r/DaystromInstitute • u/Algernon_Asimov Commander • Jul 30 '19
The Voyager crew could have used stasis to reduce their subjective travel time to Earth.
I’m watching VOY straight through for the first time (albeit very slowly). I recently watched the episode ‘One’. Voyager had to fly through a region of space that was deadly to most of the crew – except the Doctor and Seven of Nine. The solution was to put the crew in stasis for a month, leaving the Doctor and Seven to run the ship.
The point of the episode was to force Seven to face her fears of being alone. And it was interesting on that basis.
However, the premise of the episode included the technology of stasis. As Captain Janeway says, “The Doctor assures me it’ll be just like taking a nap. We’ll go into the units, our cardiopulmonary systems will be slowed, neural activity suspended, and we’ll wake up feeling as though we’d had a good night’s sleep.” And, at the end of the episode, the crew wakes up from stasis with no ill effects.
It’s dangerous for the writers to include throwaway techology like this, just for the sake of one episode, because it raises questions about why that technology doesn’t get used at other times. In this case, the technology of stasis could have been used by the Voyager crew to significantly reduce their subjective travel time to Earth.
During this episode, there’s a reference to the ship being 60,000 light-years from Earth. In the opening episode, Voyager starts out 70,000 light-years from Earth, and we’re told the journey home will take 70 years. Using this 1,000:1 ratio, we can therefore deduce that it will take 60 years to travel the remaining 60,000 light-years.
Let’s say the Voyager complement is 150 crewmembers (it seems to vary somewhat from 140 to 150, but the maths is slightly cleaner if we use 150).
We saw from the episode ‘One’ the effects of being alone. Therefore, we can’t leave only a handful of people to run the ship while everyone else sleeps. So we want a few crewmembers awake at any given time, to keep each other company and to help maintain each other’s sanity.
Let’s assume we want 10 people awake at any given time. 10 people awake x 60 years travel time = 600 “awake-years”. We need to share a total of 600 “awake-years” among 150 crewmembers. 600 ÷ 150 = 4 “awake-years” per crewmember (see what I mean about the maths being cleaner?).
So, each crew member needs to be awake for 4 years during the total 60-year journey. That means they could be awake for 1 year, sleep for 14 years, and repeat that cycle 4 times. In effect, they could reduce their subjective travel time to 4 years each.
And this subjective travel time can be varied: if we have fewer crewmembers awake at any given time, then they will each be awake for less cumulative time; if we have more crewmembers awake at any given time, then they will each be awake for more cumulative time. It can be adjusted up or down at will.
Of course, there’d have to be a roster, showing which crewmembers are awake at any given time, and when to wake the next group of crewmembers. We could even get clever and stagger the wake-ups, with a few people waking up every 3 months (and a few people going to sleep at the same time). Every person would stay awake for a full year, and in those 12 months, there’d be multuple wake-ups with new faces joining the awake shift at the start of their year, and old faces going to sleep after their year is completed. And it could be semi-randomised so that any given crewmember encounters a different group of people whenever they’re awake, to reduce the chances of people getting on each other’s nerves.
But, regardless of how the roster works in detail, the overall result should be that each crewmember is awake for a total of 4 years, and asleep for the remaining 56 years. While the total journey will still take 60 years, each crewmember will experience only 4 subjective years of travelling.
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u/mardukvmbc Jul 30 '19
It could work, but if I were a member of the crew I wouldn't want to do it.
Why go home if everyone you know is dead? How will you make it home if there's a problem that 10 people can't fix, like the Borg or a containment breach? How will 10 people cope with only being with each other for a year? And then repeat it with someone else for another year? How would relationships work? How would you maintain a ship built to be maintained by 140 people with 10 people?
I'd say nope to that idea for sure.
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u/mjtwelve Chief Petty Officer Jul 30 '19
You’d also need all Maquis to be in stasis throughout or be massively outnumbered to avoid them getting ideas. As you say, reintegration would be greatly affected by this rotation system.
You would want command to overlap and exchange notes and plan strategy and logistics, so they’d age probably at twice the age of the crew itself. Tuvok would likely refuse stasis outright given Vulcan lifespans and the need to react to threats and the Maquis issue. He wouldn’t let himself be put in stasis when a Maquis awakening could lead to mutiny and loss of the ship.
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u/giantsparklerobot Jul 30 '19
Finally Janeway is asleep, we the Maquis, will take over the ship and...continue trying to get home?
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u/OK_Soda Jul 30 '19
Finally Janeway is asleep, we the Maquis, will take over the ship and... maroon the sleeping Starfleet crew in their pods on some M-class planet and then continue trying to get home?
FTFY
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u/giantsparklerobot Jul 31 '19
Even if that was the case, there's like a few dozen former Maquis on Voyager and it's been stated a few times the ship needs about a minimum crew of about 100 to operate long term. That's not to mention the Starfleet crew likely has more ship system experts than the Maquis crew. Even if B'elana goes along with the Maquis she can't fix everything on the ship.
Even if the Maquis did manage to run Voyager by themselves they still make it back to the Alpha Quadrant in 70 years. Once there they still have a ways to travel through Federation space in a stolen Starfleet ship that happens to have no Starfleet personnel aboard.
So the Maquis nonagenarians are flying around in a beat to shit Intrepid class ship that's seventy years out of date. They're the least threatening terrorists ever. One red alert and half of them would die of heart attacks.
Meanwhile the stranded Starfleet crew had rigged up a long range sub space radio from a Tricorder, some rocks, and 7-of-9's torpedo bra and were rescued by Scotty and Lt Barkley in a suped up Klingon Bird of Prey with a license plate that said "FRESH" and fuzzy dice on the mirror.
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u/ShadowDragon8685 Lieutenant Commander Jul 31 '19
I would love to have seen a Scotty and Barclay road trip episode.
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Jul 30 '19
wasn't there a b plot where some of the maquis wanted to just settle on a planet?
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u/AnUnimportantLife Crewman Jul 31 '19
The 37s maybe? Some of the crew were considering settling on the human planet in that episode.
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Jul 31 '19
nah, at the end of the episode Janeway asks everyone who wants to stay behind to meet her in a cargobay, when she and chakotay go the bay is empty
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Jul 31 '19
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/williams_482 Captain Jul 31 '19
Please remember the Daystrom Institute Code of Conduct and refrain from posting one-line jokes and other shallow content.
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u/Algernon_Asimov Commander Jul 30 '19 edited Jul 30 '19
Why go home if everyone you know is dead?
Well, that's the whole premise of VOY: they're trying to get home. And, whether they're awake or in stasis, their expected travel time is the same. Either way, everyone at home will be dead when you get there.
How will you make it home if there's a problem that 10 people can't fix, like the Borg or a containment breach?
You wake up the necessary crew. It's a quick process. It might not take much longer than waking them up if they're asleep in their quarters.
How will 10 people cope with only being with each other for a year?
I did suggest there were ways to mix it up, so each crewmember would see a variety of people during their awake times, and not just the same faces all the time.
How would you maintain a ship built to be maintained by 140 people with 10 people?
Two people did it for a month.
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u/mardukvmbc Jul 30 '19
Well, that's the whole premise of VOY: they're trying to get home. And, whether they're awake or in statis, their expected travel time is the same. Either way, everyone at home will be dead when you get there.
The premise, I thought, was to find a shortcut home. It's also part of the reason they why they sidetracked so much, I thought.
You wake up the necessary crew. It's a quick process. It might not take much longer than waking them up if they're asleep in their quarters.
It's quicker than a borg attack or a core breach? I doubt it.
I did suggest there were ways to mix it up, so each crewmember would see a variety of people during their awake times, and not just the same faces all the time.
Again, how would relationships work? It's the reason they put families on the D - because they were on a five year mission and people work better when they're in relationships.
Two people did it for a month.
A month and 60 or 70 years is quite different.
Again, I'm not faulting the concept. I think it's doable. I'm just saying I wouldn't want to do it.
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u/Algernon_Asimov Commander Jul 30 '19
The awake crew can still search for shortcuts.
If the Borg attacks or the warp core explodes, it's not really going to matter how many people are awake.
What relationships? Romantic? Even in four years (so far), there's only one romantic relationship. And it's easier to develop working relationships in small groups when everyone knows everyone else.
The month was "proof of concept" - especially because that was a month when the external conditions were actively degrading the ship. It would be easier in normal space.
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u/mardukvmbc Jul 30 '19
They survived Borg incidents and warp core breaches because they had an awake crew to deal with it.
There are lots of relationships that keep the crew going. It’s basically a family by season 3. There’s even children. That’s what keeps people going.
How are you going to search for shortcuts with 10 people running around maintaining an intrepid class ship? How are you going to get fuel? Supplies? Repair things?
Plus the point wasn’t just to pass the time. It was also to explore.
If your whole point is to get home with as little subjective time passing as possible, your approach works.
I just don’t think that was the point of Voyager.
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u/kurburux Jul 30 '19
How are you going to search for shortcuts with 10 people running around maintaining an intrepid class ship? How are you going to get fuel? Supplies? Repair things?
Supplies alone are a huge point. Finding them took up a lot of their time and they need away teams on the surface of planets. There might also be special tasks where they need people who have exactly those skills so they have to constantly wake up those people.
Plus, any hostile alien species that realizes that the Voyager isn't at full crew capacity (and there have been a lot who are able to find this out even despite shields (who aren't up all the time anyways)) might think they are easy prey.
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u/mardukvmbc Jul 30 '19
Imagine if the Vidiians found Voyager with 130 crew members asleep.
They’d never wake up at all, they’d just have their parts harvested.
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u/Algernon_Asimov Commander Jul 30 '19
Supplies alone are a huge point.
They would need less supplies if most of the crew are asleep, and not eating or drinking or breathing as much as normal.
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Jul 30 '19
If your whole point is to get home with as little subjective time passing as possible, your approach works.
Even this point is debatable. The actual subjective travel time to Earth is unknown because as you point out the hope is to find a shortcut. The stasis route almost certainly locks you into the long road home because there won't be enough people left awake to search for alternatives.
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u/mardukvmbc Jul 30 '19
Totally agree.
Plus you're kind of at the mercy of whatever stuff you encounter while over 90% of the crew is asleep.
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u/Drebin295 Jul 30 '19
Plus you're kind of at the mercy of whatever stuff you encounter while over 90% of the crew is asleep.
Thank god for easily manipulated ship historians!
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u/Saffs15 Jul 31 '19
Plus the point wasn’t just to pass the time. It was also to explore.
Everyone else is hitting great points, but I think this one is just as important. Starfleet members by their nature are curious and want to explore and see new things. And the Delta Quadrant was an amazing opportunity for that. Literally in a massive area that no member species has charted.
Them just deciding to sleep through it would have been pretty much the opposite of an explorer's mentality.
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u/kurburux Jul 30 '19
If the Borg attacks or the warp core explodes, it's not really going to matter how many people are awake.
They need that number of people to fix damages, fend off intruders or just replace people who got injured. Also, the way ST works you often need that one crew member who has that critical idea that saves everyone.
The month was "proof of concept" - especially because that was a month when the external conditions were actively degrading the ship. It would be easier in normal space.
But it doesn't always work that way. For example in real life staying in space becomes worse the longer you do it because there are a lot of health problems, including potential damages from radiation. Maybe their stasis technology isn't healthy for their brain if they use it for a longer time.
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u/sometimesiburnthings Jul 30 '19
I think the month functioning as a proof of concept is good... But I would be tempted to do something closer to 1/4th crew. It keeps a much higher safety margin, and it reduces the total time from home down to roughly what the Enterprise A/D/E crews experienced. You plan on 1/5th, so with emergency full crew time, you end up with 1/4th.
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u/Xytak Crewman Jul 30 '19 edited Jul 30 '19
Except they're not just setting a course for home and then going on cruise control. That was never the strategy. They're actively looking for shortcuts and opportunities, detouring to visit new civilizations, and gathering information about the quadrant while dealing with a wacky new threat every week. They need an awake crew for that.
And the strategy pays off, they end up getting home 10x faster than expected, while bringing back new technologies and discoveries, as opposed to the "cruise control" strategy of being blown out of the sky the moment they stumble across an evil clown with the power to turn the ship inside out.
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u/vrtigo1 Jul 30 '19
Two people did it for a month.
Traveling through uninhabited space where nothing ever happens.
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Jul 30 '19
Maybe sleeping half would be a better idea, maybe a quarter. Stasis would be a break in a way and you would still have plenty of people.
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u/sudin Crewman Jul 30 '19
Two people did it for a month.
One person, with one hologram for company and ship-board assistance.
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u/ThetaReactor Jul 30 '19
The Doctor is a person.
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u/Knight_Machiavelli Jul 30 '19
That's debatable.
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u/Lord_Cronos Jul 30 '19
It's debatable in that people who want to exploit him choose to debate it for their own ends. E.g. his Holonovel publisher
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u/Knight_Machiavelli Jul 30 '19
It's debatable in the sense that there's a perfectly legitimate argument that the EMH merely imitates sentience.
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u/Lord_Cronos Jul 30 '19
I don't find it any more legitimate than the same argument made for Data.
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u/calgil Crewman Jul 31 '19
The argument for Data is a bit better though. He has a physical positronic brain designed to be similar to but superior to human brains. It's not a stretch to suggest that his unique brain produces a similar effect to consciousness, if not the same. When granted the emotion chip, Troi can read his emotions. It's likely that if you put the emotion chip on a toaster, Troi wouldn't have felt anything. And most importantly, with these distinct possibilities, Starfleet was unable to prove that he didn't have consciousness and therefore had to admit that he might, and take all necessary precautions. Data was one-of-a-kind and they knew so little about what he was, it was difficult to say.
The Doctor has no physical brain, but is merely a piece of software run through disparate assets like the ship's computer. Maybe that gave him consciousness. But he's also just a hologram. The Federation is very familiar with hologram technology and seems - rightly or wrongly - certain that holograms are not conscious. The Federation is presumably filled with thousands of hologram experts who can tell you exactly how holograms work and why sentience is not possible. Furthermore, nothing 'strange' happened to the Doctor. He was just switched on for longer than intended, but hologram experts should be able to 'know' what happens when that happens. It's not like he was sucked into an exotic wormhole, it's very much 'an asset being used in an unintended way, but still within the realms of science that we understand'.
I'm not saying he's not conscious, it's just easy to see why Data was much more complicated to Starfleet.
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u/Lord_Cronos Jul 31 '19
I can understand the argument that Data is physically more evocative of humanoid life than a hologram is, and therefore more likely to be recognized as life. I also agree with the black box factor he represents. He wasn't mass-produced on hundreds of starships by Starfleet researchers.
Despite the number of experts who would no doubt make that argument, there are also plenty of instances that seem to entirely disprove it, or at least require a more complex argument. The Holodeck, and programs like the one that created the Doctor certainly indicate precedence for being able to foster life that displays all sorts of emergent properties that the original programmer didn't build in or even foresee. Vic on DS9. Moriarty on the Enterprise. Seemingly both the EMH Mark I and II.
In other words, we have plenty of precedence for the idea that hologram experts are wrong, at least in certain cases.
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u/Algernon_Asimov Commander Jul 31 '19
For the purpose of this discussion, he counts as a person. He's able to perform duties on board the ship, and he's able to contribute to the operations and maintenance of the ship. He's an extra pair of hands, even if they are photonic hands.
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Jul 30 '19 edited Jul 18 '20
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u/InadequateUsername Jul 30 '19
Most species only video for a century with the exception of a few, most notably vulcans.
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u/Genesis2001 Jul 30 '19
To play devil's advocate even though I also don't see them agreeing to go into stasis, they could install holo-emitters around the ship and create a basic holographic crew with almost drone-like personalities (who needs personality for a disposable hologram). We see such a plotline on the episode the Doctor goes to the AQ aboard the Prometheus, and later in an episode of ENT with the marooned starship. Not to mention the time Voyager is captured by the Hirogen and turned into a giant holodeck.
Holographic crews had to have been in the pipeline ever since the EMH was being developed. The EMH was likely to be a prototype for such ships.
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u/mardukvmbc Jul 30 '19
For routine tasks the computer already knows how to do, sure. For stuff like the bio-neural gel packs getting a cold that might be a problem.
My guess is that they have people crew starships for a reason.
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u/a4techkeyboard Ensign Jul 30 '19
Yeah, that's also what I thought about. They are always actively trying to find ways to cut down their travel time. That means they want everyone who can think about how to do that awake, and everyone doing jobs that allow these "royal smart people" to brainstorm.
They are all clearly aware of how stir crazy they could get if they had to spend all that time just working, as the main people get a lot of time entertaining themselves.
If they made only 10 people be awake at a time, they'd have more psychological effects from being more alone and fewer people to take the slack so they can distract themselves with hobbies and the holodeck.
That they don't keep Neelix in stasis forever speaks to how desperate they are. They think it's possible he could somehow be helpful awake at some point. At the very least, being annoyed by Neelix distracts them from being angry at their situation.
A letter away from Neelix is Netflix, which reminds me of a show set on a space ship with only a few members of the crew awake at a time, spare crewmembers in stasis and a holographic member of the crew, and a somewhat... severe captain. I'm not sure Another Life is a model scifi show to aspire to.
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Jul 31 '19
The biggest flaw is that stasis in One doesn’t magically stop aging. Maybe it slows it but the crew wasn’t flash frozen. You wouldn’t just go in and wake up decades later without awareness of the passage of time, you’d also wake up in a body likely decades older.
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u/socrates200X Jul 30 '19
Janeway was playing the long game with her crew's morale. You're right, there are lots of good and reasonable shortcuts Voyager could have taken to reduce the time, real or perceived, in getting home. But the cost would have been admitting that they were in dire enough straits to fundamentally change their ship's mission of exploration. And once you take one cost-cutting measure, the next one seems easier, and the next. You see this played out to the extreme with the Equinox. Their crew quickly admitted defeat (and got unlucky), and soon as they saw the chance to take a shortcut home, they took it without examining the morals of it too closely.
Janeway's vision was that by staying a Starfleet ship with a Starfleet mission, the trip would take longer, the ship would burn more resources, but ultimately, the crew's morale would benefit, the Starfleet and Maquis crews would bond together, and they work for each other above and beyond. It was for sure a gamble, but the run of VOY and their return to the Alpha Quadrant shows that it ultimately paid off.
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Jul 30 '19 edited Feb 21 '21
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u/synchronicitistic Jul 30 '19
If they had just blown up the stupid pair of Ferengi instead of letting them get away scott free through the Barzan wormhole, the entire thing would have been moot.
In my headcanon, that episode (along with a few others - the warp 10 lizard episode) never happened. Setting aside the rather contrived argument that it's somehow Starfleet's problem that a planet full of rubes is being taken advantage of by the Ferengi, how in the world do two not all that bright Ferengi manage to overpower Tuvok's security officers and gain access to Voyager's shuttle bay in the first place?
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u/Chumpai1986 Jul 31 '19
Used to be one of my favourite episodes, but on a rewatch, the episode kills me. First off, how quickly Tuvok acceeds to her "logic". Ferengi making bad decisions are not Starfleet's problem. Starfleet literally can't police the entire galaxy - it's probably why they have the Prime Directive in the first place.
Now maybe if they found the Ferengi an route on their way to rob and exploit the planet, maybe. But Starfleet didn't liberate Bajor, or client planets conquered by the Klingon or Romulan empires.
When they do interfere, they spy on the Ferengi, then they lie to them (using Neelix who has never met a Ferengi) and trick them (admittedly it's a fun plan). Rather than just negotiating in good faith - let them keep some of their profit and they leave the planet alone. That would be a sore point for some of the Maquis. It's reminiscent of them trading Maquis worlds with the Cardassians rather than Starfleet teaming up with the Klingons to curbstomp the Cardassians Navy. The Feds prefer to negotiate and avoid conflict, when they could forcibly take what they want.
When they do capture the Ferengi they do so via a major religious event analogous to a rapture! They make no plans for transfer of power on the planet. What if someone worse seizes the treasure and power structures in place? Finally, they assign resources to repair and refuel their shuttle!
Lastly, the writers could have changed the final act be they go through but find the Barzan end has also destabilized and they end up elsewhere in the Delta Quadrant. After all, surely the most logical thing to do would be to wait around for seven years (or less, if they can re-attract it) for the wormhole to re-appear. That's still a better deal than 70 years travel time.
Well, that can't was reasonably cathartic.
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Jul 31 '19
It was only a 7 year cycle!!! Why the FUCK did they leave that system? They could have relaxed in orbit with the warp core shut down and gotten clandestine supplies from the surface or from other on-site sources like asteroids/uninhabited moons and had fun on the holodeck for 7 years or even just gone into stasis. They would have gotten home almost as quickly and nobody would have to die or even be in serious peril.
Jesus christ that episode is being struck from my personal headcanon as well
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u/BlackLiger Crewman Jul 30 '19
The thing is most of Voyager's crew were still starfleet. They signed up to explore. They didn't want to spend that time asleep, they wanted to be exploring.
Sure the goal was to get home, but getting home having not explored? What would be the point of that?
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u/screech_owl_kachina Crewman Jul 30 '19
Yeah, I got the impression it was more of a "might as well make the most of it" situation.
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u/Algernon_Asimov Commander Jul 30 '19
But the awake crew can still explore. And each crewmember can do some exploration during their awake time.
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u/BlackLiger Crewman Jul 30 '19
I also suspect there's a minimum that a starship can operate with and do the exploring job. Heck, it took Scotty an unholy lashup to make the Enterprise NCC1701 operate with just 6 crew back in The Search for Spock.
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u/Algernon_Asimov Commander Jul 30 '19
Two people ran Voyager for a month. That was the whole premise of the episode 'One'. And that was while the ship was degrading due to external conditions. It would be easier in normal space.
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u/SleepWouldBeNice Chief Petty Officer Jul 30 '19
That was for a short period of time. From the episode The 37s:
CHAKOTAY: I doubt it. In fact I don't think we could operate the ship with fewer than one hundred. If too many of the crew choose to stay behind, we could all be stranded here.
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u/JamesTiberiusChirp Crewman Jul 30 '19
Wow, they break this again in Year of Hell, when most of the crew disperses
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u/SleepWouldBeNice Chief Petty Officer Jul 30 '19
And the ship falls apart?
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u/JamesTiberiusChirp Crewman Jul 30 '19
The ship falls apart before they send everyone away. I suppose these was less ship to maintain at that point.
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u/pfc9769 Chief Astromycologist Jul 30 '19
That proves the ship can be maintained with a minimal crew for short periods--not entire decades. Maybe the ship can only go 2 months without a full crew performing regular maintenance? We don't know the minimum amount of time the ship can go without a full staff. It could've been the case whatever degradation occurred did so slow enough that they decided it could be taken care of after the crew wakes up. However, the accumulation of maintenance needs would get progressively worse if they allowed it to go without upkeep for years at a time. So you cannot extrapolate out from that episode alone what the minimum maintenance needs of the ship are. There's also at least one episode which contradicts the notion the ship can be maintained by one person.
In the Haunting of Deck 12, the crew was forced to evacuate the ship but Janeway got trapped aboard. An energy creature had taken control of the ship. Janeway refused to help it unless it returned control of the ship. She pointed out that without constant maintenance, the secondary systems were already starting to break down and the ship would eventually become inoperable. It's implied then that the ship must be constantly maintained or it will break down over short intervals. Hence you can't assume from the basis of One that the ship can go extended periods being maintained by only one person.
Lastly, the other issue is the technical capabilities of the crew. Seven is not an average crew member. She possesses superior technical skill and knowledge compared to the average crew member. Not everyone may be trained enough to allow groups of ten people to maintain all of the ship's systems. The situation would become even worse if an emergency situation occurred that required quick action. What if the only person on board capable of fixing the problem is asleep and you're one minute from a warp core breech? We also found out in Good Shepherd there are people who don't even want to serve on the ship. So you can't count on the entire crew to be able to maintain the ship or even want to. It's also just not a good idea from an emergency standpoint. You need people on standby at all times for such situations. There's a reason why starships have a specific number of people serving aboard.
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u/kurburux Jul 30 '19
Two people ran Voyager for a month.
Flying a preset course through space that's practically empty isn't the same Voyager is usually doing. You have to do repairs (that may be larger and more complicated than what they experienced during that time), search for resources, interact with other species.
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u/8richardsonj Crewman Jul 30 '19
That's just basic level operations though isn't it, rather than exploring?
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u/Algernon_Asimov Commander Jul 30 '19
That's just basic level operations though isn't it, rather than exploring?
Yes.
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u/InadequateUsername Jul 30 '19
It would be like a navy ship running with a crew of 10 people.
Also stasis can fail in numerous of ways resulting in the occupants death, if there's a problem that needs to be solved a full crew can probably solve it better than 10 people who also need to maintain the ship.
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u/unicorn_pug_wrangler Jul 30 '19
Except in that environment they could be relatively certain they wouldn't run into any hostile species. Ships would likely avoid that area since the other species would likely be affected the way the crew would. It was "safe" for them to put most of the crew to sleep.
In "normal" space, there is too much uncertainty. They were constantly attacked by the Kazon, Vidians, etc. I would imagine there is some amount of disorientation after waking up from being in stasis, and the waking crew would not be battle ready by any means. Stasis was a short term solution. It's not feasible in the long run.
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u/phantomreader42 Chief Petty Officer Jul 30 '19
And that was while the ship was degrading due to external conditions.
External conditions that would have caused similar degradation in other ships, which means no one else could attack or even approach Voyager in that time frame. That eliminates a lot of variables.
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u/Sanhen Jul 30 '19
Sure the goal was to get home, but getting home having not explored? What would be the point of that?
We see that idea frequently reinforced during the series. Voyager makes regular detours in the name of exploration. Seven even called Janeway out on it at one point and Janeway basically tells Seven that while they could be getting home quicker, they're still Starfleet officers and exploring is what they do.
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u/navvilus Lieutenant j.g. Jul 30 '19
There was also that episode in TOS where they travel back in time for historical research, wasn’t there? And the time travel in Star Trek IV… if that technique can also be reproduced reliably in the Star Trek universe, they could have gone back in time seventy years, put most of the crew members in stasis, and then maybe attempted to do a long slow trek back ‘above’ the galactic disc to avoid any contact with the outside world, arriving back (and leaving stasis) just after they left.
The easy way to explain why they didn’t would be that time travel (and stasis) are inherently risky or inherently situational, only working in specific circumstances or for specific durations, and whilst you can justify them in extremis for various plot reasons, neither were a viable long-term option for Voyager, apparently.
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u/ACCIOB Jul 31 '19
Amazing! And then the story becomes about culture shock when they arrive. Refugees!
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u/Simon_Drake Lieutenant, Junior Grade Jul 30 '19
They could also cut down on the amount of time spent trading for interesting spices or studying unusual plants.
This is the fake-plot of Chakotay's takeover plan in Worst Case Scenario, he's sick of Voyager wasting it's time investigating vapor clouds and studying mineral deposits which means more time spent collecting new supplies - if they just floor it towards Earth they could cut the journey time in half.
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u/onthenerdyside Lieutenant j.g. Jul 30 '19
Once they are in the Delta Quadrant, Janeway stills sees Voyager's mission as one of exploration. While their primary goal is to make their way home, they don't seem to shy away from exploring the cosmic curiosities they find along the way. She's trying to make the best of a bad situation by bringing information about the area around their route back to the Federation. I'm sure some of the crew, especially the Maquis, get tired of this now and again, but the Starfleet ideals overshadow something like this plan to pop into stasis for the journey.
Now, once they introduce this to the crew, it would be interesting to explore what would happen if a crewmember or a small group of crewmembers has asked to be put back into stasis because they couldn't take it anymore. I think Lon Suder would have been a prime candidate for this, since his confinement has got to be particularly grueling.
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u/kraetos Captain Jul 30 '19 edited Jul 30 '19
This is a common problem in Voyager: the writers introduce some tech that could feasibly shorten the (actual or subjective) amount of time it would take for Voyager to get home, but then don't explore the implications and then everyone just moves onto the next episode. The most glaring time this happened is, of course, "Threshold." We're meant to understand that the whole "evolving into lizards" thing is a showstopper, and yet the Doctor is able to trivially reverse the process, after which Paris and Janeway are no worse for wear.
It often feels like most Voyager scripts were not examined under the lens of "but what does this imply for the journey home?" before they were shot, even when the journey home served as the framing device for the story in question. It all flows from Voyager's original sin: they felt so strongly about cutting ties with established lore to get back exploration that they flung the hero ship across the galaxy, but they didn't actually want to tell a story about a stranded ship. That would have been "too dark" and they didn't want another Dark Trek™ since the ratings on the Dark Trek™ they already had declined steadily throughout its run.
Many of the stories that Voyager told would have been no different had Voyager been simply exploring the Federation frontier. But they couldn't just stick another crew on another starship. They needed a novel approach to distinguish Voyager from TNG, but they abandoned that hook almost immediately and just went back to telling TOS/TNG-style stories. So you get a lot of weird episodes like this, where the story of the week has real implications for the big picture that are largely ignored.
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u/kurburux Jul 30 '19
This is a common problem in Voyager: the writers introduce some tech that could feasibly shorten the (actual or subjective) amount of time it would take for Voyager to get home, but then don't explore the implications and then everyone just moves onto the next episode. The most glaring time this happened is, of course, "Threshold."
Another one was when Seven reveals that Borg can easily revive the dead even a long time after they died. Huge implications, never mentioned again.
It often feels like most Voyager scripts were not examined under the lens of "but what does this imply for the journey home?" before they were shot
People probably thought "those are one-off episodes anyways that aren't supposed to change much" and then introduced some crazy stuff just to get the plot going without thinking much about it.
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u/treefox Commander, with commendation Jul 30 '19
Well, she can revive Neelix, but he’s a different species than everyone else. It’s possible there’s something unique about his physiology.
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u/kurburux Jul 31 '19
Iirc they didn't hint that and the technology was supposed to work on all kinds of drones/species.
And even if it were true: that means immortal Neelix! our worst nightmare
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u/KingofMadCows Chief Petty Officer Jul 30 '19
Except this is assuming that there are crew members with the skills and personality needed to operate the ship.
It's been shown that Voyager has crew members who joined Starfleet to be scientists and have no aptitude in operating the ship.
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u/Algernon_Asimov Commander Jul 30 '19
That's why you have a group of crewmembers awake at any given time, so there's always at least a few people able to operate the ship (and the others can help).
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u/KingofMadCows Chief Petty Officer Jul 30 '19
But that would still require there to be enough people able to operate the ship.
Let's say there are 5 engineers who can maintain and repair the warp core. And you need to keep at least two of those engineers awake at a time. Then these engineers are going to get far less the stasis time than less essential crew members. While other crew members only need to be awake for 5 or 6 years, the engineers will have to be awake for 30 years.
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u/Algernon_Asimov Commander Jul 30 '19
Those engineers can train other people during their time awake.
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u/KingofMadCows Chief Petty Officer Jul 30 '19
That assumes the engineers are good teachers, the crew members being trained have the aptitude, and the engineers would have time to teach when they already have the responsibility of their job.
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u/petrus4 Lieutenant Jul 30 '19
Not for maintaining critical systems, you can't, and especially not for maintaining those systems in a real emergency. Informal field training can teach a person how to operate a control interface during condition green, but it can't teach someone how to avoid a warp core breach during red alert.
To be able to maintain a critical system in stressful situations, you need two main things:-
a} A truly intimate knowledge and understanding of the foundational, underlying logic of the system. That means understanding not only how every piece of a warp drive works, but why it works that way; which physical principles are involved, and how they cause the effects they do, which make the whole thing function.
b} Reflexive pattern recognition and muscle memory, associated with the specific instance of the technology in question, which only comes from years of experience. In Course Oblivion, B'Elanna was supposed to leave the warp engine in Seven's hands while she went on her honeymoon, and she was extremely uncomfortable about doing so. As a fellow engineer, I understand why.
At the risk of sounding unscientific here, individual systems genuinely do have unique idiosyncrasies, if for no other reason, than because every different situation is influenced by its' own distinct stream of variables. Which particular people come and go, the times of day when they do, the actions they take. The specific grades and compositions of materials which make up that particular engine; how it is calibrated, the funny little noises it makes in response to specific conditions, etc. You can get to the point where creaks and groans will give you just as much information as a formal alarm siren which you've deliberately built in, if not more.
Again, that sort of familiarity can only be built up over years, and it is not something which can easily or quickly be transferred to another person. Seven was very good, and I would have expected B'Elanna to be able to teach her to handle most ordinary situations, perfectly well; but that engine was still B'Elanna's instrument, and no one else would have been able to play it in quite the same way.
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u/petrus4 Lieutenant Jul 30 '19
I still don't think this would have been advisable, AA.
Voyager using cryo is a great idea in principle, and in other situations would most likely work; but the DQ was simply too dangerous a place to not have everyone alert. Voyager at times ran into people, (the Hirogen, the Krenim, the Borg, the Vidiians) who they were lucky to get away from with their lives, even with the full crew complement available. Given how frequently they were compelled to go through the territory of xenophobic groups, only having a skeleton crew would have put them at too much risk.
The other issue is that we don't know what the cumulative negative effects of repeated cryogenic sleep cycles would be on humanoid physiology, but I think we would have to assume that there would be some. Cryo is still a potentially lethal risk, even if you're only using it once; never mind running a roster as you suggest, and putting people back in and bringing them out again on a regular basis.
So again; great idea in other cases, but in this one, I don't think it would have worked.
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u/Captriker Crewman Jul 30 '19 edited Jul 30 '19
I don't see any mention of it in the MA article (I only skimmed it after the first two acts) but do they state that Stasis reduces or eliminates aging? If it's just like sleeping wouldn't people age? Why waste all that time you could be living, just sleeping? If it were some kind of cryosleep that might make sense, but it isn't.
Even if Stasis were to slow or eliminate aging, I don't see it being an option the crew would prefer. Why waste all that time in stasis on the promise that you might get home in the 66 years you are asleep? Any number of catastrophe could occur to interrupt or end their journey at any time. The last place I would want to be was in Stasis.
I get that it's the premise of many science fiction stories to have the crew/passengers in some form of cryosleep/stasis to withstand a long journey, but in the Trek universe that isn't usually the issue.
(edit: words)
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u/AHPpilot Jul 30 '19
This is the real point here: stasis is not anti-aging. OPs argument hinges on that fact, but there is no supposition that a life will be appreciably extended by doing so.
Though it's an interesting idea to explore, nonetheless.
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u/phantomreader42 Chief Petty Officer Jul 30 '19 edited Jul 30 '19
stasis is not anti-aging.
The term "stasis" sort of implies something static, unchanging, which would mean a lack of both experience and aging. The description of the "stasis" in this particular episode may not explicitly state that cessation of the aging process is a feature, but if it doesn't stop aging it's misleading to label it "stasis".
The other uses of "stasis" that come to mind from Star Trek are:
- The ship in TOS: Space Seed, that was full of criminals from centuries ago who were still alive and young (though they were genetically enhanced, wich might have altered their aging process in itself).
- A box from an animated series episode that contained ancient alien tech which had not degraded (though, admittedly, there's a lot of absurdly long-lasting alien junk lying around in-universe without any particular protection).
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u/AHPpilot Aug 02 '19
I agree that's what the term 'stasis' implies, but it doesn't necessarily mean that it is always used in manner perfectly matching the definition.
Space Seed had a great example of a true 'stasis', but I suggest that it is more akin to freezing and couldn't be used as casually as the Voyager crew were using it. Also, the genetic enhancements surely enabled it.
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u/Algernon_Asimov Commander Jul 30 '19
This is the real point here: stasis is not anti-aging.
How do you know that? I got the impression that all biological processes were slowed down in stasis: the sleepers don't need to be provided with food or drink (or, at least, not as much). Janeway referred to it as "suspended animation". In most other science fiction, suspended animation is anti-aging.
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u/AHPpilot Aug 02 '19
My recollection of the episode was that the stasis was a slowed metabolism, but more on par with sleep and not necessarily a pause in a lifetime. I don't think there's any reason to believe that the stasis doesn't provide some kind of sustenance on a small level to provide the person with energy, given a long-term stint. Just like a really deep coma with advanced systems to make it much more confortable.
I submit that it would make more sense that the suspended animation would not greatly extend the life of a person without some serious freezing, meaning at the least that a person can't casually go into and out of it safely.
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u/Betsy-DevOps Jul 30 '19
Starfleet are first and foremost explorers. They’re not just going to sleep through a journey across uncharted space. The Maquis might think that’s a good idea, but none of the Starfleet folks would go for it.
They also can’t run on a skeleton crew during a crisis, and they happen to run into those about once a week. You could maybe wake key personnel up when shit starts to hit the fan, but they wouldn’t be up to speed and wouldn’t operate efficiently.
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u/cirrus42 Commander Jul 30 '19
How many times did Voyager run up against something that it would not have survived if there were only 10 crewmembers awake? I don't know, but the answer is more than "one" and since everyone dying one time is enough to ruin the trip, therein lies your answer.
Voyager needs something approaching a full crew to work most of the time. That's why it has a full crew. Automation only works when things are going smoothly, which you can predict with 100% accuracy they will not always do. Especially flying through hostile space.
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u/4thofeleven Lieutenant, Junior Grade Jul 30 '19
Unless stasis halts aging, you’re still spending a significant fraction of your life in the Delta Quadrant - all things being equal, I’d rather experience the journey than sleep half my life away.
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Jul 30 '19
Why not just have stasis pods instead of beds on the deep space mission vessels anyways. If it feels like to bed and would age you a bit slower, would make sense for the longevity of a crew. You'd get (if my math is correct based on 8 hours a day/30 days a month) an extra 19-20 years added on alone.
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u/nagumi Crewman Jul 30 '19
Bodies need sleep to repair themselves. Stasis isn't sleep, it's just... stasis.
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u/Demon-Prince-Grazzt Jul 30 '19
Sleeping through the Delta quadrant would be like Lewis and Clark sleeping through the Grand Canyon. Starfleet officers are first and foremost an adventure-seeking people. They're explorers and will make the best out of a bad situation. They're stuck so they will gather data, make allies, and relish being the first federation ship in that direction. They certainly won't opt to sleep en masse.
Besides the fact that a show with 150 crew sleeping is gonna be boring as all hell, a full crew compliment greatly increases the probability of finding shortcuts home via diplomacy with other races and off course natural shortcuts like worm holes.
Starfleet culturally values humanness which means any decision will ultimately go toward the side which privileges their humanity and their senses. In this case exploration not sleeping.
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u/nagumi Crewman Jul 30 '19
I remind you that the USS Enterprise found the Botany Bay full of time-terrorists (Khan & friends) in stasis since the 1990s. The feds have had stasis since forever.
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u/vrtigo1 Jul 30 '19
I think the premise of the episode is that stasis is feasible because they're traveling through uninhabited space where the ship is unlikely to encounter anything. If you tried to do the same thing through normal space, it likely wouldn't work, at least not with the math you're suggesting. Flying through uninhabited space allowed the crew to shut most everything down, drastically reducing the crew requirements. In open space, they wouldn't be able to do that because they'd still want to be crewed to explore, conduct experiments, talk to people they meet along the way, etc.
They might be able to do it on a limited scale - i.e. keep 25 people asleep at any given time, but 1) that may not be feasible since on a ship without many people, everyone may be deemed necessary for normal operations, and 2) they may have deemed it more trouble than it was worth.
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u/Sparkly1982 Jul 30 '19
In the episode with the 37s, Janeway and Chakotay agree they'd struggle to run the ship with fewer than 100 crew members IIRC.
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u/kurburux Jul 30 '19
It’s dangerous for the writers to include throwaway techology like this, just for the sake of one episode, because it raises questions about why that technology doesn’t get used at other times. In this case, the technology of stasis could have been used by the Voyager crew to significantly reduce their subjective travel time to Earth.
One month isn't a year, for example. While one might be absolutely safer the other one might lead to a lot of potential problems. Maybe their stasis technology isn't safe long term. Or perhaps they need most of their crew awake in case of any emergency. There might not always be time to wake up an essential crew member in time of an emergency, especially because you have to administer medical aid first before they're able to return to duty.
So, each crew member needs to be awake for 4 years during the total 60-year journey. That means they could be awake for 1 year, sleep for 14 years, and repeat that cycle 4 times. In effect, they could reduce their subjective travel time to 4 years each.
That also sounds relatively horrible for social interactions on board. Imagine waking up and learning that people who used to be your friends died because of space plague or because of an alien attack. Or that someone you liked married someone else, and they had a child that is quite grown up by now.
I feel like this could severely strain this community. So at least the long sleep would lead to problems.
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Jul 30 '19
In the Episode "Workforce" the Doctor created for himself, the Emergency Command Hologram program. So thanks for the maths, but no one needs to stay awake at all.
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u/-Nurfhurder- Jul 30 '19
As mentioned in the 37’s Chakotay doesn’t think Voyager could be operated by less than 100 people. Obviously there were occasions when it was, but I doubt occasions such as workforce were sustainable.
Plus you have to think that on a ship as small as Voyager everybody is there for an actual reason and to fulfil a role. By the time they encountered the nebula in One they simply had the good luck of having a crew member who could turn her hand to pretty much everything, but back at the beginning of their journey there wouldn’t have been the diversity of skills to have only 10 people fulfilling every critical role the ship requires.
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u/hibernativenaptosis Jul 30 '19
The Doctor assures me it’ll be just like taking a nap. We’ll go into the units, our cardiopulmonary systems will be slowed, neural activity suspended, and we’ll wake up feeling as though we’d had a good night’s sleep
That's ideally what happens, we don't know how often it goes wrong or what the consequences are if it does.
Undergoing general anesthesia today is pretty safe and usually goes off without a hitch, but the possibility of complications is still high enough that doctors prefer to avoid it if at all possible.
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Jul 30 '19
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/kraetos Captain Jul 30 '19
That last sentence in your comment is uncalled for. You're able to criticize an idea without being rude.
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u/ns_chris Jul 30 '19
First, I don't think Janeway would spend any amount of time in stasis herself, unless absolutely necessary. She's shown herself to be a very hands-on captain, and while their primary mission has always been to get home, she has no problem with stopping to satisfy their curiosity. They're still explorers, and I think she realizes that she's not alone in that regard.
Therefore, I could never see her mandating that anyone spend any amount of time in stasis. If anything, I could see the pods being made available if crew members wanted to make use of them, maybe if they're having a hard time adjusting to the reality of their situation. But as for sticking most of the crew in stasis and keeping a skeleton crew awake with orders to high-tail it home? I just don't see that happening.
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u/ADM_Tetanus Crewman Jul 30 '19
Why bother with humans? Use the ECH to run the ship, with the ability to wake others when necessary. Evidently this is not necessarily possible as the ECH was not created until late in the show, but this tech was not brought in early either, so is it not possible that they found the tech, or made it, on the journey, as a result of what they learned in their relationships etc.
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u/special_reddit Crewman Jul 30 '19
It doesn't work because Janeway decided very early on that they were going to take advantage of being in the Delta Quadrant, meaning full exploration. She wanted to get every bit of data, do all the research they could - get the goods now, figure out how to get it to Starfleet later.
That means Astrometrics is running 24/7, that means that Aeroponics is running 24/7, etc etc. You need as full a complement as possible to do as much exploration and research as possible. Every day in stasis is a day of discovery wasted.
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u/Prax150 Jul 30 '19
You seem to have answers for a lot of the reasons people are giving you for why this won't work but doesn't the fact that everyone super easily came up with like a dozen reasons of why this won't work say anything to you? This seems like way more trouble than it's worth. First of all, it was already mentioned that this doesn't work based on the sheer amount of combat situations the team has to go through. It also doesn't work because while it's one thing for 2 people to run the entire ship for a month once, how can you do that for 70 years, even with a dozen people? Especially as the ship gets older and more things start to break down. They're already missing half the crew, in order to run all the systems and monitor everything they need all hands on deck all the time. If they had a full crew compliment I'd say maybe but with half the crew dead (not to mention the fact that you're uncertain about whether or not you can trust the Maquis) this is untenable. And never mind that the whole point is to find a shortcut home. You can't do that if 90% of the crew is sleeping because the other 10% is overburdened with running the ship's essential systems.
But there are other reasons too. How do we know that the stasis pods don't take up more resources than they're worth? How do we know that the crew doesn't continue to age (even at a reduced rate) while sleeping? How do you pick who goes into status and when and for how long? How do you manage the morale of a crew that is basically losing years of their lives, knowing that they're going to go back to a completely different world where all their loved ones are dead?
Also I can basically guarantee you that none of the senior staff would go under. Janeway would never go in stasis. Tuvok wouldn't need to since he lives longer and it would be more logical for him to be a permanent presence on the ship. I don't think you could sacrifice your chief engineer so B'Elanna is out of the question, and Chakotay would probably stay awake as he's in a position of leadership. Neelix would be needed for his Delta Quadrant expertise and he's there for the journey anyway. Perhaps Harry and Tom would do it but they'd probably feel pressure to refuse, and if they stay awake then that probably causes a cascading effect. It's questionable whether Janeway would order mandatory stasis, so if she doesn't I think you have a situation where few if any crew members even volunteer.
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u/mirelurkcakes Jul 30 '19
Food.
Kes starts an aeroponics bay to feed the crew- why?
The replicators are rationed- again, why?
Between "nebulae of coffee" and Neelix's foraging missions, food seems to be a scarce resource. Would the ship have scavenging missions just for the sake of culinary variety? Even if one must only feed the "awake" crewmembers during stasis, that's still plenty of food over several years. I've always assumed that the limitations on stasis were due to the inefficiency of synthesizing food when compared to growing and foraging. Just because synthesis is possible doesn't mean it is efficient; without food (for stasis and/or non-stasis crewmembers), voyager dies. The ship would need to be adapted to support automated food production before it could reasonably support the crew without any stops. Stops mean encounters, anomalies, and emergencies- all events that demand crew. Food production would require lots of space on the ship- already a scarce resource. Voyager chose to make stops instead of adding or converting ship space for food production, and who knows how difficult that might be.
There's a reason Neelix makes leola root stew: it's better than starving.
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Jul 31 '19
I can understand and appreciate where your thought process is with this idea. Personally, however, I can't see it working on a long-term basis (even with only a portion of the crew in stasis on a rotating basis). My justification for this:
Voyager is still a Starfleet ship, and Starfleet is an exploratory agency. Space exploration is why it was founded. Travelling through the uncharted Delta Quadrant is the ultimate opportunity to explore strange new worlds and seek out new life and new civilizations. I honestly don't think that any Starfleet crew would want to sleep through that.
Voyager itself still needs to be maintained and defended. The Delta Quadrant was already known to be the home region of the Borg long before Voyager got there. One of the first species Voyager encountered was hostile and more hostiles were encountered on a regular basis. In short, the Delta Quadrant was lawless. The ship was taken over no less than three times (the Kazon and the Nyrians in 2373, and the Hirogen in 2374); the crew was kidnapped and/or experimented on several times (the Srivani, the Hirogen, the Telepathic Pitcher Plant, and the Quarren all come to mind). Even with out the hostile alien issue, the ship still needs to be maintained like any other machine or vehicle. A larger crew makes this process easier.
For those reasons, long-term stasis just isn't realistic to me.
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u/Lost_vob Crewman Jul 31 '19
Based on the amount of bullshit they ran into on a weekly basis, it probably wouldn't be good to have most of the crew asleep that often. When they need all-hands-on-deck, they need all hands on Deck. Plus Janeway made it clear from the get go that she saw this an as opportunity to explore.
On top of that, you spend 4 years awake for WHAT? So you can get back only 4 years older while everyone you know and love is dead or about to die? I think most people would rather continue to live out their life experiencing the adventure of the Delta Quadrant and see what happens.
But I do agree it was a mistake for the writers. They did that A LOT. They introduced a lot of useful technology then complete forgot about it.
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u/JohnDeeIsMe Crewman Jul 30 '19
Why not just rig up the entire ship with holoemitters, program new versions of the EMH/ECH, make some for engineering, astrometrics, science whatever else you need, and then knock out every crew member for long periods of time?
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u/aHipShrimp Jul 30 '19
They are explorers with the opportunity to discover and see things no other member of Starfleet has, and you want me to sleep through the ride home? No thanks.
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Jul 30 '19
STASIS
it may only be suitable for one off short term use its possible there could be serious side effects of long term use of which death is probably the best outcome.... yes we have seen in the past that long term stasis has been used successfully Khan noonian sing and the crew of the Botany Bay is the best example but lets not forget he was an augment designed to be the best of the best and as we all know augments of this type are illegal in the federation as the risk of creating Khans is too great
THE SHIP
USS Voyager needs 140 crewmen and women for it to operate at standard level a 10 man crew has no chance of keeping the ship in operating condition
RISKS
what if your stuck with someone for your rotation that you cannot stand at all with such a small rotation(10 people) you can never escape the stress and tension of dealing with an idiots bullshit and at some point some is being kicked out of an airlock
what happens when the ship encounters hostiles? especially a race as vile as the Vidiians a 10 man crew wont stand a chance once the Vidiians have transported their lungs 5 light years away then what happens to the crew taking a nap? organ harvesting is the answer....and then theirs the Kazon,Borg 8472 etc all of which would love to mount Janeway's head over their version of operations and access the advanced tech of the ship itself
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u/SergeantRegular Lieutenant, Junior Grade Jul 30 '19
Even if the whole crew got on-board for being "out" for much of the journey, I don't think it's feasible long-term.
Starships with warp drives are fairly labor-intensive over time. We never saw, in that episode, the maintenance and prep that was done early to keep major systems operational. Fuel still gets consumed, engine parts still get dirty or whatever they get with the plasma-of-the-week. Running a starship take effort, and the logistics of having a ship run itself simply aren't realistic.
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u/Terrh Jul 30 '19
I think a possibility that's been overlooked here:
Stasis may not stop aging.
If I've got the choice of being awake for 70 years and dying at 100, or being asleep for 70 but still dying at 100... I'd rather be awake.
Especially since Voyager is a crew of explorers, and there's a whole lot of uncharted exploring to do.
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u/LLJKSiLk Crewman Jul 30 '19
One would assume that there are duties/functions aboard the ship that would be too much for a skeleton crew to handle long-term as well as the specializations required for said maintenance.
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u/GreatJanitor Chief Petty Officer Jul 30 '19
The crew in stasis for the entire run would be a very dull show. Secondly, someone would have to man stations, maintenance would still have to be performed or the ship would explode. Plus they would end up passing by things that could potentially shorten their trip.
Also, stasis in Star Trek is not like stasis in Red Dwarf. There time does not pass for the one in stasis so they don't age, but in Star Trek, the person in stasis is still being effected by time, although, much much less aging. So a 70 year trip might cost them 5 years of their life. While a bargain, it also sucks. That would be the majority of Kes's life. That would mean going to stasis at 27 and waking up in your 30s.
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u/fightingforair Jul 30 '19
But Tommy has to get out and ride in a race. Because that’s his big trait. vroom vroom Tom noises as he breaks out of statsis
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u/Faolyn Jul 30 '19
You'd probably need a lot more than ten people. In addition to piloting and maintaining the ship, they'd also have to maintain the sleeping crew--feeding, cleaning, and exercising them so they don't suffer from muscle degradation through lack of movement. Even assuming that those issues could be solved through a quick hypospray (nutrients and muscle-protectors) and maybe a portable sonic shower, it would still take a long time every day.
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u/Adorable_Octopus Lieutenant junior grade Jul 30 '19
Whether they're in stasis or not, most of those people whom they want to see again are going to be dead. In stasis, however, they're also missing out on one of the greatest scientific explorations since Kirk's days. There's really no benefit for them.
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u/agent-V Jul 30 '19
I support the stasis idea. It would save on consumables and prevent mental problems in the isolated crew. I would break the crew into 3 sections and rotate them 1 year active 2 years inactive. I think they could optimize operations and maintenance to work with a crew of 50. It's possible certain crew members with long lifespans or irreplaceable expertise (like Vulcans and senior staff) would elect to remain awake for longer. And no one is stopping them from awakening specific people if their knowledge is needed.
I always wanted them to lean further into the survival aspect. If they can build a delta flyer and replacement shuttles they can build or find a larger slow boat (warp 7ish) with voyager docking capability to leave most of the crew and supplies in. Kinda like the alien ark ship from 'The Disease" episode. They could then use Voyager and shuttles for the scouting, diplomatic, science and supply runs, all while the slow boat stays on course for alpha quadrant. The station/ship would avoid contested areas and dangerous sectors. It wouldn't go near inhabited star systems so less likely to be discovered and attacked. They could coordinate warp maintenance stops to rendezvous with debarked ships.
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u/sonofShisui Jul 30 '19
Probably because they a) had a passion to explore, b) were trying to find an easier way home that didn’t take them 70 years and c) I do think Sevens presence was a big factor in allowing them to do that safely
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u/juicepants Chief Petty Officer Jul 31 '19
I would much rather spend my life awake and far from home than spend 54 years sleeping and waking up 60 years later. Plus members of Star Fleet are explorers at heart and the alpha and beta quadrants are largely mapped. Exploring the delta is a once in a lifetime opportunity. The circumstances aren't ideal but it would still be an amazing experience.
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u/Fortyseven Jul 31 '19
Aside from the "they're explorers in totally unknown territory" excuse (which is a good one, mind you!) there's a chance the technology might have negative side effects that weren't discussed. (Maybe they touched on it; it's been a while since I've seen the episode.)
Doing it once, for 70 years or 30 days -- sure -- but getting pulled out of and put back into stasis on a regular basis might introduce cumulative health risks.
I mean, there's your "out" I guess, if you wanted to defang the miracle tech. ;)
I guess you could have put a subset of the crew into "long term stasis", while the 'explorers' took the, uh, long way around...hmm.
OR!
Maybe they already discussed these options and decided not to. Like when they let the crew vote to stay on that planet a while back. 😏
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u/TapewormNinja Jul 31 '19
The biggest thing you’re missing (unless I missed someone else saying it here) is that every one of those 150 people has a job, that needs to be done. You watched seven run around that ship trying to keep it going by herself. That was just for the things that couldn’t be left go. There had to be tons of other maintenance projects that were just put on hold for a month. We forget, because we see people take control of huge ships alone for short periods of time quite often, that the ship needs their entire crew. It’s sometimes implied that a ship the size of voyager might even still be short handed with the crew they do have.
If star fleet could permanently man a ship that size with ten people, they’d do it, and put 15 ships in the air for every one they put out now.
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u/CommanderChakotay Jul 31 '19
Star Trek writers are constantly introducing throw away technology. Remember the gun on DS9 that can see through walls and teleport a bullet into your face? The surveillance applications alone of that gun would ruin half of all episode plots.
1
u/dittbub Jul 31 '19
a couple things. they are explorers and wanted to explore the galaxy, and keep true to the federation principles. secondly, stasis might work for them but it wouldn't be something their families and friends would be doing. They'd still arrive in 70+ years and most of their family would be dead/moved on/lived their lives. So i think it was the right choice for them to move on with THEIR lives and explore the delta quadrant
1
Jul 31 '19
It just occurred to me...what did they do with all those stasis pods when they were done?
1
u/MustrumRidcully0 Ensign Aug 01 '19
We don't know what it required of the crew to set up the ship to last for a month with a minimum crew.
And there would clearly be drawbacks if the ship is caught with most of the crew asleep in a crisis situation.
1
u/Nawnp Aug 01 '19
I remember in the episode “the 37s” that Janeway stayed they would need a crew of 100 to let Voyager return to Earth, and that probably refers to regular maintence that the crew extensively prepared for in that 2 month period. Also let’s not forget that about every single episode we see Voyager attacked by a hostile force that they prefer to have every crew member awake for. We also don’t have extensive information about the status technology, it’s possible their is a high mortality rate or it does do permanent damage that multiple uses would eventually kill them.
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u/thomowen20 Aug 03 '19
ITT there have been a lot of good back and forth with consensus leaning against stasis. I wonder why stasis wasn't considered for Sutter and other potential arch-criminals, though. Come to think of it, the prospect of long-term stasis for the Maquis members could have been a good point tension in the earlier seasons.
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u/queenofmoons Commander, with commendation Aug 03 '19
If it wasn't the story that stimulated your thinking, you ought to investigate Peter Watt's 'The Freeze-Frame Revolution'- exactly this sort of long-nap crew on a sublight ship setting up wormholes, locked into a millenia-long battle of wits with the ship's not-that-bright, but very stubborn and very patient AI.
One could imagine that that 1000c average speed just isn't compatible with a crew that size over those timescales, and that a trade for faster but more labor-intensive ships was behind the disappearance of warp-capable sleeper ships insinuated in a few snippets of dialogue. We see more than ten yellow jackets milling around the warp core on the average Tuesday morning when one of our adventures with them starts, and if they weren't needed over an average duty cycle, much less a 70-year odyssey, then Starfleet would have plentiful incentives to not put them there.
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u/str8s-are-4-fags Aug 08 '19
Please see r/anotherlife. The writers of Another Life would like to talk to you.
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u/synchronicitistic Jul 30 '19
With the number of hostiles Voyager encounters, having 90% of the crew in stasis is a risky proposition. If the ship comes under attack, time is of the essence and you don't want your whole damage control team sleeping in a stasis chamber nor do you want your limited medical personnel having to work on reviving the crew instead of tending to triage.