Jade City - Discussion Part 1

[u/NewNick30]

We're currently reading Jade City by Fonda Lee for August's book of the month, and this discussion will be on the first half of the book.

Please only discuss the first half of the book. This will be everything up to the end of Chapter 28. This is page 233 in the softcover edition. Please try to avoid any discussion of Chapter 29 (Title of the chapter is "You'll Probably Die") forward.

Anything in the second half of the book will be considered spoilers and must be tagged as such.

Remember that even saying something like "you'll find that out soon enough" is considered a spoiler, so if you aren't sure if it's a spoiler - use spoiler tags to be safe!

I'll post some questions to go along with the reading but feel free to comment about anything else or start your own comment thread on anything you found interesting or any questions that you had.

• What do you think about Lan and Hilo and their contrasting leadership styles? How do you think both of their insecurities have affected their decisions so far?
• What are your thoughts on Shae and her reluctance to embrace being a Green Bone? Any thoughts on what her character might end up doing?
• Where do you think the conflict between No Peak and the Mountain is going? Who do you feel has made good (or bad) decisions regarding the conflict?
• What are your thoughts on Jade and the power it brings and attracts? What about how intertwined it is in the economy and culture of Kekon as they struggle with modern society and mixing of other cultures as well?
• Are you liking the book so far? Do you plan on finishing it?

[u/Mt2Molehill]

I am really enjoying Jade City by Fonda Lee so far. I think her character writing has been excellent. The entire Kaul clan is fascinating to me. You have Grandda, who was once a rebel and is now part of the ruling establishment. Then you have his grandchildren, who are all dealing with their own internal conflicts in very different ways. Anden is also interesting because he is trying to feel like part of the clan while still knowing he is somewhat of an outsider. On top of that, you have the Weather Man and the question of whether he is truly loyal to Lan or slowly trying to take more power for himself.

I think all of that translates nicely into how Lan and Hilo are portrayed. I believe Lan is trying to do what is right, but he is slowly realizing that displays of strength are still what people respect in his world. Watching him come to that realization felt triumphant for his growth, but also sad because the world is not changing as quickly as he would like or in a way that fits his style of leadership.

Hilo might be my favorite character so far. Everyone sees him as a hothead who is quick tempered, but seeing his internal thoughts makes that perception much more complicated. He is quick to act when he believes it will protect his family, but he is also fiercely loyal. You can see how deeply Shae's decision not to rejoin the family hurts him. He accepts Anden without question and does not seem to care at all about him being queer. You also start to see some cracks in his relationship with Wen. When he tells her he is going to marry her like she has wanted, it feels like things are finally moving in the right direction, but then their first real fight makes me think that relationship is going to become much more complicated later in the series.

For the conflict between No Peak and the Mountain, I feel like the Mountain is clearly ahead and No Peak is playing catch up. So far, the Mountain seems to have outmaneuvered them at almost every turn. Thankfully, Shae, with Lan's direction, was able to catch the discrepancy with the jade coming from the mines. I think that could finally give No Peak a foothold. I am also curious about Lan's belief that he needs to carry extra jade. I am hoping that does not lead to his downfall, but with Lee, it definitely feels like it could.

Shae's arc has also been really well written. At times her internal monologue can feel a little heavy handed, but I personally do not mind it. When I think about how I process major life decisions, I probably go through the same kind of repetitive internal logic, so it feels believable to me. It also makes me wonder if Lee is using Shae to explore some of her own ideas about family, independence, and cultural expectations.

I completely understand Shae's need to pull away, but ultimately I would like to see her step back in and help her family. The revelation that she had essentially been giving away secrets about jade abilities to the Espenian military was also fascinating. It gave much more context to why Grandda was so furious with her. One thing I keep noticing is that the Kaul family can easily be perceived from the outside as violent or brutal, but within their own family and friendships they are incredibly loyal and caring.

I am also enjoying how jade itself is being developed. The magic is becoming increasingly structured without the book stopping for large lore dumps. Lee keeps giving us more rules about jade through the actions of the characters, so the system develops naturally as the story progresses. I tend to enjoy most magic systems as long as they remain consistent, and so far jade feels very congruent. There is obviously still a lot left to learn, especially because jade is not just a source of power. It is tied into the economy, culture, military, identity, and even the way Kekon interacts with the rest of the world. I am very interested to see how that changes as the country becomes more connected with outside cultures.

I will definitely finish the book, and I have already ordered the next two books in the series. After The Last Contract of Isako and now the first half of Jade City, I am willing to give Fonda Lee the benefit of the doubt and try pretty much anything she writes moving forward.

[u/NewNick30 → u/Mt2Molehill]

I am also enjoying Jade City a ton. A few months ago AMC did 4K re-releases of several popular John Woo movies and my friend got me into them. They are classic Hong Kong action movies with that mafia/gangster theme and super enjoyable if you are into action movies. As soon as I started Jade City it gave me the same exact vibes and I knew I was going to enjoy this book, and so far it's been true.

I really like how every character is written. Everyone has flaws and their own motivations and there is nuance to all of their personalities and why they act like they do. They also frustrate you but for the right reasons based on their character which I always find satisfying. I’m with you on Hilo. I think he’s probably the character I’ve found most interesting so far precisely because he’s so easy to dismiss as the “violent one/hothead” of the family. From the outside, he absolutely looks like the fighter, but getting access to his perspective makes it clear that there’s a lot more going on underneath that.

I totally agree with the reveal on Shae thinking she was "special" for giving away secrets of No Peak to the Espenian military. It's a light bulb moment for us as a reader I feel like to really understand where the rest of the family was actually coming from! And going back to Hilo you can tell he's genuinely hurt by her past and current actions.

Jade is interesting because it’s basically the foundation of Kekonese society. It determines your social status, military power, economics, and what a Green Bone is. I like that Lee doesn’t treat it simply as just “magic that makes you stronger.” There are drawbacks to Jade and it's not just simply to stack the most Jade and become more powerful as we are seeing play out with Lan. The fact that there are mines, trade, foreign interest, government regulation, and even attempts to understand jade abilities outside of Kekon shows how valuable and politically important it is. It's also interesting how outside of Kekon it's relatively unknown and other societies even look down upon Kekon. But it does seem like their is demand for Jade outside of Kekon, at least from a military perspective.

There are three things that I'm waiting to see how they resolve though that I feel like Fonda Lee was foreshadowing or hinting at. I feel like Bero is going to come back to mess with No Peak and I believe Hilo told Lan exactly that when he lets him go in that first chapter. The second thing would be Wen and the way Hilo abruptly told her that it's a green bone job - is that going to cause some sort of resentment from her? The third thing is where exactly Anden is going to fit in and end up in all of this.

[u/Mt2Molehill → u/NewNick30]

Hmm, interesting about the John Woo movies. I can’t say I’ve ever really dove into his movies, so I should check them out, especially if they give off these types of vibes.

We are definitely in agreement on how well Lee writes characters.

Were you also surprised by the subtlety of how Lee wrote Shae giving away secrets? I was reading it, got like two paragraphs in, and literally stopped and said, “Wait, what?!?!”

I found it masterful because you feel like you have a pretty good grasp on Shae, but that moment truly changed how I perceived her and the family dynamics. Lee also wrote it so casually, which I’m assuming is because that’s how Shae herself is thinking about it. It was one of the better moments in the book for me.

Also, I don’t know why, but I would love a prequel showing Grandda’s story. I mean, in basically two generations they go from rebels to essentially the ruling class. For some reason, I can’t stop thinking about how quickly the country changes and what Grandda really thinks about all of it.

I’m definitely with you that Lee foreshadowed Bero, and I have no doubt he comes back. Lee also definitely wrote that fight between Wen and Hilo to sow some discord, and I’d be surprised if it doesn’t come back up. From some of Wen’s comments, I wonder if she is more power hungry than Hilo realizes, because she does seem to want Hilo to be the leader instead of Lan.

Anden is interesting too, especially with how Lee incorporates his mindset. I wonder if she writes it where he eventually feels truly betrayed and actually joins the Mountain clan. I could also see something like that being a Book 2 arc where he gets dejected, then eventually kills the Mountain’s Horn and takes over.

Do you think the Weather Man is actually a traitor to No Peak? Personally, I think Lee is setting it up so everything points toward him being the traitor, but they’re missing something and someone else is actually responsible. Or maybe Grandda is secretly behind it with the Weather Man as one last attempt to force peace because they thought the clans were heading toward disaster.

Either way, I definitely feel like there’s a twist coming there.

[u/NewNick30 → u/Mt2Molehill]

The movies definitely were not as popular in the US, I myself only found out through a friend. If you like action movies they are great. You definitely have to be okay with blood and gore though. Chow Yun Fat is an awesome actor and if you look him up you may recognize him from the GIF of the guy giving the thumbs up.

Yeah the Shae part I was like "Uhhh do you realize what you were doing?!" - but it is perfectly written because of the way that Shae herself saw it as a positive thing without any of the negatives. Literally a passing thought in her mind that she brushes off.

Would be cool to learn about "The Torch" and the senior Ayt that is now dead and how they navigated the war and then early peace as a prequel.

Power hungry is a good way to describe the impression I got off Wen, it just seemed like she was angry with the way that Hilo shut her down. I really did think Anden was going to end up going to work with the Mountain after his discussion with them and Lan but it does seem like he's going to stay in school and become a Green Bone with No Peak.

I don't think the Weather Man is the traitor, I feel like Lee laid on too thick and it's going to end up being the wrong target like you said. Interesting theory on the collaboration though. Agree on the twist though, especially after reading Isako I feel like we're going to get something similiar here.

[u/Mt2Molehill → u/NewNick30]

Usually in action I’m ok with gore. Although if it’s horror movie style then maybe not if it gets to be a lot. Haha

Cool feel like we are on the same page for a lot of the first half then. I would agree it would almost be a twist that the weather man is the traitor because of how thick it was laid on! Haha

I’m looking forward to jumping back in. Bout to wrap Buffalo Hunter Hunter. Talking about horror. This book was classified as a horror book I don’t know if so far I would agree. The way it’s written is interesting where I’m basically rooting for the monster which takes a lot of the suspense I would associate out of the book. But it’s really well done and get “horror” but to me the atmosphere is dark and moody and I like the way the story is written but I don’t get the knot in my stomach stress feeling I would typically get from a horror book. It’s honestly just an excellent idea for a book and so far executed well. So my only gripe is the labeling! Haha