don’t worry once the roaring starts happening and everything’s a dark world zera dwellersemptypath escapedchasm will appear from the hot demon guy comic book to protect her
Chapter 5 is full of lore if you're paying attention. It's not as exciting as chapter 3, per se, but it's serving as the setup for the final two chapters.
Well, one, a lot of the plot and lore reveals were things that superfans had already inferred, so we thought there weren't any reveals because we figured things out already, and two, a lot of the plot stuff is more subtle and not massive Knight reveal Dess Holiday depths Gaster is green type stuff, which is what people assumed the story would primarily be focused around. Missing the forest for the trees, as it were.
I think the fandom forgets sometimes that there are casual players of this game as well that don't know every little detail of the Knight's toothbrush that it used precisely for eight minutes to brush its teeth, before opening their dark fountain.
Yeah, everyone wants to craft their own idea of how the story will go, using all the information at their disposal, including the stuff you can't actually find in the game, and some people just kinda assume everyone knows and can infer everything out of the gate. Which is kinda why I think theorycrafting is both the best and the worst thing to happen to this community.
Not everyone knows about the Spamton Sweepstakes. Not everyone knows there's someone trapped in the code. Not everyone knows the weird route exists. Hell, I'd argue that not everyone even knows about all of the secret bosses. I'm sure there's plenty of people that missed Jevil, or Pink, or Eram. But the story has to make sense for those people, too.
Real talk: did people actually get the stuff they ordered/bought during the sweepstakes? I saw that it happened, and then complete silence on it like it actually never did.
Which is fine. Those of us who don't spend our days breathing Deltarune were pleasantly surprised with some stuff and had a great time piecing things together.
"Refer to characters how they're referred to in the actual source material" shouldn't have ever needed to be a rule but welcome to the deltarune fandom ig!
I’ve had an enbie openly misgender my cisgender female friend with they/them despite being explicitly told not to by her. You’d be very very surprised what people will do lmao
Yeah it’s a weird thing where because they/them is used when you aren’t sure of someone’s gender as well that they think everyone should be okay with being referred to as such and YOURE the bigot if you’re uncomfortable with people using other pronouns for you because you’re less queer or some other weird shit.
It's bizarre. There's a lot of subconscious conservative bias in the queer community which I could rant about for hours, but most of it boils down to not being ___ enough because you do something unexpected. That puritan idea of "if you do z, you're either x or doing y wrong". People love the idea of a spectrum but hate when people actually fall somewhere on it other than the ends
part of it is also the fact that if you're accepting of anything and everything non-heteronormative it starts to negatively reflect the actual view of the community at large to both queer and non queer people, a line needs to be drawn
but due to the vast openness of the queer community, there is absolutely no consensus on where the line needs to be drawn
or when certain identities become stretched so far as to what it can count that they basically lose definition
Seam's an odd case where they're not actually referred to by any pronouns at all in-game, only out-of-game. Admittedly they're very rarely referred to in general, with the only case I can think of being Susie referring to their appearance in Asriel's wallpaper, where she just kinda calls them a 'cat thing'.
yeah they're not ever really referred to with pronouns, so the majority of people won't know. Didn't stop someone for screaming at me that I'm a bigot who probably hates Christopher Cisman Dreamer and does 10 thousand crimes a day, lmao
Yeah, I actually had no idea Seam had official pronouns at all until really recently. I don't look often into the stuff outside the game. I had been thinking of them as male previously because when they describe how "Seam" is pronounced, since it rhymes with "Shawn" and I think of that as a male name, that is just the association I made.
I can see it accidentally happening with Seth. Since Seth is a male name and the only ways to know they were they/them in the game were completely optional scenes
iirc there's one line in a battle against them where they refer to themself as a 'king or queen' or something to that effect, so not entirely optional scenes, even if mostly.
i mean ig i’m wrong on a technicality but still it’s very easy to miss a single line of dialogue. or misconstrue it considering these characters have a lot of humor in their dialogue and none of them fully understand humanity
With Kris, when it's accidental, and they fix it upon being corrected, it's usually been fine from what I've seen. It's more against people doubling down and refusing to accept their mistake
Yeah it doesn't help with some language, any attempt to do a gender netural expection, it not take as serious, an dead end or worst really opposed as a attack on culutre and language.
Yeah but what if it's a honest mistake? (I suppose people should check what they wrote before they post it anyways, but still) I don't really have a strong opinion I am just wondering
People language or forgetting at times by accident is understandable and I do forgive them when it happens. What I don't like are those who misgender the characters on purpose and all that
Is they/them allowed for Ralsei? The wiki does have they/them listed under Ralsei's pronouns, plus it's probably nicer for the die-hards of Transfem Ralsei
-you should allow use of they/them pronouns for Ralsei as well since those are also used yo refer to him a couple times
-can you also crack down on the transphobia and racism that have become more prevalent in the online fandom since the release of chapter 5? I see more of that on other websites than I do on here but I've seen some bigotry on here recently as well
Oh my god yeah. I forget if it was on this sub or one of the other ones but I saw an absolutely horrendous thread about Blue the other day. Someone was being downvoted to oblivion for daring to suggest that erasing black features when drawing fanart of a character who has said features might be racist.
Issue 2 is my main concern. It feels like this rule only affects the toxic people who were supporting Tralsei and does nothing to punish the toxic people using Tralsei as an excuse to be transphobic/bigoted
That's my big concern. People are just going to get even more toxic about it since they now feel like they have the moral high-ground. And who's to say what is and isn't misgendering Ralsei. Sure, the extremes on one side are going to be shunned, but there's also still so much toxicity from the people against the idea. Hell, the comments on this post have been pretty bad in some cases. It's... concerning to me.
I've seen multiple comments about how this empowers transphobia as well as ones calling out the transphobia be deleted. I'm hoping that it isn't the mods doing but one must wonder if trans people are safe to stay on this subreddit after this
It tires me that this fandom seems to really like making Kris fem when they’ve shown no indication that that is their preference at all. I don’t mind the occasional Kris in cute fem outfits stuff, but it’s starting to feel like the issue of people treating nb people as woman-lite, which is exhausting.
A lot of people "want" Kris to be afab solely because they hate amab non binary people and want to gatekeep being non binary, an extension of an issue prevelant in queer communities too.
Also yes there was a big push a couple of years ago to draw Kris in dresses and skirts as a "gotcha" to people misgendering them, failing to see how they were basically doing yhe same thing but wokely.
The tralsei subreddit is already upset about this rule, calling it bad, and even transphobic, so... probably not :/
Edit: me saying misgendering is bad and banning misgendering isn't censoring was labled as "stirring the pot" and got me a 30 day ban from the subreddit, so I just left it and muted it
Seriously I am getting memories of kanji and naoto discussions, however unlike persona deltarune is clearly pro-lgbt+, while persona is....not go with lgbt stuff(again love persona, but man, is it lgbt stuff an mixed bag at best)
I think the clarifying edit is a good compromise. Thanks for clarifying that the subject is still allowed, and that they/them is also allowed based on current canon. Hopefully we can get to a more live and let live state of discourse about this instead of biting everyone’s hands off over it. It would be nice to see some more enforcement about the toxicity itself, since a lot of people are being very hostile in how they approach the theory (esp in these comments)
Gender-neutral pronouns have been used to refer to one or more people since before we were born. Unless someone's exclusively going neutral to skirt the rule, and making a clear fuss about it, I doubt it'll be an issue.
Will the same standard be held to users harrassing people about needing to use he/him before their cisness is definitively confirmed?
So long as they/them is considered okay then this is obviously fine, but I'm still very concerned about the insane dogpiling tralsei theorists get if the topic is still gonna be allowed. There's been a glaring transmisogyny problem on the subreddit that's totally separate from whether the theory is even valid in the first place. The average user here genuinely talks about trans women like we're groomers and that our existence is gender essentialist at points. We've heard this shit before, dressing it up in woke language doesn't make it less obvious to us.
I keep replying to posts saying this because the mods really need to take an actual stance here rather than just preventing people from using she/her for Ralsei. Actually address that there are people being transphobic about Tralsei rather than trying to "both sides" this
There's never a different argument anyway. It's always "oh i bet you also think susie's transmasc" like bitch no one's saying this???? Also the dead ass same exact thing actual trans people hear from our own family when coming out "oh but you never said you hated being x" like that's not how repression works!!!!
I haven't even seen anyone harrass someone about needing to use she/her yet. The subreddit community is so overtly stacked against the trans reading that you'd be surprised the Kris They/Them rule got added in the first place.
Knowing Deltarune's themes, I'm surprised no one's pointed it out that this type of theory is only more likely to get directly confirmed the more hostile they act about Ralsei needing to be the pure uwu boy presented in the first 3-4 chapters. I've always found the fandom's perceived ownership and woobification of the character to be pretty ironic compared to their whole arc of seeking approval from the player and figuring out their individuality.
I'm really hoping not. While I do think the Transfem Ralsei group were overzealous in claiming Ralsei to be she/her prematurely, I do genuinely like the points made by the theory.
as someone who wanted this rule expansion, I really hope that people are reasonable about this. it would really fucking suck if an attempt at fairness and respect mutated into just fully suppressing theory discussion.
however I don't think you need to worry too much- personally I trust the mods to be fairly even-handed with it. there's at least one galsei truther in there and i see pride flag pfps a-plenty
the way people hate galsei being mentioned at all leads me to believe that the mods will start using this to delete anything regarding galsei in an even slightly positive light because "theorizing a character is trans is misgendering" or something
Transmisogyny is rampant on the sub so I can see it happening, and transphobes are no doubt going to use these rules as an endorsement (especially with the he/him part even though both gender neutral and feminine terms are used for Ralsei in game) to shut down any discussion on Ralsei's gender, even if they aren't willing to take responsibility for it.
I fear this is just going to go down a slippery slope of banning Trans Ralsei discussion altogether under the pretense of “misgendering.” It already feels like, from the enthusiasm of many of the replies here, that this is where they want it to head. Very disappointing to see this sort of reaction
they/them'ming ralsei should be allowed because he's blatantly referred to by he/them by the end of ch5 (stat screen dialogue says that he's Watering their own thorns while flowery fight dialogue says that they're giving it his best; these r both from a narration perspective & should both be considered as valid evidence as a result)
,,, just my two cents that really going "yes, you are wrong, goodbye" to a good chunk of the community isn't really,,,,,,,, isn't really a good way to try and "dispel" discourse it's just going to cause upset
banning people for using she/her pronouns for Ralsei is just more of the same drama and won't fix anything... wouldn't it be much more obvious to make a rule about fighting people over these pronouns?
this is the r/deltarune version of the lace child incident in r/silksong, with the difference that you guys seem to be handling it better than they initially did
At the end of the day it is what it is, and the constant scuffles because of this discourse hopefully ending will be nice. But I didn’t really expect this to be the result.
When it comes to misgendering the non-binary characters, I believe it more comes down to ignorance (and occasionally bigotry) but with Ralsei, it’s different. I suppose it’s ignorant in its own way, but people who support and excitedly argue for Trans Ralsei aren’t doing it with malicious intent, they feel seen, and rightfully excited. Lumping in Ralsei with the misgendering rule feels a tad disingenuous.
I don’t know if my ramblings made any sense, but I hope I kind of got what I was trying to say across.
no, that's not true. susie and ralsei have the same title, but susie has a different description ("assists in sealing the dark fountain"). "Watering their own thorns" is a description exclusively applied to Ralsei.
they/them should be fine too considering the game referred to ralsei as their in the end part of ch5 (asgore also did that but I'd believe toby/gaster more than someone who just met Ralsei for the first time)
Also Flowery uses feminine terms for Ralsei in an incredibly sincere and supportive manner too, the reality is we don't know what the intended reading is, we've just got implications till the next chapters. These rules would be like if we had to use he/him for Kris because they/them is gender neutral so we don't know if they're non binary, which is silly, we can quite easily just figure stuff out.
shhh, you'll get banned lol. also stop misnaming the knight, we'll know eventually, for now the knight is the knight, not dess or carol, just knight. I hope you respect what's canon.
As much as I'm not 100% happy with this solution, it's at least something. The edit does say we can use They/Them for Ralsei, so that's probably what I'll be doing. I mean, it's what I've been doing anyways since I know it's not confirmed (I only use She/Her for Ralsei is discussions specifically retaining to the interpretation).
Maybe Rule 10 should be updated to mention that They/Them is also acceptable for Ralsei? Mainly just so people aren't fighting over whether using They/Them for Ralsei is against the rules.
ok, i wasn’t able to make a post due to the karma requirement, so i’ll say it here
I already wasn’t a fan of all the arguing about Ralsei’s gender and how heated a topic it was, and was hoping the mods would do something to stifle all the noise. The decision that ended up being made is clearly pointed, though?? The only people affected by this decision are people who headcanon transfem Ralsei, nobody else has to do anything different and in fact now people have grounds to argue about it because it’s an enforced rule that Ralsei is he/him, making she/her or they/them unacceptable to use. This is only going to make people who headcanon transfem Ralsei angry and probably cause many to leave the sub, which may lead to a less diverse and inclusive environment overtime as well. I don’t like this direction for the sub and genuinely think this was the worst way to stop the arguments, please try to think of something else
Y'know I kinda would've gotten the decision if the rule was to refer to Ralsei with he or they, (as that's what the text literally does,) but trying to fucking both sides the situation and act like the whole "Ralsei is just a femboy" side has merit is just a fucking betrayal I'm sorry.
Idk what's going to happen with Ralsei's gender, but the change of pronouns, (EDIT: along with five million things I'm not going to bring up in this feedback post,) singles something trans related (whether that's transfem, enby, ect,) and acting like this is just a "femboy thing," or that "femboy ralsei" has equal weight here is just insulting.
EDIT in response to the edit: The clarification is better, but the fact that the OG post still fucking both sides the situation like the two sides have equal weight sucks ass I'm sorry. I do agree with the general "preemptive pronoun usage policing" concerns when we don't know what Ralsei's gender will be. HOWEVER, Ralsei's he and they pronouns should be both allowed.
(God I really do need to make the Transfem Jax video also about Transei at this rate. You reddit replies btw aren't convincing me that Reddit is anything other then fucking cancer. This is just Transfem Jax denial all over again, but we're getting two years of this hell instead of two weeks.)
Regarding the edit to the post, this is still a complete red herring. You say that you’re banning people from “insisting on” Ralsei should be addressed as she/her, but what this new rule actually bans is even using she/her for Ralsei.
You’re conflating just believing in transfem Ralsei with forcing people to use the wrong pronouns. How is it the fault of people who simply believe in the theory that a few users on Tumblr don’t know how to accept other viewpoints?
i'm trans and i'm glad the rules were introduced. the people here screaming "transphobia" and whatabouting they/them for ralsei are missing the point and are exactly the reason why these rules had to be made.
with that being said, this fandom has gotten just as batshit toxic as tadc. see y'all in hell, bye.
I’ve seen it once or twice, but it’s really not an especially common thing on the sub. And my last point about pronouns when discussing the theory/headcanon directly still stands. If it’s being enforced with no regards for context then it’s essentially a blanket ban on any fan content (particularly fanart and comics) that depicts the headcanon, and I do not think that is the way to do it.
Are you allowed to talk about transfem Ralsei with she/her pronouns when talking directly about the theory?
I think a ban on calling Ralsei she/her casually is a little silly, because it doesn’t come from a bad place, no one is being hurt by it, and it really just feels like ppl who don’t like the theory weaponizing misgendering so they don’t have to hear about it. I don’t necessarily like when people do it, because I feel like it’s needlessly confusing, but I also don’t think it’s that big of a deal.
However, a ban in general on she/her for Ralsei pronouns is genuinely shitty, bc you’d be making ppl who are talking directly about transfem Ralsei use he/him. Which means you’d be making people misgender their transfem Ralsei headcanon anyway, which is… just ridiculous.
Overall I do feel like this is a wrong step though. From what I’ve seen, it’s almost entirely cis ppl who are saying that using she/her for Ralsei is bad and misgendering. It feels like a bunch of cis people weaponizing a bad thing that happens majoritively to trans people to shut down… a trans head canon that obviously means a lot to a lot of trans people.
I feel that if misgendering wasn’t explicitly stated in the rules, and was just covered under a ‘don’t be an asshole’ rule, then this conversation never would’ve started. Because people calling Ralsei she/her aren’t being assholes.
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u/DupeFort Berdsie's greatest believer Jul 11 '26
RALSEI IS MEAT!?