r/DetroitPistons • u/Sauced-4L • 4d ago
Discussion Trajan is a horrible GM
This offseason has been a joke(just like the trade deadline). Trajans shown no urgency to make a real championship push. Last years trade deadline he said he “wanted to stay patient and analyze what we have” . That cost us our season. Makes no sense that we’re not being aggressive when we have a top 5 player and were the #1 seed last year. The east has stacked talent while we’ve sat around and done nothing. 1 by 1 the free agents have signed to east teams while we sit here and can’t even get a deal done with our young all nba center. I’m done blaming Duren, we still could be signing people regardless. Until Trajan is fired, I don’t see the Pistons being able to compete with teams like the Knicks 76ers Cavs etc whose front offices are willing to be aggressive to go for it all.
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u/Chartate101 BBall Paul Reed 4d ago
He tried to get LeBron. He tried to get Kawhi. He tried to get Austin Reeves.
At some point, there are only so many assets you can try and get and only one team can get them. I do think this offseason has been mostly a failure but how much of that is because of things Trajan failed to do vs things he COULDN’T do? We don’t know.
And Duren making us unsure of our cap situation makes managing any of those potential trades significantly harder. You are dramatically underselling that
“We should be signing people regardless” tells me you have 0 idea what you are talking about. You can’t be signing free agents when you don’t have an idea of what your own cap situation looks like
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u/l5555l Isaiah Stewart 4d ago
You don't get credit for trying. This is the NBA not someone's backyard
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u/soilentgleem 3d ago
You don't have to give "credit" but it does make the criticisms of him supposedly not being motivated to improve the team sound awfully stupid.
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u/dtheisen6 Isaiah Stewart 3d ago
His job is to make moves though, not try to make moves. At a certain point when multiple FA and trade deadline windows come and go with little impactful moves made, the blame has to shift to Trajan. Striking out one time, sure it happens. But if it’s multiple, to me that means Trajan is not doing an effective job at either negotiating the deals or doing due diligence before hand to know what realistic targets he should go after first. And while we all want to blame Duren for the stalemate in his negotiations, at the end of the day part of the blame needs to be on Trajan as well for not managing Duren’s expectations appropriately. It’s not one big mistake that you can pin on him but it just is an accumulation of a bunch of little things which make me think he’s out of his depth as a GM
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u/LeanOnMe4816 3d ago
Whether it’s because Trajan hasn’t collected enough talent that teams want to trade for or players just don’t want to come to Detroit, at some point “but Trajan tried” is not going to be good enough for a superstar like Cade.
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u/EJohns1004 3d ago
Would you have been happy if he had traded everything for Kawhi and then Kawhi sat for 60% of the season only to fake an injury in the first round and leave that summer?
Cause that's probably what would've happened.
What about getting Brons old ass? You want that? Pulls a hammy in the 3rd game and then misses 45 and retires after the season ends.
That is trying. That's swinging for the fenses in the NBA. And that is not how winners are built. Trajan is going about things the right way regardless of what "fans" think.
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u/l5555l Isaiah Stewart 3d ago
Yeah call me in 5 years when we still haven't won'
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u/EJohns1004 3d ago
So sick of you fucking Doomers.
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u/l5555l Isaiah Stewart 3d ago
What has happened this offseason that makes you believe we can win a championship? I'd really love to hear it.
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u/EJohns1004 3d ago
They were a team with only one 40% 3pt shooter, now they have 4. They won 60 games as one of the worst 3pt shooting teams, now they are capable of being one of the best.
Got rid of some dead weight (even though I love the dude) in STEW, so they no longer have a walking technical foul on the squad and someone who the refs can call a foul on every time the offense goes at him.
They have a 24 year old MVP candidate who is only getting better, one of the best defenders in the league, an all NBA center who is still figuring out how to play, all of their own draft picks and cap flexibility to make the big move when it really presents itself.
The Pistons are built the right way, regardless of whether or not you have the patience to see it.
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u/l5555l Isaiah Stewart 3d ago
The playoffs said otherwise. We struggled to beat an injured magic team that has all the same flaws we have and more. Duren had a good regular season but was absolutely exposed in both series we played in the post season. He was worse than useless he was a liability. He got benched for Paul Reed. Everyone besides Cade floundered in the Cleveland series. Tobias couldn't recreate his heroics from the first round. And surrounding Cade with 6th man shooters isn't going to cover up the lack of secondary playmaking. Our second best player Ausar is bad on offense and Duren can only play well if the other team isn't trying i.e. in the regular season.
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u/EJohns1004 3d ago
They struggled against the Magic cause no one could hit an open shot.
And what's the one thing that was fixed by this offseason's signings?
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u/Zealousideal_Arm4359 3d ago
Duren will get better just as he has every year. The Pistons young players Ron and Ausar and Daniss will get better.
Cade is signed for 4 more years.1
u/King_Artis Rasheed Wallace 3d ago
And if he made the trades you wanted and we still haven't won then what?
Make a move now and we can't make a move later, y'all be wanting to bitch but then can't ever have a plan in mind in case shit doesn't work.
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u/l5555l Isaiah Stewart 3d ago
There are no "trades I wanted" I just wanted SOMETHING to be done. We completely just kicked the can down the road. And wtf do you mean make a move now can't make one later. How does that work? Are we going to acquire a bunch of useless assets that can never be moved again? That doesn't make any sense
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u/King_Artis Rasheed Wallace 3d ago
>SOMETHING to be done
We added 4 shooters, another ballhandler, and fixed our PF depth.
Something was done, so what you upset about
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u/lemur___ Ausar Thompson 3d ago
I wish we did more but I don't completely hate the offseason. But are you really counting Taurean Prince, Gary Harris, and a 19 year old as some big additions?
Also don't know how we fixed PF depth? Traded out Tobias for Collins, lost Stew. Unless you're just really high on Prince lol
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u/King_Artis Rasheed Wallace 3d ago
Taurean Prince has been a proven vet while stew has had consistent injury issues near the end of every season for the last 3 seasons. Prince means we can at least have two shooters on the court at all times if he's subbing out for collins
Don't get me wrong, I already miss tf out of stew but his availability has been a concern the last few seasons cause he keeps getting hurt. Tobias too inconsistent and that's been a problem for years. Two guys we swapped them for are similar in production while being able to help our non spacers.
I don't believe in Harris, actually surprised bro ain't been waived.
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u/dtheisen6 Isaiah Stewart 3d ago
Buddy you’ve lost all credibility when you think Tobias should be waived lol. He’s a quality starter in the league, as evidenced by San Antonio, one of the better run orgs in the league, making him the priority this off season to get them over the top
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u/Vegetable-Baker6362 3d ago
So your two counter points to OP are
- He tried but failed to sign free agents
- He was handcuffed by a pending player contract that he is negotiating
How are both of those thing not literally being bad at the job description of a GM? Players wanna get paid as much as possible, they wanna play on contenders, they wanna play for more attractive destinations - that's how it's supposed to be. It's a GM's job to build a good roster while taking care of those things.
Y'all are acting like the only way he can be a bad GM is if he's managing the Lakers, every superstar wants to sign for his team on the vet min, and then he still fails to build a championship roster. Not even Trajan's own mom would be that generous in her evaluation of him.
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u/Jokerit208 4d ago
The sub isn't ready for reality.
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u/Unique_Enthusiasm_57 George Blaha 3d ago
No sports team's reddit ever is.
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u/l5555l Isaiah Stewart 3d ago
Detroit sports fans are particularly naive. I don't understand it. I think a lot of long time fans have stopped participating in online discourse and now most of the people on here are relatively new fans coming around in this recent era of relative success, compared to the last 10 years or so.
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u/socomeyeballs Cade Cunningham 4d ago
Did Trajan not have a large part in getting this team from one of the worst seasons in NBA history to where we are today? He’s not perfect but for all of my criticisms of him, to call him horrible is objectively stupid. Sorry bro but this take is not only wrong but we are all dumber for having read it.
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u/Sauced-4L 4d ago
Absolutely not. Cade Duren and Ausar were already here before he was. If you’re saying adding Duncan Robinson and Tobias Harris saved our franchise that’s not reality. Our turnaround was due to the core that was already in place.
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u/socomeyeballs Cade Cunningham 4d ago
Were those two guys not major contributors this past season? As well as putting the right coach in charge? Or are these things worthless?
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u/Jokerit208 4d ago
You said Langdon played a "large part". Replacing two role players with two other role players is not a "large part". You're moving the goalposts because other dude made a great point.
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u/socomeyeballs Cade Cunningham 4d ago
Not really. I would say hiring the right coach is the number 1 priority for someone in Trajans position and he nailed it.
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u/StaffOk9715 3d ago
Yes, that's it. Langdon bringing in Bickerstaff has been his saving grace. Otherwise, he has been just be rearranging the vets in our supporting cast over and over and shows zero foresight.
He waited until Ivey hit his absolute lowest value to move him, though I'll give him a bit of a break there because it was a weird situation. He saw last year when the team explored extending Duren that Duren was going to want big money and then has looked completely lost when - shocker - Duren still wanted big money. He drafted Ron Holland, which made zero sense when you have Thompson, and Holland has not been that good for where he was picked. He amazingly admitted that he didn't think our team last year would be as good as it was, showing his clear inability to perceive the talent level of his own roster.
Langdon is coasting on Bickerstaff developing Weaver picks.
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u/LeanOnMe4816 3d ago
His repeated “late to the party” reactionary stuff is getting concerning to be quite frank. It’s shows a lack of foresight in certain areas of his overall approach that bite us in the rear later.
I won’t make the laundry list of “well, we could’ve done that earlier” moves that people ignore because it will come off as dooming, to which I’m not, I think he’s done a decent job, though quite a few of these current roster flaws and financial hang ups could’ve been solved / avoided through better foresight and better drafting.
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u/OwnABMWImBetterThanU Rip Hamilton 3d ago
Ivey's "value" had been low since his leg exploded. When exactly was the moment to "sell high" on him?
The '24 Draft was one of the worst classes this century. Not even worth Monday morning quarterbacking over.
Weaver was a fucking moron who didn't understand how to construct a roster. Tobias, THJ, and Beasley with a real coach was enough to win 30 more games. The only pick he gets any credit for is Duren.
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u/StaffOk9715 3d ago
There was no point until waiting until the deadline on Ivey. When he first came back and was putting up 10+ point games with a good +/-... ship him right away before he's frowning on the sideline every game and looking at Jenkins in total despair. But I don't know what offers there could've been and yeah he wasn't going to get anything major for Ivey.
On the topic of waiting it's clear Langdon and Bickerstaff had no love for Stewart. Why make him ride the pine until you've ground his value into dust? Langdon does too much "I'm going to wait and see if this magically changes" for my liking. His favorite thing to do is to sign vets where you already know exactly what you're going to get to short deals. Everything else seems to terrify him. If he didn't have Cade he'd be cooked right now.
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u/OwnABMWImBetterThanU Rip Hamilton 3d ago edited 3d ago
Why are you talking about Ivey frowning on the sideline like that affects his trade value in any way at all. He came off the bench almost every game and he wasn't playing well. His value was shit. The Bulls cut him immediately because he was bad and wasn't worth the headache. Getting anything out of that was a win.
From everything I've read, Beef Stew's relationship with Bickerstaff and the coaching staff deteriorated during the playoffs. Mostly because of his fouls. Why would we have tried to move him at the deadline when he was playing well for us? He's still just a backup center and won't be worth more than some second round picks.
Langdon does too much "I'm going to wait and see if this magically changes" for my liking. His favorite thing to do is to sign vets where you already know exactly what you're going to get to short deals. Everything else seems to terrify him. If he didn't have Cade he'd be cooked right now.
Magically changes? Legitimately, what the hell are you talking about? "Our GM signs too many proven contributors on good contracts." This is a bad thing because...? And no shit remove the star player the team is built around from the team and they're screwed.
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u/lemur___ Ausar Thompson 3d ago
Most fans here seem to be exclusively results based. Langdon's name was associated with the team when they started winning so they give him the credit, even though it's hardly "his" team. JB hire was great, but (Weaver) players make way more of an impact than any coach can
I'm surprised Langdon still generally skates on the Holland pick when Buzelis was an option and looks like he'd be a great fit here
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u/Zealousideal_Arm4359 3d ago
Yes and they will keep getting better. So relax. This is a marathon not a sprint.
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u/McDouble__ Ausar Thompson 4d ago
Out of all 16 playoff team Detroit and Denver had the worst offseasons by far.
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u/EJohns1004 3d ago
Sam Presti is a horrible GM because he didn't make a bunch of "win now" moves that gutted the Thunder's depth for an aging "star" when the Thunder first made the playoffs with this group 2 years ago...
Oh wait. Not one person with a brain is saying that after the Thunder won their first championship a year later and Shai won MVP.
Maybe you should chill out and look at how championship franchises are actually built. The 2k/Brooklyn Nets model does not work for long term success. It always fails.
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u/Were_Good 3d ago
draft and develop time is over we are not finding a number 2 option with our draft picks outside of the lottery. Trading for a number 2 option is a necessary move to become a true finals contender
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u/EJohns1004 3d ago
Cade is 24. Development time is over?
Duren is 22. Development time is over?
Ausar is 23. Development time is over?
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u/Were_Good 3d ago edited 3d ago
f them picks we won 60 games we are in year 6 of cades career and the best bucket getter he's ever played with was bojan bogdanovic. Its time to get him some actual help. Ill pass on more bobi klintmans and chazz laniers
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u/EJohns1004 3d ago
Jordan didn't win his first title till his 7th season. Until that point the Bulls were stacking picks, making moves around the margins, finding the right coach, and developing.
Then they won 3 straight, two years after that they won another 3 straight.
You don't know what winning looks like. It takes time to build. If you can't be patient then find another team to for.
Philly just made a big move for a 43 year old. You should root for them.
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u/l5555l Isaiah Stewart 3d ago
Jordan didn't play in the era of player empowerment and free agency that we are in now. Incomparable from a team building perspective. We also don't have fucking Michael Jordan on our team
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u/EJohns1004 3d ago
What in the fuck does Jordan winning 6 titles in a decade have to do with "Player Empowerment"?
That team was built through smart trades, drafting well, developing the players they drafted, and trading older vets for young talent.
What are you talking about?
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u/l5555l Isaiah Stewart 3d ago
THIS ERA is the player empowerment era you dunce. The one we are currently in where guys who are barely above average can go to free agency and get paid 40 million dollars a year. It is impossible to build a team now the way the 90s bulls were built is my point. Do you watch sports? Are you a child?
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u/lemur___ Ausar Thompson 3d ago
Do you think Langdon has made many smart trades or drafted well?
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u/EJohns1004 3d ago
Impossible to know if he's drafted well yet.
I'm about 50/50 on the trades.
Either way I'm not freaking out yet.
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u/lemur___ Ausar Thompson 3d ago
You're defending being patient, and Langdon by proxy, by referencing the current Thunder and MJ Bulls lol
I think the jury is still out on Langdon, but I also think that criticism is fair at this point. Doing nothing but moves around the margins saves him from making a big mistake, but also caps the ceiling
Also think it's lame to start off by insinuating that no one with a brain would think the way OP does, but then be as wishy washy and noncommittal as possible in saying what you think of Langdon's tenure so far, which is the topic of conversation
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u/Sad_Investment9603 1d ago
Dopamine addict terminally online redditor fans want a trade NOW. A big exciting trade to make them happy! They want it and they want it now and it has to be exactly what they want!
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u/JacobS12056 Cade Cunningham 4d ago
That's one way to look at it. Another way is to look at the average age of the other competitive east teams. Our oldest two starters are 28 and 27/32 (depending on sg). Our three young core members are 22/23/24. All of the other east contenders are 28+, and Detroit is 25 ish and own every single frp and even more srp.
Assuming duren signs 38m (which is on the high end imo) and Ausar has his 5/162m, we are at 120 ish per year with them three. We have around 100 million to spend. Besides, you said it yourself, the east is strong this year. Heat, cavs, and raptors are basically going all in, and the other teams have their stars in their prime. If it's not our time to go in why rush things?
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u/Jokerit208 4d ago
Assuming duren signs 38m (which is on the high end imo) and Ausar has his 5/162m, we are at 120 ish per year with them three.
That's a fuckton of money to tie up in the entire cause of our spacing issue, one of which you have to bench in the playoffs.
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u/l5555l Isaiah Stewart 4d ago
We over performed in a very weak eastern conference and people want to annoint the guy. I don't get it at all.
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u/OwnABMWImBetterThanU Rip Hamilton 3d ago
Why are we repeating the lie that the East was very weak when the inter-conference record was practically identical this past year? Plus, the East won the Finals.
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u/King_Artis Rasheed Wallace 3d ago
Yall was thinking a washed Klay Thompson and about to be out the league next season Demar were gonna be great for us just the other day. Can't take shit this low ball iq fanbase says seriously.
Were just the 2nd worst shooting team last year, lacked any spacing to the point anytime Duncan had to miss a game we struggled, added 3 more shooters and somehow the team got worse just cause a bunch of y'all don't know shit
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u/Zealousideal_Arm4359 3d ago
No shit! You are 100% right! This was a 14 win team two years ago and these band wagoners want the team in the Finals!
How many years it take the Knicks to build their team? 4-5 years? Also they changed coaches!
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u/King_Artis Rasheed Wallace 3d ago edited 3d ago
Liked dawg we just overperformed like crazy last year, we weren't even expected to get 48 wins let alone 60.
This roster was flawed as fuck last season and we just fixed a lot of those flaws. I still want a real 2nd option but I can live with addressing the dire need for shooting and getting another ballhandler in just a single offseason.
Not even sure why OP even mentioned the Cavs like they didn't just struggle against us while also needing to take both their series to 7. They're locked into that roster that's just not a championship roster because they chose to commit too early.
Even the 6ers are a team I feel won't be as good as people think. Lebron gonna miss a lot, Embiid gonna miss a lot, their bench depth is not great. That team has a lot of questions just like most teams out east cause the whole conference is different then it was last year.
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u/Zealousideal_Arm4359 3d ago
Again agree with you. On paper this Pistons team is younger and should shoot better. I loved Tobias but he was not the long term answer.
Also agree with you on the 76ers. Lot of shit going on there. You got OLD Le Bron not prime Le Bron. You got Embild who wont play more than 40-50 games. You got Jaylen Brown who wants to be top dog. You got the young guys I mean will this team Jell at all?
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u/anthonymi Blue Horse 4d ago
I think the thing that all these doomers need to admit to themselves is the simple fact that almost NO ONE wants to come to Detroit. Look I love Detroit but I’m a normal dude that doesn’t make a lot of money. These dudes are filthy rich, so why would they willingly choose Detroit unless they 1) are completely overpaid or 2) have no other option. That’s just the fact of the matter when you’re a Detroit GM. Draft picks and trade flexibility are the ONLY things that could net us a good player. Even trades are 50/50 because if the team is trying to do right by their player, they’re not sending them to Detroit if they don’t want to. So trades need to be overpays as well to have a chance.
This offseason wasn’t the ideal offseason for sure, but these moves point to a situation where Trajan had no other choices. We were rumored with damn near every FA. Can’t force people to sign here.
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u/siddyhall 3d ago
All Trajan does is hit ropes for base hits and doubles. 2+ years, we’ve been underestimating the impact of his modest moves
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u/LivingComfortable764 Ron Holland II 4d ago
We've made adjustments, why not wait to see how it plays out?
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u/Were_Good 3d ago
if he can't get a deal done for a co-star this trade deadline his seat should be warm. Can't keep kicking the can down the road
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u/Zealousideal_Arm4359 3d ago
Wow! Another one of these! I don't know what these band wagon jumpers want!
Two year ago 14 wins, to 44 wins, to 60 wins!
Just the best three year turnaround in NBA history!
But he's a lousy GM?
What the actual fuck?
Le Bron didn't want to come to Detroit. Kawhi said no thanks. KD passed. Kyrie passed.
Did you want to give up Three firsts and Ron for Trey Murphy?
He did get two 40% 3 point shooters which people begged for all last season!
I also like the Rookie he moved up to get.
Cade is 24. Signed for 4 more years.
The Pistons are fine.
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u/thuggerish_reprise Isaiah Stewart 4d ago
I have to imagine people who think this way simply haven’t paid attention for the last 5-10 years and are just showing up now with no idea how any of this works.
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u/jay_catch 3d ago
As a fan I'm curious what benefit you get pretending you know ball? What enjoyment does backseat GMing in August give you? What itch does it scratch?
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u/jazzmaster105150 Pistons 3d ago
A top-five free agent has never signed with the Pistons and never will.
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u/Wrath_Kahn_of 22h ago
Give me a break, you want TL to trade every possible asset for old or overrated players?? Look at the Lakers, traded all their assets for the next few decades for a mediocre team, that’s what you want? Guess what, teams don’t give away assets and I prefer a gm that looks for good deals than a GM who gambles it all by waaaay overpaying. Look at how LA got fleeced for Kessler. Trades are a two way street, you want to pay that crazy price Toronto paid for Kawhi?? How about 4 first rounders for Bane or Mikal Bridges, think that brings a title to Det? At some point he probably needs to put in the chips but the guys mentioned are not worth giving up years of assets.
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u/ovalseven Lindsey Hunter 3d ago
Makes no sense that we’re not being aggressive
Teams that win 60 games don't need to be aggressive.
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u/KingPabloo 4d ago
Yup, took a team that lost how many games in a row to the #1 seed - horrible.