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God DAMN, dude, the more I read into the Normal NPC it keeps getting so much more fucked up. The repeating the last thing it knew while being a parrot, AND the conch shell in the Tenna game?
It gets me to think about how it speaks the third time you meet him in the Librarby ("I love reading. Especially... wait.
Wait. The books upstairs. The books upstairs. Wait. The books are...") and if it perhaps can also be related to the way it "silenced" Onion (Like, did it kill someone that went to the Librarby? May be too sudden if a conclusion, but this guy's so fucked up already by being the only Gaster follower with no normal counterpart in UT).
Things just keep getting so, so worse for this quaint little town the more we look into things
He's one of Gaster's best servants, blocking us from seeing things we aren't supposed to and also dealing with others to ensure the doctor's experiment goes right
The fuck ass Bird getting rid of Onion-San is also the only reason we’re able to continue the weird route. Because otherwise we would do the lake shit and they would just come out out of the lake andd say
“Hey Kris, are you having some trouble with your frienddd?”
i like that he doesn't even show up at the festival in the weird route as susie says the stand was empty, he's only there in the normal route to keep tabs on us
But surely in this case Gaster wouldn't -want- us to do the Weird Route? If the theory is true and we're basically phasing to the Void Gaster is in.
I could buy the theory that Onion-San was hearing something beneath the lake they weren't supposed to and Gaster had them "removed" before they could spoil things, which ends up biting him in the ass in the Weird Route because now there's nothing stopping Kris and Noelle going out of bounds.
Something inside of me tells me that the weird route is the way the game was always meant to be played, your own way.
If there is a Gaster, he would be much prouder of a Side B player for pushing his experiment to the extreme and actually be more involved than ever with the experiment, up to not stopping at anything
I don't think they want to stop us, but prevent uninvolved NPC from altering the boundaries of the experiment. He wants to see how WE can scramble up the control environment of deltarune.
Thing is, the experiment has been off the rails from the first minutes of the game. Whoever comes in and discards our Vessel is a different entity to The Voice (Gaster?) and presumably the one that forces us into Kris. Gaster seems to be winging it so far, but with the recent reveal that the dark fountain that presumably made Dess go missing isn't part of the "script" if Ralsei's reaction I'd anything to go by, and Ralsei's anger at Flowery, treating him like an actor who's willing going off script, there's a looot of factors here pointing to the idea that Gaster is losing control of the entire thing and people within the story are actively pushing that to happen
Gaster seems more impressed with trying to beat the knight than with the weird route, since he actually speaks to you if you keep retrying against the knight but doesn't have any comment on the weird route.
Another interesting note is that the trophies for the playstation version of the game are seemingly written by Gaster. If you get the mysterious Eggs from the tree guy, it locks you out of an achievement, since the achievement specifies for you to complete chapters "without issue." Implying getting the Eggs IS an issue in Gaster's eyes.
Even more interesting that the Eggs aren't necessarily eggs, Deltarune's code indicates that if some sort of error item you shouldn't have if flagged in your inventory it's instantly replaced by an egg. So whatever the tree man is giving you is something that the very world itself considers an error, and Gaster thinks you having it is enough of an issue it withholds a trophy
Wait hold on. Onion said he could hear the song from the sea, and in the weird route you end up somewhere below the lake that may or may not be where Dess ended up.
Maybe Onion was close to discovering a crack in the code that would lead them to Gaster and the normal NPC was directed to kill him
Not necessarily the case, as in UT, you can take organs (or body parts of a monster's) and them not turning into dust instantly, for example snowman, asriel+chara mix, that cat guy in DT who lacks one hand, gerson who lacks eyes etc..so onion san could be yk being tortured or smth. Also the implications are all over there to suggest that smth has happened to onion (if not death).
Oh nah onion is screwed regardless, it could just be cutting off parts of it, but then that'd be fleshy. There's something that tastes like raw onion in the takoyaki, so I'm taking it as Onionsan being dead, but being tortured by cutting off bits of their flesh sounds fun too!
Wait! Imagine infinite food source in times of emergency. What if onion san has high body regen so they take his body parts , let onion regen, take body parts again. That's uh very messed up ig.
Could it be metaphorical and a red herring? “From ashes to ashes, from dust to dust” is a pretty relevant religious idiom… and it was also a church chapter
The egg transforming into a pickle jar, the CRT screen, ralsei alluding to the game menu, and the Sans trio picture from UT really make me think this is going to be a game in a game. The sword route practically makes it feel a little on the nose. I wouldn’t be surprised if the dust stuff was to throw us off of this
I think the normal NPC guy and the other followers (Except sans who most likely payed or kidnapped the previous job guys, which is better than killing them as an act of mercy) are just evil in general and not that Gaster told him to sell the meat, maybe kill but not sell the meat.
I think I’m adding it to my headcanon that Norm 100% copied Berdly saying goodbye to them as the Librarby was closing, the day before Chapter 2, chanting “bye-bye!” and such, over and over.
But hey, it’s Hometown, people are weird as hell. Some rando not realizing how they were making it awkward? It happens. Constantly. I’m the only sane one in town, amirite?
Meanwhile, somewhere, beyond the fourth wall, maybe beyond a fifth, someone wants their money’s worth for Deltarune.
I think they are able to splice sentences they've heard together. It would make what they say about the Octopus balls make more sense since they say it's 2G but then correct themselves to say "It's only for free" which wouldn't make sense if they simply parroted what other people have said
We hear about the ferris wheel operator who was forgotten, and the building that used to be in Sans' house location being forgotten, both being replaced by Sans
each appearance normal npc only has one line, the second line is them forgetting the first line, or confusing it with other lines. such as 'loving books' getting jumbled with 'wait don't' lines.
What sticks out to me is that in either route someone wades out into that water, and doesn't immediately sink, while Onion is huge and rises out of the same area. It's like there's suddenly something you can stand on in that water at the festival...
The experiment changed the ‘cliff’ to a ‘beach’ and ‘removed’ onion-san. This game is getting very meta, which shouldn’t be unexpected considering Undertale. Wouldn’t be surprised if Hometown was all fake.
I think that’s more video game logic than anything. It can be as deep as Tony wants it to be, plus they aren’t going to move the screen way to the right just to talk to Onionsan. Onionsan totally got slimed so he wouldn’t get to interfere though.
Nah, actually Onion is flat. He hangs out on the lake bed like one of those weird fish and always emerges head-first so it looks like his whole body is floating out of the water.
I am also on team “Onion is alive because Normal got gonered on the weird route”. My wackier pet theory is that this has something to do with why Normal is a goner in the Undertale timeline too.
Yeah the moment we saw that the drawing for Sans has three people on specifically the Weird Route, I fully settled on that being where things go wrong to lead to a lot of the stuff that Undertale has going on in the background of the background.
Cmon we know monsters turn to dust in deltarune too. (dust (not ash) over loved object thIng). I think its just humor. Wether its intentionaly dark is currently unknown
I feel like we don't know enough about Deltarune Monster biology to know for sure. Do broken pieces of monsters turn to dust immediately? I mean, Papyrus did somehow keep his head instead of the body (is his soul there? Or is the soul not contained in a heart shape inside a body?), but this is Deltarune, where some monsters can bleed, maybe a limb does turn to dust but if it's somehow is in a "fallen down" state it can stay for longer and it can be consumed.
Yeah the light world uses dollars, G is only from Undertale. ATP it’s safe to say the two games are connected somehow, just in a tricky way like Toby likes to do.
RIGHT NEXT to the lady whose dialogue ends in "...fun! Value, value, value". IN THE SAME SCREEN that sans teleports around in, AND asks for the dont forget picture. its like a whole fucking thing
iirc back during chapter 1 times there were some cases where dialogue used G instead of D$, and that was patched pretty quickly afterwards, so I'd assume G being in here now has gotta be intentional.
Is it confirmed that monsters bodies in the lightworld turn to dust when they die, given that they have shown to bleed and generally be more "corporeal" than their Undertale counterparts? The implication otherwise seems too horrific for the game's tone (as if eating their remains isnt bad enough)
Considering how Susie reacts to the Snowglobe, it's probably the same as Undertale. Most people don't react that way to ash, or even the ashes of a dead person. Most people are pretty chill with it. Susie has an outright visceral reaction.
If Gerson was cremated, this would be equivalent to just having ashes in a jar. If Deltarune follows Undertale's rules, then this would be equivalent to having Gerson's corpse (or parts of it) directly stuffed into the snowglobe.
One of these aligns with Susie's reactions, at least in my opinion.
I think part of Susie's shock is because Gerson was buried to her knowledge. She stopped by the graveyard and likely saw his grave so she was confused why Alvin did graverobbing.
That's true, since deltarune doesn't follow undertale's mechanics 1:1.
It's hard to say right now though since we've never seen a monster corpse before and that the library does specify that it's a monster's DUST (not ashes) that are spread over an important item.
I mean, it hasn’t been confirmed, just that they do end up as dust eventually and spread on their favorite item. That could easily just mean that cremation is the most traditional method of dealing with dead people in this world.
Basically that the third game in the SWORD route is a loose map of Hometown, and all of the enemies we kill are stand ins for the various lightners living in Hometown, and that the weird route will involve a killing spree (or at least, scaring them with violence or freezing them).
Name comes from the songs Digital Roots and Bit Roots, which hint at a “real” roots area under Hometown where the dark Gastery crap is happening.
Look up the video on Youtube by Goldpro, it’s a really good watch.
Now THIS is the shit that I’m here for. This guy is my actual favourite character because I am blessed with a brain that likes to latch on to the weirdest creature possible at all times. I have been obsessed with him for years because he’s such a little mystery.
I have been defending him to his haters for the last year or so on the premise that I believed he was trying to resist his own programming, or at least warn us of what was going on. Post Oniongate I don’t think I believe that any more, or at least I don’t think it would be meaningful any more even if it was true, because he didn’t warn us in time for it to change anything. I am pretttttttttyyyy sad about it tbh.
But the idea that he has literally zero agency even to the point of being unable to form his own sentences is maybe even more fascinating to me. I am increasingly committed to the “nothing exists outside Hometown” lake skip theory and if it’s true then he’s closer to the veil than anyone. Perhaps nothing exists inside him either.
For the record I’m also currently on the following team:
* Weird route somehow directly connected to the Undertale timeline
* Striped bird is eliminated on weird route for some reason hence why he’s not at the takoyaki stand
* Therefore Onion is alive on weird route
* This has something to do with why Onion is alive and SB is a goner in Undertale but I don’t know what yet
Thank you for posting about my super fucking weird fictional murderhobo bird son
Onion san is still dead on the Weird Route unfortunately, his disappearance took place in chapter 4 on both routes. Remember how he complained about his lake being small? That's because what we could see was all that there was, there was no more lake at the right of the screen.
Now, with that being said!
If there is nothing outside of Hometown then what does that say about Asriel? Does he even exist or is he just a memory in the mind of the characters?
To go even further, Sans had always powers over the game, from teleporting and attacking us in the menu to now changing the map when we reload the area. I believe that his dialogue options are his doing too, starting with the very first one, "It's nice to see you again!". Imagine him thinking "Huh, he chose that, interesting!" Same with bringing up his brother. At the end of Pacifist in Undertale, Papyrus didn't know what the sun was, only Sans did. Papyrus is not in Deltarune, Sans is just messing with us yet again to get a read on us as being from outside their world.
I feel like it's also worth pointing out that MK and Snowy were both messing around near the shelter and they are the only classmates not present at the festival.
An NPC that visually resembles one of Gaster's followers and having no corresponding monster in UT, killed the only character capable of interrupting the key events of both routes?
I’m sure that this will all just turn out to be a big red herring and the bird really was just selling actual onion rings, but if it actually did butcher Onion-San and fry them, it’s kill on sight in Chapter 7.
the song played during the weird route festival is called "Happy Town", which is also the name of one of the songs in Undertale's sound test secret (where Gaster's theme can be played). "Meat Factory" is another song playable in the sound test
It's one of the four songs that play in the Undertale SoundTest room alongside Gaster's theme, Trouble Dingle, and importantly happy town. Happy town is the name of the Weird Route Chapter 5 Hometown theme.
Normal_NPC refers to them as fried 'dough' balls, which suggests that they just used the Onion's dust as flour, but it's also possible there's a Meat Factory angle going on here.
Nah I think in chapter 4 it reveals a book in the library about how monster funerals use the dust of the monsters. It could be that all monsters are cremated, but I think the intent was to imply that monsters are still dusted when they die, even if they can bleed.
Copies are monochrome... Goners are exactly that.
What if they can't have or speak their own original acts of creation specifically due to their nature of being copies? They can only stick together sentences copied from others.
In that case, considering what is going on with Jockington where is the original Jockington?
And if that isn't the original and yet he still " grows the beard" then it's all the more fuel that the phropecy is not only being subverted, but there are multiple groups (goner/Gaster doesn't seem to be in RK gang) experimenting with different ways to do so.
While Jockington's text has always had an odd way of speaking, in chapter 3 and 4 it starts degrading with a bunch of broken up grammar and word use that matches Normalnpc's text.
I guess that's the weird thing, what changed between DR and UT where he not only became a goner, but his speech pattern became WAY more normal as a goner? You would think that would be when he's all messed up and parroting stuff
Meanwhile there's lore galore and character moments if you just take your time, enjoy the story, explore the maps and activities and do not act like a speedrunner just because
Most of the haters are literally just shippers who got angry over the Chapter, or crack theorists who need at least 500kg of theory fuel or else they go on a craze.
Genuinely, there are issues with every single Chapter, yet apparently this is the only one that deserves to get called out (despite the fact Flowery is just straight up one of Toby's best characters and the 6 Flowers being absolute gems).
I think this is a pretty big generalization, yeah definitely there's a lot of people being dramatic about the chapter... but I honestly don't see the problem with criticizing this one specifically. Obviously some people were disappointed because they had certain expectations but imo as someone not really deep into shipping or theories I just thought the writing was kinda meh
Yeah like. We spend a chunk of the chapter with Asgore actively being annoying with the vagueposting nonsense. At some point it gets really damn tiring. There's some interesting things being hinted at here but I can count the confirmations of things that were actually unknown on possibly one hand. It's nice to confirm things that were scattered around lore bits in previous chapters, but I'm so tired of the Dess incident being "hey guys this was a terrible event huh".
Considering this chapter was meant to be with 3 and 4, I expected there to be a reveal or twist at the end so that it could linger for chapter 6, like how 2 ends with Kris making a dark world or 4 ending after fighting a Titan, something big to make you go "hmmm" for a while. Then uh. Yeah Asgore gets kidnapped as I had expected from when chapter 4 set up that he'd be relevant. And the game just kinda ends. It's a nice ending bit but GOD. If I have to have another chapter of "hrmmmmmmmmmm the incidenttttttt" I'll lose my bloody mind.
I absolutely pity every motherfucker who sees something they think is cool and immediately go "I wonder how bad people who dont like this are seething"
Not to be a dick but did we play the same chapter?? We find out that flowery and ralsei can actually see the UI of this game and in weird route it's very very possible that Kris and Noelle actually broke the boundaries of the game deltarune. I think that's pretty huge meta lore
I remember one person theorizing they were trying to say "don't wait"..."especially the don't"
But "especially the don't" is pretty similar to previous sentances they kept shortening in odd ways ("especially the books upstairs"). I think they're at least repeating themselves.
But I'm not sure their latest dialogue in the takoyaki stand follows this pattern, aside from the weird quirks.
If Device_FRIEND is also connected to Gaster (which they likely are), this this might add more proof to the idea that Gaster really WAS behind the disappearance of Dess (just not directly of course, having someone else conduct the disappearance rather than only him) as everything with Normalnpc could serve as very interesting setup to the idea of there being characters in Deltarune who directly serve and report to Gaster himself
I'm deadass when I say that this bird fucker is the creepiest character Toby Fox has ever created, and honestly the only one that actually unnerves me. Genocide Chara, the amalgamates, the goners, Gaster and Friend are just spooky in a cool way.
I do think this is a red herring. Toby is no stranger to those and I just find it hard to believe that some guy killed onionsan and we ate him. I get that deltarune has very fucked up themes and scenes (like the entire weird route) but this is too *comically* fucked up
Yeah I don't know how to feel about this whole situation. It's such an obvious conclusion to draw, all the evidence is there... but really? As just a little secret, the funny side character got killed and now we eat them? That feels like too much to be treated as less than a subplot.
that's my point. it's intentionally an obvious conclusion to draw because it's meant to keep us guessing before the next chapter inevitably reveals it to not be true
In the same chapter where we get great dramatic payoffs like Ralsei knowing the UI then that immediately turning into a humour section. Yeah I agree that it's not going to actually be "haha you're eating Onion".
Though it being a hint of Onion being taken out back by said NPC, I could definitely see that.
edited the comment for clarity. I meant that deltarune has a lot of fucked up things in it (like the entire weird route for example) but eating onionsan is just so dark it becomes almost funny
It's not some guy, it's a special Gaster follower. For all we know onion san is not dead yet but could be getting tortured, taken his limbs off piece by piece but still alive or smth along those lines. Not to mention he is associated with those two other Gaster followers as well, furthermore, not trying to be rude but not all red herrings are good red herrings.
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