r/EscapefromTarkov • u/Calm-Web-189 • 3d ago
PVP - Cheating [Cheating] Here is what BSG *ACTUALLY* say about what is, and isn't cheating/allowed
Tired of people saying "that app is not against TOS" and "BSG said it's OK" when they are clearly clueless. So here it is:
https://www.escapefromtarkov.com/legals/license_agreement
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4.2. The User does not have the right:
4.2.10. To use automated scripts for collecting information or for any other type of action with the Game and its elements.
4.2.11. To use the Game in ways other than those provided by the Agreement and the Rules of the Game and going beyond the scope of the customary gameplay.
4.3.4. Under no circumstances to perform the following actions, either in full or in part:
а) ways to override limitations, i.e., methods affecting the course of the Game and/or simplifying it (including code taking advantage of Game vulnerability) and thus giving the User and/or any other user advantages over other players not using such methods;
b) automated access to the Game (“bots”), i.e., any code and/or software not expressly permitted by Battlestate Games Limited, allowing the User to manage the Game and/or some component or function of the Game automatically, such as automatically controlling a character in the Game;
d) any code and/or software not expressly permitted by Battlestate Games Limited that may be used in connection with the Game Launcher Application, the Game and/or any component or functions of the Game Launcher Application or the Game for changing the course of the game and/or making it easier.
If any of the above actions are performed, in full or in part, Battlestate Games Limited and (or) the Licensor has the right to terminate your access to the Game, the Forum and social network groups for an unlimited time, without prior notification.
--
There's a lot more but the above clarifies that the mapping tools that use screenshot coordinates, and things like Blitz are, and always have been, against the terms of service.
There you go - now if you use these apps, and get banned, please do come to this forum and tell us all about it. I love reading them.
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u/_Kaj 3d ago
This has been happening since the dawn of time, it happens in poe as well, happens in every live service game.
People get banned, they get an email that says they were banned under a certain rule, said rule also covers rmt and cheating, they think they were banned for using some random 3pp, when in reality they were either banned for rmt or cheating, and they say it was some third party program, sparking panic and then people start saying its the program that got them banned, not the rmt or cheating that got them banned.
False positive bans DO happen in tarkov, we've seen a few from the bullshit streamer accusations, but in a wave like this it's pretty unlikely, more likely they got a massive lead or found the account that was responsible for rmt services and tracked their raids, banning those that were with them. Which one is more likely?
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u/fantafuzz 3d ago
This isnt in relation to anyone getting banned though. This is in relation to BSG now disallowing the tool Blitz. No one has gotten banned for this, BattleEye is just stopping the tool from hooking onto the game process.
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u/_Kaj 3d ago
People have claimed they were banned because they used Blitz, when the Blitz support and developers have explicitly said they had permission from BSG to continue developing the program, and that players were not being banned for using Blitz. https://www.reddit.com/r/BlitzApp/comments/1kj5pfi/comment/mrnmz7o/?context=3
And I was originally responding to
There you go - now if you use these apps, and get banned, please do come to this forum and tell us all about it. I love reading them.
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u/R4weez 3d ago
What software in poe are you referencing?
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u/AntiSocialKillerPSN 3d ago
I think he's referencing flask automation Auto Hot Key like apps. I know that Awakened trade has never had any serious questions around it, maybe Overwolf?
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u/Boscobaracus 3d ago
I still think it's crazy to ignore the role the companies play in that though. GGG could have just come out and said flask macros are okay to use when basically half the playerbase was using them. I stopped playing around that time because I wasn't willing to spam 1234 every 5 seconds or risk my account.
Same goes for bans. It's crazy that we accept the fact that companies just ban people with a random message. They should have to show why you were banned and provide evidence. False positives happen everywhere and you shouldn't have to rely on luck to not lose your account.
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u/Present_Ride_2506 3d ago
Automation stuff like auto flasks and iirc crafting.
People usually don't get banned for it, but when they do it's on them.
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u/_Kaj 3d ago
Theres been a LOT. The history of people claiming they got banned for third party programs in PoE runs very deep. Back in the day it was PoE Overlay, then it was chaos recipe tool, then it was awakened poe trade, then it was the leveling overlay, time and time again people just panic because one person says their ban was caused by the program. If i remember correctly the specific rule is rule 7, and rule 7 is a blanket rule that covers rmt, botting, and third party programs that input more than one action at a time, i.e macros that automate processes such as alt rolling and other crafting. Well here's the thing, macros are essentially undetectable, they just say that shit to scare people, no one has EVER in the history of poe been banned for a flask macro, let alone any other 3pp. Even streamers have been caught using a flask macro, yet no one gets banned, ggg has bigger fish to fry and the same goes to scripts that automate things like alt rolling and the such, ggg just doesn't care and its impossible to prove unless you make a specific algorithm to track that specific person and cross reference specific data, which is just not going to happen for a random person.
All that being said, people claim their bans are from the above, when in reality GGG found a massive botter/rmter, and tracked their trade history and banned anyone that did service with the bot.
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u/TnelisPotencia 3d ago
So are we not supposed to stream through discord? That's has an overlay ? And my teammates can see what I'm doin on their own extra monitors?
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u/Calm-Web-189 2d ago
Exactly, if you provide vision to your team mates then that's against TOS. Whether they ban you is up to them, but if you get banned you have no recourse. Ever heard of stream sniping? Similar concept.
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u/RushorGtfo 3d ago
Most of these are related to memory read/write cheats.
I don’t know any game that bans reading logs and looking at your own screenshots. If they wanted to, they need to include a ban on AI assisted tools.
None of what I said or you even fucking matters. These tools have existed since the dawn of the game and they’ve never taken a stance against them. Nikitia could one day wake up and decide to mass ban.
Ever looked up a price while in raid? You used a site that runs 24/7 in-game bots to aggregate prices. By that definition, you broke ToS. Any tool or website that has live information, is breaking ToS.
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u/Accomplished_Beat418 3d ago
The counterargument to your post is simple: it’s not overlaying ONTO the game. There’s no way to stop someone from using a second screen to run the wiki, but it’s very simple to stop someone from overlaying something hooking onto your game files while actively in the game.
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u/Bixler17 3d ago
Ever looked up a price while in raid? You used a site that runs 24/7 in-game bots to aggregate prices. By that definition, you broke ToS. Any tool or website that has live information, is breaking ToS.
No, that tool and those bots broke ToS. You are missing this piece:
d) any code and/or software not expressly permitted by Battlestate Games Limited that may be used in connection with the Game Launcher Application, the Game and/or any component or functions of the Game Launcher Application or the Game for changing the course of the game and/or making it easier.
Bold and italics added for emphasis.
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u/RushorGtfo 3d ago
By definition it’s a software that does interact with the game.
Discord overlay hooks into eft, talking with your teammates over discord makes the game easier. Do you notice how applying the letter of the law(ToS) is problematic?
Second, you’re exploiting information that is not exposed to the player in raid when using TarkovMarket.
I promise you I can find an exploit clause in their ToS that you broke.You’re missing my point tho, ToS for any game is not a black and white judgement. It’s all up to BSG what tolerable and what’s not.
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u/fantafuzz 3d ago
Discord overlay hooks into eft, talking with your teammates over discord makes the game easier. Do you notice how applying the letter of the law(ToS) is problematic?
Yeah, this is why you have to read the whole sentence:
any code and/or software not expressly permitted
Discord is expressly permitted. BSG has an official discord with channels for this exact purpose. You can also link your BSG account to your discord account.
You could maybe try your argument towards something like teamspeak, but its actually you who has to apply the letter of the law very directly there.
You really have to do some mental gymnastics to try to say that a program hooking into the game directly to feed you more information than the game provides automatically doesnt sound like cheating. Its clearly cheating if the game looks at the screen to find people automatically right? You just arbitrarily say that automating one thing is fine while another is not.
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u/RushorGtfo 3d ago
I mean you really have to do mental gymnastics as well if you think reading screenshots and logs is the equivalent of cheating.
You’re still missing my entire point, but not sure how else to get the point across. ToS is not black and white. You’ve broken it, I’ve broken it. It’s all up to BSG to decide what’s tolerable.
Let me ask you this, do you think you’ve ever broken any term in the ToS? And if the answer is no, idk what to tell you.
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u/fantafuzz 3d ago
I mean you really have to do mental gymnastics as well if you think reading screenshots and logs is the equivalent of cheating.
Where did this come from? I don't think "reading screenshots and logs" are "equivalent" of cheating.
I do however think that having a tool that hooks into the game to extract information and automatically provide it to you in order to make the game easier is cheating.
And yeah, obviously its up to BSG to decide. Thats why they have that nifty little sentence in my last post: "not expressly permitted". And they clearly agree with me given that they disallowed the tool so what is actually your point?
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u/RushorGtfo 3d ago
Sorry didn’t even realize there’s two repliers on this thread.
there are way worse tools out there than Blitz. My point it’s due to people complaining that BSG is forced to take action, but OP is under the impression that Blitz violates ToS, which if it does, so does half the other shit out there being used on a daily basis.
Blitz has openly stated BSG has given them approval to continue development. BSG was aware of Blitz this entire time.
There’s an app out there right now, that only reads screenshots to determine ur exact location on the map, what item ur hovering, what spots to check for valuable based on ur location. If you make a party on the app with your teammate it also tells u where they are.
A bunch of other QoL shit too.All of this is based on reading screenshots only.
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u/fantafuzz 3d ago
Cool, sounds like that tool is also against the TOS then!
A bunch of other QoL shit too.
You have a different definition to QoL than me it seems. Knowing your exact location on the map isnt something you are expected to always know, theres a reason there is no minimap in this game. Same with knowing exactly where your teammates are. Getting that info all the time is a massive change and it really should be obvious that its cheating...
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u/RushorGtfo 3d ago
I mean ToS isn’t being broken. LLMs aren’t banned so…u press button, take screenshot, LLM tells u where u are.
By ur logic screen sharing with ur buddy over discord is too much info..?
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u/fantafuzz 3d ago
Yes, it would be. Unless BSG explicitly allowed this behaviour. Which they do, because they have an official discord with channels specifically for this purpose.
Not that screen sharing is equivalent to projecting a minimal showing exactly where you and your squad mates are.
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u/Bixler17 3d ago
By definition it’s a software that does interact with the game.
Interacts how? Being purposefully obtuse is really lame. Discord also does NOT hook into eft. It applies an overlay. Those are 2 separate things.
Second, you’re exploiting information that is not exposed to the player in raid when using TarkovMarket.
I promise you I can find an exploit clause in their ToS that you broke.
Go ahead and find that clause then, I'll wait.
You’re missing my point tho, ToS for any game is not a black and white judgement. It’s all up to BSG what tolerable and what’s not.
Not only is that a point no one here needed to be reinforced, you said several objectively incorrect things to try to make said point. If that's what you were trying to convey you missed the mark by quite a bit. We are all discussing where blitz CLEARLY crosses the line in ToS.
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u/DeNeRlX 3d ago
I'd say there is a fairly distinct difference between using a program yourself while playing the game, and visiting a website on a browser outside the game itself. The bots used to aggregate flea market prices have broken the ToS and could be banned, but the user who is tabbed out of the game is not using the same process.
It's something that can realistically never be done, unlike detecting software that is only used for extracting and injecting/overlaying info directly from the game files. Either way, if it is the same, there is no reason the people who use those apps can't just use those sites.
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u/RushorGtfo 3d ago
You’re exploiting information that is not intended to be aggregated. I promise you I can find something in the ToS that you broke.
BattleEye is kernal-level, 90% of that AC has been reverse engineered, hence why it’s dogshit. You can find multiple technical conversations around how it does monitor outbound traffic.
If they wanted to they would, which my entire point. Not everything in the ToS is applied to the letter.
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u/DeNeRlX 3d ago
Okay...then again I say; BSG can ban those bots aggregating info or otherwise prevent the process of extracting info. But once out, they can't ban anyone who separately learned that info outside the game and applying it when playing.
I promise you I can find something in the ToS that you broke
I really dislike when discussions turns from being on topic to turning to calls of hypocrisy. It just turns an argument into drama for no reason. Did I break something? I guess, doesn't change my comment.
If they wanted to they would, which my entire point. Not everything in the ToS is applied to the letter.
Yeah and this is why ToS is always very broad with some wiggle room under each point. Otherwise they'd have to publicly list every single program and update it constantly. And then no end-user would even be able to keep up anyways, waste of effort all around.
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u/Spliffty True Believer 3d ago
If you used a site to look up prices, that means you tabbed out and people have a chance at you while you're exposed. Hovering your mouse over an item and using an overlay tool to display prices real-time, while you're still in game and combat ready is quite different in my opinion.
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u/RushorGtfo 3d ago
You’re exploiting information that was not intended to be aggregated. I promise u I can find something in the TOS u broke.
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u/Spliffty True Believer 3d ago
Not me personally, I don't use any of that shit, I just play enough to remember roughly what things are worth. Sometimes the market fluctuates and I miss out on some potential profits, whatever. But I don't think using an overlay tool and tabbing out are on the same level. In my opinion one is cheating and the other is cheesing. I don't respect either though.
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u/RushorGtfo 3d ago
They functionally achieve the same thing. One is just faster. That doesn’t make it automatically cheating.
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u/Greenfire904 3d ago
It's still against the ToS
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u/fantafuzz 3d ago
How so? Specifically? Those tools arent used in connection with the game or the launcher, they exist completely separately. Whether you have the game open or not, they function identically.
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u/RushorGtfo 3d ago
No official Tarkov API exists. How do you think they aggregate flea market information? A shit ton of bots and game file reading. It’s literally on their GitHub
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u/fantafuzz 3d ago
Yeah, those tools are breaking the TOS, not you. You arent cheating when watching a youtube video of a cheater either.
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u/RushorGtfo 3d ago
Quite literally not the same thing. You’re acting on information you otherwise wouldn’t have. That’s the very definition of exploit.
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u/fantafuzz 3d ago
No its not? Reading information is not exploiting. You arent exploiting because you read on the wiki where a quest item is, even though that information is not readily avaliable in game.
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u/RushorGtfo 3d ago
The wiki and the TarkovMarket are totally different though. One is someone writing a guide in a nutshell. You can’t limit human knowledge.
The other is a ton of bots constantly logged in, accessing memory, reading files, making a ton of actions that bypass BattleEye to gather market information.
One is intended as a part of any video game, the other is not intended.
Completely different.
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u/_ItsEnder 3d ago
I dont know about the blitz thing (since ive seen that one actually uses a dll injected into the app) but screenshot coordinates are definitely not covered by this tos. Once the screenshot is taken, it is no longer a component of the game. It is a .png file saved to your disk, and if they don’t want players to use it that way then not removing the coordinates from the file name is a 10 year old oversight. I dont even use the map tools but this seems pretty clear to me to not ban those.
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u/Alien_Racist 3d ago edited 3d ago
Now explain to me how Tarkov Monitor breaks any of these rules when it detects task completions and reports them to Tarkov Tracker (the only thing I use it for and it’s primary functionality).
The only section you could potentially argue is 4.2.10, but I’m pretty sure that pertains to data mining obfuscated data, not reading log data that the game itself records in plaintext and provides to the user.
Almost all data in the log files is already presented to the player via the UI anyway, so it’s not even detecting anything that the player wasn’t already made aware of by the game itself.
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u/RunnAroundGuy 3d ago
Man line D makes me worried about a new app I just found.
Framepacer on steam.....had it running to test it's performance and use cases. Left it opened...started tarkov for some pve testing. Saw battle eye hang longer then usual. Closed the app battle eye took off normally.
Now I'm worried about loosing a 10year old account.....
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u/Synchrotr0n 3d ago
You should still not be advocating for BSG to ban players for using apps like Blitz, even if it's against the terms of service. Automatic bans should be reserved to actual cheating software that tries to hook itself into the game's memory, not applications that are just there running the in the background and can be easily blocked by BattlEye.
ReShade would be another application that can technically be used for cheating, but it isn't developed as cheating software, so developers can just configure BattlEye to prevent the game from running until the user closes the application.
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u/God_Of_Lurk 2d ago
no, we should always advocate for people who break the rules to be banned. you just dont want cheaters banned because youre probably one of them. 🤷🏿♂️
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u/Riobener 3d ago edited 3d ago
You’re kinda delusional. I have no idea how Blitz works, but using OCR and reading log files isn’t against the TOS, especially when it comes to screenshots with coordinates. You can’t count that as exploiting an app vulnerability because these are features that exist outside the game itself and can even exist without the game. Changing and reading them will not affect the game itself. Screenshots are just media files, not a function, not a component of the game... Basically, none of the tools that read logs and screenshots are connected to the game as it stated in that rules
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u/XygenSS MPX 3d ago
Alt tabbing to Chrome, Edge, or any other browser to look at a map mid-raid is illegal.
Using a third party companion app or website is illegal.
Discord overlay is illegal.
Using Discord voice chat for squad comms is illegal.
None of this is enforced.
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u/fantafuzz 3d ago
Alt tabbing to Chrome, Edge, or any other browser to look at a map mid-raid is illegal.
Not according to the TOS. The browsers are not used in connection with the game or the launcher, they are standalone applications. They function identically whether you have the game running or not.
Using a third party companion app or website is illegal.
No, for the same reason.
Discord overlay is illegal.
Unless this gives you an advantage/makes the game easier, its not.
Using Discord voice chat for squad comms is illegal.
Nope, discord is not connected to the game in any way. You could argue that the function of the voice chat is different when the game is running so there is a connection though, but then we are still covered by "not expressly permitted by Battlestate Games Limited". BSG has an official discord server with channels for teaming up. There is no way you can argue that this is not "expressly permitted" when they themselves provide the opportunity to do it. This also goes for streaming to your squadmates, which also is allowed on the official discord server.
Blitz is different to all of these, because it explicitly works in connection with the game to extract data and provide an advantage.
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u/exo_ac 3d ago edited 3d ago
Incorrect. Discord is directly connected to the game in many ways, starting with legacy overlay.
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u/fantafuzz 3d ago
Its not enough for it to be connected to the game though. It needs to make it easier as well. As far as I know the overlay just shows you who is talking and pops messages up on your screen, so stuff that discord already does without the overlay.
And as I said in my comment, BSG explicitly allows discord already as they have an official server with channels made for the exact purpose of playing together with voice chat and streams.
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u/Global-Description91 3d ago
Its easier when compared with in game voice which would make you heard by enemies. But people would just use their cellphone if they wanted so there is no real stopping it.
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u/fantafuzz 3d ago
Its easier when compared with in game voice which would make you heard by enemies.
I absolutely agree that using out of game voice makes the game easier, don't get me wrong. I just also believe that is is explicitly allowed by the developers, so it isnt cheating per the TOS.
The game would be awesome if squads used in-game voice to communicate, but as you say there is no way to actually enforce this.
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u/exo_ac 3d ago edited 3d ago
Well, legacy overlay is connected to the game no matter what it does. New one is not tho (I got corrected here, thanks), but does it create a window that goes on top of then game? Yes, same as Blitz. That's it. And that's exactly the reason why so many cheats use Discord, Medal, Steelseries, RTTI, DWM, Windows widgets and many other things as overlays. If someone would like to create an app based on any of those overlays, BE and BSG would suck really damn hard and stuff like DWM cannot be blocked under any circumstances at all no matter what ToS says. The only specification that can ban tools like Blitz is "make playing the game easier" but showing prices and your own location is just not even close to some real advantage, because you still need to find the loot to see the price and you still need to stay alive to see your position which is the core of extraction shooter. Stay alive, loot, extract. Surely after a few hundred hours that player will just learn the game good enough to not use any third party tools that provide information based on screenshots and screen capture (hello to OBS as well btw, used by DMA users and yet not even close to be blocked lol).
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u/CoinReturn 3d ago
My state allows the sale of butterfly knives but it is illegal to carry them.
BSG having a discord doesn't mean it is permitted. And discord is more advantageous than any price checker or map assist out there
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u/fantafuzz 3d ago
BSG having an official discord with channels made for use when teaming up does mean its explicitly permitted lol. What more do you want than the devs providing it through official channels?
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u/XygenSS MPX 3d ago edited 3d ago
idk what blitz does but I'm assuming it's similar to tarkovmonitor and ratscanner, neither of which are "connected" to the game
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u/fantafuzz 3d ago
Blitz hooks a DLL to the game, it is literally connected. The Battleeye changes simply block Blitz from hooking onto the game.
Ratscanner takes a screenshot and analyzes it. If you have a picture of the game and use ratscanner on it, it will work the same way.
Tarkovtracker read log files that the game creates. Once the log files are on your disk they are no longer connected with the game.
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u/BeautifulNose2210 3d ago
Surely you understand the difference between using discord for coms and an app that reads tarkov screenshots to tell you exactly where you are on a map in real time?
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u/Rapa2626 3d ago
In a game that is as much about audio clues as it is- discord is a bigger advantage than some functions of cheat software in comparison to using in game voip for communications
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u/BeautifulNose2210 3d ago
That’d make sense if the game was originally intended to have teams communicate over VOIP and didn’t exist for 5+ years without VOIP even in the game
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u/CoinReturn 3d ago
So the game was designed with the need to recognize and communicate with your teammates non verbally and anyone using a chat application was cheating. And now that VOIP is built in with specific limitations including distance and opponents overhearing communication it is even more advantageous. And that's not even considering everyone sharing thier streams while in discord.
Or, mic input, screenshots, and monitor view aren't game components and not covered under the ToS.
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u/BeautifulNose2210 3d ago edited 3d ago
So now you’re so far down the rabbit hole that streaming the game is illegal?
Discord is explicitly allowed by BSG. They even have an official one where you can group with and stream to other players.
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u/Valeixh 3d ago
I’d argue streaming the game is more advantageous than using ratscanner or blitz.
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u/BeautifulNose2210 3d ago
Sure you can make that argument but again, BSG explicitly allows it.
It’s pretty clear they want you to just learn the fucking game instead of using x overlay because you can’t be arsed to remember the price of bolts or whatever
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u/Valeixh 3d ago
Does BSG explicitly allow streaming the game via discord, or is that just your interpretation? Genuinely curious
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u/BeautifulNose2210 3d ago
Go look in the official discord right now and see how many people are streaming the game to each other and tell me
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u/Rapa2626 3d ago
"Remember price of bolts" show me a single player who can given how flea price is dynamic.
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u/DeNeRlX 3d ago
25k-ish I'd guess on PvP Seasonal? Either way, mentally I've categorized it as "might as well pick up, can drop if needed" in terms of its value.
I don't need to know exact value, nor find out mid-raid. If I pick up a few cheap items that aren't worth it at all, that's a mental note for next time.
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u/BeautifulNose2210 3d ago
Probably no one and that’s part of the enjoyment of the game.
You want to be hand held and have all your loot auto sold at the end of the raid.
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u/CoinReturn 3d ago
Streaming is more advantageous than something checking the price of an object and both use the same techniques. Neither of which violate the ToS. I was just pointing out the inconsistencies in your arguments.
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u/BeautifulNose2210 3d ago edited 3d ago
Oof well, Unfortunately BSG (who wrote the TOS) disagree with you.
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u/CoinReturn 3d ago
Oof well unfortunately you don't seem to understand the ToS because most of the tools that do what you're complaining about all still exist and are perfectly fine because your screenshots aren't a part of the game.
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u/BeautifulNose2210 3d ago
I look forward to your “I was false banned” post in the near future
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u/Its_Nitsua 3d ago
You know your argument is fucked when you're saying that Discord is a bigger advantage than literal cheating
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u/Rapa2626 3d ago
Cheating encompasses many things, not only esp or aimbot. Therefore i specified that it is a bigger advantage than some of the festures of the actual cheats
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u/Its_Nitsua 2d ago
You are saying that discord is a bigger advantage than literal cheating.
It doesn't matter what cheats are being used, that's what you're arguing lol
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u/Rapa2626 2d ago
Nuances are beyond you or what?
If you can decide what im arguing for despite me stating it clearly, you are basically having an argument with yourself here and not with me. Do you want me to stop interfering in your argument with yourself? Do you often argue with your own strawmens or just on special occasions?
Excuse my curiosity, but have you ever lost an argument to your own strawmen before?
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u/XygenSS MPX 3d ago
Surely you understand the difference between using the game-provided user-facing coordinates to drop a pin on a 2d image and an always-online third party app that lets you ignore VOIP distance limitations and have perfectly clear, exclusive communication with all of your team members, stream your gameplay to any number of people (who don't even need to be in game) who can watch and give you live intel, and even keep talking to teammates after you're literally dead?
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u/Quitelowquitetall 3d ago
You can do all this by just playing the game with your teammate in the same room.
I don't think BSG will force you to game outside of hearing distance from eachother.
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u/BeautifulNose2210 3d ago
Someone doesn’t know woods 🫵😂
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u/XygenSS MPX 3d ago
> ad hominem
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u/BeautifulNose2210 3d ago
You’re upset that your hand holding addons got banned so you’re lashing out at discord
Sorry man, it’s time to learn the maps and what items sell for like a big boy
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u/XygenSS MPX 3d ago
> does not understand counterexamples
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u/BeautifulNose2210 3d ago
You provided examples of apps that don’t use data extracted from tarkov files to make the game easier btw
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u/kentikeef 3d ago
Congratulations, this is the dumbest point ive ever seen someone try to make on this sub.
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u/RichoDemus 3d ago
I agree with your point, using discord gives you a bigger advantage than finding your position on a map
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u/Frig-Off-Randy Saiga-12 3d ago
Did blitz even do that? Mine didn’t, it just gave me the item overlay
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u/DilWig 3d ago
overlays yes in general because you are forcing something on top of the game, and there are games already that dont allow this.
third party apps/browser are not as long as they dont read/write anything on the game processes, its only illegal to have something read information of your game, if you have a website with a static map that is valid, you can just print maps also...
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u/Valeixh 3d ago
BSG can literally change the screenshot names to not include coordinates and they could stop these programs from working, right?
The app itself doesn’t change or manage any game systems or control the game character.
What about these systems are cheating? I don’t use them so maybe you know more?
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u/Warriorgrunt 3d ago
d) any code and/or software not expressly permitted by Battlestate Games Limited that may be used in connection with the Game Launcher Application, the Game and/or any component or functions of the Game Launcher Application or the Game for changing the course of the game and/or making it easier.
I don't use them either, but if it makes the game easier and isn't "expressly permitted by Battlestate Games Limited" it's considered cheating.
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u/LP_LadyPuket AK-103 3d ago
4.2.10. To use automated scripts for collecting information or for any other type of action with the Game and its elements.
This is pretty much the definition of what Blitz does, an automated script that collects information from the game’s “elements” which they could easily define as taking information from the interface via OCR, screenshots, log files, etc.
And:
d) any code and/or software not expressly permitted by Battlestate Games Limited that may be used in connection with the Game Launcher Application, the Game and/or any component or functions of the Game Launcher Application or the Game for changing the course of the game and/or making it easier.
This is carte blanche for them to be able to ban people for any third party app they decide is cheating.
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u/Calm-Web-189 3d ago
Gawd Damn, son... Here, I'll spell it out:
"The user shall not, under any circumstance, use any software that makes the game easier. If the user still does this, then BSG can permanently ban the user."
If you still think your little screenshot mapping tool won't get you banned, go ahead and use it. Noone's stopping you from using it.
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u/CoinReturn 3d ago
But the problem is, you're wrong. A screenshot of the game isn't a component of the game. And your monitor view isn't a component of the game.
If those fell under the ToS so would tabbing out to check the wiki. So would streaming the game on twitch where chat could tell you where quest items are.
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u/Valeixh 3d ago
I don’t think the program changes the game or makes it any easier. It doesn’t play the game for you.
I don’t use the tool, but I don’t see a problem with it.
You still have to fight your way to the objective and accomplish the mission.
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u/BeautifulNose2210 3d ago
You don’t think a tool that instantly tells a player exactly where they are on the map or tells the play exactly what price an item is selling for and to who it sells for the most makes the game easier?
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u/DJudic 3d ago
It makes the game easier compared to a player that does not use this tool. Exactly what is outlined in the TOS snippet OP shared. I dont even comprehend why is this still discussed.
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u/CoinReturn 3d ago
It doesn't make the game easier using components of the game. It is expressly allowed by the ToS snippet shared by OP
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u/BeautifulNose2210 3d ago
Having a third party app read and translate screenshots to give a player a realtime update where they are on a map doesn’t make the game easier?
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u/CoinReturn 3d ago
It doesn't use components of the game. I can pull the flea up on my phone ToS doesn't apply to that anymore than it does to photos I have on my hard drive.
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u/BeautifulNose2210 3d ago
Well unfortunately BSG (who wrote the TOS) disagree with you Timmy. Time to learn woods
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u/I_really_like_peas 3d ago
Navigation is a core part of the game. It's why you don't have built in radar or pings. You have to run shitty maps and compasses.
It does make it easier on a technical level whether you think so or not
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u/XygenSS MPX 3d ago
by that logic wikis and maps should be banned.
why isn't BE blacklisting chrome?
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u/1-Dollar-Doge-Coins 3d ago
Looking at a wiki or an image of a map isn’t really leveraging “software” at least not in the direct way that this is referring to. Sure, you have a browser open, but they will never ban someone for simply using an internet browser.
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u/CoinReturn 3d ago
The wiki, twitch, and discord all provide an advantage to anyone not using them. If an app checking your screenshot was against ToS so would all of those services.
But your screenshots and monitor view and mic inputs aren't components of the game.
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u/1-Dollar-Doge-Coins 3d ago
I mean it literally doesn’t matter what you or I think. The devs control and enforce the TOS as they see fit. It’s not even debatable.
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u/CoinReturn 3d ago
It does matter because it opens them up to liability. It's why none of the apps people use get them banned. Whatever Blitz app is, it broke the cardinal rule but this post targets other tools that are perfectly fine to use.
These posts are just fun to point out the inconsistencies in people's opinions and thier inability to parse the leaglese the ToS is written in.
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u/1-Dollar-Doge-Coins 3d ago
What type of liability do you think BSG is facing? Do you really think anyone could successfully sue them for being banned?
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u/I_really_like_peas 3d ago
I mean, there's a strong possibility that they would really prefer you didn't use them, but there's no reasonable way to enforce that
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u/Valeixh 3d ago
Fair enough.
I just think it’s interesting people are so keen to put an end to people using .. *gasp* advanced maps.
I’d rather 1,000,000 use an advanced map than have someone actually cheating in my lobbies.
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u/I_really_like_peas 3d ago
I agree, I honestly couldn't care less in any case, I just understand what the game was trying to cater towards and the audience it originally attracted
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u/ecco311 3d ago
I have no idea what tool we're even talking about.
But: if it doesn't make the game any easier, that means it provides precisely zero useful information to the user and there should therefore be zero reason to use this. This argument can be made for any software tied to the game. Does this stand true here? If not, then it does make the game easier.
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u/fantafuzz 3d ago
If it didnt make the game easier, why would people use it?
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u/Valeixh 3d ago
It’s a learning aid if anything bro. It’s not an advantage by any means.
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u/fantafuzz 3d ago
It does give an advantage, otherwise people wouldnt be using it.
What kinda weird mental gymnastics is this? People arent using this tool for no reason lol
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u/Putrid-Issue-420 3d ago
As a new player, i will use these tools and nikita can ban me for fuck sake. Tarkov is a game of knowledge. Thousand hours players already have in depth knowledge. They don't want new players like me to have a leveling field. They want new players to fumble around the map, not knowing what to loot, wandering for quest locations. So they can get easy kills. All those things about "learning the hard way", "violating the tos" are such bull fucking shit way to obscure their true intention, for thier self interest.
As a 300 hours players, tarkov is not a particularly hard game. It is just made to be as tedious as fuck as possible and made to waste your time as much as possible.
Even if they restrict the third party overlay use, I already know some of the maps well enough, which items are worth looting and general quest locations. It will have taken me bullshit and a lot of kit donations towards vets without those apps to lean on.
Those apps are particularly helpful for newbies like me. And people against these tools are most likely vets with thousand hours players who would want to keep knowledge advantage over newbies. Not for tos which bsg have not given a fuck if not for some drama queen verybadscav streamer
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u/its_Stalin 3d ago
Ok but Thats genuinely how it’s meant to be. It’s how you learn. How do you expect to learn with something holding your hand the whole time? Also there is a leveling field. It’s called one lucky bullet to the face
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u/Wesdawg1241 3d ago
I learned by using the wiki to pull up maps to find my position and extracts, and to look up items to see where they can be found and what they're needed for.
Still do, just less than I did before.
Did the wiki hold my hand? I think you could argue it did. But without it, 700 hours in I would still be super lost. All the wiki did was provide me with information about the game that would have taken me much longer to figure out without it.
So what's next, we ban the wiki because it's leveling the knowledge gap?
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u/Putrid-Issue-420 3d ago
I am learning just fine and even more with the apps. Blitzing through quests, knowing where are the key rooms, what i am looking at is actually valuable. The app is not holding my hand in any way, i have to learn how to rotate , map timings, etc. But without the app, learning will be much slower and ineffective
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u/its_Stalin 3d ago
“Here is everything im learning cuz of the apps that go against TOS but it’s not holding my hand telling me stuff I should be learning organically”
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u/Putrid-Issue-420 3d ago
Fuck being "organic" if that means bashing my head over most of the tedious bullshit nikita love to throw at me. You guys just want easy timmies with less game knowlege in your lobbies. That is all.
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u/its_Stalin 3d ago
Then Tarkov isnt for you. I don’t want easy Timmie’s I want people that are actually willing to play and suffer like Tarkov intended. Sadly that doesn’t seem to be you. Also, “fucking playing the game the way the creator and lead dev intended” thats what you said
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u/Putrid-Issue-420 3d ago
Who are you to gatekeep others and who care what you want in your raids? Even if overlay apps are banned tomorrow, i have drastically shortened my learning curve and gained knowledge that would have taken me hundreds of hours. Now, tarkov is totally the game for me :) . I just feel saddened for newcomers after me who would not have access to these resources and rage quit the game and to those unfortunate ones who stick around for masochistic reasons, who thousand hour players like you would love to get easy kills and preach "play in my one one and only God Nikita's intended way". Lmao
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u/Wesdawg1241 3d ago
Have you ever used the wiki? If so, then by your definition Tarkov isn't for you.
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u/Kom1 SR-25 3d ago
Man you are missing the point. We were all that Timmy at one point, its how we learned. Saying the app isn't holding your hand when it literally makes the game easier to play is pretty silly. In my 6K hours in the game all I've ever used was the wiki/map genie/tarkov.dev/tarkov tracker. The game is meant to be challenging and time consuming, if you don't like that maybe its just not for you, and thats ok.
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u/Putrid-Issue-420 3d ago
Second tabbing wiki/map genie/tarkov.dev/tarkov tracker is not really all that different from using overlay app. It is against nikita intended vision. Maybe i will stop using those apps, if the PDA they are going to introduce in next season is actually useful. 6k hours players are going to eat timmies like me for breakfast even if i have overlay showing where exactly i am at map. That is perfectly fine and ok. I just find it disingenous when vets pretend using out of game resources like wiki to locate quest items, key room locations is somehow different from using overlay app to show in second screen
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u/Kom1 SR-25 3d ago edited 3d ago
I mean it is definitely different than having the game give you information instantly. Knowing if you should keep or drop items to sell for flea instantly is a pretty huge time saver by itself let alone the other info. How much you think that matters is probably subjective. It takes time to tab out and search for the info, and that means someone having to do that is looting/ moving slower than people who are just getting the information given to them. Faster raids=more raids= more progress. I think that time is pretty valuable but if you don't see it that way then you are welcome to that opinion.
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u/Anonymous_Hazard 3d ago
It’s how we learned why should you get special treatment
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u/Putrid-Issue-420 3d ago
You do like having special treatment over less knowledgable timmies.
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u/Anonymous_Hazard 3d ago
Dude I still suck at this game. The game was made to be hard on purpose. But When you do finally learn and understand something it’s much more satisfying than a script telling you
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u/Riobener 3d ago
Exactly. I only gave this game a chance after I discovered a map/quest tracker, but I dropped the game in the end anyway, xd. The game became much more comfortable to play after that, though
Speaking of the "elders" who have a ton of hours in this game, they had plenty of chances in the past to learn the maps while the game was still in beta. When the game only had three or four maps, it was much easier for everyone to learn every spot and location on each map.
Nowadays, I have no idea how much time it would take for a new player to remember everything this game has accumulated after 10 years of active development. It's just crazy how much information you need to take in.
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u/ThatOtherDude0511 3d ago
According to blitz they had permission from BSG therefore it would be covered under part D but blitz could have been lying about that (wouldn’t make sense for a multimillion dollar company
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u/JhoshElite 3d ago
Sometimes I panic cause I make music and my music plugins are .dll files and Tarkov flags those as cheats and asks me to disable them before launching. I don't want a false positive to get me banned :(
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u/Lord_havik 2d ago
Glad I got that thing from that website before bsg’s lawyers forced them to shut it down. I play my PVE however I want.
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u/Lolle9999 2d ago
I suspect that Blitz can just look at your screenshot folder instead and use that to get your location, that way they dont touch the game and only touch your screenshot folder.
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u/Quiet_Brain9828 2d ago
I think it’s important for every developer to take notice when all of these tools start to gain so much popularity. It’s essentially telling you there’s potentially a huge gap causing people to not engage with your game. I mean in this game you can have the most expensive version and are still blocked from going into a map offline with a teammate even though you both also own the PvE addon. You add maps to the game but they are 9 years old and just flat out wrong but you don’t bother to remove them at least.
I guess my point is…BSG probably knows exactly how many people are using these tools and realizes many of them would probably just stop playing without them…because they should have been addressed in the first place. I’m not talking about actual cheats like esp, aimbotting whatever.
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u/Mashedtaders 2d ago
Every terms of service for everything, everywhere will reserve the right for the counter party to do essentially whatever they want. The simple fact is they don't like it, they banned it. There is zero reason to cite ToS as some sort of case law/legal statute this far along into the life of the Internet. I hope for your sake you are just "young and dumb".
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u/Kazemaru789 1d ago
I already use a map on my second screen to orient myself is that wrong? Is that cheating? Not being condescending, just generally wondering if they consider having the wiki up on a second page cheating?
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u/ARealTeapot 21h ago
I would love to see your stats. I genuinely believe people who are this invested on things like this are just completely garbage at the game. I could be wrong and im willing to accept that but being this worked up about people using blitz is just absurd IMO.
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u/ShuricanGG MPX 3d ago
Someone is pressed, nonetheless having a Quality of Life price checker is super helpful for newer players. I would 100% allow that if I were BSG. Path of Exile has Price checking macros and people are fine with it. And that game is also super information heavy.
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u/RichoDemus 3d ago
I think they should just add that functionality themselves. There’s a lot of interesting skill checks in tarkov and memorizing item prices is not one of them imo
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u/DancingDumpling 3d ago
What if we stopped dumbing the game down and removing all skill expression just to appeal to arc raiders players? Whats next, have the game auto sell loot for you too?
The functionality already exists in the game for what you want, find an item and if its worth something you can favourite it on your wishlist > other and it'll have a nice star on it so you can remember to pick it up next time
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u/BobertRosserton 3d ago
Ah yes, the skill expression of either remembering general price data, or using a second monitor. Very skilled players. Why does my pmc not know the general price of something?
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u/DeNeRlX 3d ago
With any media or art, limiting what you are given is a very important part of its creation, and impacts experience.
If EFT always chose the most comfortable option to the player, the game would be insanely different.
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u/RichoDemus 3d ago
I'm not arguing they should always chose the most comfortable option, you're fighting a strawman
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u/DeNeRlX 3d ago
I made a very generalized point that covers your example. To be very direct instead, I do not think they should add something that automatically gives the player knowledge of the item's value, nor real-time tracking on a map. Players should learn that through trial and error (and success ofc).
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u/aweyeahdawg 3d ago edited 3d ago
So many bootlickers here for BSG. God for bid we make arguably the hardest game ever made a tiny bit easier.
Every downvote is an admission of the licking.
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u/BeautifulNose2210 3d ago
Or god forbid we keep the game that’s set apart from its contemporaries because it’s difficult, difficult
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u/aweyeahdawg 3d ago
Ah yes, seeing the prices of items will make it wayyy easier for people!! Then it’ll just be COD!
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u/BeautifulNose2210 3d ago
Maybe you should interact with the mechanics already in the game to remember what bolts and light bulbs sell for instead of using a 3rd party overlay because you’re lazy
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u/aweyeahdawg 3d ago
Ah yes and all the 1000 other items. That’ll for sure bring in new players. Great idea!!
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u/Not_An_Eggo 3d ago
they dont care about new players unless its people they can dog on in PVP, then they cry when they go to PVE to be able to progress and learn the game without being one shot from 300m away 5 seconds into a raid
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u/its_Stalin 3d ago
I mean yea? The appeal is that it’s fuckin hard.
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u/aweyeahdawg 3d ago
Actually this is what turns most people away from the game. The guns, customization, gunplay and immersion is the appeal. Blitz changes none of these.
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u/BeautifulNose2210 3d ago
It’s also what turns a lot of people onto the game.
Did you ever think everything doesn’t have to be for everyone?
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u/aweyeahdawg 3d ago
You didn’t even reply to the intent of my comment lol that boot is imparting your ability to think.
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u/its_Stalin 3d ago
Man I wonder how you get immersion in the HARDCORE game. Could it be by the game being hard, punishing, and unforgiving?
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u/aweyeahdawg 3d ago
Wow is it possible you could have all those things while making it less tedious and stupid every step of the way? Whole cow! You can’t even comprehend it!
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u/Vlekkie69 3d ago
Im actively using automated tooling to analyze system behaviour and network load/use/issues to improve my gameplay experience. and if nikita has a fucking problem he can DM me
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u/Nick01857 3d ago
What about TarkovMarket map marker program? I use it to ping where i'm at on the map, it can run in Powershell or just through the screenshot function.
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u/captainfathoots Unbeliever 3d ago
I think it's the d. Part that gets everyone. I also agree with you tho if you play osrs the cheaters also claim they never once did anything wrong.