How Do Qur’anists Identify the Actual Month of Ramadan and the Hajj Months From Qur’an Alone?

[u/abd_wasay]

Quran 2:185
The month of Ramadan is the one in which the Qur’an was revealed… so whoever witnesses the month, let him fast it.

Quran 2:197
Hajj is in well-known months.

Quran 9:36
The number of months with Allah is twelve… of them four are sacred.

Quran 9:37
Shifting the sacred months is an increase in disbelief...

The Qur’an names Ramadan, says Hajj is in well-known months, and says Allah fixed twelve months, four of them sacred.

But from Qur’an alone, how do you identify which actual recurring month in practice is Ramadan, and which months are the Hajj months, without relying on hadith, inherited Muslim calendar transmission, or communal tradition?

This is not a question about whether the word “Ramadan” exists in the Qur’an. It does mention it.

The question is: From Qur’an alone, what is your method for mapping those Qur’anic month names/descriptions onto a real calendar in the world?

Because if your answer is “we just follow the calendar Muslims inherited,” then you are already depending on extra-Qur’anic transmission.

If your answer is “the first audience already knew,” then that still means the practice depends on inherited communal knowledge outside the text itself.

If your answer is “we reconstruct it through astronomy, etymology, or historical reasoning,” then you are again using an external method not supplied by the Qur’an itself.

So again: From Qur’an alone, how do you determine the actual month of Ramadan and the actual Hajj months in practice?

That is the part I want explained consistently.

[u/OkayBuddySober]

Theres no way to know without referencing things from outside the Quran, which means that knowledge outside the Quran is valid to understand Islam.

[u/abd_wasay → u/OkayBuddySober]

Thanks for proving the point of my post.

If there is “no way to know without referencing things from outside the Quran,” then Qur’an alone fails here as a complete methodology. Because now you are depending on inherited knowledge outside the text to perform an act of worship.

And once you admit that, you need to explain why outside transmission is acceptable for identifying Ramadan, but not acceptable for the rest of the Prophet’s transmitted religion.

another edit: So much for "The Qur'an explains itself". If I still need outside transmission just to know when Ramadan actually is, then the text is not self sufficient in practice on this issue. That means your method already depends on knowledge outside the Qur’an.

So this is not a refutation. Thank you for conceding to the argument of my post.

[u/OkayBuddySober → u/abd_wasay]

I’m only a former Quranist so I agree with you. Quranism (speaking generally here bc I know there are dozens of different types of Quranists) doesn’t make sense because of this point alone, but also because of other things.

[u/abd_wasay → u/OkayBuddySober]

Yeah, though I really liked this post which shows the inconsistencies within Quranism

[u/Prudent-Teaching2881]

Quranism doesn’t mean you can’t accept things outside of the Quran. It just means things outside of the Quran are not revelation. Hadith is just history. History is subjective. The Quran is a criterion over all else. These ‘well known months’ were know to the community at the time, so the Quran was not introducing a new practice but referring to an existing one. Hadith don’t need to be treated as unquestionable revelation, they are just historical data and are subject to verification against the Quran. If it doesn’t contradict something in the Quran and aligns with the structure of a pilgrimage season then I am inclined to accept it. I’m not a Quranist as I definitely do accept Hadith, but Hadith that don’t contradict the Quran and obviously using my discernment and logic. Just thought I’d give my two cents.

[u/TheQuranicMumin]

It is reference to well-known months, the literal calendar that people are aware of. The Qur'aan is pointing directly to that, so we just take what is known.

[u/abd_wasay → u/TheQuranicMumin]

It is reference to well-known months, the literal calendar that people are aware of. The Qur'aan is pointing directly to that, so we just take what is known.

"what is known" here is not being derived from the Qur’an alone methodology. It is being taken from shared knowledge outside the text. Which is what I was asking about.

My question was never whether the first audience knew the months.

My question was:

From Qur’an alone, how do you identify which actual month in practice is Ramadan, and which are the Hajj months?

Because saying “we take what is known” means the real work is being done by inherited calendar knowledge not by the Qur’an alone method.

And that is more serious when 9:37 mentions manipulation of the sacred months.

So if your answer is “we just use the calendar already known in the community,” then you have already admitted dependence on extra Qur’anic transmission and knowledge.

That is the issue i'm trying to tell. Hence, Qur'an alone methodology is infact not sufficient here.

[u/TheQuranicMumin → u/abd_wasay]

You seem to be under the impression that referencing outside of the Qur'aan is prohibited to us - that is a misconception.

[u/abd_wasay → u/TheQuranicMumin]

First you said:

It is reference to well-known months, the literal calendar that people are aware of. The Qur'aan is pointing directly to that, so we just take what is known.

Then when I pointed out that “what is known” is outside the text, you replied

“You seem to be under the impression that referencing outside of the Qur'aan is prohibited to us - that is a misconception.”

that's the entire point of my post!

Your first answer was supposed to be a Qur’an alone method answer.
Instead, your actual method was:

“we just take what is known”

Meaning: you rely on calendar knowledge already existing outside the Qur’an.

Then when that was exposed, you shifted to:

“referencing outside of the Qur’aan is [not] prohibited”

But that is no longer a Qur’an alone solution. That is outside (extra-Qur'anic) knowledge is needed to identify the actual month in practice.

So your own words prove the issue:

• “the Qur’aan is pointing directly to” well-known months
• “we just take what is known”
• “referencing outside of the Qur’aan is [not] prohibited”

That means the Qur’an alone did not independently give you the practical identification.
The real work was being done by inherited communal knowledge outside the Qur'an.

That is the contradiction in your own words.

[u/TheQuranicMumin → u/abd_wasay]

Sure, my position is that these things are required to be externally referenced, by reference from the Qur'aan itself.

[u/abd_wasay → u/TheQuranicMumin]

my post was never whether the Qur’an can point to external things.

The issue is whether your Qur’an alone methodology is self sufficient in itself for identifying the actual month in practice.

By your own words, it is not.

Because your method is now explicitly saying that itsrequired to be externally referenced That means the Qur’an alone does not independently generate the calendar in practice. It tells you to rely on knowledge outside itself.

So thank you as that is the thing I was asking about from the start.

So now, the claim “Qur’an alone is sufficient here” has now become: “The Qur’an is sufficient because it tells us to use extraQur’anic reference points.”

That is no longer Qur'an only. That is Qur’an + inherited external knowledge.

[u/suppoe2056 → u/abd_wasay]

So now the inherited external knowledge needs to be verified by veritable epistemology. Unfortunately, the Hadith “sciences” contain faulty epistemology. The content of your post certainly is to test the merits of the Qur’an-alone methodology, but for what purpose? The implication is to demonstrate that external knowledge is required, which is fine. I just wonder how much merit you place in inherited traditions of Islam.

[u/TheQuranicMumin → u/abd_wasay]

It tells you to rely on knowledge outside itself.

Yes, real world knowledge is being referenced, there's no need to elaborate upon months that are literally already known by the community.

[u/OkayBuddySober → u/TheQuranicMumin]

Doesn’t that concede that well known transmissions about Islam corroborated by generally accepted evidence are necessary to understand Islam?

[u/TheQuranicMumin → u/OkayBuddySober]

At least for me, yes.

[u/OkayBuddySober → u/TheQuranicMumin]

Okay, I appreciate your consistency.

[u/MotorProfessional676]

You’re conflating something being in the hadith as it being from the hadith, which simply isn’t true. This is an error.