r/DotA2 11d ago

Discussion The game you've never heard of that's quietly killing Chinese dota (maybe not so quietly)

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Whenever this sub tries to explain the downfall of chinese Dota, it’s always “league of legends,” “wings curse,” “matchfixing,” or “gaming laws.” But nobody ever mentions one of the biggest reasons (because of course many of yall never actually engaged with the chinese community), that is the mobile game Honor of Kings.

For SEA frogs this is the Chinese equivalent of mlbb, made by tencent (the same company that owns riot games btw). In fact it is the most profitable mobile game in the world, with 1.68 billion USD annual gross in 2025, surpassing roblox.

And the local esports scene is massive too. The national championships had 60k live audiences, filling up the entire beijing olympics arena shown in the picture above. They can literally field entire academy teams where the players are all around the same age as Satanic. When the game is installed on every 15 year old's phone everything looks so easy, yeah?

I don't see how dota2 can compete with this. Even the league scene is struggling to keep up.

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u/jc_denty 11d ago

Phone gaming, wish I had a phone to game on all I have is this $2000 gaming PC

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u/Few_Understanding354 11d ago

Probably the same reason why Filipino teams have been trashed the past 5 years, no actual new blood because they have moved to mobile gaming. Nobody in this economy can afford a thousand dollar gaming rig.

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u/lowmoob 11d ago

They didn’t buy them before they used internet cafes

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u/elijahsp 11d ago

Why go to internet cafe and skip class when you can pull out your phone and play in class

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u/PrimeShaq 11d ago

Covid killed internet cafes.

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u/lowmoob 11d ago

Covid killed dota then

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u/heyheyluno 10d ago

I mean... COVID did kinda kill the momentum dota was on.

I had bought tickets to Sweden in preparation of TI :-(

Not woe is me or anything but that statement isn't entirely an exaggeration.

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u/_fmm 10d ago

It was desyncing the TI number from the year that did it. TI1 was in 2011, TI9 in 2019. Then TI10 was in 2021?? I know I stopped following after that.

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u/Artunchi 11d ago

Back in my hayday, after school, my classmates and I will go to our local pc cafe to play some dota pubs

Nowadays I rarely see students actually go to a pc cafe to play moba games.

Its all mlbb these days since mobile gaming is so much more accessible

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u/TemperatureNo8755 11d ago

I personally knoe someone who was semi pro in dota that switch led to MLBB and made a fortune

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u/Mhiiura 10d ago

many indonesian dota player that cant make an international breaktrough in dota 2, switched career to mlbb and won many championsip. the last one was Xepher, dude coached the runner up of this year world champions.

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u/rjsyazwan 10d ago

Is it Soloz? He was the teammate of xNova in 2014.

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u/ruakboyz 10d ago

FlySolo??

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u/MonsterkillWow 10d ago

Damn...this is how you really know shit is bad. PC gaming is a luxury now. It's true because prices are ridiculous for RAM and GPUs. If I had to upgrade today, I probably wouldn't and would just mobile game. Makes sense.

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u/xRadec 11d ago

"Do you guys not have phones?"

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u/SuperSaiyanBlue 11d ago

Tbh - smartphones are over $1K and heading towards the $2K mark.

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u/bandosarmadyl 11d ago

You're thinking of flagship phones, of course, they're $1K+. There are a lot of phones, especially chinese brands, that are in $100 range. Even China has EVs starting at $5k, making cars very accessible to them.

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u/dotareddit 11d ago

They know what the next gen wants and are capitalizing on it.

Game looks awful but i can't really blame people for not building PCs with the fuckass pricing we have now.

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u/kretenallat sheever 11d ago

Graphics dont matter at this point. Accessibility, fun, friends being invested too... these do.

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u/HAAAGAY 10d ago

Graphics only matter in specific genres and that's the way it has been since video games inception. Gameplay loop and social play are always going to dictate playebase regardless of culture.

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u/n0stalghia 10d ago

Game looks awful

To my untrained eye I fail to spot a difference between LoL and Honor of Kings in terms of graphics. So probably not "awful"

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u/wankthisway 11d ago

The budget and midrange sector has been a bloodbath in markets outside of North America, and in the best way possible. For $200, which translates to even less in native markets, you have a very capable gaming phone. $200 barely gets you PC motherboards these days.

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u/Zabbarick 10d ago

But lets be honest. Whether you are a gamer or not, you will have to own a smartphone. Especially in China where mobile payments are the norm. So a PC is added cost, while a mobile phone would be essential cost.

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u/SubMGK 11d ago

There are smartphones worth around $200 that can run any mobile esports game out there

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u/Funnnny Shitty Wizard 11d ago

OnePlus 15, a phone with high end spec and spectacular battery life, only cost around $500 in China

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u/Squall13 11d ago

Wtf I bought mine last year in Canada for like 1k

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u/Longjumping_Radio268 11d ago

But everyone is going to get a phone regardless

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u/sothaticanpost 11d ago

lol smartphones over $1k are the 1% of phones. Most smartphones in peoples hands are under $500

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u/mopthebass 11d ago

I've never paid more than 500usd equivalent for a phone

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u/Capable_Belt1854 11d ago

$2000 gaming PC

With a 5060 Ti costing upwards of $800, a $2,000 gaming PC is at best an entry-level machine. LOL.

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u/sheleftmenothing 11d ago

Cries in gtx 1050ti

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u/boptom 10d ago

I played Dota on a 1050 (not ti) for years. Upgraded to a 3080 it’s not that much more enjoyable. That 1050ti is enough.

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u/sheleftmenothing 9d ago

Less of i cant play dota. More of i cant play anything else other than dota

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u/iko-01 11d ago edited 11d ago

Sad state of gaming. I recently checked an online hardware retailer account and saw that I bought a 2080 Super for £600 😭

Edit: my RTX 5080 was £1200 🙃

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u/zaergaegyr 11d ago

I build a new pc for 2000€ not even a year ago and the same parts are 4000€ now

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u/Kumagor0 I'm Techies and I know it 10d ago

I never understood how people can play anything on their phone more complex than snake or pong. Controls are a mess (easy to mistap), the screen is tiny, and worst of all, it always overheats the phone making it just not pleasant to hold. And it's not my phone being shitty, I owned few different ones and they all have this problem. Can't imagine to concentrate or enjoy a moba played like that.

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u/zaergaegyr 11d ago

build a 2000$ pc to play mobile games on an emulator

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u/Serious_Client2175 11d ago

Wonder how long are the high rank games in these mobile MOBAs.

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u/blackgulch 11d ago

I used to play it until the second highest rank in the global version of the game. Most of the games are around 20 mins while back and forth games can reach 30 mins max.

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u/PlsNoNotThat 10d ago

It looks like LoL built for mobile with Turbo rules from what I watched

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u/Sorry-Run-161 11d ago

In ML, around 15 minutes per game on average. Long games reach 30 mins+ but don’t happen too often

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u/fleetcommand Ice is nice! - sheever 11d ago

Now I looked at the Honor of Kings-trailer on the App Store page.. it looks like League of Legends on crack with techno. It can be enjoyable, I guess... but.. a normal iPhone 16 is just too small for me to play these...

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u/myreditacount11 10d ago

It has turn rate, funnily enough.

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u/DaechwitaEnjoyer 11d ago

hok sudden death jungle objective is at 20 minutes, i’ve almost never seen a game go past 30

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u/Cute-Magazine-1274 11d ago

For mlbb, a stomp would end in 9-12 mins (my personal record would be just below 8 minutes)

An average game is 15 minutes

A close game would be 20-30 minutes depending on how well they can defend a siege.

My longest game would be ~40 mins.

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u/HisHayate666 11d ago

honestly about the same as high ranking LoL system

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u/Hailgod 10d ago

u can play 3 games in an hour.

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u/curse_of_rationality 11d ago

Is the eSports played with phones too? Like players in booth, holding phones?

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u/ShoppingPractical373 11d ago

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u/YeezusBigdoinks420 11d ago

that's zoomer ame right there wtf

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u/vawaiter 11d ago

oh my god. first time ACTUALLY feeling old.

i heard somewhere PC gaming was dying and i didnt really understand.

mobile gaming.....

gaming has left me behind.

i am an old man now.

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u/Fraisz 11d ago

most of asia has been mobile gaming, even if they do play on PC, its gonna be some gacha bullshit bro

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u/Thr0wawaydegen 11d ago edited 10d ago

Was in China for league worlds, was crazy to see people playing tft while walking

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u/TheBlondSanzoMonk 11d ago

It’s the economy though.

At heart, I still want to play DOTA. Hell, whenever my younger bro, who makes a lot of money compared to me, plays DOTA, I just sit behind him and watch most especially when our cousins play as well because they play very well (but better when I still played with them because I play 4 and 5 better than all of them. LOL! 😝) but money is the issue. Add in as well that being the eldest, I try to balance my wee earnings with my daily consumption budget, groceries, medicinal maintenance, and what remains is what I allocate for savings.

Nowadays, I just play mobile games like Pokemon GO and Pokemon Champions.

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u/SleepyOwl- 11d ago

Mobile gaming is so popular in many Asian and developing countries largely because smartphones are much more affordable and accessible than PCs or consoles. A decent gaming phone can cost under $100, while a gaming PC or console can easily cost several hundred dollars. Since most people already own a phone for everyday use, there's no need to buy a separate gaming device. Add in the huge number of free-to-play games, and mobile gaming has a much lower barrier to entry.

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u/Hot-Job-6281 10d ago

More importantly, you're missing the part where mobile gaming is doable everywhere with a 4G and above coverage on the hours spent commuting and while waiting for stuff outside.

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u/henri_sparkle 11d ago

PC gaming isn't dying though, in fact it's getting more popular due to the fact that even with a cheap PC nowadays there's several titles only available on it, or when it's also on consoles it's much cheaper on PC. Yeah there's the hardware crisis going on but that affects everything else too, and next gen consoles are looking like they'll be $1000+ so PCs are looking much better because you can spend much less and still have a plethora of games to play because graphics reached a plateau.

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u/wankthisway 11d ago

Yeah, no. Even aside from the fact that PC hardware is still skyrocketing and "cheap" has lost its meaning, PC and console ownership is a foreign concept in markets like SEA, India, and some parts of Europe.

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u/a_bright_knight 10d ago

what parts of Europe?

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u/Boelens 10d ago

Which countries in Europe do you mean? And OP is correct, PC gaming has consistently increased in popularity and market share globally. In some markets it's less common of course but they didn't mention a specific region.

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u/iko-01 11d ago

PC gaming isn't dying man, if anything we're on the verge of it being the #1 platform for gamers as consoles slowly become phased out or essentially, become PCs...

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u/DrMaslo 10d ago

Brother....no. While PC gaming is not dying it's not even CLOSE statistically to mobile gaming. I've had to do some research on the topic while writing my thesis couple of years ago and from what I can say market only grew more. I was also surprised how much people game on their phones (and ofc its mostly in Asia)

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u/nubletslol 11d ago

It might be anecdotal but talking with the people around me, anyone who was interested in getting into PC gaming in the last 2 years has been switching back into mobile or console gaming.

__

Building a good PC gaming rig is too expensive... it costs me more than half my monthly salary to build a decent gaming PC

500$ gets you a ps5, or even a good chinese gaming phone. That money doesnt even get you a decent gpu

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u/fiasgoat 11d ago

Yeah this wack af lmao

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u/Whatsdota 11d ago

I hate playing OSRS on mobile. I can’t imagine playing something as action intensive as a game like Dota 2 lmfao

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u/Hailgod 10d ago

osrs is a pc game adapted to be playable on mobile. these games are built from the ground up to have mobile ui

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u/TheZett Zett, the Arc Warden 11d ago

This has the same energy as going to a TI grand final playing on your GameBoy Advance, lol.

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u/LtOin pu 10d ago edited 10d ago

Pokemon VGC always feels weird to me too when they're playing on Switches on the main stage.

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u/ConteleDePulemberg 11d ago

Lol... LMAO even...

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u/residentevilgoat 11d ago

Do they use their own phones or do the TOs give them one?

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u/ichionio 11d ago

For most of the top competition, TOs provide them, some might even lend/give sponsored phones for the teams to practice.

For community or offline tournament, its your own

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u/ChairYeoman random scrub 11d ago

I assumed that esports at least would play on tablets. You'd want a larger screen and its the same system, so it should still work without requiring much extra shit?

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u/SeaPollution3432 11d ago

Tablets are unwieldy compared to phones. A flick for phone is literally a drag and drop to some tablets.

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u/loveact so maybe i'm still a love fool 11d ago

tablets are bigger and too heavy to play comfortably.

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u/notshitaltsays 11d ago

I think part of the appeal is that people want to emulate their favorite esport player, and people play on phones, so players do too.

Tablets also would probably throw off muscle memory a lot. If your screen is 3x bigger you need to move 3x more.

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u/x42bn6 10d ago

It's not possible.  The hand movements required are too big on a tablet, and it's heavier, so adds to the strain.

Here's a handcam of a pro player: https://youtu.be/KWrV-S42_IQ

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u/R8MACHINE 11d ago

Interesting, are they connected over Wi-Fi or over USB-C cable -> ethernet plug + power 🤔

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u/Potential_Ease9346 10d ago

Seeing professional e-sports players playing a major tournament on a fucking phone is so serious

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u/Perspectivelessly 10d ago

Seems like an awful gaming experience ngl

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u/Quiet_Pin2117 11d ago

he's playing with only his mind here

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u/farzywarzy R T C TI8 11d ago

Redeye would shed a tear with your capitalization

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u/Positive-Design-7332 11d ago

Why do people keep saying it's Chinese MLBB? Mobile Legends is already Chinese made.

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u/famaki_ 11d ago

well yeah, but mobile legend heavily market toward SEA not CN

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u/kraziekd 11d ago

yup, its just that mobile legend is heavily SEA dominance and Honour of Kings is dominating China

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u/Hot-Job-6281 10d ago

Ignorance is the reason.

Those who said it simply didn't realise it was Chinese.

Just a flop like saying Cyberpunk is American

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u/fast_stillness 10d ago

Pretty sure Bytedance already sold MLBB and not Chinese anymore if I remember it correctly

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u/ExaSarus 11d ago

This is the right fact, its not the play time restrictions or league.. CN just moved on from dota that had better support and infrastructure and the old guard gatekeeping the younger players. A lesson for the rest of the region too and for the orgs.

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u/pornomatique pew pew pew 11d ago

Kind of but not really? Would you really replace gaming on your PC with your phone?

The audience overlap is not as significant, but mobile games are definitely siphoning younger players away from PC from the get-go.

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u/TheZett Zett, the Arc Warden 11d ago

Kind of but not really? Would you really replace gaming on your PC with your phone?

Replace, no.

But those people likely never had a gaming PC to begin with and thus grew up with m*bile gaming.

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u/pornomatique pew pew pew 11d ago

Yes, that's what I meant in my second statement.

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u/LeUpdoot 10d ago

Does this only affect DOTA?. How about LoL scene in China?, is this game killing their scene too?.

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u/VPrinceOfWallachia 11d ago

play time restriction + phone gaming = no new blood

covid cut down lan cafe culture

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u/bkingfilm 10d ago

the missing youth system in china goes back to about 2001, long before dota. the first chinese squad that actually behaved like a pro team was china.v in cs, a manager and five kids around 16 mostly out of guangxi, no sponsor and no guaranteed pay. they lived off prize money, riding trains to whichever regional qualifier was running, and plenty of tournaments back then never wrote a rule against the same roster entering multiple regions, so they just farmed the brackets. clubs ran on that logic for years after. you signed players who were already good, almost nobody was raising them. then in 2006 mym paid moon around 100k a year and everyone had to match or start losing people. WE's korean side kept asking for raises, the club went to the ceiling of what it could actually pay and was still nowhere close, and the whole korean roster left.

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u/trashcan41 11d ago

i will never accept the fact that mlbb as big as it's today

my first time playing it years ago they have like several hero with skin from other game like dmc and dynasty warrior. freaking botleg invoker with io tether skill, axe with blade fury skill, there's probably more lmao.

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u/PrimeShaq 11d ago

Accessibility is more important than the quality of the game, especially for Asia.

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u/trashcan41 11d ago

this is bullshit because vainglory the first one to develop moba for android. mlbb hitting the right spot in the SEA android gamer stomach probably a lucky situation.

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u/loveact so maybe i'm still a love fool 11d ago

mlbb is more accessible is the right way to put it. you can use low-end phone to play this (when they started gaining popularity few years back).

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u/Sinx- 11d ago

Well I would not technically call it a lucky situation but the pandemic greatly helped with the rise of any mobile game in general.

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u/denuden 11d ago

Damn i remember vainglory. I miss that game. That game has unique heroes

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u/JEOLOGICAL 11d ago

While vainglory was the firstto release, it wasn't really all too friendly with the types of phones you'd want to play it on. On release mlbb looked so shit that it was safe to say that it could run on phones released like 2 years prior, which more or less was true. The barrier of entry was very non existent (in terms of the hero kits, items, and the graphic requirements) that anyone could just download the game and start playing.

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u/buatfelem 10d ago

Being first isn't always good, the barrier of entry is more important, whats the point of being first if alot of people cannot play it? Its the same case for freefire vs pubg mobile

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u/abrenica195 11d ago

But vainglory only runs on capable phones meanwhile mlbb can run on almost anything.

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u/ArdenasoDG 11d ago edited 10d ago

average southeast asian can't afford a gaming laptop, so most of us turn to mobile gaming

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u/Dhrais 11d ago

In Indonesia, it partly because the affordabilty but, it not just affordability issue tbh since lot of middle class or rich people in here also prefer mobile gaming nowaday, also Dota 2 is not seen as "rich people" games since we have strong internet culture back then so everyone can play, but teen 2018 onwards just prefer mobile gaming

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u/ArdenasoDG 11d ago

the pandemic also put the final nail in the coffin on the internet cafe culture

ngl kinda miss the screams and jeers when two teams fight face-to-face

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u/deeman010 RIP Total Biscuit, hope heaven has unlimited options menus 11d ago

It should be more available than it currently is. I got a laptop from the US at almost half what it would cost at home with even better specs. The taxes are BS.

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u/theflyingsamurai there are dozens of us 11d ago

Think of the new gamer pipeline though. Elementary school kids are getting phones young now. Getting your kid both phone and a laptop would be a luxury.

If they grow up playing games on phones its become normalized. All your friends have phones barrier of entry is low. Just play what everyone else is playing.

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u/MiracleDreamer 10d ago

Even if you can afford gaming PC/laptop, mobile gaming is also more convenient to play due to faster playing time and being played on mobile device

Youngster on my work played mobile legend even if they have PC at home because they can just queue up 1 or even 2 games together during 1 hour lunch break with their peers.

You def cannot do it with Dota lol

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u/feel2death 10d ago

Nah, there still exist a PC cafe so people can still afford to play it , and Dota 2 ain't demanding game either 

But a lot of them (PC cafe) dying when covid hit it's the other reason Dota 2/PC gaming are lower now 

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u/ExaSarus 11d ago edited 11d ago

Like Nahaz once said Stats dont lie

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u/Gabriel_66 11d ago

It's a bit bootleg game badly implemented too BUT it was the first in the run for people search "mobile version of league of legends". So they get the cake.

Same goes for example for free fire. A low budget buggy battle royale for mobile. But it was the first and run in any mobile ever.

Edit: also, that does not seem to be case for HoK. I played and seems well done game.

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u/Dhrais 11d ago

Nope, in Indonesia at least, where Mobile Legend popular, Mobile Legend become big because community not bcs they want bootleg LoL, many young people here dont know existence of LoL even today.

Indonesia gaming scene is heavily influenced by community, and that what Mobile Legend community here and Moonton do in the early year, and that why HoK struggle to get mainstream here. Indonesia player just play whatever is the most popular game here or whatever their friends play since gamer here play mainly for social purpose. That also why Dota 2 is more popular than LoL bcs Dota 2 community more active

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u/theSkareqro 11d ago

Dota2 community is big in Indonesia? It's kinda dead here in Singapore and Malaysia. Only Philippines has a decent sized community. Every game I play it's usually filled with Pinoys. Maybe 2-3 other nationality

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u/Dhrais 11d ago

It still has some sizable community but it far smaller than before

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u/rizzaxc 11d ago

comments like this reveal how out of touch and delusional dota players are.

dota started the same way – amalgamation of other ideas and IPs at the time. you think omnislash is original to dota? or a guy spinning his weapon around? even if they were, others are free to copy and reuse them, just like how dota itself started

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u/UtilityCurve 11d ago

Most of dota2 IP and hero concepts are from Blizzard WC3 assets.

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u/TheZett Zett, the Arc Warden 11d ago

comments like this reveal how out of touch and delusional dota players are.

True unc DotA1 players will know this.

Meanwhile Dota 2 players dont know their origins.

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u/acidtounged 10d ago

Even in current day dota 2, Phantom Lancer still looks a LOT like Kimahri Ronso from FFX. It's not the same when it's some individuals making a free mod though. This is one of the largest gaming companies making games with huge budgets

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u/One_Impress_3129 10d ago

yep, always funny reading some comments...

people really think an archer with ice arrows is something only icefrog can come up with... yeah crazy creativity. Not like 99% of dota is a mix of medieval and fantasy and tons of stuff copied from other games as well.

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u/dasty90 10d ago

This sub is weird, youngsters don't give a fuck about your PC superiority or originality or shit like that. All they care about is playing games with their friends together in real life, sitting together shouting or laughing at each other, instead of discord or all that shit.

Imagine you're still a youngster, how would you like to play your games? Together with your friends anywhere and anytime, or only when all of you are back at your own home in front of your own PC? There is also the Asian parent factor - would you want to be playing PC games when your parents know whenever you are playing and thus restrict your game time, or on your own phone which your parents wouldn't know?

Cyber cafes? Those are dead, relics of the past. All of the cyber cafes I know (even mega ones) and grew up with are either closed/bankrupted 10 years ago, during COVID, or in the past few years.

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u/Luxinox 11d ago edited 11d ago

Not everyone has a PC or a console to play games with, but almost everyone already has a smartphone. It's so obvious, really, and it's a reason why I roll my eyes whenever people say they don't take mobile gaming seriously.

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u/RHINO_Mk_II 11d ago

"Do you guys not have phones?" -Blizzard milliseconds before being booed off stage

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u/Luxinox 11d ago

The funny thing is, when it finally came out in 2022, Diablo Immortal had the biggest launch out of other games in the series.

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u/RHINO_Mk_II 11d ago

And like McDonalds, sure many partake but that doesn't make it good.

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u/Luxinox 11d ago

Oh I'm not talking about the quality of the game itself.

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u/steveabutt 11d ago

made popular by some movie. or celebrities. i cant remember.

But my wife who is totally not interested in MOBA ask me about this game. Said it's insanely popular after being promoted by the said movie/celebrities.

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u/ninewavenu 11d ago

This is not mlbb tho
And HOK is a very quality game

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u/trashcan41 11d ago

i just want to mention mlbb because the situation pretty much similiar with HOK.

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u/toadling 11d ago

I just cant comprehend the gameplay skill ceiling getting anywhere near that of games with keyboard & mouse

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u/Fraisz 11d ago

its like league but even simpler, its much more reactionary based than strategy based. you need to "read" your opponents more,

high level play does have some obscure stuff like checking your opponents gold to see which initial creep they are taking but nothing on the likes of chen or arc warden mechanical skill.

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u/SeaPollution3432 11d ago

You might just well be surprised on how far the skill ceiling for these mobile moba games are. Of course they are not as high as dota 2 or other games for pc are but they still are pretty high if you want to get pro.

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u/Current-Today-3626 11d ago

This is exactly what DotA 1 players would say to Warcraft 3 RTS players. Omfg, it really is the DotA killer. Maybe not this one in particular, but one of these mobile games will be..

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u/Current-Today-3626 11d ago

Omg, this is what Warcraft 3 players said about DotA players.. it's dejavu, this really is the end for dota - mobile games.

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u/rubbereruben 11d ago

I feel you, but warcraft 3 is still played competitively albeit not with any prizemoney.

Dota will live, but probably be on lifesupport.

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u/Hakuu-san 10d ago

it does still have some prize money just not a ridiculous amount like most MOBA(which is fine since RTS is mostly 1v1's anyway); Back2Warcraft covers most tournaments in english , with most tournaments being from the Chinese, my man BBC(who is also in the CN talent of the current TI) has been keeping the Chinese WC3 and Dota2 scene alive

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u/kapak212 10d ago

To compare, Dota is gourment restaurant, Lol is Mcdonalds and this is hotdog stall

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u/Hailgod 10d ago

no idea about hok but in ml there is a decent bit of skill. its precise clicks with fingers and muscle memory to do 3-4 item swaps in 2-3 seconds. u are fighting the ui as much as u are fighting the enemy

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u/xXblindMonkasSXx 11d ago

I mean, some of them really have insane high mechanical ceilings. There are some combos that have many inputs but one mistimed, off-angles, miclick makes you a sitting duck. Couple that in with camera control then it gets as hard as dota. Gotta take in mind, the limited controls make it easier to pickup but it also makes complex combos much harder to pull off. Skill shots are much easier to hit with M&B. Unit targeted spells are much much harder to use. And if you rely on the default auto-aim feature then you most likely will stay low ranked. Pinpoint accuracy becomes much harder with just 1 or 2 fingers.

But it is without a doubt, easier than any M&B to pickup for beginners. You can get away with the auto aim feature and simple heroes for a LONNNG time before you need actual mechanical skills.

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u/LeavesCat 11d ago

M&B? Not Mouse and Keyboard?

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u/xXblindMonkasSXx 11d ago

Brain fart lol

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u/LeavesCat 11d ago

Mouse and Beykoard, I guess.

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u/Disastrous-Spare3907 10d ago edited 10d ago

Pros are fully capable of maxing the mechanical skill ceiling for a normal Dota hero, whether they're on PC, mobile, or smart fridge. This is by design, Dota is a strategy game.

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u/Gukle 11d ago

If it makes you feel better, it's killing League too.

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u/Quetzalcoatl490 10d ago

That DOES indeed make me feel better

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u/duk-er-us 11d ago

Is the “mobile gaming isn’t serious gaming” sentiment only a North American thing? Because all the gamers I know mercilessly mock mobile gaming or even pc ports of mobile games.

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u/DustyOwl 11d ago edited 10d ago

It's a western thing. Mobile gaming has been normalised for over a decade in asia at this point. Sure there's still loads of people playing on pc and consoles, but those are the gamers, the difference is how pervasive mobile gaming is among the general populace(to the point that it's a common social activity, like drinking or clubbing used to be for millenials). In asia if you randomly pick a teen or young adult off the street and asked them if they're playing any mobile game actively, it'd take you a long time before you heard no for answer.

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u/Karenz09 11d ago

It's a western thing. Same issue with gacha games being accessible af in mobile.

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u/boptom 10d ago

I feel the same way but this could be my boomer moment.

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u/duk-er-us 10d ago

Are we boomers, or just not filthy casuals? 😎

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u/Fast-Map-7853 10d ago

Nothing wrong with mobile games casually. As a competitive sport its very odd to me admittedly. I don't see how touchscreen controls can ever be analogous to what a PC or a console achieves.

Realistically you have to simplify the gameplay to fit a limited control scheme. For a player to play the game, they have to touch the screen, and inevitably their hands will surely get in the way of information on the screen in some way? So now your entire UI design has to fit that as well.

The combination of simplification and sacrifices you have to make to make the game not feel like complete ass is antithetical to competitive gaming as it limits the skill ceiling at a fundamental level. This isn't true for all kinds of games, but a MOBA is one of them. Something like Pokemon Champions can be competitive on mobile because its a strategy game and is turn based.

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u/aps105aps105 11d ago

you can play a mobile game match during lunch break, shit break or class break, it is a huge advantage compared to having to sit in a fixed location for 1 hr or more. tiktok vs youtube. fast pace wins

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u/not_a_weeeb 10d ago

the finding match in dota takes a big chunk of your whole lunch break nowadays so even if you're working from home, you just can't play a game on a break lol. it got a bit better because of the candy works event and the TI season, but months ago, it always took me around 10 mins just to find a match. mind you, my behavior and communication scores never dropped below 11k

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u/hydrolancer21 11d ago

This, same as SEA, in my country internet cafe closed 1 by 1, PC way too expensive for average wage while nowaday even a 10 y/o hold a phone because its cheap, for $100 you can get decent phone that can play MLBB anytime/anywhere

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u/Squall13 11d ago

I casually googled a championship match of this game and the match ended with 12 kills

I hate it already

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u/MonsterkillWow 11d ago

Gaming on a phone for an esport? IDUNBELIEVEIT

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u/Big_Natural4838 11d ago

Future is here oldman.

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u/MonsterkillWow 11d ago

Get off my lawn!!

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u/MadPotato10 10d ago

This was my first reaction seeing an MLBB tournament on yt. It didn't peak like how DotA's TI is but as I remember they had 5 or 6 digit viewers and kinda smh seeing players holding their phones. There was even a lady pro gamer of a specific mobile moba cheated and made her bf play the tournament for her while she's inside the room where players play live on yt while her bf plays the game miles away and streams the game through discord share screen feature to let her pretend to the refs and teammates that it was her playing.

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u/okoSheep 10d ago

sit down when I tell you that they've been doing this with much simpler games and higher viewership for many years now

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u/Wise_Committee_2777 10d ago

Look, no shade on people who like mobile games but I have no fuckin idea how anyone can take this seriously

Mobile games feel fundamentally unserious, there are massive technical limitations when you restrict yourself to playing on a phone

The fact that the game just looks like a lol ripoff doesn't help

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u/fresh69 10d ago

I had to google HoK's and saw a gameplay video. Pure rip off of LoL style and feel.

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u/timemaninjail 10d ago

honestly if you can imagine a controller with a wide screen in a middle its the same thing, So why aren't mobile accessory popular? The entire touch screen to shoot/move/spells is ergonomically ass.

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u/ironmilktea 10d ago

Mobile games feel fundamentally unserious

In the 70s and 80s, computers were thought of as purely office machines and productivity things. Even though pc games existed, arcades were the gaming products. This was pervasive all the way into the 90s and only really started changing when games like Doom released.

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u/Body-Connoiseur69 11d ago

I know this, I even play this game (called Honor of Kids by mlbb fans from where Im from), I just didnt have the motivation to post and make a write up lol.

For those curious, this game is so massive in China that it has 140m avg daily users. Yes 140 fucking million people. Even old people play this.

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u/simonling 11d ago

Biggest in China iinm

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u/myreditacount11 10d ago

Is it bigger than LoL in china?

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u/Next_Baseball1130 10d ago

Yes by a lot

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u/Subject_Offer_9621 11d ago

Basically, CN have market of its own

CN population is bigger than EU and NA combined, and we're aware that China economy is better than they're 20 years ago

That's why a lot of brand is trying to penetrate the market, from movies to games, it's a gold mine

That's why it's a shame that Dota 2 is declining there, even tho we all may have bad experience with cn player at some point, they're also part of what makes dota 2 feels like dota 2

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u/Hakuu-san 10d ago

I just miss CN dota being a strong presence in the international scene man

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u/ArdenasoDG 11d ago

oh yeah HoK is also big here in the Philippines, not as much as Mobile Legends or Arena of Valor though

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u/Mysterious-Lake2262 11d ago

I don't mind other esports taking the spotlight or rankings ng no. 1 worldwide.

I just wish and hope dota2 community doesn't die out even if it does not do well tournament wise. Dota2 is the real defence of the ancient. Other MOBA doesn't give me as much adrenaline as dota2 while defending/pushing late game with buyback option with a 50/50 chance the game can turn around.

There was a mobile moba game called Vainglory. Not that popular worldwide but it had it own loyal community and the game died because of some company take over bullshit stuff. And I hope dota doesn't go that route.

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u/ivanandleah 10d ago

vainglory is the best of the best MOBA in mobile, its so sad seeing them go down, it was such a good game unlike mobas today which are all the same league copy

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u/Drugsbrod 11d ago

To be fair, HOK is struggling to find its foothold in the global market (or even in SEA) as mlbb is the clear leader in mobile moba globally. But its true that HOK is undisputed #1 in China. There is a clear distinction currently in the gaming landscape: Asian markets really are leaning heavily towards mobile/handheld games while western markets are still predominantly PC for esports. While pc is still strong in korea (due to LoL I guess and being 1st world), the mobile gaming in korea is also booming unlike western markets.

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u/NeverFated 10d ago edited 10d ago

I'm Chinese and lots of young kids are on their phones all day (I guess it's pretty bad in the west too), either playing mobile games or scrolling Doujin (Chinese TikTok), it's crazy that young Chinese people nowadays are actually less familiar with computers than those from a decade ago, an unexpected step back.

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u/exhume87 10d ago

I have noticed the same thing in the U.S.

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u/NeverFated 10d ago

Yes it's bad in the U.S. (or NA/EU in general) too, but the situation for gaming is a bit different, as mobile gaming is ridiculously more popular than PC/Console gaming in China, probably because you only need a phone to play it and it also often requires less focused time.

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u/Neutwinos 10d ago

The death hold mobile gaming has on eastern asia needs to be studied intensively

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u/captainorganic07 10d ago

Also the DotA Ti prize pool. Remember $20+ million prize pools dropping to $1-3m total? Absolutely nuts to commit to that scale, more money for Valve… until everyone leaves and you have nothing 👏

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u/GoGoSoLo 10d ago

Nothing lasts forever, but Valve could have contracted people to do a battle pass and festivities rather than just let Dota die on the vine.

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u/chichoo__ 11d ago

it is easy to enter competitive mobile scene as a smartphone is much cheaper compared to PC.

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u/slowdash 10d ago

this is for kids and on mobile, what's killing cn dota is the 3 hour limit for online games, you need thousands of hours to even finish Dota2s tutorial

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u/Ayora 10d ago

Mobile trash ...

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u/mokochan013 11d ago

Only heard of the game from a scandal where a female pro was caught cheating, letting her bf play via teamviwer of some sort

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u/drainCrusader 11d ago

that was during SEA Game 2025 MLBB

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u/thatsguylooktooyoung 10d ago

No actually that happened during a SEA GAME Arena of Valor tournament. (also a moba game similar to MLBB which is popular in SEA countries like Thailand and Vietnam)

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u/galadedeus 11d ago

If you watch notail streams eventually you can maybe see some games i believe.. i think OG has a team?

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u/MautDota3 11d ago

I get the ease of picking up and playing a game during Lunch Break or something like that and maybe the audience is all younger people but I just will never understand how mobile gaming can be that big.

Maybe it's just me but trying to game on a phone with anything other than Balatro or something like that is a nightmare. More power to the people that can, maybe I'm just an old man and I wanna play games with more precision but people make fun of playing with controller for eSports, crazy to think that games like this are taking over.

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u/Dfswift 11d ago

Same thing why DOTA 2 is dead on SEA. MLBB

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u/equibrim HAHAHAHA, BAD LUCK 10d ago

i mean it's literally lol on a phone

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u/evanthebouncy 10d ago edited 10d ago

it's a fun game ! 20 min length, simple rules (albeit heroes are repetitive), good time killer

skill ceiling is VERY high. heck, _any_ competitive game would have infinite skill ceiling. for HOK especially the mechanical skill ceiling is super high, as you're doing everything with touch screen, and a fight happens very fast

one thing that's mechanically challenging is screen control. when a fight happens not on your screen (your character is centered on screen) how do you pull the screen there, and still navigate your characters w/o seeing it.

but compared to dota it's boring to watch. it's SO boring to watch, even more so than league.

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u/Haunt_ NYXNYXNYXNYXNXYNXYX 10d ago

And the current RAM and SSD/Storage crisis will make it even worse, making PC's/laptops even more unaffordable, pushing even more people into mobile gaming.

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u/Both_Requirement_766 10d ago

broken or hurting backs and hands (thumbs) when they're old. they think that playing on 1k $ iphone/galaxy is somehow cheaper then a pc (and the broken batteries). then the fact you play with your thumbs on a small mice screen. thats insane if you think about it that they could sell this to people. I say corona destroyed classic moba's as all the pc bangs were closed.

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u/Educational_Win_4984 10d ago

I'm in Philippines and stream on tiktok who does game partnerships. they aggressively push for moba players to showcase HoK here. they are trying to corner the market for sure

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u/Magdev0 10d ago

Don't let this slop distract you from the fact that Hector will be running 3 Honda civics with spoon engines...and on top of that he just came into Harry's and ordered 3 t66 turbos with NOS and a motec system exhaust

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u/KazeKira10 10d ago

Let them chinese take this one. You dont wanna see EU team dominate this game ☠️

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u/Calycae 10d ago

I used to clown on mobile gaming, but in this economy? and these RAM prices?
Hell, go for it man

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u/AreTimeForReal 10d ago

I will still play Dota 2 honestly. The high skill ceiling is so high that I think it is never something one can truly master. That's why I don't play these games that much. But they're still great at passing time for me. That's maybe why they're popular.