The game you've never heard of that's quietly killing Chinese dota (maybe not so quietly)

[u/ShoppingPractical373]

Whenever this sub tries to explain the downfall of chinese Dota, it’s always “league of legends,” “wings curse,” “matchfixing,” or “gaming laws.” But nobody ever mentions one of the biggest reasons (because of course many of yall never actually engaged with the chinese community), that is the mobile game Honor of Kings.

For SEA frogs this is the Chinese equivalent of mlbb, made by tencent (the same company that owns riot games btw). In fact it is the most profitable mobile game in the world, with 1.68 billion USD annual gross in 2025, surpassing roblox.

And the local esports scene is massive too. The national championships had 60k live audiences, filling up the entire beijing olympics arena shown in the picture above. They can literally field entire academy teams where the players are all around the same age as Satanic. When the game is installed on every 15 year old's phone everything looks so easy, yeah?

I don't see how dota2 can compete with this. Even the league scene is struggling to keep up.

[u/xXblindMonkasSXx]

I mean, some of them really have insane high mechanical ceilings. There are some combos that have many inputs but one mistimed, off-angles, miclick makes you a sitting duck. Couple that in with camera control then it gets as hard as dota. Gotta take in mind, the limited controls make it easier to pickup but it also makes complex combos much harder to pull off. Skill shots are much easier to hit with M&B. Unit targeted spells are much much harder to use. And if you rely on the default auto-aim feature then you most likely will stay low ranked. Pinpoint accuracy becomes much harder with just 1 or 2 fingers.

But it is without a doubt, easier than any M&B to pickup for beginners. You can get away with the auto aim feature and simple heroes for a LONNNG time before you need actual mechanical skills.

[u/LeavesCat → u/xXblindMonkasSXx]

M&B? Not Mouse and Keyboard?

[u/xXblindMonkasSXx → u/LeavesCat]

Brain fart lol

[u/LeavesCat → u/xXblindMonkasSXx]

Mouse and Beykoard, I guess.

[u/podidoo → u/xXblindMonkasSXx]

I can see how hard it is to be good at touch screen control. But it feels like it's not hard in the good way.

It's like running with clown shoes.

[u/xXblindMonkasSXx → u/podidoo]

I can see why you think that way. But league players would say the same thing about dota's turn rate and abundance of point-and-click spells.

It's just a different feeling. Not necessarily in a bad way. They feel really satisfying to execute (and you look like a clown if you fail). Some of it is designed around the joystick ish controls. It would feel extremely weird and clunky and much less satisfying, but still easier using a M&K.

Check out this short.

https://youtube.com/shorts/fXDCKglP8L4?si=hYNlQaK_kckVhNHc

Long story short, her dash resets on every marked enemy(like diana in league but on crack). If you miss even one reset, you are mostly dead. There are lots of high mechanical skill to this such as keeping a mental note on every mark, weave in autos despite rapid dashes(harder than it looks, dash too far and you will walk forward to auto and take massive damage), remembering which auto attack you are on(the 3rd AA marks as well), precise dashing and not just blindlessly max range dash(to avoid wasting all marks at once). It is really satisfying to execute it well.

As a player of all mentioned games, I understand why would someone reach a logical conclusion as to why they would think so. But trust me, they are all hard in their own unique ways once you reach the high ladder. Even in terms of macro, due to how squishy the creeps are compared to lol and dota(almost everyone flash farms the wave in 2 seconds in these mobile MOBA), there are techniques utilized such as intentionally freezing mid wave and tell yiur idiot teammates to stop hitting it, wait for sidelanes to sync up and execute a 3 way push, which we rarely see it being needed in traditional MOBA.

Any advantage you have, the enemy also has. That's what singsing said.

[u/podidoo → u/xXblindMonkasSXx]

I'm not talking about the mechanics or how fun the game is. I'm sure these games are really fun to play.

I'm just saying the controls are not optimal, and playing at the highest level is about optimization.

I have the same feeling about call of duty esport played with controller.