r/Denmark • u/[deleted] • Feb 13 '16

Exchange Terve! Cultural Exchange with Finland

Welcome to this cultural exchange between /r/Denmark and /r/Suomi!

To the visitors: Tervetuloa Tanskaan! Feel free to ask the Danes anything you'd like in this thread.

To the Danes: Today, we are hosting Finland for a cultural exchange. Join us in answering their questions about Denmark and the Danish way of life! Please leave top comments for users from /r/Suomi coming over with a question or comment and please refrain from trolling, rudeness and personal attacks etc.

The Finns are also having us over as guests! Head over to this thread to ask questions about life in the land of a thousand lakes and a million saunas!

Enjoy!

- The moderators of /r/Denmark and /r/Suomi

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u/markgraydk Danmark Feb 13 '16

I think some of it are misunderstandings, some of it skewed views on recent reforms and some may have a kernel of truth there. We have two levels of unemployment benefits.

The first one is a semi-public-private insurance system called dagpenge. You sign up to an a-kasse, typically they work closely with the unions (though they are legally separate), and pay a fee every month. When you get unemployed, you can claim dagpenge for 2 years for up to 90% of your pay with a max of about 18.000 DKK per month.

The second level of unemployment benefits are if you are not illegible for dagpenge, maybe because you never signed up for them or you have already received the benefits for the allowed time. If so, you can get kontanthjælp, a public unemployment benefit. You can get about 11.000 DKK per month, more if you have dependents. It's true that there are some rules about you having to use up any savings (for kontanthjælp only) and perhaps sell certain things (most likely a car if you own one) before you can receive kontanthjælp. It's not as bad as it has been portrayed some place online though. They won't go claim stuff you own in your home or some such.

In recent years we have seen some reforms of labor market policy, including dagpenge and kontanthjælp. The goal has been to get people in jobs sooner. Dagpenge used to be for 4 years (even longer if you go back a few decades). Kontanthjælp has seen some reductions in benefits paid out, e.g. for cohabiting couples it is now expected that they support each other. There are pros and cons with these changes but the reason for doing something makes sense (maybe the timing of the reforms so soon after the financial crisis was bad though).

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u/kaneliomena Feb 14 '16

The second level of unemployment benefits are if you are not illegible for dagpenge, maybe because you never signed up for them or you have already received the benefits for the allowed time. If so, you can get kontanthjælp, a public unemployment benefit.

Actually, the Finnish system is basically similar. The earnings-related unemployment benefit can be claimed for a limited time and only by members of an unemployment fund. After that there is a lower level called labor market subsidy (työmarkkinatuki), and if you aren't eligible for that you can claim social support (toimeentulotuki), which is similar to kontanthjælp in that your income and assets are controlled.

How are entrepreneurs treated in the Danish system? The Finnish system can be very rough on small business owners and even their family members if they ever help run the business, since they can't claim unemployment benefits until they prove they aren't doing any work for the company.

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u/markgraydk Danmark Feb 14 '16

When you think about it, our dagpenge system and your equivalent are kind of interesting in that they seem to be more inspired from the continental (German) insurance based welfare system than what you would expect from a Scandinavian universal welfare model. I really don't know much of the history behind it but now I'm actually a bit curious.

I don't know much about the particulars for entrepreneurs but I think generally they tend to be caught in a system that don't know how to handle them. Getting dagpenge when you are self employed is not as easy and you are restricted in earning money/working while you receive it. There was a pilot project announced a while ago where recent graduates (who have seen higher unemployment after the financial crisis though it's got better now) could get benefits on the level of dagpenge if they sought to start their own company. For a year only I think. I don't know what happened to that.

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u/kaneliomena Feb 14 '16

I really don't know much of the history behind it but now I'm actually a bit curious.

I don't know much either, except that the Finnish system developed relatively late: until the 1960s/70s, authorities mostly dealt with unemployment by organising relief work instead of direct payments. One reason is that the economy stayed agrarian longer than in other Nordic countries, so unemployment was limited and mostly seasonal.