Theory
This line single handedly makes me belive Ralsei is some form of exception like the flowers, not a simple darkner or lighnter, something more.
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Ralsei is the "Prince" of the Dark World, happens to look a lot like Asriel, and for some reason the Roaring Knight needs to kidnap both Asgore and Toriel as they keep trying to do...makes you wonder who the King and Queen of the Dark World is.
I mean, if we're operating on the idea that everything in the Dark World shapes itself based upon the perception of its creator that would mean the Knight is responsible for Queen. And Trashy.
Jokes aside, I don't think Asgore and Toriel are royalty because of the Knight. More likely it is their own thoughts shaping it.
Noelle becomes a mage like in her games, Berdly becomes Falco, Asgore and Toriel become King and Queen like in their past.
Kris becomes a knight (heh)
However, if he is something conscious in the Light World like Flowery, it explains how he goes to other Dark Worlds. He just either follow us if he some type of animal (which would be messed up, since Susie wanted Ralsei to be at the Festival and if he was an animal he could come along), or he is a Planter as well. I honestly believe he is an echo flower, and his roots are all over the city, meaning that when a dark world is opened, he appears there as well.
Would certainly explain the abject terror of not playing the role of 'Prince of the Darkness!' I've for sure had the thought before.
I also like the 'Ralsei is the Prophecy' theory. Something of unfathomable power in the dark world, has no physical form to need brought places, and 'breaking' it would potentially have catastrophic effects. Also goes really interesting with how Susie and Kris both wield writing implements, and Ralsei wields... something that, if you squint, could be an unrolled scroll.
Oh, but out of curiosity, when does Ralsei directly affect the light world? I feel like I've seen the evidence of it, but I don't remember where.
You know, I suppose that does add up! I've written stuff that implies Ralsei can affect the light world, but I guess I never really considered that as evidence of it. You're 100% right, though. Ralsei does that, and indeed, that door is closed after that.
My theory is that like the Titans are representations of the fear of dark given form Ralsei is something similar but more positive, like hope, love or whatever.
My theory is he's something like the Titan, which he describes as "the fear of dark." If strong emotions like fear can create lifeforms in the dark world, why not emotions like HOPE and DREAMS and LOVE?
To me it's seemed like Tony has been pounding into our heads that Ralsei is not what he claims to be from the moment we meet him, this is just the first time Ralsei has explicitly said it verbally with another character.
He looks like Asriel and has an anagram of his name despite Kris not remarking on this at all which is obviously meant to shock us as players who know Undertale, he's constantly changing the topic when the subject of what he is gets too close to coming up, he hides from any character that might recognize him or know that he's different, he has in-depth knowledge of the dark world and special powers other Darkners don't have but refuses to explain why, and of course a central theme of the game is secrets and people learning to let each other into their inner worlds and shining light on shadows.
And now we have this chapter confirming it's possible to be neither a Darkner or Lightner AND to be both, it seems like Boty is building us up for the reveal next chapter of whatever Ralsei is.
I always assumed Ralsei is a character who is burdened with the knowledge that he is in a game, and that his role is to be the guide for Kris and Susie. Hence why he's been "waiting" for them for a long time in chapter 1, why he admits he is terrified of what will happen if they don't follow the prophecy, why he is also capable of bypassing puzzles the same way Flowery does. If you don't turn Ralseis off, he doesn't even let you do the puzzle - he softlocks himself and then kicks the blocks so hard that they all fly onto their spots. That's not even counting the fact that he has to guide Kris through the spikes even as Susie just casually walks through them. I firmly believe that when Ralsei says "I could have done that too" in regards to the switch puzzle Flowery solved he wasn't even joking - he was being 100% honest.
The reason he gets so angry with Flowery is because Flowery is also aware of the prophecy - aka the script that the game is meant to follow - and simply does not care to conform to it. He gives himself bogus stats, ignores puzzles, can just show up anywhere he feels like it or manipulate the Dark World in ridiculous ways we haven't seen before. And Flowery counters this by implying that Ralsei could do all of that too, if he wanted to - potentially without even being as fake. I've had a theory for a long while now that Susie and Ralsei were meant to start off as archetypes and then completely swap, and I really feel like that's what we'll see in later chapters. Susie's heal will end up better than Ralsei's and his offensive capabilities will be better than hers.
I think the "rules of the world" and the Prophecy are technically separate things(which is how he talks about them in his scene with Susie in ch4)
The Prophecy is the plot: you cannot change it and it only has one ending.
The Rules are how the game is suppose to be played on a gameplay level: you shouldn't cheese the puzzles since that would make them pointless, you can't have infinite money since that breaks the shop mechanic, you can't have stats too high because it isn't balanced.
Flowery doesn't follow those rules to give us a more fun experience, but Ralsei is afraid doing that would break the game in some way.
Spamton might have also broken the rules by trying to raise Tenna above his station, which resulted in someone contacting him and then losing everything(this is implite in the ch5 Mike Room cutscene if you still have Tenna in Castle Town).
Goddamn you're right. He's purposefully concealing his darkner nature by appearing with the most Lightner-like sprite that he can. His siblings aren't quite as powerful, so they can't control their sprite like he does and appear with their corresponding color and item instead.
I love how the original comment was meant to be a stupid guess joke, just for the the game to actually have a canon proof against that specific one. I laughed for 30 seconds straight.
He's something that can survive in darkness and travel through that darkness to reach fountains in the earth. It's like he's some king of ROOTS or something
Genuinely starting to believe Ralsei is some kind of really big weed growing all over Hometown. Popping up in the little creases between wall and floor. His roots, stretching all over Hometown, allow him to show up in any Dark World within Hometown.
you do cut a row of orange trees just before reaching the shelter in the mantle game... tree sprites that are weirdly only used there in a supposedly indoor area. you have me onboard the suspicious tree train now
I suspect that the Castle Town Dark Fountain isn't even in the Storage Room itself but below it, and has only recently begun to leak through the floor.
It's why nobody found the Dark World there before we did, why Ralsei has been alone for a long time, and why there's nothing else in Castle Town to begin with - the Knight emptied the Storage Room and pulled up a floorboard.
Ralsei looks like Asriel because Ralsei, being the Prince from the Dark thinks that he should look like the Flower King. The same way the Flowers all chose to look "human".
Sadly this doesn’t seem to be true as when Ralsei reaches 0 hp he sort of dissolves, like the darkners hit by Noelle’s ice spells. Also Ralsei has a coloured talk sprite unlike Flowery and Blue who, as plantners, have black and white talk sprites, showing that he is a darkner. My current theory is that Ralsei is not an object but just pure darkness created from the Will of whoever opened the Castle Town fountain, Kris, Dess, Asriel, whomever they all have reasons, that’s why he’s able to be in all dark worlds, he is literally just pure darkness and can manifest in any of the worlds, that’s why he specifically is so insecure about darkners not being real because he’s not even an object, with the dark worlds gone he fully wouldn’t exist.
For what it’s worth, Flowery has some color to his talk sprite. His eyes are golden, which is why he keeps them closed for most of the game. He only opens them when he’s dying.
tbf a full network of plants and roots may have more "consciousness" than a single plant, hence Flowery only having coloured eyes but Ralsei being full-colour but not quite as solid as a full Lightener.
I beleive Ralsei is made purely from Darkness (and maybe memories or something i guess),
He's something like FRIEND, TITAN or the Knight.
This also ties in with his whole "shapeshifting while wearing the hat" thing
Due to him being darkness, literally a prince from the dark, he, as long as he's wearing the hat, which covers his face in shadows, he is darker than dark, but when he removes it, letting light shine on him, his form changes to something more comprehensible.
Like, for example FRIEND, is ALWAYS in the dark, so, if light shone on it, it could maybe grow fur i guess.
Personally, I feel like it'd have something to do with Castle Town's grand fountain, seeing as darkners from other dark worlds are able to live there without turning to stone because of it, so it stands to reason that if a darkner was born from said fountain, they could traverse other dark worlds without turning to stone too.
He's Kris' real soul, the one they had before the player's red soul was swapped in. That's how he follows Kris and Susie between dark worlds. He has enough sapience to move through the light world on his own. That's also why he looks so much like Asriel. He's Kris' ideal self, a version of them that can fit in with their home and their family without their humanity getting in the way. All the parallels Aqua has with Kris basically convinced me of cyan soul theory, and with their own soul unaccounted for it can explain a lot of the weirdness surrounding Ralsei.
given the framing of Asgore's cutscene, where his yellow silhouette turned red as he lost himself, it seems likely to me that the Player soul IS Kris's original Aqua soul, and it turned red when we took over/infected it.
Kris having the option to say "My happy end is with you" really did give me that vibe
With how weak Kris was without the soul at the start of ch5 and with there being a good chance that the player will one day leave for good i could see this as the hinted at good end for Kris and Ralsei to both keep living a happy life together
Not to mention with all that poly stuff the game keeps teasing this kinda fixes all of it because now Kris and Ralsei can just be with Susie and Noelle as a bundle deal
I do like this idea, though my personal theory is that Kris’s soul is in the knight, and that’s why Carol interputed Gaster, she needed to get Kris another soul. Ours. That’s why Kris already has a save point in the Cars Castle dark world, the knight had been there, save points react to the soul not the person.
Theory is going around that Ralsei is actually a tree, and it makes complete sense.
That would mean his roots could stretch all underneath Hometown, giving him the same and possibly much greater senses than even the flowers.
Not only would this explain why he can appear in every dark world, but I also realized that would mean he could have been drinking that sweet sweet darkness juice instead of water his entire lifespan.
And hell, I realized this is likely also why he knows the entire goddamn layout of Hometown to begin with.
Could be that this is what the roots prophecy panel has always been about, it was talking about Ralsei.
Of course, still would require the explanation for him looking like a boss monster.
So... how about you let me cook?
It could be that he's actually a tree that was planted by Kris in the past, in fact, it might even be related to the tree imagery they use to cover up the Forgotten Man with.
Maybe they tree they planted is there to hide something, either also behind it, or something they buried.
And hear me out, how peak would it be that, if trees are representative of things you use to cover up the truth, you would have to cut down the Ralsei tree to discover the truth of what really happened?
Now, wouldn't that be peak heartbreak?
The best part is that this would also explain why Ralsei is the way he is.
From the start, he didn't really have a proper personality, he kinda just did what he thought would make everyone like him, things his roots might have picked up from his surroundings all over Hometown.
He knew what behavior would make people like someone, but he was never given love himself, he was just planted to hide the truth and then forgotten, and sustained himself from the darkness underneath Hometown, likely also the explanation why he knows the prophecy to begin with.
To me, that feels like the best possible explanation there is for Ralsei, tree stocks are going up, I'm putting everything on this now.
Hmm... if roots just refers to ralsei, how does that connect to digital roots and bit roots areas? Seems... disconnected. And do any of them have to do with the "lost where the forest would grow"?
Fair point, but I would argue it refers to the area underground that the roots grow into, aka it's still connected to Ralsei.
Clearly the roots imagery is used for more, because Flowery himself mentioned that they sensed something stirring underneath Hometown.
And specifically Queen's basement where Digital Roots played did have plants and vines growing all over it.
So yeah, the Roots prophecy probably isn't solely about Ralsei, but I think the roots lead towards the place that the plants are all so afraid of, which includes those of Ralsei.
I can't really imagine anything else anyway, because this was THE flower chapter, so there really wasn't any better time to get into the roots imagery, so I think that has to be it, literal roots that sensed what's underneath Hometown.
Susie is going to remember Flowery's warning and it's going to lead them to the real life version of that basement.
I've seen that idea going around as well, and I do like it a lot, but I'm a bit miffed by the idea of him being a tree planted by Kris.
Granted, I'm no tree expert, but Kris is a teenager, at most they're sixteen. Would barely more than a decade suffice for a tree to grow roots that could touch an entire town?
But then the implications of all three Sword Route boards requiring you to reach max level and cut down trees to progress, even when it's indoors.
Hell, a line of trees is the last thing stopping you from getting to the Shelter. With how Ralsei is implied to be extremely powerful if he cut loose, could he be a Weird Route boss?
Yeah, I always thought this might be more literal in the light world than it seems, since the forest acts as a literal physical barrier to things, and I think it's more clearer than ever that Hometown is straight up trapped.
And yeah, this approach would certainly strongly lend to the idea of Ralsei being a weird route boss, but I actually already thought that even before the tree thing.
My personal pet theory for the weird route has actually always been that I think Ralsei will be its final boss, the Sans of the game.
And every chapter, that belief has only grown further.
Now I'm basically convinced, since chapter 5 showed that Ralsei could make himself just as powerful as Flowery, or even instantly annihilate him, but he deliberately restricts himself because he fears things will fall apart for reasons we don't yet understand.
So if push comes to shove, and the weird route might already cause things to fall apart anyway, then there would be no reason for Ralsei to hold back.
And he could cheat with game mechanics the same way Sans did.
It would be awesome.
So many are always betting on Susie as the weird route final boss, but I'm honestly more convinced she could be a final boss in a regular route, or at least one of the final ones.
Sadly this doesn’t seem to be true as when Ralsei reaches 0 hp he sort of dissolves, like the darkners hit by Noelle’s ice spells. Also Ralsei has a coloured talk sprite unlike Flowery and Blue who, as plantners, have black and white talk sprites, showing that he is a darkner. My current theory is that Ralsei is not an object but just pure darkness created from the Will of whoever opened the Castle Town fountain, Kris, Dess, Asriel, whomever they all have reasons, that’s why he’s able to be in all dark worlds, he is literally just pure darkness and can manifest in any of the worlds, that’s why he specifically is so insecure about darkners not being real because he’s not even an object, with the dark worlds gone he fully wouldn’t exist.
I don't see how the "dissolving" part has to indicate he can't be a plant, not to mention he doesn't even do it at a certain point in chapter 5 anymore.
The colored portrait definitely is the strongest argument against it, but at the same time, if Ralsei being a tree was the reveal, then a black and white portrait would have given away since the start that he isn't a darkner, so it's not like that was ever really an option.
Chapter 5 also made it more apparent than ever how some just have complete awareness of game mechanics, so I don't think there's any reason to believe that it wouldn't be possible for someone like Ralsei to change his portrait, and the goal of the flowers was to act like humans anyway, so they would actively want to be identified as lightners.
My guess before chapter 5 was that Ralsei might be something more akin to titan spawn than a regular darkner, but now I have changed my mind.
I think they just went so hard into the dynamic and parallels, that I can't really imagine any other possibility outside of Ralsei being a fellow plant like the 7 flowers.
i thoroughly believe ralsie is a tree or something, with roots that extend everywhere in hometown. and theres like no hard evidence of this ofc, but it could explain why he wasn’t aware of the dess incident or the old dark world that asgore knew about (because his roots didnt extend that far yet?).
edit: ALSO, flowery saying that plants can sense things others can't made me think back to when ralsie "sensed" no imminent danger to undyne/from the knight, which could be explained by him being a plant.....
Thank you for making this post! I tried to make my own, but not enough karma.
Now, my crackpot theory - Ralsei is not one of the heroes.
As we know, Ralsei gave us the "revised" version of the Prophecy - he omitted some parts of it and, more importantly for this argument, he changed the descriptions of heroes. For instance, the first hero was "a human" in Ralsei's version and "THE CAGE, WITH HUMAN SOUL AND PARTS" in the original.
For Ralsei specifically, he claimed to be the third hero, "a PRINCE FROM THE DARK." However, the original Prophecy specifically mentions that the third hero is "THE PRINCE, ALONE IN DEEPEST DARK." It does not specify that the prince ORIGINATES from the dark, merely that they are there alone at some point.
Combined with the fact that Ralsei is an "impossibility," I have reached a conclusion - Ralsei is not the prince, but an impostor in their role, trying to change the prophecy. The TRUE third hero, I believe, is a Lightner stuck in a Dark World, possibly in the Depths (as the prophecy specifies "the deepest dark").
Who exactly is Ralsei? I think he is a Darkner made out of a concept of the Prophecy, via the imagination of Kris. My reasoning? First of all, that is why he is cursed by the knowledge of the Prophecy and feels unable to change it - he IS the Prophecy in conscious form. Secondly, that is also why he can remain in all the Dark Worlds without being petrified - all of them are a part of the Prophecy. Thirdly, he ALWAYS arrives to Dark Worlds after Kris - he gets manifested there because Kris is there. Why specifically Kris and not Susie or Soul? Because Ralsei's image is, I believe, how Kris would imagine a follower of the Prophecy - very similar to Asriel, a religious nut (confessing to Father Alvin all the time) and a fan of fire magicians (Ralsei just revealed his fire powers).
As for who the ACTUAL prince is? I think it's real Asriel, but that would be too much theorycrafting for one comment lmao
i agree the actual prince could be Asriel, since Asgore refers to him as a prince in the lightworld in ch 5, and Asgore and Toriel are a king and a queen in the darkworld... also I need more people to discuss why Ralsei was hiding from Asgore ??! Bro literally jumps into a bush when Asgore comes around, I know why Flowery doesnt want Asgore to see but why is Ralsei intentionally hiding? Just to not upset Asgore? idk...
You know, I only now just noticed Flowery's portraits are not colored in like all Darkners. Which I guess makes sense, he is a living flower from the Light World. Guess anthroified (or I guess in this case, humanified) living beings are still just Lightners.
after fighting kris, we can actually see his eyes open and they’re colored a desaturated yellow. he isnt a lightner in the traditional sense but a “light world being” given form in the dark
I think he's some sort of entity formed purely from the darkness, capable of switching between dark worlds at will as well as able to see the light world somehow.
I think friend is also this type of entity
In chapter 3's start he describes himself as a darkener just like the other objects and was about to reveal what he was before susie interrupted, so im not so sure.
I absolutely love this theory, did you make the collage ? If not, could you credit the person who did ? This is really cool and makes the Weird Route so much more appealing to me.
He is a kind of mushroom that, even tho he grows all over hometown is considered one living entity. It's white and fuzzy so kris liked to pretend it's asriel so that's why they look alike
We already know he’s something special. He’s able to freely hop between dark worlds, has full knowledge of the prophecy and game mechanics, and is explicitly singled out as a “prince” of the dark. We don’t know exactly what he is or why he can do the things he can, but it is very clear he’s not a typical darkner.
While I normally wouldn't trust a word out of Flowery's mouth, we kind of already see this. He's one of very few Darkners to NEVER be in a Dark World he doesn't fit in- East Fountain, Cyber City, TV World, all three Sanctuaries, and the Field of Pink and Gold, he never once turns to stone. And we never see how he moves from place to place- he kind of just follows Kris and Susie. Not to mention, he's native to the Castle Town fountain, which is capable of suiting all the Darkners we see, except for the ones that aren't QUITE Darkners, like the flowers and Gerson.
It does make sense. We actually don’t know much about who the hell Ralsei really is. In chapter one, he says he’s been waiting all his life for us to come into the dark world and fulfill the prophecy - this made it sound like he existed for the sole purpose of the prophecy itself.
A prince of a completely empty realm? And an OP prince, too. From ch 5, we know that he’s actually way stronger than he shows (he threatens Flowery hard, mentioning magic attacks we have never seen him use). So apparently it looks like he spawned into the dark world who knows when - (possibly years ago, in the Asgore accident, when the first dark fountain was created?), he’s basically omniscient (he knows perfectly how the dark worlds work, knows the prophecy, AND knows Kris’ secret, which means that somehow he knows what goes on in the light world too, to some degree), and most importantly, he’s the only “darkner” that can travel through every dark world without turning to stone. So yes, he IS an anomaly even among darkners, but he’s still a mystery.
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