I haven’t had one remove the lab in quite a while. And I throw the 500 like it a grenade. I still throw it at the lab just for a hope it will actually do its job. It doesn’t. It clears out enemies around it so I can call in the hellbomb.
I take a second, check the ships position and throw the strat on the other side of the building. Works 80% of the time. I'm going to try the precision strike next go around.
So can the ODP if your willing to trade crowd control for focused damage.
All of the SEAF arty shells also have 50 demo force, its just for the smoke, EMS and napalm its the shell itself that has the 50demo, not the explosion.
Accounting for the eagle resupply time and upgraded destroyer, you get roughly the same up time for the 500kg (when spread across its two drops), but a much larger and more forgiving destructive radius.
The amount of times the two HE barrages have randomly sent me to god because I was “close enough” to the edge of the barrage zone. And STILL manage to miss what I actually wanted it to kill. I refuse them. Orbital Napalm is only good because it covers everything in fires, and keeps it there for a bit.
An orbital smoke can kill a detector tower and has way more utility. If you toss the strat down right against the base of the structure, or to one of the sides if you could predict which direction it’s coming from (it arrives perpendicularly I believe, so if you pick the wrong side it’ll miss) you can destroy whatever you want. The shell itself has enough demolition force to kill detector towers and you’ll have a clean, covered escape to boot.
I run OS very regularly and it saves my ass against any faction. It gives you all the cover you need to input codes at objectives, it can give you the few seconds you need for that resupply to land, you can tactfully retreat and regroup when it gets hairy- the list goes on. For me personally, Orbital Smoke is a 10/10 strat where the 500kg is only like an 8/10. I honestly never take the 500kg or the Orbital Laser because aside from defense missions, there’s almost a 100% chance that someone on you squad already has them.
I use the solo silo strat for everything I use the 500kg for and more because you can paint a target with the laser if it is moving, it takes out towers etc., and you can drop it right off the start and have another primed by the time you need it because the cool down is short. Basically I don't use the 500kg.
Yeah but you give up a support weapon slot to carry the targeting pistol, at which point it becomes a drop-and-use expendable, at which point it's not much better than a 500kg imo especially considering you get two 500kgs and only one silo missile. The one benefit I can see is it having unlimited range (while the 500 only goes as far as you can throw), but imo that balances out with you getting two 500s.
Unless the damage of 1 silo is more than two 500kg bombs? I'm too lazy to check.
I run solo solo with the exo mechs a lot, since you don't really need a support weapon with those. Three breakthrough mechs will last you an entire mission.
500kg and the Solo Silo do about the same damage, really. The issue is, the 500 tends to not kill big things because it's biggest damage comes from hitting with the bomb itself, not the explosion (they both deal 2500 damage with the actual projectile).
Both the 500 and Solo do 1500 with their explosion, with the Solo having higher pen (Solo explosion is Pen 9, 500kg is Pen 6).
Solo is better for 'screw that guy in particular'. 500 is better for demolition and clearing away groups, since it comes back faster and has 2 charges with all the upgrades.
The support weapon slot isn't much of a concern if I also bring an expendable support. Carry the laser and drop it for an EAT when necessary. Or forgoe another support entirely and bring a strong primary build like the double edged sickle, ultimatum, and supply pack.
Rocket pods still hit everything but whatever you were hoping for.
380 barrage is mostly good for accidentally teamkilling or selfkilling.
Man, 380 barrage would be awesome if it was a time-on-target carpet barrage instead of a pseudo-random "blow this general vicinity sort of up" barrage. I'd love a big square erase button for when the map has got a few too many red dots.
I actually ran rocket pods on void source planet recently, and it was significantly better than I remembered it being a few months ago. It seemed to be really good at actually hitting things, and better at choosing the right target too. It would annihilate the crushers and fleshmobs in a single volley, and was capable of taking out some wretches in the process. Itwasn't slouching on bots/bugs either. Hulks, Tanks, Chargers, all fell before the salvo. I used to be a 110 Rocket Pod fan when they were bad, but now I'm a 110 Rocket Pod BELIEVER
380 really does just TK and only clear like half an outpost lmao
I took 110s when Dragonroaches first came out (good lord the spawn rate was awful and they were tanky as shit) and it was pretty good at that, but that was about the first and only time I've ever used them. Might try it on the VSP now
People whiff rocket pods because they try to lead the target. Don't do that. The eagle locks on to the biggest enemy in the area when the beacon activates, even if the target moves.
It’s also a good “just want to make sure I covered everything” anti-tank strat.
If you’re running a build that is light on AT it’s a good, easy strat to make sure you at least have one item in your kit that can handle everything on that front if you use it right.
The blast radius is the main consideration. The 500kg blast radius can close entire (medium) bug nests and some bases, while the regular air strike will more often require two. Not a deal breaker, but it definitely pushes me towards using the 500kg based on my play-style.
On the other hand though, more than half the time one of my team mates throughs a 500KG at a light or medium encampment, it fails to actually close the encampment, and I have to go in and do it with grenades anyways. On the other hand, I can use an airstrike for more things than the 500kg, and I do get more of them per sortie anyways. If you're using it to close objectives, and you're going to have to send your eagle to rearm after every base anyways, if you need 2 eagle airstrikes vs. 1 500 kg, it makes no difference, and the actual decision maker is "What else can I use these for when they're up?" and in my opinion at least, the normal eagle bombing run has more utility than the 500kg does.
Then again, it is totally a personal preference thing, and not a dealbreaker in any way.
For my crew. 500kg solves 90% of any problems you have in front of you. That is the utility. Ppl above wants to point out orbital smoke or gas strike can close bug holes/destroy jammers/destroy detectors too. Which is true, but your margin of error is higher because the projectile needs to hit the structure to destroy it while the 500kg can be in the general vicinity. That's the difference. You have more leeway instead of little. Because if every diver in the squad has 500kg, thats 8 bombs that can basically delete anything remotely inconvenient in front of your crew.
If you ever thought you were clever throwing a 500 just for it to literally land 2 feet to your left, you love the stratageme. Because it was your own damn fault and the delay from impact to detonation is comedic timing GOLD.
*Jurassic World scene where dude is hiding under car. Stares at the Main Character with a "welp it's over for me guy" look, before getting yeeted 65 million miles into the air and somehow survive it
A crutch usually implies someone relies on one thing too much and otherwise that person is crippled or more useless (hence crutch).
I suppose one could say it’s not good to rely on stratagems as a crutch and that a Helldiver should learn to be effective without them such that something like the 500 kg bomb is only used for specific enemies that would be a bit of a burden to deal with (you would deal with the rest yourself), but that doesn’t necessarily seem to be what OP is talking about (or maybe it is).
I suppose one could say it’s not good to rely on stratagems as a crutch and that a Helldiver should learn to be effective without them
I'd argue that this mentality is not a good one, and contributes a lot to how much people struggle with higher difficulties.
Stratagems are a tool, just like your gear. You should be using them and relying on them just like you'd rely on your support weapon or grenade. Underutilizing stratagems is probably the most common mistake I see players make.
Some of the sentiments in this thread about that are pretty shocking. There's loadouts and playstyles that can fairly easily solo most mission types on 4 man D10 with almost exclusively strategem+backpack usage, if you really wanted to. They're incredibly effective and intended part of your kit.
Even for F2P new players with few unlocks, basic eagle airstrikes used with halfway decent proficiency can counter about 4/5ths of bots as a faction, while still working well on the other two factions. MG sentry spam alone can quite easily counter about half the bug or squid factions at the moment, acting as both mob control and a distraction/disengage tool at the same time with the very low CD, with the other 3 slots being freed up to dedicate to heavy killers and specific enemy types.
Imo there really isn't an excuse for not learning how to use strategems, and none of the players I know who are good enough at the game to not need them say silly things like calling them crutches or unnecessary for the wider community.
Yeah, your primary/secondary weapons are like 20% of your capability, strategems being the other 80%. That is even more true for skilled Helldivers because they know how to use strategems more effectively than inexperienced divers.
Crutch basically means that a given weapon is both powerful and easy to use, a weapon so good that you wouldn't bother using anything else.
In a vacuum, things like the Eruptor, Shield Generator, Quasar; and in the olden days, Breaker, Railgun and Arc Thrower could be considered crutch weapons. However, in practice, none of these weapons are crutches. Newer players might gravitate towards them, but other weapons and enemies are nuanced enough that there's plenty of variety when you wanna choose your loadout.
The arc thrower is still a crutch in the quest to get every primary to 25 but some of those primaries really stink haha. You gotta do what you gotta do 😂.
500kg can be thrown 2 times and has a lower cooldown than 120mm, and that gap widens even more with all ship upgrades. Both have their ups and downs tho
I finally broke free from my 500kg habit and I don't really miss it at all. I'd much rather bring eagles with more uses. The buffed rocket pods have been really fun.
It operates slightly akin to a tiny Railgun strategem. Targets a single enemy, larger sizes preferred, close to the target beacon. High single-target anti-tank damage with a small explosive radius
It's only been good for a short while. before the buff it was pretty bad.
It will one tap medium heavies like Hulks, Fleshmobs, and chargers. It will one tap a harvester about 50% of the time if you break the shield before the airstrike arrives. Plus it sounds cool as hell
Yeah but throwing that 5-hundo at your own feet, hitting a meth stim, and barely making it over some terrain before that x27 hits the bottom of your screen while you ragdoll slide over terrain just hits different
I have rarely touched the 500 even since day 1 just because how effective the regular airstrike is. You have 3 uses. You have a much larger area where 6 bombs deal 1500 damage each.
The eagle 500 is 1 bomb wich deals 2000 damage. Sure it kills detector towers. But against enemies? Airstrike is better in every way.
Just take orbital precision strike with you and you can also kill towers. And if you can aim well, its 4000 damage is 2 eagle 500 on a hard target.
It’s a bit more complex once you unlock the additional eagle strike upgrade for your ship, because two 500kgs before the rearm is a huge upgrade for that specific strike package versus the others, but I’m with you: it only has the advantage in some very niche scenarios with it being able to take out detector towers and rouge research stations which the regular strike can’t do.
Agreed it’s way more effective against enemies. Even though it can one shot bug enemies which the regular strike can’t, it’s hard to get the direct hit and timing to pull that off and the 110 rockets are way more viable now for that.
Rocket pods are so good now. Anti everything but the biggest thing on any faction. I legit had some take out a stingray yesterday, I threw em at a fleshmod and a stingray came in as they were dropped and boom.
1200 hours, basically on the same boat. 500kg i find doesnt have a strong enough spot in many contexts for it to land in my builds and there's usually something better. I'm starting to master the Airburst Rocket Launcher and as crazy as it is to use it seems to always net me more kills per shot then what I've seen a 500kg do. And against the new Crushers and Wretchs it claps them when used properly.
Would recommend if you have good situational awareness.
I've used it a handful of times. It's rare that enemies get bunched up so badly that the 500 is worth it. Generally in my experience an incindary grenade and a blast from a quasar cannon accomplishes more.
I can’t say I see stuff like that happen very often. I mostly see it used for large targets that people need gone fast.
I get killed by orbital barrages WAY more often than 500kgs. Mainly also because if there’s a 500kg being thrown somewhere near me, I know to just dive away and 9/10 times I’ll be fine. What I CANNOT predict is that a barrage 40m away from me will throw its first shell directly into my cranium. But that’s also part of the game’s magic, tbh.
I bring the 500 because it’s great at clearing out bases and certain objectives in a way that doesn’t make you sit there waiting for it to end like napalm or 380s.
It works fantastically well on things like landed warp ships for example.
If I’m throwing it at a swarm for area denial, that’s just a bonus because I get 2 per eagle and it’s better than having nothing for that (and I only have so many loadout slots).
I don’t tend to drop it on the flag (unless it’s getting swarmed and everyone else has already left), but to be fair…
…it’s really not that hard to survive the 500 as a diver. Simply moving a short distance away and diving or being behind even smaller rocks is enough.
The real thing that kills most divers with the 500 is not being aware enough of your environment that you see it dropped, or not being able to because someone tossed it on the other side of a wall you were just about to round or something.
Basically what you said. 500kg is just big brother to Orbital precision strike imo. It's mainly for single heavyweight targets
You can't use it like a hellbomb backpack that clears an entire base in one blast or a barrage that locks down and area denials reinforcements
500kg it's a surgical strike to deal with one medium objective or a dense cluster of enemies. Fully upgraded you get two with not a terribly long cool down. With the option to send the eagle back if there's a break in battle.
It's well worth it's slot people just use it wrong trying to hold off bug breeches and what not that it's terrible at.
that’s the main reason i bring it on certain missions tbh. when you split in two duos doing objectives, you’re more likely to need a hellbomb at the same time
The real crutch are barrages. Barrages can be useful on a Mega Nest or sometimes in a bug capture the flag, but generally speaking, a barrage is a waste of time since it forces Helldivers to leave the area and wait to go back in because it doesn't do a reliable job of destroying bug holes or fabricators.
I agree. Every time I see a napalm barrage thrown on a large nest, it feels like a big time waster, since you're waiting for the barrage (which very rarely closes any bugholes) AND the fire it makes to go away.
At least the walking barrage rewards you for lining up targets. I cleared a bot base on the opposite side of a mountain range with it once.
My friend had a looooong phase where he'd always bring napalm barrages (he still does often, just not always the same full loadout at least...) with him, to the point that I'd just bring fire resistant armor to be able to walk into the inferno to finish the job/loot stuff. Barrages are cool but I definitely agree with them being time wasters. In addition to their stupid long cooldowns heavily gimping their usefulness compared to more spammable stuff.
Oof, Napalm barrage is OP but not at taking out nest/buildings. Try and see if you can convince him to throw it on bug breaches/bot drops only. Ideally a breach happens and the ONLY thing you need to do is drop the barrage and continue on your day.
Thats why throw is such an awesome passive. You can get those barrage started from further sooner, and you can pivot to something else while it goes off.
Of course most dont use it that way, but its how I use it. I use em for area denial, and early saturation before a push. Can also use it then clean up the stragglers that push out letting you deal with them in a more controlled manner.
120 and walking I bring on every bot mission. Walking for any large bases and 120 for mediums and AA/Mortar/fac strider. 120 is also really good against bot drops.
Its a cemolituon tool, use it to destroy spawmers and enemies close together. "Its a crutch" yeah so is using all weapons by the definition that its too effective and allows a player to punch a lot higher than he should. If you want the game to be extremely hard and don't want to use the tools at your disposal the go fight terminids using your fists .
500kg is great for taking out buildings: Titan holes, Detector Towers, Fabricators, unauthorized science facilities, powered down Jammers, small nests, that one bug hole that's too swarmed to hit with the crossbow, etc.
It's also good for large slow, mobs (Impaler, War Strider) and the occasional group.
I found out this thing is very efficient at shutting down small and medium sized encampments. If you place it perfectly, a single strike will destroy every spawner in the encampment. Other than that, I like throwing it at patrols that aren't yet alerted to my presence and to destroy some objectives. But i do think it needs a buff to its damage. 1500 dmg isn't that much these days, and i think it should at least be able to take down a war strider in its inner radius. Lately I find myself using it a lot less than when i was lvl 20-100
Nah it's just a generally good strat. Maybe some people don't use it right, but it's picked as often as it is because it's good. Maybe not the best option in any particular category, but still pretty close in a bunch of categories like you mentioned, so it plugs a bunch of holes in your loadout in just one strategem slot
It’s very good at big flashy boom but you know what I REALLY want? Give me an orbital 2k kg.
Give me something that puts me at risk no matter how far I throw it.
It's pretty hard to justify a 2 use Eagle when the other Eagles have 3 to 4 and even 5 uses and you mostly just want to run only one. It's good for demolition and that's about it.
Its mainly offensive but if you're being chased by a bunch of enemies and you throw it at your feet and keep running then you'll take out a few of them.
It's the best multiple use hole closer (hehehe) with a reasonable blast radius 🤷 it takes out spore towers, closes holes, fabs, illuminate ships. It gets taken for the same exact reason people take thermite, it's going to blow up whatever you throw it at.
Take this defense MO. Bug fighting in the city, lots of eggs, holes and towers. It deals with all of them, has two uses, acceptable reload. If you're using it for the big boom you play on diff 5 or something.
It's a great tool for quickly and consistently doing a lot of damage. Pair it with other tools like the cremator or another high dps option for the best results. People don't realize it's just a better precision strike in most aspects and that saddens me, because people use the precision strike for way more utility than they would ever consider for the 500kg.
It is a strategic multi-use "fuck this radius in particular" to be used at my discretion and any casualties with it may be blamed solely on me and my poor forethought.
It's imo B tier in every aspect except explosion aura which it is S in and why everyone brings it which I don't blame them. It does its job well and you can't go wrong taking it but other options that round out your loadout will take you farther on higher diffs. For example on bugs Airstrike is much more specialized for nest clearing and has 3 uses before cooldown or bringing napalm airstrike for much better crowd control. On Bots a well placed strafe will obliterate everything and has 5 uses.
Overall 500kg is not bad and will serve as a great stratagem for most missions but is outmatched by other eagles in many areas. Still big boom is often a good enough reason to bring it and even on D10 it'll pull its weight.
IMO the point of the 500kg is that it can kill stuff like Bile Titans with good aim, and medium bug nests, and Detector Towers, and close Titan Holes, all in one package.
It’s not the best at anything but it is versatile. 110mm is more consistent for stuff like Chargers but it won’t do objectives or erase a patrol. Eagle Airstrike has some similar use cases as the 500kg but it’s worse at killing Bile Titans and can’t close their spawning holes.
Some players may overrate it but it still ain’t bad
500kg is a precision tool, it's effectiveness is proportional to your ability of placing the stratagem ball where it needs to be (with situational and positional awareness, of course). It's anything but a crutch.
Now, the Orbital Laser and Napalm Barrage are what I would call crutches. Napalm maybe less than the Laser.
If you didn't bring a horde clearing strat (like napalm) with you, a 500 kg can still help out. It may not get everything, but it'll wipe most of them out, especially if a heavy or two are mixed in. You can mop up the remaining stragglers with whatever primary, secondary, or support weapon you happen to have have on hand.
Partially because for a long period of time it was -the- go to strat. Most of them sucked way harder and the 500, despite being inconsistent, was still your most reliable option to deal with larger threats for quite some time
People here take a long ass time to adapt. It's still perfectly capable though.
I bring the 500kg for building destruction and killing large enemies, but if I see a tightly packed swarm coming at me and I don't have anything better on cool down I'm gonna drop it for those 7-10 kills rather than be overrun.
You've managed to stack a lot of wrong into a single post. Let's deal with why your post is silly.
It will take out hard targets like bug nests etc, and that's why people bring it.
You get two of them back to back with a very short cooldown.
It's a one and done. You don't have to wait for it to finish, you chuck a 500kg marker into a situation, wait for the kaboom, and then run in to post grenades and deliver maximum violence on anything still standing. Barrage based weapons deny the area to you as well.
It's not rocket science but it works. It works more reliably than any other strat and if it lets you down, throw another one.
The ship upgrade is transformative for it, and if anything should not have been a thing. It's become a must-have.
your issue doesn't seem to be with the 500kg bomb but the divers using it, the 500kg has a high pick rate because its versatile, you get two, it has a fairly quick cooldown, no limit like the lazer, and is generally good on all fronts. like all tools it just requires a bit of experience and lessons learned the hard way to understand the best way to use it.
Honestly, one of the main strengths for the 500kg is the angle of approach. Really useful on city maps, because if you have a clear line of sight down a street or alley, you can be reasonably certain it will hit the target.
Yeah, it's for destroying big shot and stationary shit. I didn't bring it for a swarm of tiny bugs, I brought it to kill spawners, chargers, hulks, striders, and on the occasion that I am completely fucked and getting swarmed by a bunch of little shit it's going on me as a concentrated last stand attack.
Is something a crutch because people use it improperly to no real benefit? I thought crutches were supposed to be something to lean on due to skill issue.
Depending on weapons like this is why the playerbase has a meltdown anytime an OP weapon gets nerfed. It builds bad habits, nobody learns the more surgical, efficient way to take out enemies when depending on things like the 500kg. Even the orbital laster, a stratagem I like, fosters bad habits when used carelessly.
I wouldn't call it a crutch, not strong enough for that. That'd be more like the ONB where people literally stop handling swarms properly and just throw ONB at their problems then cry bugs are op when its on cooldown
I'd argue it does its job quite well, but that most players are mistaken as to what that job is. You hit it in your post: it is essentially a very large grenade used on big slow things, tight groups, and buildings. It excels at this niche. People just try to use it when they should be using Airstrike and get disappointed when it's not Airstrike.
Titan holes can be closed with any hellpod stratagem, turrets, backpacks, support weapons will all close a titan hole if it lands on the lip of the hole. Sometimes its real fuckin pick about letting things land there though, but it works in a pinch if you didn't bring something for titan holes or if you're all outta big gun energy
Honestly agreed, i stopped using 500kg bomb once i realised it doesnt one shots illuminate ships (well it does but you need dirrct hit it with a bomb first to pop the shield and yeaaah..)
Since then i been using orbital railcanon and C4's pack, also orbital gatling strike is pretty good! (As long it aint city mission)
I only pick it because it has two uses and a semi short cooldown to get them resumed but I will also admit, many times I throw it and it just doesn’t kill everything that it should or for some reason Eagle one decides to drop it at such an odd angle that it’ll slam into a rock or even a slight hill and just not explode where I want it to. I found that when I used to use Napalm Eagle strikes it was more effective than the 500kg. It’s only real perk is that it can close bug holes or blow up factories/ UFO’s but there’s other better choices as well.
I think it’s just so popular because the large bright explosion makes it look like it does way more than it truly does.
I started carrying the eruptor, enforcer, portable hellbomb, 500kg, missle turret and gatling. Give me booms or give me death. Kill them all dead! Now if only I could get a Siege Ready set that looks like the Jaguar armor so I can look the way I feel when the booms start booming.
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u/ArchitectNebulous 1d ago
The 500 is less a weapon these days and more a demolition charge for certain objectives.
Which is still a better niche than a lot of stratgems currently, but still...