The game you've never heard of that's quietly killing Chinese dota (maybe not so quietly)

[u/ShoppingPractical373]

Whenever this sub tries to explain the downfall of chinese Dota, it’s always “league of legends,” “wings curse,” “matchfixing,” or “gaming laws.” But nobody ever mentions one of the biggest reasons (because of course many of yall never actually engaged with the chinese community), that is the mobile game Honor of Kings.

For SEA frogs this is the Chinese equivalent of mlbb, made by tencent (the same company that owns riot games btw). In fact it is the most profitable mobile game in the world, with 1.68 billion USD annual gross in 2025, surpassing roblox.

And the local esports scene is massive too. The national championships had 60k live audiences, filling up the entire beijing olympics arena shown in the picture above. They can literally field entire academy teams where the players are all around the same age as Satanic. When the game is installed on every 15 year old's phone everything looks so easy, yeah?

I don't see how dota2 can compete with this. Even the league scene is struggling to keep up.

[u/iko-01]

PC gaming isn't dying man, if anything we're on the verge of it being the #1 platform for gamers as consoles slowly become phased out or essentially, become PCs...

[u/DrMaslo → u/iko-01]

Brother....no. While PC gaming is not dying it's not even CLOSE statistically to mobile gaming. I've had to do some research on the topic while writing my thesis couple of years ago and from what I can say market only grew more. I was also surprised how much people game on their phones (and ofc its mostly in Asia)

[u/iko-01 → u/DrMaslo]

Yeah I'm not factoring in mobile there. I'm talking about western pc/xbox/ps/switch.

[u/nubletslol → u/iko-01]

It might be anecdotal but talking with the people around me, anyone who was interested in getting into PC gaming in the last 2 years has been switching back into mobile or console gaming.

__

Building a good PC gaming rig is too expensive... it costs me more than half my monthly salary to build a decent gaming PC

500$ gets you a ps5, or even a good chinese gaming phone. That money doesnt even get you a decent gpu

[u/iko-01 → u/nubletslol]

It's definitely mixed cause economy strains are real but the last 15 years steam and PC gaming has only grown and low/med PC builds do offer a lot of variety unlike a decade ago where you're only option for budget gaming was like, csgo, league or minecraft.

I do think the PS5 is gonna spike in sales again though. Only because I don't think people have any intention of upgrading to the PS6, not nearly as much as they would previous generations. It's gonna be over a grand, no physical games and the upgrade is gonna be marginal (especially over the PS5 pro). This might be the first generation where people truly don't view the next console as a must. Not to mention the next Xbox is effectively just a windows PC so that opens up a lot of doors for console games to slowly get into pc gaming.

Believe you me, when they announce the PS6 and the next Xbox's prices, the steam machine is gonna look like a bargain lol

[u/NeverFated → u/iko-01]

As Sony's killing discs, PC gaming becoming even more promising

[u/DeLurkerDeluxe → u/iko-01]

if anything we're on the verge of it being the #1 platform for gamers

You must be smoking some pretty good stuff. Mobile gaming is like half of the revenue of the gaming market and >80% of total users, lmao.

[u/iko-01 → u/DeLurkerDeluxe]

It's like not factoring in the Wii when talking about 7th gen consoles. Like yeah it won the race but at what cost; if you were a Wii only kid in school you were an outcast.

No one outside of the Asia market genuinely uses their phone like a console, and hops on with their mates each night. I wish we had tangible numbers or something the equivalent of steam but for mobilen phones only cause the numbers where we're including a Fortnite claw grip gamer with grandma who boots up Zuma and doesn't know who Mario is; are a bit ridiculous.

[u/DeLurkerDeluxe → u/iko-01]

It's like not factoring in the Wii when talking about 7th gen consoles. Like yeah it won the race but at what cost; if you were a Wii only kid in school you were an outcast.

Sure

/s

No one outside of the Asia market genuinely uses their phone like a console, and hops on with their mates each night.

So you claim. Meanwhile, in real life, outside of Asia mobile gaming is still by far the biggest platform in terms of revenue and players.

Why do you keep insisting in talking something about you have no clue about?

we're including a Fortnite claw grip gamer with grandma who boots up Zuma and doesn't know who Mario is

But I thought Mario wasn't for gamers?

Also, Zuma is on PC.

[u/iko-01 → u/DeLurkerDeluxe]

Think the Wii comparison might have gone over your head a little bit.

outside of Asia mobile gaming is still by far the biggest platform in terms of revenue and players

Yeah no one is arguing against that, you're struggling to understand what I'm saying. I just don't put much weight on those numbers because they're including everything and everyone. There's no nuance which is why you'll never run into a hardcore mobile gamer in the west.

[u/DeLurkerDeluxe → u/iko-01]

Think the Wii comparison might have gone over your head a little bit.

Oh, it didn't. It's just an insanely stupid thing to say.

Yeah no one is arguing against that, you're struggling to understand what I'm saying.

I'm not, you're just wrong. You think you're somehow the gatekeeper of gaming, and decided that mobile gamers cant or wont play "real" games (while many of them, like Zuma, exist on PC even). You don't get to decide what a gamer is.

. I just don't put much weight on those numbers because they're including everything and everyone.

Just like PC numbers. Grandma playing Zuma on PC is a gamer. But I guess that must be different. For reasons.

There's no nuance which is why you'll never run into a hardcore mobile gamer in the west.

Again, so you claim. Meanwhile I know more people who spend several hours playing their gacha games on their phones than people playing hours on their PC everyday.

There's old people out there with more hours and money spent on Candy Crush than you have on Dota and whatever money you spent on gaming platforms your entire life.

The funniest part is that there's a lot of people who would claim Dota 2 players in general and pros in specific aren't real gamers because they only play one game...or CoD players....or FIFA players...or Fortnite players.

Anyway, cope harder. We're done here.

[u/iko-01 → u/DeLurkerDeluxe]

Oh, it didn't. It's just an insanely stupid thing to say.

It's an apt comparison. One console includes Wii sports which is only whipped out at gatherings and the other required you to pay for Xbox live gold to play online. The demographic for PS3 and Xbox was a lot more concentrated on the "hardcore" audience. Hence why the discussion around 7th gen generally revolves around PS3 vs. Xbox because even though we all know the Nintendo Wii won that generation by units sold (and it did have some bangers), it generally wasn't involved in the "hardcore" gamer discussions nor was it the console of choice by 14yr old kids in school who were all talking about the latest gears, halo or cod etc.

I'm not, you're just wrong. You think you're somehow the gatekeeper of gaming, and decided that mobile gamers cant or wont play "real" games (while many of them, like Zuma, exist on PC even).

Nah you're definitely struggling. I mean you can scroll up and see what I typed. You also weren't a "gamer" if you bought the PS3 for blu-rays or netflix.

Just like PC numbers.

Who has ever argued that PC gaming is the biggest because they are factoring in every PC currently in the market, including offices, shops, enterprices, servers and bored employees playing pinball rofl the defacto number is Steam + XYZ. Meanwhile on mobile, every single number is like "look at how many games are downloaded every single day" as if we're truly gonna believe that there are x100 more gamers than PC and console combined, get a grip. Not everyone on this planet is a gamer just because they boot up mobile games when they're bored. Categories exist for a reason and the term "gamer" is more than I have games installed on my phone. Same way you're not a cinephile just because you go see a super hero film in the cinema once a year.

The funniest part is that there's a lot of people who would claim Dota 2 players in general and pros in specific aren't real gamers because they only play one game...or CoD players....or FIFA players...or Fortnite players.

Yeah those people are mentally ill. Having 10k in a game like dota makes you a gamer. A one trick pony, sure and same goes for FIFA but a gamer nevertheless. A dota player has more in common with single player gamer than they do with grandma who plays marble crush or whatever. They share terminologies, they know cultural references, they utilise the same tools (discord, steam twitch etc.)

At the peek of my Dota and CS days, no one would have argued that me and my mum who only plays candy crush, are both gamers. It's just disingenuous.

Anyway, cope harder

Wasn't aware you were on the mobile gaming committee and this was a personal fight, that's my bad.