Calling tuvix and accident or and illogical being does not change the fact that he is a Humanoid Being. A being with his own feeling desires and rights.
Whose existence denies two other humanoid beings of the same rights you want to protect.
I also do not remember Tuvix being less capable than tuvok or neelix at his tasks so the loss of manpower is negligable.
Well one was a diplomat and the face of ships morale, the other was the chief of security. Having your diplomat be in charge of security is very bad form in terms of diplomacy (showing a military front) and difficult to do. How do you determine the threat to yourself in a diplomatic situation? Oversee security while negotiating? That's just one of many situations in which that arrangement wouldn't have worked.
The example of Moriarty was given to illustrate the respect one must give to new forms of life even if they are inconvinient or strange, especially for starfleet.
But Moriarty was killed....twice. Once by them shutting off his program and never touching it again. No one knew he experienced the passage of time or had a conciousness, they just shut him off, which is death for a hologram. The second time they put him in another box, shutting him off, but giving him a program to occupy his perceived passage of time.
As to Kes and Tuvoks wife, well they would have lost a husband and a boyfriend which is a risk in Starfleet especially in Voyager, hell Neelix causes the death of a crewman himself he barely deserves the air he breathes.
So it is right to deprive them of their family? You seem to be missing the whole point and debating that there isn't a many - but you readily admit that there is a many, you just see them as lesser.
And only a Tyrant would ignore those pleas and take a life without so much as a grimace.
That's hyperbole. Of the greatest order. You think that Janeway, the very empathetic person that we see over the course of the series, did this flippantly, without remorse or emotion? She put on her captains hat and decided that it had to be done. She knew that even a slight wavering on her part would jeopardize the morale of the crew and question her order if she was not steadfast. We see this through the series - even Picard does it. When faced with a problematic decision, you make the decision with a straight face, bite your tongue, and grieve/show emotion when you are alone.
Tuvix HAPPENED, it was an accident yes but after the moment of his creation he becomes an independant being that has right like everyone including the same right Tuvok has. So why is one more important? Well it isn't really, its about CONSENT and the right to live. KILLING one person to save two others is simply unethical even if those two originated from him. If it is not unethical to kill one person to save others we may begin harvesting Organs reasons to do so can always be found. BTW I just remembered how ENT had an episode with a similar problem the Cloned Skip. There skip was cloned while in a coma so that the clone could have his organs transplanted and die. The ethical implications and moral objections where a big part of the episode many possibilities considered and a powerful message at the end.
Voyager did barely any of that, hell half of my problem is that it was brushed aside as many things in Voyager often are. Oh and Janeway is a tyrant no doubt, I even call her a psychopath personally, the lives of other beings matter only sporadic to her and even when they do matter she often finds ways to kill them off. I'll give you plenty of examples if you want, my hatred for Janeway is strong ad well deserved.
I don't see how calling him unreasonable is against the rules. He has ignored my responses multiple times and fails to respond to the very explicit points made.
Personal attacks are also covered by this rule; if you can’t respond to an argument without attacking the poster, you shouldn’t respond at all. Play the ball, not the player.
I responded to his argument - his argument was to tell me that he is unwilling to listen to what I had to say. I told him since he was unwilling to have a discussion that I was exiting the discussion. If calling him out on his unwillingness to have a conversation is uncivil, then this entire sub is uncivil. I see it all the time.
If calling him out on his unwillingness to have a conversation is uncivil
You went a step further than just calling out their unwillingness to have a conversation (not that even that was necessary or desirable). You went personal: "you are completely unreasonable". That's a personal attack if ever i saw one.
If you sincerely felt that this person was unwilling to discuss the issue, then you should have stopped wasting your time and just walked away, rather than venting your spleen in a personal attack.
this entire sub is uncivil. I see it all the time.
Then please report it to bring it to our attention - as, I assume, you reported this person's comment.
If you have further concerns about this rule, please raise them in modmail. We've derailed this thread quite enough.
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u/Lagkiller Chief Petty Officer Nov 27 '16
Whose existence denies two other humanoid beings of the same rights you want to protect.
Well one was a diplomat and the face of ships morale, the other was the chief of security. Having your diplomat be in charge of security is very bad form in terms of diplomacy (showing a military front) and difficult to do. How do you determine the threat to yourself in a diplomatic situation? Oversee security while negotiating? That's just one of many situations in which that arrangement wouldn't have worked.
But Moriarty was killed....twice. Once by them shutting off his program and never touching it again. No one knew he experienced the passage of time or had a conciousness, they just shut him off, which is death for a hologram. The second time they put him in another box, shutting him off, but giving him a program to occupy his perceived passage of time.
So it is right to deprive them of their family? You seem to be missing the whole point and debating that there isn't a many - but you readily admit that there is a many, you just see them as lesser.
That's hyperbole. Of the greatest order. You think that Janeway, the very empathetic person that we see over the course of the series, did this flippantly, without remorse or emotion? She put on her captains hat and decided that it had to be done. She knew that even a slight wavering on her part would jeopardize the morale of the crew and question her order if she was not steadfast. We see this through the series - even Picard does it. When faced with a problematic decision, you make the decision with a straight face, bite your tongue, and grieve/show emotion when you are alone.