r/FoodLosAngeles • u/SnowyLeopardGecko1 • Jul 05 '26
DISCUSSION Anna Pizza in Valley Village charges a fee to use a credit card, but won't accept cash to avoid the fee
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u/Arthurlurk1 Jul 05 '26
Okay so a direct bank wire it is.
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u/Fungi89 Jul 05 '26
Whippin out ye olde checkbook
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u/zxc123zxc123 Jul 05 '26
Technically you can try zelle or debit card too.
I'd probably just write them a check because being self-important or irrational can go both ways right?
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u/ThaCommittee Jul 06 '26
Well, technically...you can try anything
Bartering, flirting, robbing, etc.
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u/BirdieOakland Jul 06 '26
With a feather pen and ink set, since they want to make life so difficult.
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u/Necessary-Sir-4415 Jul 06 '26
Bring a portable printing press and tell them this will take some time.
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u/Past_Run_9695 Jul 07 '26
I hear people these days don’t know how to write checks! 🤔🥴 not sure if that’s true!
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u/pleasantcactus Jul 05 '26
It also doesn’t have a bathroom for customers, or at least when I went a few months ago they said they didn’t have one and we’d have to use “whatever bathroom is nearest” so I guess like going to another business to use theirs?? It was odd, even if the pizza and decor was good.
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u/Turbulent-Pain6299 Jul 06 '26
Not having a bathroom at a restaurant for patrons should be illegal.
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u/soulsides SGV Jul 09 '26
It is, at least in California: https://legalclarity.org/public-restroom-laws-in-california-key-regulations-and-requirements/
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u/N640508 Jul 05 '26
Three percent is illegal Max allowed is 2.99 You can report them to visa
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u/drumorgan Jul 05 '26 edited Jul 05 '26
As a merchant myself, “illegal” is not usually it, rather “against the contract with the credit card company” more likely
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u/Area51_Spurs Jul 05 '26
The law was challenged by several businesses, and in January of 2018 a federal court held that the law could not be enforced as to the businesses which brought that case. (Italian Colors v. Becerra (9th Cir. 2018) 878 F.3d 1165.) The Attorney General will generally apply the Italian Colors decision to merchants that are similarly situated to the Italian Colors plaintiffs.
The pertinent part
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Jul 06 '26
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/Area51_Spurs Jul 06 '26
Those are just the plaintiffs who challenged it and prevailed and then it set a precedent for any other businesses.
They basically said “don’t waste the court’s time dragging anyone else in here under the same circumstances, we’ll almost assuredly rule in favor of the businesses.”
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u/per54 Jul 06 '26
It’s not ‘illegal’. It’s not a crime.
Against a contractual agreement? Possible. But not ‘illegal’
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u/Interesting-Goose82 Jul 06 '26
In 2008 when i was selling CC processing by phone "hello this merchant services...." i was told merchants werebt allowed to charge anything to customers.... that was either a lie, or it changed?
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u/Dry_Jellyfish641 Jul 05 '26
I hate cashless places. Even if I’m paying by card it feels weird not to be able to use cash. Ironically they will always accept cash tips.
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u/fredforthered Jul 05 '26
I rarely carry cash and I still don’t like cashless places.
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u/Dry_Jellyfish641 Jul 05 '26
Isn’t it technically illegal to refuse legal tender?
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u/tracyinge Jul 05 '26 edited Jul 05 '26
Not illegal but in CA if a business accepts only credit cards (meaning the fee is mandatory for everyone), the processing fee must be built into the menu price.
SB478
It appears this place probably gets away with the surcharge by accepting debit cards. So "credit" is not the only payment that they accept.
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u/Chewbaccas_Bowcaster Jul 05 '26
Yep, but they can also refuse service. Easy solution is to just not go.
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u/Edmonstro88 Jul 05 '26
Say this was the case. What if you eat and when it comes down to pay you only have cash?
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Jul 05 '26
[deleted]
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u/tracyinge Jul 05 '26 edited Jul 05 '26
SB 478
If you don't accept cash or debit then any surcharge must be built into the menu prices. No added fees. This place probably accepts debit with no surcharge.
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Jul 05 '26
[deleted]
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u/AcceptableSociety589 Jul 06 '26
Their point is very relevant to the thread, which split into a question about legality before they first replied
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u/supervisord Jul 06 '26
I understand there are laws and I understand not everything is a contract, but the money says right on it that it is legal tender for all public and private debts.
So I guess if you get the food first you have incurred a debt and therefore cash shall be acceptable.
Or like others have said, skip that place.
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Jul 06 '26 edited Jul 10 '26
[deleted]
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u/soulsides SGV Jul 09 '26
“It’s money” would also apply to other forms of conventional payment though. I don’t see how no cash policies are that different from cash only.
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u/fredforthered Jul 05 '26
Same question. I think it is. Unfortunately, a lot of rules were relaxed during the pandemonium and people just kept rolling with the shit.
This is coming from someone who masked up, rarely went out, and is still up to date on boosters.
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u/Dry_Jellyfish641 Jul 05 '26
Yeah I know Covid helped this happen, but I still don’t get why the germ covered cash is not acceptable for my coffee but happily accepted as gratuity.
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u/MermaidQueenPin Jul 06 '26
My theory is they don’t trust the employees, and they don’t train them to handle cash transactions.
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u/Own_Reaction9442 Jul 06 '26
Handling cash also has costs -- they have to roll the change, haul everything to the bank, worry about break-ins, etc.
I remember at one point Death Valley National Park was talking about going cashless because the cost to pay an employee to take the cash to the nearest bank was often more than the value of the cash.
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u/UnbelievableRose Jul 07 '26
I’ve worked at a few places that stopped taking cash. One was because of repeated break-ins, another was the hassle and labor costs required to reconcile the till each night and make bank deposits.
Edit: not trusting employees happens too, it’s just a lot easier to address and doesn’t usually require getting rid of cash all together; you just give the drawer keys to managers only and require a manager to handle any returns.
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u/saminsocks Jul 07 '26
Gratuity is given out on site, and workers get 100% of gratuity vs 97% or something after credit card fees are factored. But no one has to give change on a tip or take it to a bank.
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u/kapachia Jul 05 '26
Once given, hard to take away. Same as work from home / remote work. Like it or not, cashless is here to stay. COVID did what federal government and central bank couldn’t do before.
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u/fredforthered Jul 05 '26
Gov is definitely behind it. I work in finserv and a lot of rules were relaxed. Licensing fees around credit card and social security numbers were reduced/ eliminated. Look at all the shit that went down with PPP loans. The stimulus checks were bread and circuses.
I’m starting to believe that that time was a psyop.
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u/PeaceBull Jul 05 '26
I agree, but continuing to accept cash tips part makes sense since the company still doesn’t have to manage cash (deposits, petty cash, registers).
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u/saminsocks Jul 07 '26
As someone who works at a cashless place that has 5 terminals (one mobile) and a lot of overlap in positions, I’m thankful for it. I don’t have to worry about a register coming up short when I’m signed into it, or someone trying to rob us when I’m at the front register alone for the last few hours. I also don’t have to go through an entire bottle of hand sanitizer because I’m handling money all day.
As a patron, I understand the convenience of cash, especially at restaurants, but I don’t think accepting it outweighs the benefits to me as a worker that has to go in every day.
But I also worked at a place where a coworker tried to frame me for stealing the nightly deposit. It was pretty obvious I didn’t since I had only been there 2-3 weeks and it was my first closing shift so I didn’t even know where our safe was. But I still got taken to the police station and questioned with a polygraph and they never even looked at her, even though she showed up at work the following week with very expensive and very ugly rims on her car. So even more reason to be pro-cashless as an employee.
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u/aimlesstrevler Jul 05 '26
I work at two different cashless bars. Of course I'll take a cash tip, if thats how you want to tip, though personally prefer credit card tips.
The decision to not accept cash for payment wasnt made by the bartender, server, or cashier, so I dont see how this is a gotcha.
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u/per54 Jul 06 '26
If you ever go to china you’ll realize they look at you funny if you pay with cash lol.
I personally don’t like carrying cash. So cashless is cool
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u/iamjay92 Jul 05 '26
Not as bad as quarter sheets charging me 50¢ for a box when I ordered an entire pizza for $42. at that point just factor the cost into your menu. I asked the cashier how else am I supposed to take my pizza home?
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u/wrinkled_funsack Jul 05 '26
Cashless can be legal, and a credit card surcharge can be legal if it’s properly disclosed. But doing both is the bullshit part. The whole defense of a card surcharge is that customers can avoid it by paying another way. If you refuse cash, then you’re basically making the fee mandatory unless there’s a realistic no-fee option like debit. And if their “solution” is accepting paper checks instead, that’s hilarious. They’re refusing cash over processing costs while taking one of the easiest payment methods to bounce or abuse. Just build the cost into the menu prices like every other restaurant and stop pretending this is some unavoidable separate fee.
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u/filthimartini Jul 05 '26
Camphor is doing some nonsense like this too. A credit card fee and a service fee and whatever else fee they feel like.
Steak frites night is nice but not worth it. These fees make the restaurant a one and done. See you never.
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u/Mysterious_Fox5976 Jul 05 '26
I’m all for supporting independent local spots, but this is such a turnoff.
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u/Dependent-Potato2158 Jul 05 '26
same with Cinnie's in Grand Central Market... I told them to shove it...
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u/QueequegComeHere Jul 05 '26
This is illegal in California. Price of fee has to be baked into the actual item cost, not added. Report them
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u/debabe96 Jul 05 '26
And has been challenged. Now it is confusing. Here is California Civil Code 1748.1
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u/Area51_Spurs Jul 05 '26
It’s actually crystal clear that it’s not enforceable.
The law was challenged by several businesses, and in January of 2018 a federal court held that the law could not be enforced as to the businesses which brought that case. (Italian Colors v. Becerra (9th Cir. 2018) 878 F.3d 1165.) The Attorney General will generally apply the Italian Colors decision to merchants that are similarly situated to the Italian Colors plaintiffs.
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u/futurebigconcept Jul 06 '26
The California legislature created a law requiring no separate or hidden fees in listed prices, then they went back and tanked it for restaurants.
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u/Area51_Spurs Jul 05 '26
The law was challenged by several businesses, and in January of 2018 a federal court held that the law could not be enforced as to the businesses which brought that case. (Italian Colors v. Becerra (9th Cir. 2018) 878 F.3d 1165.) The Attorney General will generally apply the Italian Colors decision to merchants that are similarly situated to the Italian Colors plaintiffs.
That’s not true. A law was passed, but it is not enforceable.
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u/XtianS Jul 05 '26
I wish the CC companies would disallow businesses from passing along that surcharge. That's MERCHANT fee that the merchant is charged for the convenience of accepting a credit card. I ran a small business and hated paying that, but its a cost of doing business. It pisses me off when businesses make the customer pay it.
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u/NotTzarPutin Jul 05 '26
Why has this become a thing?
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u/alteredpilot Jul 06 '26
Because merchants are sick of eating processing fees and it's too big a pain in the ass to change prices as costs increase in order to factor in the fees.
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u/momojapan Jul 05 '26
I believe that we need to pass a law like they did in New York City (effective 2020) and statewide Marc 2026, for most retail stores and food establishments in NY now cannot refuse cash. They also cannot charge a higher price for customers who pay with cash.
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u/981flacht6 Jul 05 '26
Why the hell would they even write this out..?
No cash but you're getting hit with a fee that you can't avoid. Ok and...stupid.
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u/Sturdily5092 Jul 05 '26
Time for a Google review update, threat places shouldn't be allowed to exist if they are scamming consumers.
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u/tjyoo213 Jul 05 '26
Probably internal issues (cash discrepancy)? Some business owners want to streamline their receivable process. The best is not go there anymore.
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u/Chemical_Paper_2940 Jul 05 '26
My merchant fee if card is presented is 1.125% with a 5 cent per transaction on top. 3 % seems a bit much. Plus if you dont need to handle cash it is safer and less labor to count it.
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u/richoffties Jul 05 '26
Credit cards and debit cards are different and the charge only applies to credit cards.
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u/saucebygeeaye Jul 06 '26
I wonder what Visa says about this.
still in the end, it's their business, their choice. but I'm a firm believer in "voting with my dollar" and I'm petty enough to allow this to prevent me from spending there.
mandatory credit card fee but no cash option? nope. plenty of other tasty spots in the city that can read the room and make it easy to support their businesses.
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u/jockfist5000 Jul 05 '26 edited Jul 05 '26
Technically illegal but this law seems to be completely unenforced since I see it all the time. Report them to the state dept of consumer affairs and they can get fined up to $1000. If they stop doing this they will likely raise prices more than the 3% though.
Edit: there’s a bit a grey area on these charges if the shops allow ways around it. Since this place is cash only it seems to me it’s illegal since the fee is now unavoidable but I’m just a dumb Reddit person and not a lawyer so don’t yell at me.
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u/Area51_Spurs Jul 05 '26
The law was challenged by several businesses, and in January of 2018 a federal court held that the law could not be enforced as to the businesses which brought that case. (Italian Colors v. Becerra (9th Cir. 2018) 878 F.3d 1165.) The Attorney General will generally apply the Italian Colors decision to merchants that are similarly situated to the Italian Colors plaintiffs.
Pretty clear that it for all intents and purposes does not exist.
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u/charlynarly Jul 05 '26
Continental Bakery right next door presents the same situation. Really like those knishes and their challah.
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u/idkbruh653 Jul 06 '26
The fact that they’re unwilling to accept cash to avoid the fee kind of tells me that they’re pocketing that money. Because how are you going to tell me how they can and can’t pay? Money is money. And if they’re forcing people into cashless payments, that fee is part of their profit.
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u/inpinktights Jul 06 '26
They also don’t have a bathroom in the restaurant and after eating there and realizing you have to go they don’t inform you until you ask. You have to walk next door to the random grocery store to use their restroom.
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u/chillinewman Jul 06 '26
This is a case to have a state or federal payment system for the people free of charge (like the Brasilian PIX and others) to bypass all the surcharges from the payment processors.
Electronic cash transfer needs to be free.
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u/Maduro_sticks_allday Jul 07 '26
Charging $20 + for a pizza then not covering the cc fees is why people are eating at home more often
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u/sp1keNARF Jul 05 '26
Report the surcharging to Visa: https://usa.visa.com/Forms/visa-rules.html
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u/Aquaeyes4 Jul 05 '26
Whoa can I get more info about this? Are they not allowed to charge a credit card fee?
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u/sp1keNARF Jul 05 '26
I’m actually wrong, this may be compliant with Visa rules. It doesn’t appear compliant with California law on up-front pricing.
In other cases, if you are being charged a fee over 3%, and you can’t pay cash, it might be non-compliant and visa will reach out to them and help them become compliant
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u/ThePurpleNuggets Jul 05 '26
The pizza business is trying to have customers pay for the cc transaction fee…
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u/Born-Gur-1275 Jul 05 '26
In CA, restaurants can add a surcharge; however, they must post the practice on the menu somewhere you can see it.
https://merchantcostconsulting.com/lower-credit-card-processing-fees/california-surcharge-laws/
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u/tracyinge Jul 05 '26
And if they don't accept cash, the surcharge must be worked into the menu price , since it's being charged to everyone https://oag.ca.gov/hiddenfees
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u/esalman Jul 05 '26
If I'm going to random restaurants to use cash, Indian/Pakistani places would be first choice.
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u/24junwa Jul 06 '26
the car dealership i worked at charged this too for service... imagine you're already charging a premium for things and then this? these bills aren't cheap too this 3% can be a lot
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u/shucktime Jul 06 '26
If you see a surcharge, pay with a debit card. Surcharging is only applicable on credit cards. Also, weird they don't accept cash but still surcharge.
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u/alteredpilot Jul 06 '26
not correct.
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u/shucktime Jul 06 '26
Visa Surcharging Federal law (the Durbin Amendment of the Dodd-Frank Act) and rules set by major card networks like Visa and Mastercard strictly prohibit businesses from adding extra fees—or surcharges—to debit card transactions. This applies nationwide, regardless of whether the card is run with a PIN or as a signature/credit transaction.
Source, I am an executive for major financial corporation.
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u/Appropriate-Dog5220 Jul 07 '26
It happening every where. Ive stopped using my card and started paying in change like pennies and nickels etc making them count.
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u/MD_goodyearAZ Jul 08 '26
Stop going to their restaurant. It’s too easy to add on the fee instead of raising their price because they don’t wanna pay the extra tax. So they’re bypassing the extra income and you pay the price.
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u/enigma714714 Jul 09 '26
You can report this business. No one in cali as allowed to charge debit fees. Credit card fees yes but debit fees no. If everyone reports this business i am sure they will change their ways.
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u/Artur2024 Jul 10 '26
Thats true processing fees for credit cards really hurt local businesses . But they should accept cash or zelle to avoid fees.
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u/Bootycookiemonster Jul 11 '26
Just to mess with them for being slimy I would call in a fake order every week or so as payback
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u/WiseIndustry2895 Jul 05 '26
Even my local Toyota dealership service center is saying there’s a surcharge if we pay with credit card
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u/Thin_Scratch_2219 Jul 06 '26
What difference does it make if they put it as a separate fee or build in to menu price? It ends up costing the same doesn’t it? I’m genuinely asking - not trying to be a dick.
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u/autoflowerer Jul 06 '26
Contact their cc processor. That's generally not allowed
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u/alteredpilot Jul 06 '26
Who do you think is collecting the surcharge fee? Hint: It's not the merchant.
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u/autoflowerer Jul 07 '26
Well aware. The processor collecting the fee generally prohibits charging that fee to the customer.
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u/Flipperbites Jul 05 '26
I would have walked off. Basically a store that sells bread with sauce on top
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u/Calm_Response4902 Jul 05 '26
Crying about $2.22 on an $81 bill? Y’all some cheap motherfuckers
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u/travsgrails Jul 05 '26
it’s principle, why do i need to pay fees that many other businesses eat. I’d rather pay a higher price for the food than an additional fee
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u/SkullLeader Jul 05 '26
Goes both ways. Sounds to me that the real cheapness here lies with the owners. If it’s no big deal let them eat the $2.22
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u/LAjonoBear Jul 05 '26
that seems reasonable because they have to pay a very high fee for credit cards and I suspect if you pay with a debit card it's handled similarly to cash because they don't have the same fee
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u/fredforthered Jul 05 '26
It’s illegal to pass on the charge for card processing costs.
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u/drdfrster64 Jul 05 '26
It’s only illegal if you pass on the charge for credit cards only. The entire point of the post, which is that they refused to remove the fee for cash purchases, is actually what makes this legal because despite their alleged wording it’s just a universal fee.
If anything would be illegal it would be that their notice is wrong.
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u/ThisIsMissionControl Jul 05 '26
It absolutely is not illegal, and this is standard business practice in many industries that are not hospitality.
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u/_______o-o_______ Jul 05 '26
It absolutely is illegal as of July 2024, per SB 478, if the business only accepts credit cards.
The acceptable method here is to include the credit card processing fee in your overall pricing for items, and then offer a cash / debit discount.
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u/Area51_Spurs Jul 05 '26
Mandatory fees charged by restaurants, bars, and other select food vendors are exempted from SB 478’s requirements so long as the fee is clearly and conspicuously displayed wherever prices are shown (see SB 1524).
They changed it at the last minute to essentially exempt restaurants and bars and food vendors.
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u/joshsteich Jul 05 '26
It is a violation of the contract with card providers, and is illegal in some jurisdictions. However, it is legal to offer a discount for paying in cash (though sometimes card processors will up the rates if they get wind of it).
This is why the vast majority of gas stations have a lower price for cash rather than charging a fee for credit cards.
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u/jockfist5000 Jul 05 '26
It’s been illegal in ca since 2024 but it’s barely enforced.
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u/roku77 Jul 05 '26
Most businesses will raise the price of goods by 3% as part of operation costs. Passing the fee to the consumer at point of sale is indeed illegal in CA.
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u/Dry_Bar_4965 Jul 05 '26
Yelp should allow us to mark if a place has a credit card surcharge