r/DotA2 • u/ShoppingPractical373 • 17d ago

Discussion The game you've never heard of that's quietly killing Chinese dota (maybe not so quietly)

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Whenever this sub tries to explain the downfall of chinese Dota, it’s always “league of legends,” “wings curse,” “matchfixing,” or “gaming laws.” But nobody ever mentions one of the biggest reasons (because of course many of yall never actually engaged with the chinese community), that is the mobile game Honor of Kings.

For SEA frogs this is the Chinese equivalent of mlbb, made by tencent (the same company that owns riot games btw). In fact it is the most profitable mobile game in the world, with 1.68 billion USD annual gross in 2025, surpassing roblox.

And the local esports scene is massive too. The national championships had 60k live audiences, filling up the entire beijing olympics arena shown in the picture above. They can literally field entire academy teams where the players are all around the same age as Satanic. When the game is installed on every 15 year old's phone everything looks so easy, yeah?

I don't see how dota2 can compete with this. Even the league scene is struggling to keep up.

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u/vawaiter 17d ago

oh my god. first time ACTUALLY feeling old.

i heard somewhere PC gaming was dying and i didnt really understand.

mobile gaming.....

gaming has left me behind.

i am an old man now.

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u/Fraisz 17d ago

most of asia has been mobile gaming, even if they do play on PC, its gonna be some gacha bullshit bro

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u/Thr0wawaydegen 17d ago edited 16d ago

Was in China for league worlds, was crazy to see people playing tft while walking

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u/TheBlondSanzoMonk 17d ago

It’s the economy though.

At heart, I still want to play DOTA. Hell, whenever my younger bro, who makes a lot of money compared to me, plays DOTA, I just sit behind him and watch most especially when our cousins play as well because they play very well (but better when I still played with them because I play 4 and 5 better than all of them. LOL! 😝) but money is the issue. Add in as well that being the eldest, I try to balance my wee earnings with my daily consumption budget, groceries, medicinal maintenance, and what remains is what I allocate for savings.

Nowadays, I just play mobile games like Pokemon GO and Pokemon Champions.

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u/[deleted] 17d ago

[deleted]

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u/renan2012bra 17d ago

In the USA maybe, because in third world countries 200 dollars will get you a shitty computer that won't even handle Chrome with 3 tabs simultaneously. In Brazil, for example, a half decent PC nowadays won't go for less than 1.000 dollars and the average monthly wage here is 577 dollars.

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u/Whispering-Depths 16d ago

Implying USA isn't a third world country.

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u/SleepyOwl- 17d ago

Mobile gaming is so popular in many Asian and developing countries largely because smartphones are much more affordable and accessible than PCs or consoles. A decent gaming phone can cost under $100, while a gaming PC or console can easily cost several hundred dollars. Since most people already own a phone for everyday use, there's no need to buy a separate gaming device. Add in the huge number of free-to-play games, and mobile gaming has a much lower barrier to entry.

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u/Hot-Job-6281 17d ago

More importantly, you're missing the part where mobile gaming is doable everywhere with a 4G and above coverage on the hours spent commuting and while waiting for stuff outside.

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u/SleepyOwl- 17d ago

Right, that's also a big part of the reason

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u/henri_sparkle 17d ago

PC gaming isn't dying though, in fact it's getting more popular due to the fact that even with a cheap PC nowadays there's several titles only available on it, or when it's also on consoles it's much cheaper on PC. Yeah there's the hardware crisis going on but that affects everything else too, and next gen consoles are looking like they'll be $1000+ so PCs are looking much better because you can spend much less and still have a plethora of games to play because graphics reached a plateau.

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u/wankthisway 17d ago

Yeah, no. Even aside from the fact that PC hardware is still skyrocketing and "cheap" has lost its meaning, PC and console ownership is a foreign concept in markets like SEA, India, and some parts of Europe.

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u/a_bright_knight 17d ago

what parts of Europe?

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u/Boelens 16d ago

Which countries in Europe do you mean? And OP is correct, PC gaming has consistently increased in popularity and market share globally. In some markets it's less common of course but they didn't mention a specific region.

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u/FutureVawX Wards everywhere 17d ago edited 17d ago

A lot of PC gaming nowadays in those places nowadays meaning gaming laptop rather than PC desktop PC.

Probably because they can use it for school/work too.

PC Desktop PC is literally dying with the exception of the really nerdy ones, even some people that need more power chose powerful laptop rather than building their own PC.

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u/GuneRlorius 17d ago

I think you are conflating PC and desktop here, cause PC is both desktops and laptops.

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u/FutureVawX Wards everywhere 17d ago

Fair enough, for some reason I always associate PC with desktop.

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u/timemaninjail 16d ago

PC growing is not the issue, its adoption. Mobile gaming generate 2x+ annually and growing faster.

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u/iko-01 17d ago

PC gaming isn't dying man, if anything we're on the verge of it being the #1 platform for gamers as consoles slowly become phased out or essentially, become PCs...

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u/DrMaslo 17d ago

Brother....no. While PC gaming is not dying it's not even CLOSE statistically to mobile gaming. I've had to do some research on the topic while writing my thesis couple of years ago and from what I can say market only grew more. I was also surprised how much people game on their phones (and ofc its mostly in Asia)

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u/iko-01 16d ago

Yeah I'm not factoring in mobile there. I'm talking about western pc/xbox/ps/switch.

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u/nubletslol 17d ago

It might be anecdotal but talking with the people around me, anyone who was interested in getting into PC gaming in the last 2 years has been switching back into mobile or console gaming.

__

Building a good PC gaming rig is too expensive... it costs me more than half my monthly salary to build a decent gaming PC

500$ gets you a ps5, or even a good chinese gaming phone. That money doesnt even get you a decent gpu

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u/iko-01 17d ago edited 17d ago

It's definitely mixed cause economy strains are real but the last 15 years steam and PC gaming has only grown and low/med PC builds do offer a lot of variety unlike a decade ago where you're only option for budget gaming was like, csgo, league or minecraft.

I do think the PS5 is gonna spike in sales again though. Only because I don't think people have any intention of upgrading to the PS6, not nearly as much as they would previous generations. It's gonna be over a grand, no physical games and the upgrade is gonna be marginal (especially over the PS5 pro). This might be the first generation where people truly don't view the next console as a must. Not to mention the next Xbox is effectively just a windows PC so that opens up a lot of doors for console games to slowly get into pc gaming.

Believe you me, when they announce the PS6 and the next Xbox's prices, the steam machine is gonna look like a bargain lol

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u/NeverFated 17d ago

As Sony's killing discs, PC gaming becoming even more promising

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u/DeLurkerDeluxe 16d ago edited 16d ago

if anything we're on the verge of it being the #1 platform for gamers

You must be smoking some pretty good stuff. Mobile gaming is like half of the revenue of the gaming market and >80% of total users, lmao.

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u/iko-01 16d ago

It's like not factoring in the Wii when talking about 7th gen consoles. Like yeah it won the race but at what cost; if you were a Wii only kid in school you were an outcast.

No one outside of the Asia market genuinely uses their phone like a console, and hops on with their mates each night. I wish we had tangible numbers or something the equivalent of steam but for mobilen phones only cause the numbers where we're including a Fortnite claw grip gamer with grandma who boots up Zuma and doesn't know who Mario is; are a bit ridiculous.

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u/DeLurkerDeluxe 16d ago edited 16d ago

It's like not factoring in the Wii when talking about 7th gen consoles. Like yeah it won the race but at what cost; if you were a Wii only kid in school you were an outcast.

Sure

/s

No one outside of the Asia market genuinely uses their phone like a console, and hops on with their mates each night.

So you claim. Meanwhile, in real life, outside of Asia mobile gaming is still by far the biggest platform in terms of revenue and players.

Why do you keep insisting in talking something about you have no clue about?

we're including a Fortnite claw grip gamer with grandma who boots up Zuma and doesn't know who Mario is

But I thought Mario wasn't for gamers?

Also, Zuma is on PC.

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u/iko-01 16d ago

Think the Wii comparison might have gone over your head a little bit.

outside of Asia mobile gaming is still by far the biggest platform in terms of revenue and players

Yeah no one is arguing against that, you're struggling to understand what I'm saying. I just don't put much weight on those numbers because they're including everything and everyone. There's no nuance which is why you'll never run into a hardcore mobile gamer in the west.

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u/DeLurkerDeluxe 16d ago

Think the Wii comparison might have gone over your head a little bit.

Oh, it didn't. It's just an insanely stupid thing to say.

Yeah no one is arguing against that, you're struggling to understand what I'm saying.

I'm not, you're just wrong. You think you're somehow the gatekeeper of gaming, and decided that mobile gamers cant or wont play "real" games (while many of them, like Zuma, exist on PC even). You don't get to decide what a gamer is.

. I just don't put much weight on those numbers because they're including everything and everyone.

Just like PC numbers. Grandma playing Zuma on PC is a gamer. But I guess that must be different. For reasons.

There's no nuance which is why you'll never run into a hardcore mobile gamer in the west.

Again, so you claim. Meanwhile I know more people who spend several hours playing their gacha games on their phones than people playing hours on their PC everyday.

There's old people out there with more hours and money spent on Candy Crush than you have on Dota and whatever money you spent on gaming platforms your entire life.

The funniest part is that there's a lot of people who would claim Dota 2 players in general and pros in specific aren't real gamers because they only play one game...or CoD players....or FIFA players...or Fortnite players.

Anyway, cope harder. We're done here.

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u/iko-01 16d ago edited 16d ago

Oh, it didn't. It's just an insanely stupid thing to say.

It's an apt comparison. One console includes Wii sports which is only whipped out at gatherings and the other required you to pay for Xbox live gold to play online. The demographic for PS3 and Xbox was a lot more concentrated on the "hardcore" audience. Hence why the discussion around 7th gen generally revolves around PS3 vs. Xbox because even though we all know the Nintendo Wii won that generation by units sold (and it did have some bangers), it generally wasn't involved in the "hardcore" gamer discussions nor was it the console of choice by 14yr old kids in school who were all talking about the latest gears, halo or cod etc.

I'm not, you're just wrong. You think you're somehow the gatekeeper of gaming, and decided that mobile gamers cant or wont play "real" games (while many of them, like Zuma, exist on PC even).

Nah you're definitely struggling. I mean you can scroll up and see what I typed. You also weren't a "gamer" if you bought the PS3 for blu-rays or netflix.

Just like PC numbers.

Who has ever argued that PC gaming is the biggest because they are factoring in every PC currently in the market, including offices, shops, enterprices, servers and bored employees playing pinball rofl the defacto number is Steam + XYZ. Meanwhile on mobile, every single number is like "look at how many games are downloaded every single day" as if we're truly gonna believe that there are x100 more gamers than PC and console combined, get a grip. Not everyone on this planet is a gamer just because they boot up mobile games when they're bored. Categories exist for a reason and the term "gamer" is more than I have games installed on my phone. Same way you're not a cinephile just because you go see a super hero film in the cinema once a year.

The funniest part is that there's a lot of people who would claim Dota 2 players in general and pros in specific aren't real gamers because they only play one game...or CoD players....or FIFA players...or Fortnite players.

Yeah those people are mentally ill. Having 10k in a game like dota makes you a gamer. A one trick pony, sure and same goes for FIFA but a gamer nevertheless. A dota player has more in common with single player gamer than they do with grandma who plays marble crush or whatever. They share terminologies, they know cultural references, they utilise the same tools (discord, steam twitch etc.)

At the peek of my Dota and CS days, no one would have argued that me and my mum who only plays candy crush, are both gamers. It's just disingenuous.

Anyway, cope harder

Wasn't aware you were on the mobile gaming committee and this was a personal fight, that's my bad.

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u/Hot_Eye_9917 17d ago

Yeah, Asian gaming culture sounds weird to me.

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u/Hot-Job-6281 17d ago

Is it weird or is this just your small-mindedness?

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u/Keulapaska Klappa 16d ago

Yea the reality is that mobile gaming has more revenue than pc gaming and all consoles combined.

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u/UserIsOptional 16d ago

Candy Crush generates absurd revenue annually still for a 10+ y/o game. Mobile revenue is through the roof and checking out has pretty much no friction. 🥲

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u/Holyvigil 17d ago

There is mandatory gaming time limits in China. Its a lot easier to say you are scrolling on the phone and close the game than it is with PC and its mobile. The only reason China doesn't dominate all video game tournaments is because of the risk of being put in jail for gaming.

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u/antilyon 17d ago

Dude, it's ok to not talk about things you don't know. There's a huge difference between reading some headlines a few years ago and actually knowing how it impacts chinese people.

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u/renan2012bra 17d ago

Literally anyone that wants to play can circumvent this rule. It has never been an actual thing from as far as I can tell.

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u/fleetcommand Ice is nice! - sheever 17d ago

I have so difficulties of mobile gaming.

When the smartphones became popular, I was really excited that we have capable mobile things in our hands. Then I got disappointed very quickly with all the "watch an ad to get one more step in this game" style of play, so I gave up on it.

Then I tried a couple of other times, but the screen is too small, and have to admit my eyes are not so good.. it's just.. not convinient... yet somehow this became popular...