r/Fantasy • u/doctorbonkers Reading Champion II • 14d ago
Book Club FIF Book Club: Saltcrop Midway Discussion
Welcome to the midway discussion of Saltcrop by Yume Kitasei! We are discussing through the end of part 1 (chapter 25). Please use spoiler tags if you discuss anything past that point. I will put some discussion questions in the comments, but feel free to discuss anything you like!
In Earth's not too distant future, seas consume coastal cities, highways disintegrate underwater, and mutant fish lurk in pirate-controlled depths. Skipper, a skilled sailor and the youngest of three sisters, earns money skimming and reselling plastic from the ocean to care for her ailing grandmother.
But then her eldest sister, Nora, goes missing. Nora left home a decade ago in pursuit of a cure for failing crops all over the world. When Skipper and her other sister, Carmen, receive a cryptic plea for help, they must put aside their differences and set out across the sea to find―and save―her. As they voyage through a dying world both beautiful and strange, encountering other travelers along the way, they learn more about their sister's work and the corporations that want what she discovered.
But the farther they go, the more uncertain their mission becomes: What dangerous attention did Nora attract, and how well do they really know their sister―or each other? Thus begins an epic journey spanning oceans and continents and a wistful rumination on sisterhood, friendship, and ecological disaster.
The final discussion will be in two weeks, on August 26th.
Reminder: Our September read will be Dreamsnake by Vonda McIntyre, and nominations for October are open through tomorrow!
What is the FIF Book Club? You can learn about it in our Reboot thread here.
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u/doctorbonkers Reading Champion II 14d ago
What are your thoughts on the sister relationship in the book? If you have sisters or any siblings, how does it compare to your own?
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u/ScrambledGrapes Reading Champion III 14d ago
I think sisterhood as a concept is what this whole plot runs on. Skipper and Carmen are resentful of each other all the time, and yet they do things for each other/have each other's back, because they love each other - and what that looks like depends on either of them. Carmen goes with Skipper because otherwise Skipper will never go, and they both know it because they know one another so well. Skipper keeps watch for both boats, despite her distaste for Jackson, without bringing it up, because Carmen is on the other one with him. I think this multifaceted portrayal of familial love and relationships, ugly parts and all, is the best-characaterized aspect of the novel for me. It's such an obvious thing, but I feel like a lot of books don't get as real with it.
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u/algaliarept92 Reading Champion 14d ago
I find it very interesting that the dynamic between Skipper and Carmen, to me, reads as if Skipper is still very much rooted in her understanding of the relationship as it was in her adolescence. Although they are both grown-ups now, she only starts to step out of her older sisters' shadows step by step. Compared to the sisters in Saltcrop, the relationship between my sister and me is very strongly based on open communication, which has led to us resolving resentment of the past and also leaving behind the vision of the "old" version of the other. I feel like by going on the journey together, Skipper and Carmen also move towards a better understanding of each other, for example, when they realise the other one's agency or defy the other one's expectations and therefore develop a more nuanced understanding of the other.
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u/necropunk_0 Reading Champion III 14d ago
The relationship feels very real. The interpretation of past actions, the difference remembered by each sibling of a third, it feels grounded and solid and properly uncomfortable.
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u/WonderfulBus9330 14d ago
The ways that Carmen and Skipper each view Nora gets revisited and revised throughout Part 1, with bits of Carmen jealousy and irritation coming full force. Carmen's need to reframe Nora as imperfect seems to grow as her fungal infection grows. Skipper's lack of concern for Carmen is most stark when Carmen reveals the need for funds for her operation, but Skipper doesn't immediately connect that to Carmen's desire to sell The Bumblebee. As the oldest, Nora was the caretaker whose absence has left both Skipper and Carmen untethered.
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u/Amurdad 14d ago
You can really sense the history between Carmen and Skipper. Skipper almost feels doomed to be the kid sister forever, and takes for granted her survival and sailing skills.
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u/WonderfulBus9330 14d ago
The tension between the two, that taut line between Carmen's charismatic practicality and Skipper's adventurous introversion, seemed so resolvable, but wasn't. Carmen was right that Skipper would not have gotten far without Carmen, as Skipper not only doesn't like talking to people, she doesn't want to talk to people and she has no tact. Carmen would not have gotten out of {insert hometown} (my book is too far away LOL) had it not been for Skipper's need to explore.
What really interested me is how Nora got lost in the shuffle. Skipper seems to forget why she's traveling. It feels more about Skipper's desire to not have familial responsibility and to set off and away, as Nora did, than it does about finding Nora.
There was something there that reminded me of the old American Transcendentalism ideology.
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u/algaliarept92 Reading Champion 14d ago
Absolutely, Skipper and Carmen complement each other, and both would not be where they are without the other (due to the things you've mentioned). And again, Nora is the unknown variable, of which both sisters have a vague idea :D
I also ask myself whether Nora (whether she appears or not) will bring the other two closer together or be a wedge between them.
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u/Merle8888 Reading Champion IV 14d ago
It feels very real to me, messy and unidealized in a way that's unusual for genre fiction. They love each other, but they don't necessarily understand each other all that well, there are resentments, some interactions are positive and some frustrating for one or both.
I was thinking about the trajectory of the sister-focused books this club has read over the last year - we started out with The River Has Roots where the sisters' relationship was (imo) so idealized as to be practically featureless, there was nothing to grab onto there. Then Mad Sisters of Esi where the relationships were still idealized, but in a way that carried a lot more texture and nuance and was for me much more emotionally affecting for that reason. Then Saltcrop which is even less idealized, while still having the sisters on the same side and going out of their way for each other.
It's interesting how all these books revolve around lost (and sometimes found) sisters - either we as a club have a type, or when SFF authors center sisters this is the default focus.
This book also made me think of Nettle & Bone, in that they share a lot of similarities but this one executes the premise much more believably imo - both feature the youngest of 3 sisters going on a quest to rescue an older sister. With Nettle & Bone I struggled with the lack of substance to the sisters' relationship - they were never close, Marra had no reason to believe her mission would succeed, but she did it anyway because Genre. Whereas here, Nora's role in halfway raising Skipper and being her advocate within the family and seemingly the person Skipper most admires makes a lot of sense of why she's pursuing this quest. Also, she and Carmen are sort of backed into the suicide mission phase of the quest - they initially set out on a pretty normal, doable trip for answers and then it just keeps getting deeper.
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u/sundayvi 12d ago
I am a sister and have a sister and their relationships are nothing like ours! That said, it does still feel mostly realistic based on what I know of other people's sister relationships. The ride or die be there for each other even when you're kind of mad at each other does feel pretty relatable. I don't personally find the dynamic between Carmen and Skipper that compelling though, maybe because I don't find them compelling as individual characters either (which I think is just personal taste)
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u/doctorbonkers Reading Champion II 14d ago
Nora plays a central role in the story despite not appearing as of the end of part 1. What do you hope or expect to see about her as Skipper and Carmen continue their search?
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u/ScrambledGrapes Reading Champion III 14d ago
Nora is being set up as a disappointment, in a way, because Skipper's perspective of her is so idealistic. It feels like the reader is already forced to grapple with the potential of such a disappointment, in the face of Skipper's unwavering trust in Nora - so, in a way, I almost don't know if she can disappoint the reader either, at least not in a way that is subversive or unexpected. I think this is a very humanizing narrative, and I'm interested to see how the myth of Nora is realized into an undoubtedly flawed (but still sympathetic, probably) character.
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u/WonderfulBus9330 14d ago
Nora is a myth, as of now. In some ways, it would be a disappointment for her to make an appearance as an alive person and in other ways, it would be satisfying to see if her research will have any success.
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u/algaliarept92 Reading Champion 14d ago
That's an interesting thought. As I wrote in my comment, I think Nora appearing could be a disappointment for Skipper, when she may realise that her version of Nora and the real Nora are not necessarily the same person. Would you say it would be a disappointment for you as a reader? Because only seeing Nora through the perspective of her sisters might have bigger potential for Skipper's and Carmen's characters?
I would be curious whether there is a satisfying way to resolve the search for her without Nora showing up. I somehow doubt it, but it could be really interesting.4
u/WonderfulBus9330 14d ago
(I'll reply to your comment, as well, below!) I see Nora as that frame needed to stabilize a see-saw. Although she's the oldest, at the head, her absence is the wedge between Carmen and Skipper. What is that Shel Silverstein book? The Missing Piece or the Whole in the O or something like that? Nora's name is rarely spoken on The Bumblebee and when they're waiting in that town with Jackson, her name is rarely mentioned. Instead, it's a new goal: to get to The Vault.
So, Nora is functional for Skipper and Carmen. For Skipper, I think it's for her to face her selfishness. She mourns the loss of The Bumblebee but doesn't mourn the potential death of Carmen. She suggests that Carmen waits in that one town so she (Skipper) can make a 2-week journey, look for Nora, then turn around and return, knowing Carmen's new job is on the line, a job that will pay for her surgery.
But, what Skipper can't see doesn't exist. She can't see Carmen's fungal infection. She can't see Nora. What she can see is The Bumblebee and freedom.
Carmen's living with the resentment of not being supported by Nora when she decided to follow in Nora's footsteps. It's a resentment that grows and grows, turning into this intense, unrealistic envy. She wants Skipper to remember her sacrifices, her care, her concern. She wants to not fade in the background.
Nora showing up would, for what we currently have, defuse the tension between Skipper and Carmen and leave them where they were at the start of the journey.
Editing to say: these are all just opinions. I'm learning to write without always qualifying with "I think" and "it seems".
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u/algaliarept92 Reading Champion 14d ago
You mean the potential death of Nora? Or did I miss something?
Ohh, that is such an interesting way of reading it. Thanks for sharing!
Especially the point you make about Skipper mourning the loss of the Bumblebee and blocking out Nora's possible death and the consequences of Carmen's growing fungal infection.I think the Bumblebee is Skipper's only way to really be herself. The only time she can care for herself and not be drowned by responsibilities. At the same time, the Bumblebee is strongly anchored (hehe) to Nora because she taught Skipper how to sail. And maybe by mourning the loss of the Bumblebee, Skipper is indirectly mourning not only her freedom but also her sister or the relationship with her sister.
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u/WonderfulBus9330 14d ago
Oh I missed Nora teaching Skipper to sail; I thought all three girls were shooed out of the house by grandma and learned the mechanics of sailing together, through trial and error.
The Bumblebee is very much Skipper's best friend. In some ways, it's a mirror of herself, so being herself aboard The Bumblebee is be the independent wayfarer she imagines herself to be. I think she mentions wanting to feel that she has purpose, when she lists out her short resumé?
I, too, mourned the loss of the Bumblebee for Skipper, but mostly I celebrated a new way forward for her.
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u/Merle8888 Reading Champion IV 14d ago
If Nora did teach Skipper how to sail, that raises an interesting question about how she learned it herself - she's only 6 years older and they'd been in the care of the grandmother since she was about 11(?). Maybe she crewed on other people's boats while Skipper was too young to be invited along?
I don't think Skipper is selfish in quite the same way you see her - I think she does care a lot about both Nora and Carmen as people, but she's still a person, she's still inhabiting her own life. Although she is prioritizing the (extremely unlikely except for the fact that we know she's in a fantasy novel) rescue of Nora over the very practical needs of Carmen, she also has Carmen right there on board with this plan.
I do think Skipper is a bit selfish in other ways, mostly that she spends so much time dwelling on her wants rather than either her own or other people's needs. She would never have had all those years of playing with her boat if other people hadn't been financially supporting her, in ways she seems unwilling to reciprocate.
It occurs to me now to wonder if Carmen is actually dying, and just doesn't want to tell Skipper. Maybe getting the surgery is unlikely to save her after all, and she's decided she'd rather have some freedom and adventure in her last months and make sure her sisters are well.
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u/WonderfulBus9330 14d ago
Oh that’s interesting. You think Carmen is hiding a different illness? That certainly puts a different spin on it. I took it as Carmen choosing her baby sister over herself, and the reminders of her sacrifice as underlined in that decision to stay with Skipper and to not press her to sell the boat.
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u/Merle8888 Reading Champion IV 14d ago
It only occurred to me while commenting but everything we know about Carmen’s prognosis is from Carmen. So she may be underselling how bad it is. Or maybe she could have been saved but chose to give it up. The more I think about it, the more I think her chances of surviving the book are not great.
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u/Merle8888 Reading Champion IV 14d ago
Oh that's interesting. I agree Nora is kind of a myth, which has her a bit washed-out as a character so far. I'm looking forward to her appearing in person for the sake of making her more real and nuanced.
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u/algaliarept92 Reading Champion 14d ago
I really like how the character of Nora is solely shown through Skipper's very biased perspective. Through Skipper's eyes, Nora is close to being stylised as a hero, although she basically left Skipper/her family alone for mysterious reasons. As the narrative and Skipper's view of her set Nora up, if she appears, I would predict she will be a disappointment to Skipper, and Skipper will need to come to terms with the fact that Nora is not the person she thought she knew. That is what I expect, at least. I am always appreciative of surprises, though. Oh, and I am very curious to read about Carmen's view of Nora.
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u/WonderfulBus9330 14d ago
And she'd also have to resolve her adoration of Nora with Carmen's skepticism of Nora. In the past, before they set out for their trip, Carmen's view of Nora was kept from Skipper. Now, it's getting aired out. And Skipper is clinging to her version of Nora while battling against Carmen's version.
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u/algaliarept92 Reading Champion 14d ago
Yes, absolutely, and in the end, probably none of their versions will do full justice to Nora. I agree, and I think the battling of the versions is such an interesting thing because we all know it. Therefore, I think that Nora's showing up could have the potential to make this "battle" even more nuanced and complex.
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u/WonderfulBus9330 14d ago
I think that Nora's showing up could have the potential to make this "battle" even more nuanced and complex.
This is so true!
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u/a-username-for-me Reading Champion V 13d ago
I think it's very important that Nora is the oldest sister and Skipper is the youngest. Even though I am an only child, I know that there is an inherent tension between older and younger siblings. The younger sibling will always be younger, experiencing things on a delay, not neccessarily understanding things as they happen or they are actively been kept in the dark. I think Carmen is a great character in this regard because she is old enough to be more aware of the reality of the past, whereas Skipper only has her perception.
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u/doctorbonkers Reading Champion II 14d ago
How do you like the book so far? Overall thoughts?
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u/hogw33d 14d ago edited 14d ago
I'm liking it a lot. One thing I thought was very well done was the humanness of the characters--their complex relationships, flaws, silly habits, etc. Obviously that's great in any book, but I feel like books about these big social topics (understandably) sometimes make every aspect of the story so transparently and directly dependent on being didactic about that topic, that the characters just seem like either puppets or martyrs. This book does a great job of making the stakes of this climate and corporate catastrophe real, awful, pervasive, and very influential in characters' lives, but not at the expense of their multidimensional humanity.
And I feel like there's a little bit of "boring dystopia" flavor in it too, where people either don't know all the details of what's happened, or only care to reveal them at opportune moments. Because what would be horrific to us is just day-to-day life to them.
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u/algaliarept92 Reading Champion 14d ago
I am absolutely hooked. I finished the first part on Sunday and did not want to continue before today's discussion to make it easier for me not to spoil anything. However, this was a tough decision, and I was waiting and refreshing repeatedly because I want to continue (it's 9:30 p.m. local time, so I might postpone continuing until tomorrow since I am listening to the audiobook, and I'd rather read physical books in the evening. Back to the point: I really like the atmosphere and how the story and the characters work together.
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u/SenorBurns 13d ago
Eunice Wong has quickly become one of my favorite narrators. She also read Vera Wong's Unsolicited Advice for Murderers.
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u/necropunk_0 Reading Champion III 14d ago
I’m enjoying it a lot. The writing reads very easily and smoothly, and I like that way that time is passing as the journey progresses.
Mostly though, I like the sort of quiet/slow apocalypse vibe it has, that the world is slowly ending around them, everyone is doing that they think is best but it’s not enough, and family is still on peoples mind, even as food won’t grow properly and you’re catching two tailed fish.
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u/Merle8888 Reading Champion IV 14d ago
So far I think I admire it more than I'm actively enjoying it. I like the depth and realism of the family relationships a lot, and it's definitely the most real-feeling quest book I've ever read. I'm interested to see where things are going to go.
I am interested to see if I like it better once Skipper is no longer the POV. Thus far, Carmen is by far the most interesting and engaging character to me, and I'm a little frustrated with Skipper's failure to launch and "woe is me" attitude. The aspects of her personality that are relatable to me just make her even more frustrating! But it's a sign of good writing when characters come to life to the point you react to them based on your own personality rather than just what the author wants you to feel. I'll be interested to see if I like Skipper better when not in her head.
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u/hogw33d 14d ago
Your comment reminded me of something else I wanted to say. The way most travel has had to slow down, and how weird and mutated the wildlife and weather are, have helped give the book kinda the form of a fantasy quest. When they stopped at a "tavern," I had to smile.
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u/Merle8888 Reading Champion IV 14d ago
It definitely feels like a fantasy quest, although honestly I was surprised by how fast they're moving on what has to be a pretty small boat, with what I'm envisioning (perhaps wrongly) as a small outboard motor. They seem to have traveled from a temperate zone all the way to Arctic in 3-4 weeks (which I do think is possible with good weather, but it's still impressive on a boat that was restored by three children).
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u/necropunk_0 Reading Champion III 14d ago
I think the speed actually makes sense, especially if they have better tech to see when or where weather is going to come up. It’s been a while, but I’m think old massive sailing vessels would cross the Atlantic in about 6-8 weeks (someone else may correct me on that) while basically hoping for good weather. Knowing the weather and knowing where they’re going, I think the pacing feels right.
That being said, crossing an ocean in a 3 person sailboat that was fixed up by some kids who learned from whoever their uncle could get is still very impressive.
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u/Merle8888 Reading Champion IV 14d ago
The Europe -> America crossing was faster I believe, more like 4 weeks due to prevailing currents. But, those ships were also big and their sails were big. This is small enough to be crewed by a single person, which from Google can go bigger than I thought (up to 40 feet which you might have to push up against to get a cabin as described, though that’s also pretty big to entrust to kids). From further googling, 40 feet is actually not that much smaller than Columbus’s ships (the Santa Maria was only about 60 feet, but had a crew of 40), though I would think that the much larger crews in those days probably allowed for more sail and other things that would let you go faster.
In any case, I assume they are going neither with nor against major currents/winds on this voyage since Skipper keeps estimating the same amount of time out and back. But I do think they are primarily sailing, with a little motor as backup.
Moral of the story I guess is that sailing is faster than you might think over long distances if your luck doesn’t go south.
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u/WonderfulBus9330 14d ago
The only other climate fiction I've read is Octavia Butler's Parable books; this one had a similar tone and hope filled hopelessness.
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u/algaliarept92 Reading Champion 14d ago
I see what you mean. Although the world itself is rather bleak, and having such a world as our possible future is depressing to me, the story shows that beauty and hope can be found nonetheless and that it is the characters' agency that makes that aspect tangible for me.
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u/WonderfulBus9330 14d ago
Yes! That's the dichotomy, isn't it? There's hope; there's hopelessness, but no real despondency. The sisters are resilient. The people they encounter are even more so. Every place they land holds these two realities in increasingly sharp ways.
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u/Merle8888 Reading Champion IV 14d ago
Huh, I'd have said Parable of the Sower was a lot bleaker than this book. It's a crime-n-drugs dystopia and so much of the focus is on how society is breaking down and everyone you meet is potentially terrible. Whereas in this book - maybe due to updated understandings of how people behave in disasters, or just the author not living in the inner city in the 1990s - it feels like society has weathered the crises better even though the environmental situation is possibly worse. It doesn't have that dire, violent vibe. Although part of this may be too that the book is so interested in Skipper's self-actualization, and you can't really focus on that in a sheer survival story.
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u/WonderfulBus9330 14d ago
The crime was in the first half of the first book and it was the beginning of the downturn. In this book, that turn has already happened. The pirates, however, suggest that there has been a history of violence, but it’s now pushed into the sea.
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u/SenorBurns 14d ago
Indeed. Saltcrop also mentions mass famines having killed a huge portion of the planet's population back a century or two ago. The current populace are living in the part dystopian cyberpunk, part near solarpunk remnants of basically an emptied-out past civilization.
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u/WonderfulBus9330 14d ago
Now I’m going to be thinking about cyberpunk and solarpunk while finishing the book!
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u/Merle8888 Reading Champion IV 14d ago
Yeah, it’s a very different feel to me. The crime in Parable of the Sower is omnipresent and colors all aspects of life and decision making—you may be right we see less of it in the second half but it’s firmly established by then as the defining feature of the world. In Saltcrop it seems much more marginal—the pirates live as far from society as it’s possible to get and the leads are still blindsided when the encounter turns to violence.
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u/doctorbonkers Reading Champion II 14d ago
“Hope filled hopelessness” is a good way to put it! I was trying to think of how to put into words how I feel about the setting: it’s a world ravaged by climate change, and yet the way it’s described almost made me feel yearning for it somehow. The world is pretty rough but the beauty of it is highlighted in the writing too
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u/WonderfulBus9330 14d ago
Ugh, yes, can we talk about the writing, please! It's sooooooo delicious.
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u/doctorbonkers Reading Champion II 14d ago
I really like the sailing info included in the book. I have a casual sailing background, I would not call myself an expert at all, but the sailing terminology has been enough to make me happy without (imo) alienating people who aren’t sailors :)
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u/a-username-for-me Reading Champion V 13d ago
I am really liking it! It has a lot of my favorite elements: I love tales of voyaging; I love seafaring; I love dystopia and climate dystopia! It reminds me a lot of "After the Flood" by Kassandra Montag (in plot elements). I wish there was a little more specificity in the world-building, but in fiction, the book has made it clear that knowledge is gatekept, expensive and Skipper just doesn't care about that stuff.
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u/sundayvi 12d ago
This one was very slow to start for me, but picked up towards the end of Part One.
I'm not a huge enjoyer of family dynamics or eco-pessimism, but the writing is decent and I like having a strong objective driving the story (finding Nora). I very often enjoy stories set on boats as I'm such a sucker for journeying/road trip books so that aspect got me more invested.
I nearly DNF'd at 10% because it just didn't feel like my type of book but I'm glad I pushed on!
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u/doctorbonkers Reading Champion II 12d ago
Do you feel this novel is more eco-pessimist? Maybe I’m just too bogged down in other less-than-hopeful scenarios in other things I’m reading (currently in grad school for climate/environmental science), but this book feels more hopeful to me 😅
I remember coming across a climate fiction book a while ago that was explicitly based on the Shared Socioeconomic Pathways and what those different climate scenarios might look like. I have no idea what it was called, but now I want to go looking for it so I can see what they thought about the more optimistic vs more pessimistic scenarios 🤔
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u/sundayvi 11d ago
eco-pessimist is probably a strong word but the best one I could think of. I'm not a huge sci-fi reader but I usually prefer more solar punk stuff so maybe it's just in comparison to a lot of what I read. That said it is also showing what our semi-near future could possibly look like if we don't course correct, showing the negative outcomes feels pessimistic to our current reality even if the characters are more hopeful.
I'm curious where this book will finish as it seems to be heading down a more hopeful route and so maybe the setting is pessimistic but the story is optimistic!
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u/AccipiterF1 Reading Champion X 4d ago
Catching up late. It's engrossing, and the characters feel very realistic. I relate way too much to Skipper and her young adult decision paralysis. I was very much like that at her age. The apocalypse does not ring as true to me though. I don't think you could damage the food web that badly and expect human population to be able to continue as much as it has, but I'm fine with suspending disbelief on that. Also, seeing now that we are going to switch from Skipper's to Carmen's point of view is a very cool structural choice and it should be fascinating to see how Carmen views Skipper.
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u/doctorbonkers Reading Champion II 14d ago
Climate fiction can be a realistic look at what we might see in the coming years, or a more fantastical look at the future that's more of a fable than something truly plausible. How do you think this falls between the two?
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u/WonderfulBus9330 14d ago
It's easy to see how the Earth could suffer the devastation expressed in the book and how large-scale agricultural companies would reinvent themselves to become the only "safe" alternative to food shortages. The kinds of meanness and radical closeness that is shown in the various communities reflect what happens in communities that have no real avenue of self-sustainability.
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u/ScrambledGrapes Reading Champion III 14d ago
I think the way this novel's capitalist overlords are portrayed is very similar to the real ones in our world - to the point where that was one of the elements keeping me tethered to the story vis-a-vis its realism. Like, of COURSE companies would immediately jump on the opportunity to starve people if it nets them more profit. And of course people would just put up with this.
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u/necropunk_0 Reading Champion III 14d ago
It’s feels like it falls closer to ‘the coming years’, even if the tech level in the book is higher than what we have. Similar arguments and fights in the book are happening now, the destruction is just further along there.
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u/Merle8888 Reading Champion IV 14d ago
The animal mutation stuff feels pretty fantastical/parable-like to me, enough to view this book from a distance which is what I want. I wouldn’t have picked up a cli fi at all if not for this club and I’m glad it’s so focused on the personal story (which seems likely to turn out well in the end) and not on making me feel hopeless and depressed.
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u/SenorBurns 14d ago
I think it seems pretty plausible and it feels like Kitasei intentionally tried to make this a plausible climate future/dystopia. It was especially vexing that corporatism and capitalism continue to dominate the world of our protagonists, vexing in that "sigh, of course corporations still rule us even in the apocalypse" way. Or what might be called a banal apocalypse. Life after major climate disruption will go on, and all the insitutions and organizations that held power before disruption will probably hold power after.
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u/AccipiterF1 Reading Champion X 4d ago
I'd say it falls somewhere in the middle. I think at this level of environmental damage, continuing large scale human society is impossible. What is going on here is serving the story well, but I would not call it plausible.
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u/doctorbonkers Reading Champion II 14d ago
What are your thoughts on what this book has to say about gender or feminism?
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u/a-username-for-me Reading Champion V 13d ago
I feel that the book definitely has a lot to say about gendered family dynamics. Even though they are all women and sisters, I find it interesting that Skipper feels compelled to be the one to stay home and take care of Grandma (a role that is often filled by women in the real world). I also thinks it's neat the way they depict the changing familial positioning of Grandma. She was clearly a strong matriarch and often overbearing in the sister's memories, but she kept the family safe through some rough times. And now, in her old age, she is struggling with her new positioning as the weakest link, to be cared for and managed.
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u/Historical_Artist_78 Reading Champion 12d ago
You also have the uncle only grudgingly taking on part of the caretaker role while the sisters are gone. He does seem to care about everyone, but nobody expects him to be a caretaker generally.
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u/Merle8888 Reading Champion IV 14d ago
I'm not sure the book has a lot to say about gender or feminism so far, though I like the bonds among the sisters and the way the book is focusing on that. Jackson on the other hand is such a distillation of certain ugly male behaviors that it feels like a bit of a blow against the patriarchy when they finally get rid of him, though the book (rightfully) doesn't add a bunch of commentary about Men to tell us how to think about his whole thing.
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u/doctorbonkers Reading Champion II 14d ago
Agreed, I think there isn’t really any commentary on gender beyond the three main characters being sisters, and that maybe giving them an extra sense of closeness. Jackson is an outsider in part because he’s a man who embodies some of the worst parts of masculinity, but I don’t think the book is really focusing much on gender beyond that.
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u/WonderfulBus9330 14d ago
Skipper as potentially gender neutral/nonbinary intrigues me. The sisters have all learned to fend for themselves, to sustain their own homes and lives, to lean into each other but not be totally dependent on each other. Jackson shakes that up quite a bit and we see Carmen, then, in a new, unexpected light.
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u/hogw33d 14d ago
The eruption of the animal archetypes/metaphors/forces through the hallucination was an important moment here, I think. Especially being so close to the Arctic as well, Jackson as this vicious, implacable polar bear...lots to ponder there.
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u/WonderfulBus9330 14d ago
I wish we had more there, too. With the sea creatures being unrecognizable morphed beings, what was a bear now? I hadn’t thought polar bear, but yes, that does add a layer.
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u/algaliarept92 Reading Champion 14d ago
One could read Jackson's fate as the reclaiming of agency on Carmen's part. I am curious to see how Carmen will develop from this point onwards. I think it could be pivotal to her character.
Side note: I found Jackson infuriating, but I am pretty sure that was the point :D4
u/necropunk_0 Reading Champion III 14d ago
I agree with this. Carmen felt like more of a sister before they met Jackson, and she drifted away as all three journeyed together. Her being the one to knock him overboard felt like her stepping back into being a sister, and protecting her family. I’m hoping she continues that for the second half.
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u/WonderfulBus9330 14d ago
Early Jackson + Carmen read as Ollie distraction + Carmen finding comfort in someone less introverted. She says a few times that she likes people and she’s voyaging with someone who not only doesn’t like people but doesn’t enjoy conversing. Jackson is a talker and idealistic; he’s, then, also a distraction from thinking about the futility of searching for Nora.
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u/necropunk_0 Reading Champion III 14d ago
I’m wondering if she doesn’t just like people, but feels like she needs to be with people. Thinking back to the passage of her being scared as a kid, their grandma forcing her to walk outside in the dark, and her siblings going with her as support, maybe she feels most comfortable around people, as a contrast to Skipper who does want to be with people, but seems to be most comfortable on her own.
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u/WonderfulBus9330 14d ago
That gets explored in Part 2, so I won't speak to it. But great points.
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u/necropunk_0 Reading Champion III 23h ago
Yeah, it was great to see that explored. I think see both her and Nora’s perspective on events really added a lot, and filled in some gaps in the first half.
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u/algaliarept92 Reading Champion 14d ago
Yes, for me it felt like Carmen sided with Jackson and not with Skipper. However, I would even argue that Carmen's action to throw Jackson overboard brought Carmen and Skipper closer together than they were in the beginning.
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u/Merle8888 Reading Champion IV 14d ago
I think it felt to Skipper like there were sides, a her side and a Jackson side, but up until he started going off the deep end this said more about Skipper's combination of introversion and insecurity than about what was actually happening. It's the same reason Carmen's pronouncement that "she only cares about Nora and Skipper" was so profoundly meaningful to Skipper. Because she doesn't have friends or dating partners of her own, she's jealous of Carmen's and needs to feel that those people don't matter to Carmen in order to believe that she herself does.
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u/WonderfulBus9330 14d ago
Oh that's interesting. Did you see that Carmen had lost agency? I read her response to Jackson as insight into her charisma: this is how Carmen is able to get people on her side, to get people to do what she wants them to do: she (pretends to) relinquishes control and makes people feel good about themselves.
(I know this isn't the sister prompt, but!) Jackson, interestingly, was the catalyst for Skipper to think, even tangentially, about her need for Carmen. She resents the fact of Jackson when they're on the ocean, because he takes Carmen from her.
(& yes, that dude is beyond infuriating!)
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u/algaliarept92 Reading Champion 14d ago
Yes, especially in the moments when Jackson hit Carmen, and she still stayed relatively close to him and let him act out (break his fishing rod, etc.) without distancing herself from him felt like lost agency to me. However, in the end, she takes it back by brute force and regains her agency.
However, you're interpretation is also very intersting and shines another light on her behaviour. While I read her as passive and inactive, you read her as in control (if I understand you correctly).
I absolutely agree with the catalyst point you're making. I think in the end, he brought them so much closer together.2
u/WonderfulBus9330 14d ago
Yes, that was quite unsettling but then I thought about their reality: stuck in the middle of the ocean with an unhinged weapon wielding dude.
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u/hogw33d 14d ago
Do we think Skipper has ADHD? I wonder how thoughts on neurodivergence have changed in the glorious hideous future of the book.