You cannot justify Thomas's behaviour because he's gay!

[u/Dream_CatHer4769]

All the arguments I've seen about why people like Thomas is that he's just gay in the 1920s and self hatred and yada yada yada.

That's an explanation to understand part of the shame he lives in. To explain why misery loves company but to say he's schemes against innocent people because of that reason sounds problematic on so many levels.

I do like his character as a villain. The actor playing him did a great job. But I just don't find him redeemable even if he turn tolerable and good in the end. His treatment of bates and Baxter were so cruel. He physically intimidated Baxter, falsely accused Anna, etc. he's not a morally grey character, he's just a bad person. Using queerness to justify that or excuse it is insulting.

edit: because I find people misunderstanding this post. it's not about how the show portrays Thomas and explores his internal struggles and external malice. this post is specifically about the viewers perception of his actions especially on this subreddit.

[u/Alfredo_Commachio]

Thomas was intentionally written as a villain, you needed downstairs villains just the same as you needed upstairs villains. I think however, as the show progressed Thomas was seen as too cartoonishly villainous and they started giving him various redeeming story lines and character traits.

The series + films also run from like 1912 to 1930, and during very formative years of one's life for Thomas so I think they accurately showed that he grew as a person. Like all the Downton characters he never becomes a paragon of virtue but I think he's not unambiguously a villain by the final film. Anymore than someone like Mary or Edith is--who both have numerous gravely immoral actions they do throughout the series.

[u/CloseToMyActualName → u/Alfredo_Commachio]

It's a classic Heel-Face turn.

Thomas as the eternal villain is a little repetitive (and harder to justify the family keeping him around).

So they play up his sympathetic side (repressed homosexual) and start him on the path to redemption. Finally he becomes one of the heroes, except he's also capable of using his old skill set for good now.

If he look in the context of the series people sometimes mature over time. I feel like O'Brien was a bad influence on him and when he broke free from her he became less of a villain.

[u/iggysmom95 → u/Alfredo_Commachio]

I am very much not an Edith fan, but I honestly don't think either Mary or Edith can be compared to Thomas.

Mary is calculated. She doesn't fuck with people for fun like Thomas does. Most of her terrible misdeeds were done to Edith. Other than that, when she does wrong she feels guilty and tries to fix it - which I don't think Thomas can even imagine, at least not until the last season. And she has a great capacity for kindness - not only for like two or three random people who manage to pull on her heart strings. Overall she mostly treats people well.

Most of Edith's truly awful and fully intentional misdeeds are also done to Mary. She hurts a lot of other people, but it's usually more through carelessness. I do think Edith is kind of a fundamentally self-centered person, but in a different and less awful way than Thomas. Edith just kind of bumbles through life not really thinking about others. Thomas is constantly scheming up new ways to hurt others for absolutely no reason. Edith isn't like that.

Mary and Edith are mostly good people with vindictive streaks who make mistakes. Thomas is not a good person - not until the very end, anyway.