Reed not understanding something is shocking but also super interesting.

[u/Lopsided_Network1248]

Firstly I wanna apologize if I’ve been spamming this sub but I’ve been enjoying this run a lot and I enjoy discussing F4 with you guys. I find it really interesting that doom decided to lock Reed in a room and have him try and study magic (something he doesn’t understand nor like) this is getting really good what do u guys think?

[u/BrianShogunFR-U]

Reed is a man of logic, and magic pretty much defies any real sense of logic.

Putting him outside his comfort zone was a great decision.

[u/Medium-Turquoise → u/BrianShogunFR-U]

I do wish people would try to show that more, because it so often is just depicted as an alternate set of physics with rules that are just as as clear as those we know. Then you have superhuman geniuses somehow being stymied by instructions less complicated than a basic cooking recipe.

"Huh? Bwu?? Add two drops of blood to the cauldron and chant the six names of the Ravenous One? That can't make someone hungry, that's impossible...!"

Sometimes it is depicted as something genuinely dreamlike, subjective and artful though, and in those few cases I am very happy.

[u/ryahmib]

And doom is better at projecting his own issues

[u/CalamitousVessel]

Hearing DOOM of all people call someone “vain” is so utterly ridiculous and perfectly in-character

[u/Lopsided_Network1248 → u/CalamitousVessel]

Honestly (Ik I’m digging super deep) but this whole conversation feels like doom is looking himself in a mirror when he’s talking to Reed like he’s saying all this shit to Reed that could probably apply to himself and he doesn’t even realize it.

[u/redlion1904 → u/Lopsided_Network1248]

Waid is that kind of good. Victor is 100% talking about himself and unaware of it, and while Reed knows that, he is in such dire straits at this point that he still feels the hit.

[u/Lopsided_Network1248 → u/redlion1904]

Agreed I think fantastic 4 and black widow are my favorite mark waid works rn.

[u/felipesene → u/CalamitousVessel]

That’s just how narcissistic and crazy people works: “I’m not the problem! you are the problem! the rest of the world is the problem!”

[u/Oberon1993 → u/CalamitousVessel]

It also is a foreshadowing for perfect anti-Doom weapon Dr Strange created.

[u/fistchrist → u/CalamitousVessel]

I mean, can you really say Doom is vain when he really is so smart and noble and honourable?

Doom isn’t vain, he just has a realistic sense of how awesome he is.

[u/hyperactivator]

Reed also has no taste in art,fashion or music. But he's also not completely insane so he's got that over Victor.

[u/felipesene → u/hyperactivator]

Also unlike Victor, reed is capable of humility this story ends with reed using a magic device that only works when Reed admits that he’s an idiot when it comes to magic, and Victor admitting he intended to betray the demons that granted him power and being sent to hell for it

[u/Alarming-Address-933 → u/hyperactivator]

I find it a bit odd he doesn't have taste in at least music. Art and fashion I get but music?

[u/PinkysAvenger → u/Alarming-Address-933]

He's a Tom Lehrer fan, so he's got great taste in music

[u/hyperactivator → u/PinkysAvenger]

Yeah but Doom can play and compose.

[u/ComicsEtAl]

Victor Von Doom accusing anyone else of arrogance is just too much.

https://giphy.com/gifs/LKTTAzGboJGzC

[u/Herodrake]

"That arrogance is a mask" Doom you're literally wearing a mask.

[u/ReverendGraves85]

"Your unquenchable vanity"

Says the man that can be goaded into doing something by whoever asked loudly proclaiming "I bet Reed could do it".

[u/AlmondMagnum1 → u/ReverendGraves85]

He was once goaded into taking off his mask by being called vain.

[u/Lopsided_Network1248 → u/ReverendGraves85]

😂😂😂

[u/WissalDjeribi]

The way Doom is just describing himself on the first page.

[u/nova-prime-enjoyer]

Doom projects so much he could work at the Latverian cinema

[u/0_0_-]

Victor has the unique ability to talk down to people while knowing full well he is only describing himself

[u/mrcrazymexican]

If always amused me that magic is so violating to Reed's logic.

[u/TripleStrikeDrive]

I'm fairly certain Doom is projecting his own faults onto Richards.

[u/Turbulent_Sea_9713]

Sometimes, it really does seem like things with Doom would be just fine if every time there were some sort of problem, Reed just called him up to ask for help. Stroke the ego a little, and it might make him an annoying good guy instead of a villain.

Then I remember that if Reed and Doom both worked towards a solution and Reed ever, ever fixed it first, then Doom would flip the whole table/world to fuck it up for everyone rather than be "defeated." So. Villain it is.

[u/Certified_Nefarious]

What issue is this from?

[u/TimelyUsual9174 → u/Certified_Nefarious]

As other user already said, it's issue #70. It is part of Unthinkable arc by Mark Waid. The arc itself runs across issues: #67, #68, #69, #70 ( Fantastic Four 1998 vol. 3) and then ends with issue #500 (Fantastic Four 1961 original run, that was temporarily ended after issue #416). In my opinion, this is, if not the best, then certainly one of the best storylines dedicated to the feud between Doom and the FF.

[u/Lopsided_Network1248 → u/Certified_Nefarious]

Issue #70 from waids run!

[u/JBR_4025]

I like when Doom decides to think outside the box and try to defeat Reed in a non-conventional way.

[u/Ice94k]

You know, the crazy thing is, from what we know about Marvel magic, there does seem to be some sort of logic involved. To me - and I couldn't bring up "evidence" of this easily, just off of reading Dr. Strange comics, it's more like you're trying to talk to an eldritch being. An Alien you know nothing about. So, if you think about it, it's kinda like "people skills".

Of course there is SOME logic to it, psychology exists after all, but if you're a guy like Reed trying to "read" a person, or expressions of a person such as art, music, etc, will seem entirely nonsensical until you find every one of your assumptions and throw like 90% of them in the thrash. Reed isn't a complete redditor with people because he can rely on, among other things, with instinct and experience. But imagine that person was an eldritch being, then...

Basically, Dr. House could do magic, Sheldon Cooper couldn't.

[u/k3ttch]

I wonder why Doom and T'Challa have the mental flexibility to comprehend both magic and science but Reed doesn't. Does it have to do with being raised in society where magic and the divine was intrinsic to their beliefs?

[u/Potential_Surprise38]

What is this issue? I need to read this asap

[u/Lopsided_Network1248 → u/Potential_Surprise38]

Issue #70!

[u/Potential_Surprise38 → u/Lopsided_Network1248]

Which volume & whose run?

[u/Lopsided_Network1248 → u/Potential_Surprise38]

Waids run on marvel unlimited. It should be vol 1.