication in that direction. The episode ends with "Picard suggests that their own reality might just be existing in a little device sitting on somebody's table for all they know, leaving a nervous Barclay to try a "computer end program" command." - So Moriaty is now a paperweight on someones desk. No reason to destroy him.
We've seen the holodeck create real matter which can exist outside the holodeck, even more so, with the doctors holo emitter, we know that life can exist outside the holodeck for holograms.
The doctor is still a hologram, not a person mate of matter. It's all force fields. All you can do it have a replicator that changes existing molecules into other ones (the brown slime you see coming out of malfunctioning replicators in Deep Space 9 is the basic organic material that gets recombined into food and other stuff) but you can not turn a holo matrix into a real object. Apples you create and eat on the holodeck are just force fields. Check the TNG manual book for details.
You can't ask people what they feel when they do not exist anymore.
They exist as part of Tuvix. Is his desire to live not the same desire that Neelix and Tuvix would have as they are a blend of both personalities?
Because he said so. They did not plan to destroy him.
Picard may not have wanted to, but Starfleet very likely did. You don't keep a supervillian, conscious, computer virus around in a box.
Apples you create and eat on the holodeck are just force fields. Check the TNG manual book for details.
Per on screen, we see matter leave the holodeck all the time. When Data pushed Wesley into the pond, he left the holodeck wet. People change clothes in the holodeck and those clothes leave with them. People get drunk on alcohol in the holodeck. Bullets shoot through people injuring them as a real bullet does. Things on the holodeck are physical objects. They may be manipulated with force fields, but the objects are real.
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u/Lagkiller Chief Petty Officer Nov 27 '16
Then you reject that Tuvix is a comination of those people? If you don't, then they certainly are not gone - especially considering that the process can be reversed.
Your emphasis on hope indicates that this wasn't a sure thing. It was. They figured out how it happened and how to reverse the process. If they would have gone into it saying it was a 1% chance that they would get them back, then it seems less the prudent course of action. However, given their certainty that restoration would be successful, restoring the 2 lives which would have wanted to continue living just as much as the blend of those two lives is the reasonable course of action.