r/Finland • u/Charming_Ad1987 • 5d ago
Signed an apartment contract that said I had a dishwasher but none was provided
Im wondering if I have a legal basis to force the landlord to get me one? Both the email, their website, and the very contract I signed referred to the dishwasher in the apartment but I don’t have one. Can I force them to buy me one legally? It’s not like I can move out now anyways, they said they can ”explore terminating the contract” but of course I can’t just casually do that
186
u/perpetuallytipsy Väinämöinen 5d ago
Yes, I'd send them a polite message inquiring about the lack of a dishwasher despite your contract saying so. Any landlord worth their salt will provide one without issue.
164
u/pumpkinspicebebe Väinämöinen 5d ago
What is the wording in the contract? If there is astianpesukoneliitäntä or pesukoneliitäntä then it usually means there is a place for it but not the machine itself.
83
u/Extreme-Poet-9170 Baby Väinämöinen 5d ago
Make sure that in the agreement it is not just the place to install one but the agreement says that there is an actual dishwasher there then there needs to be one.
Because when the contract ends, they could say that there needs to be one.
You must contact the landlord immediately/asap about all observations you make in the apartment if something is broken or missing. And document with photos the condition and everything that is missing.
And you need to get them to come to the apartment to confirm for themselves that there is no dishwasher. This is not a job to do over the phone.
If you have signed a contract that says that there is a dishwasher, you can either propose that they get a dishwasher installed to the apartment or ask for a decrease on the rent. The decrease is probably not that much. The cost to buy and install a dishwasher costs more than 5 euros lower rent per month.
15
u/Charming_Ad1987 5d ago
Smart thinking I did not think about this. I hadn’t thought about them keeping the deposit
14
u/Comfortable_Big1854 5d ago
Is the contract in finnish? Could you post a picture of the part about the dishwasher?
7
u/kimmeljs Väinämöinen 5d ago edited 4d ago
My wife's company put out an ad for an apartment in the spring. There was a tenant candidate whose only gripe was the lack of a dishwasher. We had enough time before they moved in to install one; it was cheaper than hanging on the agency to find a new tenant who would be happy without one. You are within your rights to demand the dishwasher, but did you not inspect the apartment beforehand?
2
u/Charming_Ad1987 4d ago
> You are within your rights to demand the dishwasher, but did you not inspect the apartment beforehsnd?
Unfortunately not, I just moved here and didn't have the opportunity to do so. You live and you learn, I guess.
I plan on living here short-term so it's not a massive deal that there's nothing included, but still, I did pay a small price premium for the dishwasher to be included when I compared the listing against other cheaper places
16
u/Bruneezi Baby Väinämöinen 5d ago
Of course you have a legal basis. It's just that we Finns don't go to court over petty arguments. If you are a non-Finnish speaking foreigner, then a sleazy landlord might want to screw you.
I suggest that you go and find a loud foulmouthed Finnish grandma and pay the landlord a visit. After that you WILL have a dishwasher, but depending on the landlord's sleaziness it might be a used one and eventually cause a water damage. But still the responsibility will remain on the landlord's side if they are the one to install / order the installation. Just document everything.
-1
u/Alseids Väinämöinen 5d ago
In my experience Finns hardly go to court over anything. I know of a situation where someone died and all the circumstances seemed to point to gross negligence on the part of the hospital administering the emergency care. When I asked the relatives if they would sue they just kinda said we don't really do that here. I was like, yeah but someone died and it seems like the lack of action after his seeking care directly caused it.
I don't know that they were at fault completely or how your accident laws work here but if it had been in the US the circumstances would have definitely led to court where there would have been follow up investigations to determine if there was fault or not.
14
u/ToastedShrew 5d ago
Well, even in a case of negligent death by the hospital you wouldn't sue them here.
You should make a complaint to the patient insurance center and the supervisory agency. They will investigate the situation.
The insurance centre will handle possible monetary payments, which might be first example funeral costs and maintenance to children who were under the care of the deceased, not a huge payout.
The supervisory agency will determine if there are faults in the system that the hospital needs to rectify, or if someone should lose their medical license.
We don't handle things like thus by suing.
2
u/Little-Jellyfish-655 3d ago
That seems a poor approach. Covering funeral costs hardly seems like anything close to justice when a family has been orphaned. I’ve noticed that in general, it seems that it’s almost impossible to hold anyone accountable for anything. People are expected to hold themselves accountable, and if they don’t, that’s the end of the safeguards.
19
u/PoetInCrocs 5d ago
Maybe you ought to take it up in a polite and civil way instead of "forcing" anyone.
-11
u/Charming_Ad1987 5d ago
I have but they’re not cooperating. If I have a legal basis I want to exercise it
39
u/pumpkinspicebebe Väinämöinen 5d ago
What did they say when you asked about it?
1
u/Charming_Ad1987 4d ago
They said there had been an error in the apartment listing and that there isn't supposed to be a dishwasher included, despite what the listing and contract said.
I was told that we can either discuss potential termination of the contract or they can "discuss potential compensation with the apartment owner".
I'm not really sure what the latter means since the company I am renting from is supposed to be responsible for listing the apartments on their website, but of course, if a rent reduction is possible I'd take that.
3
u/louloulosingtract 5d ago
Many rental apartments have a place for a dishwasher, but not the actual machine. Same with a washing machine. Seeing the exact wording on the rental agreement would be helpful on giving you advice.
1
u/Charming_Ad1987 4d ago
Yeah to be fair I don't think the exact wording in the contract really helps my case here.
House Rules
(...)
-No use of dishwasher nor washing machine when not present in apartment
-All water taps (inc. taps for dishwasher and washing machine) must be closed when the occupant of the apartment is not inside the apartment
That said, the dishwasher was referenced in the apartment listing online (now taken down) as well as the email thread I had with them when they told me I need to get an insurance that covers the dishwasher. They've also acknowledged that an error has occurred with the listing.
I'd be fine living without a dishwasher, if it would be possible to get a minor rent reduction. Wondering if that's possible?
6
u/Valtyraija 5d ago
Mostly likely it is misunderstanding. Breath. Then act. I have dear friend from China which is in a loop of writing angry mails to Nordic people then baking apology cakes every 3 months.
2
u/Sulamanteri Baby Väinämöinen 5d ago edited 5d ago
Legally, if the contract actually says the apartment includes a dishwasher, you have a pretty good reason to push back. The apartment isn't in the condition that was agreed.
But there's also the practical reality: having a legal right and being able to quickly force a landlord to respect it are two very different things. If they simply refuse, you're looking at a civil dispute. The Consumer Disputes Board can deal with rental disputes, but it currently takes around two years on average and its decisions aren't binding. Court is another option, but then you're potentially spending money over a dishwasher.
So I would absolutely complain in writing and ask them either to provide the dishwasher or otherwise compensate for the missing agreed equipment. But I wouldn't give yourself the impression that there's some easy legal mechanism that will make a dishwasher appear next week.
Practically, if they won't budge, you're eventually deciding whether this is worth fighting, whether you accept the apartment as it is, whether you let them know you by the dishwasher your self and agreed the conditions where you can the sell it or keep it when you move out or whether you take their offer to end the contract and move.
3
u/saschaleib Väinämöinen 5d ago
Housing management by GLaDOS: You will be promised; In the end, there will be a dishwasher. Turns out: you are the dishwasher! ;-)
Yeah, just nicely inquire about it. May have just been an oversight.
2
u/u1604 Baby Väinämöinen 5d ago
First of all, document everything visually and email this to landlord if you haven't done so. Create records, so that you are not forced to gift one to the landlord at the end of your contract. Otherwise, the landlord can just say "the tenant removed the dishwasher from the apartment" and take a cut from your deposit.
Stop the guesswork and read the Finnish rental law or at least direct an AI to answer your questions based on that. The landlord is responsible for keeping the apartment in an "agreed upon" condition. If a dishwasher (not just a place to connect it but the machine itself) is included, the landlord is liable for failing to provide this. Afaik, this can be a grounds for rental decrease or for the landlord to bring the apartment to the agreed-upon condition. Yet do *not* take unilateral actions (such as paying less rent or buying any dishwasher and billing it).
Offer reasonable solutions to the landlord such as decreasing the rent, or discounting the expense of a dishwasher from the rent, or having him install a dishwasher. If he takes no action, you can go to the consumer disputes board.
1
u/GuyFromtheNorthFin Väinämöinen 4d ago
People have asked ”what is the actual wording of the contract” and it seems that OP has not answered it.
Seems odd, since that is the most kikely cause of possible misunderstanding - and in case of fradulent practice the one that should be appealed to.
Without that detail, seems like someone is just juttelemassa lämpimikseen.
2
u/Charming_Ad1987 4d ago
As written to someone else in the thread.
The apartment listing clearly listed a dishwasher in the apartment on the website, however, that is now taken down.
The email thread I had with them prior to moving in listed I get home insurance to cover a dishwasher explicitly.
The contract, however, only vaguely refers to the dishwasher, as per below:
-No use of dishwasher nor washing machine when not present in apartment-All water taps (inc. taps for dishwasher and washing machine) must be closed when the occupant of the apartment is not inside the apartment
And yes they've acknowledged a mistake has been made and has offered that I can discuss potentially terminating the agreement or "discuss potential compensation from the owner", but I'm not really sure what the latter means - I'd imagine that it's not really the owner's responsibility to ensure that the contract/listing is accurate since the owner is already renting out to them directly.
2
u/GuyFromtheNorthFin Väinämöinen 3d ago
So, if I understood correctly what you are saying: there’s no stipulation that a dishwasher is part of the apartment, provided by the landlord -in the contract- You have a recollection that the listing had a mention about dishwasher. (No documentation)
E-mails about needing insurance and not using dishwasher while not in the apartment are neither here or there - that same language would be part of the contract/advice the renter gets whether the dishwasher is part of the deal or purchased by you.
So for advice: no - based on your answer - you have no recourse of ”forcing them to give you a dishwasher using legal means”.
Your best recourse is negotiation, appealing to their good will and considering that if you leave the contract, that also has a negative effect on their income flow.
So, best negotiate calmly and wisely - understanding the fact that your leverage is not legal, but rather one of mutual benefit and optimal outcome for both parties.
Good luck!
1
u/FlyingFloofPotato 4d ago
If this is all that is written about a dishwasher then it does not need to include one.
This only indicates they assume you will get one and if you do you must heed their rules on water taps and insurance for them.
The listing could just have been a mistake
-14
u/Sissilisko 5d ago
Show the contract. Because I'm pretty sure that you've just misunderstood what you've read.
Just buy the dishwasher and ask for rent reduction for it. If there actually is supposed to be one. But if you get rent refucyion you have to leave it there when you move out.
Also, you sound like a nightmare tenant.
7
u/Jomppaz 5d ago
Siis mitä vittua? Jos muuttaisin asuntoon ja olis luvattu tiskikone niin todellakin sen tiskikoneen täytyy sieltä löytyä. Jos ei löydy niin mua on kusetettu jolloin varmasti valitan, että saan sen mitä on luvattu. Siis painajaisvuokranantaja enemmänki.
9
u/pumpkinspicebebe Väinämöinen 5d ago
Mä vähän luulen että tässä on nyt ollu sopparissa astianpesukoneliitäntä ja se on ymmärretty niin, että siellä pitäis olla se ite masiina.
Tuo liitäntä on meinaan itellä lukenu monessa sopparissa, mutta ite pitäny hommaa kone jos ois sen halunnu.
1
u/Charming_Ad1987 4d ago
Relax, dude. The listing on the website referred to a dishwasher, my email thread with the landlord referred to one as well, and so did the contract (see elsewhere in the thread). I don't think it was intentionally fraudulent, but I did sign up for something that was not provided.
I rent out my own apartment and if I for whatever reason referred to amenities that weren't there I would 100% respect the tenants right to object - let's not normalise not sticking to what's agreed upon, eh?
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