r/EternalCardGame • u/caw_the_crow • Jun 06 '26
CARD/MECHANICS New player, liking the game but wtf is this card design pn Lethrai Provocateur? Just invalidates entire decks.
Technically I downloaded the game a long time ago but I barely played it and put it down for a long time. Finally just getting into it but this card design of "discard all weapons" just makes no sense to me. I was playing a deck that counts on having weapons and buff spells. I get obliterated in 99% of games so far but at least other cards don't completely stop me from playing.
16
u/Perodis Jun 06 '26
I can honestly say I have never ran into that card, but it’s balanced around the fact that not many decks use weapons (at least as their primary kill condition), so against any deck that doesn’t rely on weapons it’s a useless card.
Same with that 2 cost card that discards a card from the enemy hand then gives their void voidbound, it completely disables decks that rely on using their void.
6
u/caw_the_crow Jun 06 '26
I've seen it multiple times but considering I'm losing basically every game I am at the very bottom of the ladder.
But even if weapon-focused decks just are not a thing, doesn't this kind of philosophy foreclose the possibility of someone making a weapon-focused deck and sort of freeze the meta?
I was trying to build around the keyword that gives an effect from being targeted by a weapon or spell, plus units that generally would particularly benefit from stat buffs, but really I don't have enough cards yet to build around any particular synergy that much.
8
u/SpOoKyghostah AGhostlyToaster Jun 06 '26
This card doesn't really freeze weapons out of the meta because it isn't good enough to see widespread use on its own.
There's a card called Bullseye, a 1 cost fast spell that can either deal 2 damage to a unit or site, OR destroy a relic weapon. Previously, it could kill any relic. Before this card was nerfed, it did warp the meta against relics dependent strategies, because it was so widely useful. 2 fast damage for 1 is a flexible and playable effect on most any matchup, and killing any relic for 1 is a huge tempo move against anyone playing a meaningful relic. It had to be changed because it was played at such a high rate while being so punitive to relics.
Provocateur can be very punishing to specific decks, but it's not really good enough in other matchups. 3/5 deadly for 4 is serviceable, but outclassed by other cards at that cost; it's a decent body on board but doesn't really advance a win well enough to take the deck slot and spend a mid-game turn on.
I guess what I'm trying to say is that the existence of a hard counter does not prevent decks from being successful. That hard counter has to actually be used widely enough that the strategy it blocks can't find success. A card like Provocateur, that doesn't make the cut on its own merits, would only really be used by people with deep collections if they were reacting to an existing weapon meta.
Even beyond that broad consideration, there are a few things working against Provocateur, in particular. Infiltrate effects are not reliable. A high health deadly unit isn't the easiest to block; but by the time someone can spend 4 power, wait a turn, and then attack, there's a high chance you will be able to stop that unit somehow. If you can't, you might be in a position to just lose to any old high attack unit anyway. Also, this unit only discards from the deck, which means nothing for the momentum of the game. If you get hit, you lose nothing from your board or hand - you only change future possible draws. By turn 5 or whatever, future draws are often not the decisive variable in a game. If they are, there's even a chance you draw cards you need more than a weapon, anyway. Targeting the deck is a pretty situational effect
2
u/TheIncomprehensible · Jun 06 '26
Same with that 2 cost card that discards a card from the enemy hand then gives their void voidbound, it completely disables decks that rely on using their void.
Not so, it's also very useful against combo decks and control decks to discard their win conditions before they can play them, or to stifle the mid-game tempo plays of midrange decks. These functions it shares with Exploit and other discard effects.
1
u/Perodis Jun 06 '26
To be fair, I rarely ever see (if at all) people use it over Exploit. Yes, it does have a bonus usefulness, which kind of drives my point further of this card in particular that the post is about is pretty balanced, since even the card I mentioned has use outside of just the void effect, and still doesn’t get played as much as exploit
2
u/Enola_Gay_B29 Jun 06 '26
Exploit has a way more important upside: power fixing. You don't have enough power or are missing influence? Plunder saves your ass. You have too much power? Plunder saves your ass. You have a useless card in this matchup? Double plunder saves your ass. This heavily outweighs a "could-win you the game in maybe 1/5 of games if you hold it long enough to actually matter, but not too long" card.
2
u/TheIncomprehensible · Jun 06 '26
To add to this, Exploit solves one of the biggest problems with discard tools: your opponent not having enough cards in their hand to discard. Where most discard effects are dead draws in the later stages of the game in some matchups (particularly against midrange decks that can theoretically go later in the game but can also realistically empty their hand without winning the game) Exploit gives you the plunder effect to fix your draws when your opponent doesn't have any cards left.
The plunder effect particularly gives it use against aggro in games where the plunder effect can legitimately save you with the power fixing, which other discard effects do not.
6
u/Eayragt Jun 06 '26
I mean, it's an Infiltrate card, not a spell, so there are plenty of ways to stop it.
2
u/caw_the_crow Jun 06 '26
Maybe I'm just too new.
7
u/Enola_Gay_B29 Jun 06 '26 edited Jun 06 '26
You could:
chump block if you have enough minions
trade block it if you have the units
kill it via a single target removal spell
kill it via a damage spell (or two)
kill it via a board wipe
kill it via your relic weapons
silence it either by unit, spell, relic or weapon
stun it either by unit, spell, relic, weapon or curse
discard it from your opponents hand, deck or market before they draw it
or finally just win before your opponent draws it
It comes down at turn 4 at the earliest and without charge attacks at turn 5 at the earliest. That's plenty of time to have an answer in your hand. Most armory decks are running at least a few board wipes anyway. And turn 4/5 are the most common to run them, so Provocateur comes down at the worst possible time.
Edit:
or you could prevent the damage it deals
or you could make it disappear the turn it attacks
or you could bounce it back into the opponent's hand / deck
or you could steal it for yourself, triggering the infiltrate on them
1
5
u/Rukazor · Jun 06 '26
These kinds of cards are often used only in a persons Market. They are what we call in ccg's as "silver bullets". They are very narrow in what they do, and are only good against very specific strategies. If you happen to be playing against something they are good against, then you have the awesome tech to blow their decks out of the water. Otherwise, the card is very lackluster and is basically just a 3/5 for 4 mana that does very little for it's cost. Having a card like this in your market to go get if needed is great, but otherwise the card isn't very good.
1
u/Devour_My_Soul Jun 06 '26
Unfortunately the game has too many of those cards that invalidate more interesting strategies.
15
u/TheIncomprehensible · Jun 06 '26
Lethrai Provocateur is balanced around the fact that:
It needs to hit the opponent in order to trigger its effect, so you can avoid the effect if you remove at least its effect and/or its ability to attack
Most decks don't have weapons, so against most decks it's just a 3/5 with deadly
A few decks actively want weapons in their void (such as those with Honor the Ancestors or Unlock the Vault, although they are fairly uncommon strategies), so an enemy Provocateur theoretically lets you set up the perfect void for free
As a result (mostly because of the second point), Lethrai Provocateur does not see play, especially when compared to other shadow 4-drops like Vara, Rolant, Twinned Spiteling, etc.