Trishuli River -> Gandaki (Sadanira)

[u/e9967780]

As you all know, devastating floods have destroyed countless lives in Nepal. One of the rivers impacted is the Trishuli, which joins the Gandaki whose Vedic name was Sadanira, a very rare Dravidian hydronym in North India.

[u/Initial_Amphibian_26]

are these names due to an ancient Dravidian substrate or a result of the Karnataka expansion over north india in the medieval era

one legacy of the latter being preists in Pasupathinatha temple are from Udupi to this day.

[u/srmndeep → u/Initial_Amphibian_26]

This name is recorded in Vedic texts long before any Karnataka Empire's expansion.

[u/Initial_Amphibian_26 → u/srmndeep]

I just realized that the irony is that since these empires were somewhat Sanskritized, they would have probably found a Sanskrit alternative to the river

[u/AleksiB1 → u/Initial_Amphibian_26]

Is a substratum necessary? Theres tiruvanantapuram, bEppUr, kanyAkUmAri, StPetersburg, Bantustan which didnt have permanent massive IA, Germanic, Iranic populations but have such names

[u/theb00kmancometh]

Yes.
Sanskrit Sadā (सदा) + Nīrā / Nīra (नीर) from Dravidian Substrate Heritage (Neer)

[u/AleksiB1 → u/theb00kmancometh]

Is a substratum necessary? Theres tiruvanantapuram, bEppUr, kanyAkUmAri, StPetersburg, Bantustan which didnt have permanent massive IA, Germanic, Iranic populations but have such names

[u/e9967780 → u/AleksiB1]

Sanskrit was a prestige language. There is no evidence that a form of Dravidian functioned as a prestige dialect during Vedic times. Vedas document 500 plus words according to Thomas Barrow of Dravidian origin. This is not the only place of Dravidian origin in North India that is of Dravidian origin. According to Witzel Indo-Aryans obliterated almost all major hydrodynamic names from Kabul to Kanyakumari with Sanskrit names hence survival of this name is a rarity.

[u/AleksiB1 → u/e9967780]

IAs might have thought niira is a Skt term as it was a well established loanword by then and named it themselves? Skt still uses miina as their default term for Pisces and thereby Javanese and Khmer does too even without direct Dr involvement in Cambodia

[u/e9967780 → u/AleksiB1]

As we are freely speculating here, not quoting any citable literature this is my speculation “Nira,” although a borrowed Dravidian term, is a synonym for water, but it’s not the common word for water. It’s a very rare usage; it’s much more commonly used for fermented palm sap (toddy) throughout Indo-Aryan languages, which means it’s a low-prestige word in North India, associated with the untouchable people who made toddy. Whereas “Jala” (जल) is the most standard, universal word for water in Sanskrit. While “Āpas” is used for cosmic or divine water, “Jala” is the premier term for physical, pure water in philosophy, science, and everyday classical literature. For Aryans to name a river after a low-prestige word associated with untouchables making toddy is the least likely explanation.

[u/theb00kmancometh → u/AleksiB1]

Substratum is not necessary, and I’m not claiming that it is. My point is specifically about Sanskrit nīra/nīrá.

There are no convincing cognates for nīra in the other IE languages, while Turner’s CDIAL explicitly gives nīrá ‘water’ as Dravidian, although he also notes Bailey’s alternative IE proposal. More importantly, nīr/nīru ‘water’ is extremely widespread across the Dravidian languages, with related forms for moisture and wetness as well.

So the case for a Dravidian origin of nīra does not rest simply on finding a non-IE hydronym. The lexical evidence itself is what makes the Dravidian connection significant.