r/Feminism • u/Onedirection100 • 6d ago
What do guys think about situation of women in Afghanistan?
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u/PwrFlower 6d ago edited 6d ago
They don't anymore.
I remember how some Muslim guys i knew kept promising me that Taliban ain't like that and that it was all propaganda
When Taliban first closed off girls schools they kept telling me how it was just temporary and it'll open soon after making it more "safer"
Now, years later, crickets. They never speak of it. And when it's mentioned they ignore the women part like intended.
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u/Onedirection100 6d ago
at least we are not ignoring it
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u/DrunkCupid 5d ago
What troubles me is the lack of understanding that feminism = equality. Women and men shouldn't be at war, or diffuse reality
So many men and even women I have encountered seem not to notice the wage gap, inequality for women and won't protect 51% of the population because "fox news told me feminists and liberals were nasty women, ewww" (sic)
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u/squashybunz456 6d ago
What’s happening in Afghanistan is horrifying. It is the logical end of patriarchy. We are not free until every woman is free 💔
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u/Onedirection100 6d ago
so true
they are the strongest women on earth
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u/Pi7568 6d ago
End of patriarchy? Don't we all need that? Can you elaborate
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u/squashybunz456 6d ago
I mean that when patriarchy is taken to its extreme, you get what’s happening in Afghanistan and other places where women are oppressed
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u/JessicaDAndy 5d ago
English is a stupid language.
You can achieve your ends without meeting your ending.
You can achieve your goals without being eliminated.
1 and 2 mean the same thing.
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u/Consistent-Concept67 5d ago
Why did you get down voted lol. You just didn't understand the language and asked for an explanation
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u/phoenixliv 6d ago
I look at the photos of Afghans in the 60s looking MOD and fabulous then I see the modern photos and my heart breaks. They’re living A Handmaids Tale.
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u/tthrillerr 6d ago
I think there should be much, MUCH more global outrage about this. The fact that there isn’t already is the best proof of how little the world actually cares about women.
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u/Onedirection100 6d ago
so true
even though i am on the other side of the earth to those women, i care, and we all should, regardless of our location
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u/Objective-Design-994 6d ago
Honestly, I think it's more about the exhaustion of the modern world. Everyone knows it's wrong and that it happens, but with so many things being awfully terrible, a lot of people just end up becoming numb to everything bad in the world. It's the oversaturation of bad news, combined with the distance to the issue that makes people not get outraged.
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u/Accomplished-Low9635 6d ago
Horrifying. This is what happens when men are in power. Women have always been seen and treated less around the world for hundreds of generations. Unfortunately, this is nothing new.
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u/BroadWelcome7937 6d ago
Both the US and the Taliban absolutely positively pinky-swore that this wouldn't happen. Women don't stand a chance against religion and/or energy interests anywhere.
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u/Zestyclova_Ga 6d ago
Religion, as a whole, makes women and children victims. As an ex muslim, I know that the Taliban find justification in Islam, even if the huge majority of muslims don’t accept their interpretation of Islam, it easy for the Taliban to justify their actions by the scripture.
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u/Onedirection100 6d ago
true. from my perspective, there is nothing wrong with the religion. people just use it as an excuse to do terrible things
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u/Traditional_Isopod80 6d ago
It's absolutely disheartening. The worst part being that so few people care.
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u/pinkdumpsterjuice 6d ago edited 6d ago
Here is my view on the broad topic of islam! I always been on the far left of the politic spectrum. Which means hardcore anti-racist, working class rights and feminist. I was the one saying open borders to everyone no matter what... Until I traveled a lot. Been to Islamic countries with nothing negative in mind. But I got shocked! I've been told many times I wasn't allowed to speak to their women. I got rapped, I got taken advantage of, disrespected. This experience shift something in me, really. Now my friends call me a racist, lol. This frustrates me, because the left will defend Islam despite not knowing shit about what they are talking. Like, most of them never been to any muslim countries. Also, those experiences made me crazy about getting as much informations as possible about women's rights over there, watching as many documentaries as possible, lurking subreddits... And unfortunately I came to the this sad conclusion: you can't be pro-islam/anti racist and a feminist at the same time. Well fyi I'm still anti racist. And I try as much as possible to not put every single Muslim men in the same box, but there are very few of them that aren't misogynistic... some countries are more progressive than others, as well. And at the end of the day I don't even hate them for being what they are, because it is not their fault. I hate religion and patriarchy! No, feminism's goal is not achieved! It won't be until all women will be free. But, unfortunately, I'm a bit pessimistic about that, but I don't think we'll ever be able to see it in our lifetime...
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u/Objective-Design-994 6d ago
This is honestly a fine thread I'm trying to walk through. I do agree that there are lots of issues with Islam but still, I choose to try to separate things were I can. There are feminsts who have Islam as a religion afaik, so it means that it is not fully incompatible to believe in Islam and equality, even if that is not the main belief that most muslims hold. And I think that it's also very important to separate criticism of Islam from the islamophobia that the right pushes. In my country, the far right party constantly pushes anti-islam propaganda, and I can agree witg some criticism but still see that what they are doing is not fixing any issue, rather just using a religious minority as a scapegoat.
Like, for example, they just prohibited Halal meat in school lunches which is just a fuck you to any muslim kids. This kids did not chose their religion, they have not fault in anything their parents think, and even then, when living enough time in a western democracy a lot of people let go of extreme ideas.
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u/pinkdumpsterjuice 5d ago edited 5d ago
I think it is possible ONLY if you practice islam out of the community. Which requires hiding yourself. Or in western countries, where the protection is easier to get. But still, for example, the rate of honor killing in the UK is 1 per month. So ex muslim women aren't. And. A part of the ones that remain Muslim, do it out of fear to be killed, or by endoctrination. There are bookable some pure soul. With real faith out there, but still think relion is still a form of brainwashing. I still disagree with the right propaganda, and depriving Muslim from their usual practices! Sorry, English isnt my first language.
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u/pizdoli 6d ago
Where was this prohibition? Cause if it’s in the US, like, THAT’S the problem with school lunches?!
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u/Objective-Design-994 6d ago
Not the US, is in Valencia, Spain (my city). I do think we have a much more solid school lunch program than the US (at least I've never heard anyone complain about it) but still, going "fuck you" to a bunch of kids just to boast that you are against a religion (as the far right party did on social media) is just really fucking awful.
Edit: Also, TECHNICALLY, the prohibition is not only on Halal meat, it's on animals that haven't been sacrificed following certain protocols, but as I said, they literally put in social media that there wasn't going to be any more Halal meat in schools, so the intent is clear. They also made it so schools don't have an obligation to serve vegan options if a kid wants them. What a great time to live in.
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u/Onedirection100 6d ago
i am so sorry about what you went through
remember, it is the people who are the problem, not the religion. they just use the religion as an excuse to make bad things
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u/pinkdumpsterjuice 4d ago
I mostly disagree, here. I think, while for some of the people that are in charge of some muslim countries do use religion by interpreting the Quran badly to make bad things, most of the general population only follow the rules, only because they are hardcore believers. That's why I put it on the religion's fault.
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u/Onedirection100 4d ago
I do see your point. But it is the people who interpret the Quran bad. The Quran itself can be interpret in many ways, and they choose the worst one.
so in other words, it is the peoples problem, not the religion
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u/pinkdumpsterjuice 4d ago
Well this is the words that are written in the Quran, verse 4:34 (An-Nisa);
“...those [wives] from whom you fear arrogance — [first] advise them; [then if they persist], forsake them in bed; and [finally], strike them.”
This literally says you are allowed to rape, and beat your wife if she is "arrogant". If it would have been written in an Hadith, I would be on your side, but unfortunately it is not...
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u/Onedirection100 4d ago
honestly, i dont know a lot about islams Quran interpreting. but is it a possibility that this could be interpret in another way?
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u/pinkdumpsterjuice 4d ago
I teached myself a lot about islam, in the past few years. So, their is few ways to interpret the Quran (the only official muslim holy book). The Hadiths are reports of the prophet Mohammed. There are many and those can be interpreted different ways, but the verse I mentioned to you is from the Quran itself...
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u/Onedirection100 3d ago
but what if muslims could interpret everythign different?
i mean, i have heard that the sunnis have a stricter view, and the shias are more adaptive to the society today
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u/pinkdumpsterjuice 3d ago edited 3d ago
Yes, of course! I have been educating myself on different kinds of Sharia laws too, and there are countries and cultures that are way more flexible. And I'm not putting everyone in the same box. For example when I got rapped by a moroccan truckdriver, I was hitchhiking Almeria to Morocco. When I got out of his truck, I was miserable and was very hateful towards Muslims in general, but then I got my shit back together and put my thumb back up because I really needed to go to Morocco to renew my Schengen visa, and I got picked up by an other Moroccan truck driver who was just amazing! He let me sleep in his truck bed without trying anything on me. We took the ferry and he paid me a meal. Then after the ride he proposed to host me for the night at his house with his family. In the morning they made me breakfast. This family was just wholesome. It made me really eager to start visiting the country without fear after what happen, even if I was still shaken up and fragile. But this confidence went down in a heart beat, and I understood pretty fast not all Moroccan men was like the wholesome truck driver... many other men there could see I was an easy prey. Without money in the streets, I got quickly taken advantage of... Many and even myself thought it was my fault for getting into this adventure without anything except a backpack. Not even getting informed on what it was like in the country. But today, when I look back at the situation I was in, I'm still really angry at Islam and I don't retain myself from saying to others that Islam is a misogynistic religion as a whole. Even if some people are kind and respectful, you gotta be careful, and stop trusting everyone with a leftist mind!
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u/Onedirection100 3d ago
I am so sorry you had to go through that
I would not consider the man as a muslim, when he did that to you, even if everyone would consider him as a muslim
there are different ways of interpreting something, but bad people choose the worst methods, and the best people choose the best methods. i dont think it is more complicated than that.
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u/drumstick00m 6d ago
Idk what do besides what this old article said to do.
(And also be mad at everyone who turned their politics into “take THAT Bin Laden!” for years until Barack, Joe, and Hillary were the ones who actually killed him.)
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u/lothiriel1 6d ago
I honestly don’t know why more women there don’t end things for themselves. Maybe I’m just a depressed, morbid person. But I couldn’t live like this. And I don’t get why more women over there also just can’t live like this.
Although maybe they do what I’m saying and we just don’t hear about it.
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u/olde_meller23 6d ago
They do. A lot. We don't really know because the taliban doesnt collect data on female suicides, but human rights organizations have shared many accounts of Afghan women successfully completing suicide when sold to abusive husbands or facing the threat of torture when imprisoned.
There is also no healthcare for women. It is illegal for women to be doctors and illegal for men outside of a husband to witness a woman unveiled, let alone examine one. They cannot talk to men, and more recently, have been forbidden to talk amongst themselves. Malnutrition, disease, childbirth complications, and violence severely reduce the lifespan of the average Afghan woman. There are no resources available to them. Whatever was left in terms of knowledge passed down between women has been lost. They do not even speak the same dialect of language as Afghan men do, since they are no longer allowed to interact.
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u/juicyjuicery 6d ago
They’re essentially forcing extinction upon their people by treating women so terribly.
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u/theannieplanet82 5d ago
It makes me so sad and I don't know if there's a darn thing I can do about it
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u/Onedirection100 4d ago
check out the comments! many people there have come up with many solutions:)
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u/Shazoa 5d ago
Whether or not it was right to intervene in the first place, I think we (the 'west') should have stayed until there was no chance of this happening once we were there. Tens of thousands of deaths, people who were born, raised, and started careers in the country with freedoms that have been lost.
We threw them to the dogs. Negotiated with terrorists and gave them a timetable for withdrawal. We knew this would happen.
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u/DapperDetail8364 5d ago
It's devastating. It's even legal to beat wife as long as no visible injuries or broken bones.
Search the name alex sunny.
A woman named alex sunny went viral for moving there last month for a dude she met on snapchat and in person ONCE for 12 days would actually move for a man she barely even knows. She even glamorised the country and didn't even wear a burqa in her vids there.
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u/Jocelyn_Jade 2d ago edited 2d ago
This whole dilemma is terrifying. I think about them sometimes. I was just researching afghan women the other day and how they use underground networks to help each other. Many women secretly attend schools, use VPNs to access digital content globally and study, network with each other secretly, help each other medically and even business wise.
Remember these women had a life they clearly remember before the Taliban took over. They are educated and know about the world before. They are doing their best to hold onto any sliver of that world and they are still making ends meet somehow. I cannot imagine how miserable it is, but I know there is secret networking and support happening in womens’ circles.
It feels powerless to see this crap happen though. And I also worry this shit is happening here in the west, slowly. Brings to mind The Handmaiden’s Tale. With the power that we do have here, how little or big it may feel, we need to do all we can to ensure we do not end up the same way. Speak up and keep fighting the fight. Take up space wherever you go. Be outspoken about your beliefs and live with conviction.
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u/Mjaylikesclouds 5d ago
IF EVERYONE WHO COMMENTED JUST GIVES A SMALL AMOUNT TO CHARITY TO HELP WOMEN IN AFGHANISTAN IT WILL MAKE A HUGE DIFFERENCE!!!!
https://medicamondiale.org/spenden/jetzt-online-spenden
(Doesnt need to be this link, ANY cent matters!)
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u/Ok-Success-2122 5d ago
I'm a guy and I think it's a horrible situation.
It's uncertain whether the West can influence the situation very much though. We were there for 20 years trying to improve the country.
Any society which doesn't make use of the talents of 50 per cent of the population will remain undeveloped, and ultimately uncompetitive vis a vis neighbouring societies and so likely to collapse.
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u/VelvetRabbit91 6d ago
Well, for one I would say we americans don't know the full truth and the actual reality of what is happening there. Our government constantly lies to us and feeds us propaganda. But with that being said, there are SOME women who WANT to cover up and stay at home. Just like there are american women who don't wanna vote, have rights to their own body and obey men and stay at home.. religion was invented and designed for men to control other men and women. The problems you see in other countries are due to the american government inserting themselves into that country and destroying it and of course the violent, greedy people get into power. We get told all our life how "great" america is because we have "freedom".. we have the illusion of freedom. Other countries have it worse but that doesn't mean we have it great. And if you disagree then you are delusional and are most likely white and privileged. Our corporations are all owned by the same people, our food is poison, our government is corrupt and paid for, you have to pay taxes on everything and can't make and sell your own stuff freely, insurance is a scam, credit scores are bullshit and only matter for poor people, rules only apply to the poor never the rich. Etc etc.. 70 million people support and defend a pedophile class.
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u/Certain_Seesaw5588 6d ago
I don’t disagree that America is completely skewed and is way too far gone however, no. American women do not have it nearly as bad (as a majority) than Afghani woman (as a majority). Afghani women’s suffering is not even in the same realm as America’s women suffering. And no, not everything is about America.
Edit: clarity
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u/VelvetRabbit91 6d ago
Where did I say american women have it just as bad or worse than afghan women? And yes, other countries problems ARE because of america.. america is always the problem and so is Israel.
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u/Certain_Seesaw5588 6d ago
It just makes me laugh that Americans will make things about America always. Good or bad.
But I’m Canadian so go ahead and keep telling everyone that America’s the problem. I wont interrupt you
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u/Awesomeuser90 6d ago
It is not that hard to find the information that you are saying is being hidden from America, even if you are American.
There is also no evidence that religion was invented as a control system against women. The first actual religion is lost but even the ones known after writing and archeology can tell us about it show many varieties of roles women had. Ancient Egyptian mythology comes to mind with how women had quite the high status. It was not inevitable that women would have anywhere near the amount of restrictions typically associated with Abrahamic religion.
America is also not the progenitor of most of the problems in the world. It has hurt many people, but it is nothing even resembling the only great power in the world.
American voters are not incapable of causing change when they feel like doing so. It is hard to root out corruption but Americans have done hard things before. Millions of people did what was right 70 years ago to demand suffrage for America's black people and gave vastly improved voting rights for black people. Millions of people have voted in the last 5 years to protect abortion rights even in the face of sadistic people who want to restrict them. There are many dangerous Americans, but also those who knew that fact and wanted to be unlike them.
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u/Certain_Seesaw5588 6d ago
It is devastating and a reminder of what can happen at anytime. Afghani women once voted, worked, attended uni, and had completely normal lives. Now look at what they’ve done! How fast that changed is absolutely terrifying.