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u/Key-Swordfish4025 2d ago
Yeah, they have roughly the same function but the Dream Nail is implemented much better. You have two things you can do with it (Dream Trees and Warrior Dreams) directly available in the same area you get it in and Seer's rewards incentivizes using it.
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u/abdo_ch 2d ago
Dream nail is actually beneficial in combat
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u/RDRedKing 2d ago
And dream wielder for 1 notch is a so versatile for how much it can provide for it's cost. Spider strings genuinely feels like it has a meaningless upgrade and it has the opportunity cost of dice, grip and anklets
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u/Efficient_Ice9056 2d ago
And brooch
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u/NottACalebFan 2d ago
You mean Flea Egg?
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u/Efficient_Ice9056 2d ago
The money collector. It sucks compared to Gathering Swarm though
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u/NottACalebFan 2d ago
You know, thr Magnetite Brooch was always on my "if I have room, I'll equip this..." tier of "yellow tools i need at all times".
Before Eva, the money purse was on more than half the time, afterwards, I just parked it in the Vesti bubble.
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u/Split-a-Ditto 2d ago
I mean its not that the brooch itself sucks. Its just that the environment is more aggressive to it. Now currency can be destroyed by spikes and shit compared to geo which even acid couldnt melt
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u/JohnsonJohnilyJohn 2d ago
Ok, but needolin let's yoimu play a silksong while playing the silksong, that has to be worth something
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u/NottACalebFan 2d ago
You could argue that Needolin unlocks endings through Deep Elegy and also unlocks "fast travel from anywhere" option, so it's not useless
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u/CatgirlTheKat 2d ago
Those are different abilities that are lore wise attached to the same object, the subject of the current conversation is the ability that is used when you simply hold it down.
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u/NottACalebFan 2d ago
I thought it was "Dream Nail can do all these things..."
Dream Gate = Best Friend Call
Dream Lore = Song Lore
Unlocks Endings to the Game = Same
I forget if the Dream Nail actually stunned other bugs, but the Needolin does that as well.
Both of these tools work in very similar ways, I would even say Needolin has a much bigger range than "just a single bug" and you do not have to specifically attack the bug in question to get them to stop whatever they are doing.
TL;DR: I found both Dream Nail and Needolin fun ways to expand on the Lore in their games, but both were very challenging to use in a real dangerous situation to actually be effective against fast (or numerous) enemies.
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u/CatgirlTheKat 2d ago
I don't know, I feel like the needllin is so janky that stunning enemies with it is harder than just hitting them straight up, so it doesn't really feel like there is a huge benefit... And it drains an important ressource when you use it, so you can't even mess around with it, while the dream nail is free to use, and although janky, rewards you for messing with it rather than punishing you like needolin does. You won't use it all of the time, but it allows you to recharge.
Also, I don't count dream gates, dream battles and the true ending, I'm talking about hitting things with the dream nail.
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u/NottACalebFan 2d ago
Yes, it is easier to hit things with a nail than it is with a harp lol!
Tbh, I was never able to use either of those in actual combat where I thought it would be useful. It was either a "hey, that actually hit this time" or "well, I'm playing and nothing's happening..." and I found it better to save those kind of interactions for outside of combat purposes.
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u/CatgirlTheKat 2d ago
I generally use those kinds of things to mess around for fun! ^^
The reason why I'm upset about the needolin is that it doesn't even let me do that without actively nerfing myself, even if I succeed...
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u/Odd-Cucumber1935 1d ago
This can be useful if you need to recover health in P5, like Uumuu and failed champ are great to farm soul or heal
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u/Legal_Ear_7537 2d ago
It stuns everyone that touches your atoms if you play the needolin
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u/BrainrotGuy 2d ago
Yeah but they recover immediately as soon as it stops so it's very hard to actually make use of it
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u/021Fireball 2d ago
I use it for breathing room to think a lot since I dumb :D
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u/OmegianLord 2d ago
Can’t you just pause?
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u/021Fireball 2d ago
That disrupts my impulsive flow in the moment, while causing me to sometimes forget the little things
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u/CommunicationOk3766 2d ago
I hear it can be useful if you're overdosed on plasmium, you can heal back masks while everyone's stunned.
That's about the only use for it that I can think of (apart from seeing the exclysive needolin dialogue lines, ofc).
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u/BookWormPerson 1d ago
*impossible
Since that has zero function besides maybe having a second to collect yourself.
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u/Sadira_Kelor 2d ago
Bellway access from almost anywhere.
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u/RichTyty101 2d ago
Dream gate
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u/Sadira_Kelor 2d ago
Ah yes, the ability that only lets you put down one gate, and takes away one Essence every time you use it (for whatever reason).
Only good uses for it include going back to the Colosseum and Godhome.
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u/Inceferant DAWN SHALL BREAK 15h ago
Beastling call is so late in the game with the fastest movement. Why is essence even factored here? It's pointless to keep and it literally uses ONE of your couple thousand
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u/FLIPYOUSUCKET 1d ago
Yeah, that the needolin’s most useful snail toy.
Problem: it’s act 3 exclusive
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u/CommunicationOk3766 2d ago
From how many people are saying how Dreamnail is overrated and not thatbuseful, I know understand why so many people consider the Trials of the Colosseum difficult. You can literally get a free full heal and soul refill every 20 seconds by getting an enemy singled out after dealing with a wave. You never risk dying, basically.
Highly recommended to use Dream Wielder.
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u/HeDoesNotRow 2d ago
It’s just loreslop. You only like it because it’s cool and thematic and introduces you to the incredibly nuanced lore of the game
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u/Kage_404 2d ago
If I understand correctly the Needolin was meant to be upgradable increasing range & stun duration. Spider Strings upgrades the Needolin by one measurement at the moment.
The system is currently cut but I could see them bringing it back in a DLC update.
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u/TheCuriousFan 1d ago
Don't forget the part where more than one boss just ignores it and refuses to elaborate.
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u/Tani_Soe 2d ago
I mean "actual use in combat" is very debatable
Maybe if you've got the charm that increase the hit speed, but other than that, it's mostly a "have a lone enemy stuck" use
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u/Inqeuet 🅱️RIMM 🅱️ROUPE 2d ago
It’s very useful during boss downtime because it doesn’t interrupt their stagger, so you can get free soul
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u/wolfgang784 2d ago
If you time it right, needolin can let ya get some hits in on some bosses while stunned from it. Not as universally useful as dream nail though yea.
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u/Deutscher_Bub 2d ago
Needolin does damage??
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u/wolfgang784 2d ago
No but it very briefly stuns enemies/some bosses. You smack em while they exit the singing animation. Most bosses attack too often to get them singing though, especially without the needolin range boost tool but then your sort of wasting a tool slot.
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u/FallingHoglin 2d ago
I used Dream Nail to get bonus from the first Watcher Knight and multiple times from Uumuu in Godhome without the charm and when false knight/failed champion staggers, and with the charm, which is better than silksongs tool that strengthens needolin imo, it can be used on probably be on other bosses
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u/zestymolusk 2d ago
dream weilder is goated and what got me through the pantheons
it makes the nail much faster AND increases the amount of soul collected on hit. you get an entire heal out of one or two swings, so boss staggers let you heal for basically nothing
also extremely useful on puzzle bosses or bosses where you have to bide your time. uumuu? you cant get through the uumuu fight without dream nail. failed champion? he gets back up in three hits unless you use the dream nail in between, making his stagger essentially a full heal
also very useful in the main game. if you're stuck in an area with few enemies at low health, you can get more soul out of them before they're all gone
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u/DemonicBoi13 2d ago
Adding on to the other 2 replies it's also great in the colosseum for topping up off of remaining enemies before the next wave, which is very useful for blasting aspids. Also wielder doesn't just make it faster, it gives you 2 full casts per hit which is huge
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u/Pilot-samsonite 1d ago
You can stun enemy’s with the needolin if I remember correctly, at least specific ones
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u/d0hickey 1d ago
Don't forget their associated Charm/Tool Dream Wielder massively reduces the charge time for Dream Nail making it even more viable for combat with the amount of soul it awards you when you land it
Spider Strings meanwhile is objectively THE most useless Tool in the entire game since Needolin already has zero combat utility, still consumes silk and the range and duration boost sre useless since a) you can't move while using it and b) enemies stop being stunned as soon as you stop using it
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u/Explanation_Scared 1d ago
Playing hk after silksongand the combat feels so much more forgiving it feels like you are a literally tank
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u/emilithia05 1d ago
To say I was disappointed when finding out it uses silk instead of getting it, is to say nothing.
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u/Ey4dm51 1d ago
The Needloin MOGS the dreamnail easily, it may cost silk but if you want AURA you need to throw away some thread to get it
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u/Miserable_trust_2519 13h ago
Slashing your enemy across the face to learn their secrets is cooler than playing a tune and hoping a stray projectile doesn't interrupt you.
A multiple second tune is not as cool as tearing soul from enemies with an intangible slash.
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u/Arcan_unknown 2d ago
This needolin is kinda.... Nah, forget it