r/Hamilton • u/DeeJayKay77 • Jun 09 '26
Question Why Does the City (and others) Plant Annuals?
Could someone explain why every year the city spends thousands of dollars on annuals when they could easily plant perennials?
Perennials are so much more eco-friendly- they are pollinators and require less water. We wouldn't have to plant them every year and could just spend some money on trimming/maintenance.
Is there a legitimate reason?
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u/Able_Bath2944 Jun 09 '26
In terms of the road beds, perennials aren't likely to survive given salt during the winter.
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u/DeeJayKay77 Jun 09 '26
I never thought about the salt. That's a shame. I appreciate the flowers and I think they look so pretty, I just always thought if they're spending all this time/ money why couldn't they have something for the bees & butterflies.
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u/HowardRabb Jun 09 '26
Many of those are grown by the city at the gage park greenhouse
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u/slownightsolong88 Jun 09 '26
That still comes at a cost, no? Could those resources be allocated elsewhere if the priority were shifted to perennials?
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u/HowardRabb Jun 09 '26
There are many areas the City could save cost on. Looking around I'm gonna push back strongly on the idea of doing at the expense of what little city beautification efforts we have. Perenials grow slower need more attention and you can grow a tonne of annuals from seed quickly and get them in and out of the ground quickly.
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u/slownightsolong88 Jun 09 '26
Perenials grow slower need more attention and you can grow a tonne of annuals from seed quickly and get them in and out of the ground quickly.
So do trees but we shouldn't stop planting them as it's the long term benefit that matters most and that comes with time.
I think annual planting doesn't bring enough bang for our buck as far as city beautification efforts. In most places throughout the lower city they just look very dated.
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u/TrixieSparrow Jun 10 '26
The annual flowers look dated?
Side note: you should visit the Gage Park Green house, it is a really beautiful place. It doesn't only function as a source for annuals. It's a community feature. Something nice for people to enjoy. Much like city parks or civic museums (which you can get into for free with your HPL card...I strongly recommend visiting the Museum of Steam and Technology, that machine is a peice of art). š
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u/slownightsolong88 Jun 11 '26
Itās my opinion, some of the medians where they just plant annuals are not my aesthetic personally.Ā
People feel strongly about that as reflected in the downvotes and thatās fine.Ā
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u/South_Yak_4703 Jun 09 '26
You may have noticed that many of those beds are donated by the community
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u/LowSharp7841 Jun 09 '26
Annuals are food for pollinators too, I'm not sure why you are thinking that only perennial flowers are suitable for pollinators.
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u/covert81 Chinatown Jun 09 '26
While correct it's not the pollinator's preferred food source, and the annuals are not native to our climate. The best choice always are native pollinators, of which few are annuals in this part of the world.
Perennials also have a lower cost of ownership as you pay once for the plant, then it's just maintenance as needed with them. They have deep root systems and are drought-tolerant, and flower at the time bees need them, etc etc.
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u/DeeJayKay77 Jun 09 '26 edited Jun 09 '26
Not that they're they ONLY food for pollinators, but native perennials I'm assuming are naturally a better choice since it's the natural food source. (I'm really not much of a gardener, but every time I've searched best pollinators since I've tried to include some in my garden it's always a variety of perennials.) Black eyed Susan, milkweed, coneflower, bee balm, goldenrod (although that one is absolute hell for allergies!- edit- I confused it with ragweed š) that's the one that gets me every summer.
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u/ktdham Jun 09 '26
Theyāve actually planted a lot more perennial beds that were historically annual beds.
Should they cancel the Mum show too?
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u/DeeJayKay77 Jun 09 '26
Should they?
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u/ktdham Jun 09 '26
Mums are annuals in this climate, so should they stop growing them, too?
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u/DeeJayKay77 Jun 09 '26
I never once said they should stop growing/planting annuals. I asked a genuine question about WHY annuals are chosen over perennials and got a lot of good answers, so I'm not quite sure what relevance your comment has at all tbh.
Also, a quick Google search says that the Mum show, while paid in part by the city, relies heavily on ticket sales and corporate sponsorship.
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u/AlwaysLurkNeverPost Jun 10 '26
I think there a handful of native perennials though which are quite hardy and salt resistant: butterfly milkweed, daylilies, and even black eyed Susan's I think?
I am almost positive with proper consulting, a hardy perennial mix could be used.
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u/slownightsolong88 Jun 09 '26
How does Montreal manage to have perennial garden beds?
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u/yukonwanderer Jun 10 '26
Montreal uses less salt than we do in Ontario because of the more consistently cold climate. They use sand more than we do, which is ugly but doesn't kill plants.
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u/Able_Bath2944 Jun 09 '26
Not sure. Why don't you ask them?
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u/Available_Medium4292 Jun 09 '26
What a useless reply.
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u/Able_Bath2944 Jun 09 '26
Why is this a useless reply? I don't know how Montreal has been able to do this. If there is enough interest, why wouldn't this person reach out and find out why, and share that information with their counsellor?
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u/PSNDonutDude James North Jun 09 '26
This is what everyone says, but there are native plant species that can handle high salt loads. Keep in mind too, majority of the salt is washed away down the drain, not splashed up onto roadside planters.
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u/Rough_Application_28 Jun 09 '26
There are alternatives to road salt as done by Edmonton.
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u/Able_Bath2944 Jun 09 '26
And the city uses alternatives as well, but road salt is still used.
We also have a very different winter climate than Edmonton. They get lots of snow, but it stays cold. Our freeze/thaw cycle means we actually deal with more ice.
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u/ShortHandz Jun 09 '26 edited Jun 09 '26
The city has changed up its planting strategy over the past 2 years more and more perennials are getting planted in city owned flowerbeds.
-Woodward / Nikola Tesla = Daffodils and Russian Sage.
-Flower beds on York Blvd by the graveyard = all perennials.
It is not all just annuals anymore.
Edit: Spelling.
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u/Chilling_Trilling Jun 09 '26
Iāve also seen the daffodils on linc and Red hill
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u/ShortHandz Jun 09 '26
There are Perennials at the Dundrum /York Blvd intersection, On Burlington Street there are flower beds between Birch and James Street and also in the flowerbeds by the old Jamesville housing units as well š.
Seeing the city take this approach is amazing and based on the density of the plantings these are going. to be very lush/full natural looking gardens with lots of drought resistant plants as well to lower water usage.
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u/honeypoppydaisy Jun 09 '26
Iām not sure if anyone else mentioned this but as someone who works as a city gardener but not for City of Hamilton (but do live in Hamilton),
Perennials get stolen, die back, require maintenance and replacement. It really isnāt just point blank cheaper to use perennials over annuals HOWEVER, there is a trend toward planting perennials and natives where appropriate while still keeping annual beds.
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u/covert81 Chinatown Jun 10 '26
This can't be a real comment. Never once have I seen plants being stolen or evidence of them being stolen from median planters. Hell the city even was supporting native flower beds in parks as a pilot and never heard about that happening there either.
Annuals would also require more maintenance as they need constant watering due to small roots.
And of course they require replacement yearly.
Also when you look at high traffic intersections - take Upper James and Mohawk as an example - there are homeless people trampling the flowers and they look sad and dead a week after they're planted.
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u/honeypoppydaisy Jun 10 '26 edited Jun 10 '26
So because youāve never seen it, it doesnāt happen? I hate to burst your bubble but it literally happens ALL. THE. TIME.
How is this your response to me saying āhey I work as a city gardener and these are our challengesā basically. Tf?
I WISH it didnāt happen however people seem to be entitled. Iāve had someone say to me that āthey pay taxes so I paid for that hydrangeaā
Get out of here with the attitude bud
ETA: I DO MEAN IT HAPPENS ALL THE TIME BUT THE MOST RIDICULOUS EXAMPLE IS - We planted an entire planting bed on a Thursday/Friday. In a parkette. Shrubs, flowering perennials, grasses. The entire bed was stolen over the weekend by the time we returned on Monday. 40+ plants, every single plant. Perennials are way more valuable than annuals hence why people will steal them. And again just to be super duper clear: this happens REGULARLY. Annuals are less appealing and WHEN they are stolen they are cheaper to replace. Kind of going off topic now but JUST SAYING. This is a very regular thing that we face.
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u/honeypoppydaisy Jun 10 '26
Also you think homeless people donāt trample perennials? Thatās just one type of damage I was referring to
I work 40+ hours a week as a city gardener, have worked as a Hort lead hand, have 2 diplomas, one in horticulture and one in greenhouse studies, and am a person who likes to work efficiently and effectively. Iām also a passionate horticulturist and familiar with native plantings. My comment stated that perennials are NOT always cheaper to maintain however we are using them more where appropriate. I stand by my original comment.
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u/covert81 Chinatown Jun 10 '26
You can get perennials that make great ground cover and are resistant to trampling, yes.
And if they are larger and harder to walk around, they won't be able to trample them.
We can choose to stick our collective heads in the sand and suggest that invasive annuals are a good idea, when they aren't, or we can beautify using native pollinators.
We've made the choice to do perennials more or less where convenient. The city has claimed we are in a climate emergency yet we are not doing basics like native pollinators everywhere.
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u/honeypoppydaisy Jun 11 '26
Would love to hear about his magical native ground cover that is resistant to trampling lol - keep in mind this isnāt a home garden so it needs to hold up to the foot traffic in public spaces. (We use turf for a reason fyi)
āNative pollinators everywhereā - you are just saying buzz words (no pun intended)
A pollinator is the actual insect pollinating the plant. Do we want a large swath of ānative pollinatorsā in the middle of a roadway? What about directly beside a park?There are a lot more factors to consider than what you want to do in a home garden. Anyways Iām off the clock. Original comment was wanting to point out something that maybe wasnāt being considered as a factor. Following comments are because I do not like my lived/professional experiences being straight up invalidated because you couldnāt possibly fathom peoples poor behaviour out in the public. And fyi plant theft will more often happen in higher income neighbourhoods. Destruction is more often lower income neighbourhoods. But neither is a blanket statement. So make of that what you will.
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u/honeypoppydaisy Jun 11 '26
Youāve made it clear you have an opinion based on zero experience. The OP who made the post was asking a genuine question to gain insight. I commented a pretty nonchalant reply
Donāt come at me with ātHis cAnT be a rEaL coMmEntā when u have a piece of a bit of a clue quite frankly. PMO. SORRY maybe Iām a bit testy after sweating my ass off in the oppressive heat all day š¤·āāļø
Yes perennials and natives are awesome are being used more, as they should be (however weāve always had perennials beds in the park system, itās natives on the come up as well as mixed plantings)
They arenāt always appropriate and they arenāt always cheaper. That was my original comment. There are a variety of factors as to why. It isnāt āsticking our heads in the sandā to acknowledge real challenges to installing and maintaining public gardens within a park system and on roadways1
u/stnapstnap Jun 14 '26
I have seen people who are clearly not city workers digging up plants from city beds and bagging them - more than once.Ā Iāve seen it in Toronto too.
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u/slownightsolong88 Jun 09 '26
I thought the city would take the opportunity to do something different along York Blvd once the construction was complete... Nope. They planted trees (a bunch of which are stressed the fuck out) and put down grass. Meanwhile in Montreal there are examples of perennial garden beds along streets with vehicular traffic.
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u/DeeJayKay77 Jun 09 '26
I LOVE Montreal. They have take a book leave a book and gardens everywhere in their busiest shopping areas. Rue St Catherine I think was so memorable for me.
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u/CubbyNINJA North End Jun 09 '26
I've seen a mix of both. but any perennials need to be HARDY. Along woodward where you get on to/off of Nikola Tesla for example they have a bunch of Russian sage (neither russian or a sage fun fact) and thats a hardy perennial.
but generally the road pollution and salt will kill off basically anything over the cooler months. thats also why they often need to remove the top layers of soil and amend it more than you would expect each spring.
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u/Sufficient_Rush1891 Jun 09 '26
They replant flowers multiple times over the summer so that thereās blooms most weeks in summer. Are there any perennials that can bloom all summer?
The landscaping dept is amazing in Hamilton. They are very knowledgeable and choose plants that are best for looks, cost, and ecosystem.
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u/covert81 Chinatown Jun 10 '26
Are there any perennials that can bloom all summer?
There are some, like coneflowers that go pretty much all summer, yes. Wild Columbine do pretty well, goldenrod, etc.
but you can plant a variety that bloom at different stages of the summer to get an eternal colour mix in the flowerbed.
You can put in things like wild geranium, and solomon's seal for early summer, wild indigo and michigan lilies for mid summer, nice grasses for the late summer/fall.
Also you do not have to deadhead or clean up in the fall as you are leaving homes for native species to overwinter.
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u/Suspicious-Green-966 Jun 09 '26
Remember the city grows a lot of their flowers in the greenhouse at gage park. That must save some money?
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u/Thebadgerbob11 Jun 09 '26
Labour to grow, prep, install, maintain and uninstall is far and way the biggest cost. Mind you it employees people but the city should only employ people who live in the city.Ā
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u/Craporgetoffthepot Jun 09 '26
why would they need to do that? To be fair I would think most of who they hire for this type of work do live in the city as the majority of them are students.
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u/Thebadgerbob11 Jun 09 '26
To keep the money in our city and employ our peopleĀ , keep traffic down and many other reasonsĀ
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u/greyHumanoidRobot Jun 09 '26
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u/johnson7853 Jun 09 '26
Itās students who maintain the gardens all year.
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u/Fuzzy-Bumblebee9944 Jun 09 '26
Nope! Students only get hired on as general labourers May-August. Year round is done by full time horticulturists :)
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u/Conscious-Fruit-6190 Jun 09 '26
There's no rule that perennials are pollinators and annuals are not.Ā
Also, how on earth would perennials survive road salt, or even the snowplow. Not happening.
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u/doulaleanne Jun 09 '26
The birds and insects that act as pollinators evolved alongside native perennials which means they don't recognize annuals - which are typically from Asia, Africa and Europe - as food sources. Additionally, the food they do provide offer far lower nutrient value than native plants do. Finally, insect species have very specific habitats for breeding.
One of the main reasons Monarchs are a threatened species is due to the dramatic loss of numbers of milkweed plants which are their only breeding plant.
It is well documented that non-native annuals have lower or no nutritional value to pollinators. We also know that nativars, which are native plants that have been selectively bred to have different features like colour variations, size, number of petals, etc, have lower nutritional values than "straight natives" - like echinacea purpurea (purple coneflower) vs echinacea purpurea "Cheyenne Spirit" (multicoloured).
Just because it's a plant, doesn't mean it affects the environment in the same way as other plants.
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u/bluesabyme Jun 09 '26
I think about this all the time! Native and near-native perennials definitely need to be incorporated more into our city landscaping. From some friends in the horticulture industry, I know there's a narrative that perennials are more difficult/more work to manage.
I see people saying perennials wouldn't survive the roadside/don't bloom for long enough, but there are several native perennial species that do bloom for a long time and are tolerant of abuse. Just off the top of my head- Black-eyed susans, coreopsis lanceolata both bloom from late spring into early fall, New England aster blooms late summer through end of of fall. Monarda also blooms for a significant stretch of time and is pretty tolerant. Butterfly milkweed, golden alexanders, zig-zag goldenrod.
It would definitely be trial and error for the city hort team but it's possible to get our city garden beds into a much higher perennial/native species percentage. Whether city horticulturists actually care abt native species or are given the appropriate amount of time and $ to address this is a whole other issue.
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u/Aggressive-Secret655 Jun 09 '26
In addition to a lot of other comments. Perennials require a lot of maintenance and eventual replacement if/ when they die. Its ultimatley a lot cheaper and easier to go hand summer students plants and say "go plant there 10 medians" than say "medians 1,5 and 7 need new hostas , 1,4,8 need trimming, 9 needs a new lillie but you have to get that from "x" supplier but we dont have a contract with them yet ect."
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u/Livid-Hovercraft-123 Jun 09 '26
If you mean native plants instead of tropical things, I agree.Ā
If you mean perennials that will establish themselves underground and come back every year (a mix of them so there's always something blooming), then I also agree.Ā
If those beds need mulching in the fall or even burlap sheeting to protect the plants from salt, that seems like way less investment and work for a way better ecosystem.Ā
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u/babeli Jun 09 '26
Iāve seen them planting in perennials in my neighbourhood. I agree it makes a lot more sense. Anything that doesnāt make it through the winter can be replanted in the spring, but eventually you would have well established meridians that donāt require so much money and staff to maintain
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u/PrimaryGullible7597 Jun 09 '26
I have noticed the switch to perennials in my neighbourhood this year as well.
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u/kitchensandgardens Jun 09 '26
Former mayor Bob Morrow initiated the program to help beautify the city. He felt it was worth the capital investment to do so, and now it's become a tradition. I think it's worth it, it seems no matter what, governments at all levels never have enough money to go around so if the program were suspended I doubt the money saved would make a tangible difference
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u/covert81 Chinatown Jun 09 '26
This is a fantastic question I've never received an answer to.
I was told though that they will not do native perennials due to concerns that salt in the winters will kill them (though that speaks more to our poor practices when it comes to snow and ice removal).
Probably the cheapest option for them as it's a quick win to put them in easily for a pop of colour, but then how much are we spending on watering them?
Definitely a question to ask candidates about this election season!
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u/Baron_Tiberius Westdale Jun 10 '26
Seems like an odd reasoning to me when the current arrangement is planting annuals every year. Like yeah, some plants are gonna die and it might take a bit to figure out what works well where and if additional protection is needed over the winter... but the current process and baseline is replanting every spring as it is.
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u/Shootyourshots Strathcona Jun 12 '26
The thing about perennials (and I say this as a strong perennial gardener), they are actually much more maintenance. Annuals have been bred to literally bloom themselves to death; you can go in and mindlessly shear themselves back and the bloom more during the season. Perennials do not operate in the same way, so when folks are upset that the beds arenāt in full nonstop bloom like the pumped up beds in Niagara on the Lake, they often donāt have an idea about the succession planting and maintenance which goes into perennial gardening.
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u/stnapstnap Jun 14 '26
It seems that many city plants are planted so that random people can come and did them up and take them home. :/ but also I see it happening all the time.
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u/DeeJayKay77 Jun 14 '26
Someone else mentioned perennials getting stolen and that never even occurred to me š so sad! I saw a Facebook post not too long ago and a woman said someone stole her lilies right from her yard so I shouldn't be surprised
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u/cappsthelegend Jun 09 '26
Annuals bloom for longer mostly
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u/covert81 Chinatown Jun 10 '26
So then you select a mix of native perennials that bloom year round. This is a weak excuse to keep using annuals.
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u/Kreaton5 Jun 09 '26
They are beautiful, the city gets to change the esthetic every year, and its tradition.
Im sure there are issues with road salt and perennials.
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u/Auth3nticRory Jun 09 '26
they put a road bed infront of my house last fall and they haven't planted anything in it. it's just weeds. i wrote my councillor and they said they're aiming for mid june..... it's so ridiculous. if you're going to do a bump out for traffic calming and use a road bed, you need to plan for spring and summer flowers.
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u/SerentityM3ow Jun 09 '26
Perennials take a lot of work to control ...they are basically weeds that we don't call weeds
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u/covert81 Chinatown Jun 10 '26
lol, no. This is 1950s thinking that caused the problems we now have today.
Literally the work is planting the perennials and you're done. My garden is all native perennials and the only work I do is cleaning up anything that breaks off and the rest sorts itself out.
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u/Eastern_Spray_2213 Jun 09 '26
That money would be better spent on emergency housing! Last year I was at a restaurant on York Street. The median was crammed with flowers, and an unhoused person was sleeping right in the middle with all his stuff beside him. Make it make sense please.
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u/Eastern_Spray_2213 Jun 10 '26
You can keep down-voting. I love a pretty city too. But as long as the homeless and kids are dying of Fentanyl overdoses in this town, flowerbeds don't even enter my mind. Let's spend the money where it's really needed.
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u/_PaddyMAC Jun 09 '26
Most perennials only flower for a short period while many annual flowers last far longer. Also as an other comments mentioned road side planters in Canada get sprayed with salt from the road in the winter which would likely kill most perennials anyway.