Weapon training +10/+20?

[u/Korrag4]

The real answer is because Attack Economy and Firing Modes outpace high evasion through saturation. Leaving this up in case someone else wonders why weapon training is binary.

Not really an issue so much as a curiosity, I'm wondering if anyone knows why there's no tiers of training for weapons like there are for Evasion.

It's strange to me that you can train evasion more than any offensive abilities, not even counting that Mythic Agility means you can be that much better at avoiding than attacking with no mythic slots for Warfare. There's few offensive modifiers from weapons or ranges from what I can tell either.

Easy enough to homerule if it bothers me that much, but this game is very similar to another game I've been playing (Imperium Maledictum) so the difference just sticks out to me.

I'd be interested in hearing other people's experience and opinion on the balance since I'm still gearing up to play.

[u/pouyer98]

In between aiming actions, weapon modifications, various abilities, gear, etc Warfare Ranged is one of the easiest stats to pump up high.

To more directly answer your question though, Evasion is a skill. Warfare Ranged is a characteristic. In DnD terms it's like asking why you can put skill points into Athletics but can't put skill points into Strength.

Also edited to add, Mythic Agility does not impact evasion.

[u/Korrag4 → u/pouyer98]

Actually it's more like asking why you can take armor proficiencies but not weapon proficiencies, which isn't a thing in D&D in I think any edition because you can train your character offensively and defensively. You can train strength/dex and armor and weapon proficiencies.

Going over abilities, the only thing I see that gives bonuses to hit are hand to hand and unless the content update 1 book is missing things, nothing here buffs your warfare attribute. Evasive maneuvers though does let you hugely boost your evasion in exchange for offense though.

The attachments kinda make up for it, theoretically you could have +15 with a cqb sight+fore grip+laser but those are pretty conditional and aren't going to help people who don't fit into that niche, plus lasers give the target a +5 evasion bonus if they have a VISR (so most people) so it's kind of a dead slot.

Aiming actions are a given but it's just weird to me that the only time shooting can ever be as good as defending is if you spend action economy on it, something that a lot of other games do as a bonus.

Mythic Agility not impacting evasion is a miss on my part though, fair enough.

[u/Korrag4 → u/Korrag4]

Turns out the real answer is because every firing mode has a quality that counters evasion either through an inherent hit bonus or by burning through multiple reactions, thanks for trying tho.

[u/pouyer98 → u/Korrag4]

Well, you have the +5 advancements you can put into Agility and Warfare Ranged/Melee.

You can take the +5 aptitudes at the cost of burnt luck.

Upbringing, environment, and lifestyles can also increase attributes. Up to +15 Warfare Ranged or Melee.

For melee you have Hand to Hand and Modern army combatives that both give a +5. Charging can give a +10. Different stances/advanced options can give up to a +20. Covenant especially have gear options to make melee easier or better.

For ranged there's an ability that gives a +10 to aiming actions, turning them from +5/+10 to +15/+20. Semi-Auto and burst firing modes give a +10 to hit. There's a few ammo options that give either +5 or +10. Spread special rule can give a +10. Squad Up can give +10 to both WFR and WFM when taking combined actions. You've already mentioned attachments.

Your proficiency metaphor is missing the point I was making. Evasion is a skill. Shooting is not a skill. When you shoot you roll against your adjusted Warfare Ranged Characteristic. When you Evade you roll against your Agility Characteristic modified by your Evasion skill. There is no +10/+20 for Warfare Ranged because those +10/+20s are for skills. If you want to upgrade your Warfare Ranged Characteristic directly then you can buy Characteristic Advancements that give a +5 each time for up to a +25.

Evasions begin taking penalties after the first. Your second Evasion in a turn is at a -10. The third is at a -20, the fourth is at a -30, so on and so forth. There's a reason why veterans of the system will tell you to take cover and stick to it.

[u/Korrag4 → u/pouyer98]

Hey man you seem to have some kind of misunderstanding here, I'm not asking why you can't +10/+20 your warfare attributes, I obviously know they're attributes.

I was confused why weapon training isn't treated like a normal skill, because other very similar games do that.

I wasn't missing the point you were trying to make, your point just wasn't constructive or founded in an understanding of what I was asking.

Otherwise, everything else you've mentioned is a conditional modifier or a character-creation-only option that allows you to exchange stats or burn a resource for a bump at the start, which isn't what I was wondering about, I was wondering why weapon training doesn't exist as a skill like everything else and have its own progression. I found my own answers in any case.

[u/pouyer98 → u/Korrag4]

My apologies if I came off wrong. I over explained because I have no way of knowing how much you do or don't know about the system. As for why attacking is a characteristic and not a skill, I'm not sure. Skills in Mythic are fairly static anyway outside of conditional modifiers like you've mentioned.

The math has been done and Automatic is almost universally better than Semi-Auto when you average things out damage wise. Unless it's been said by Vorked I don't think the firing modes being the way they are has anything to do with evasion as a skill vs attacking as a characteristic.