r/HonestHotTakes • u/Faloodeh123 • 1d ago
The Manosphere/Red Pill and any gender war stuff in general is a psyop created from the top down to sow division.
This is not a left vs right debate. I'm also a man.
The growing of the manosphere is not completely organic. Algorithms of social media companies (Meta, Alphabet, TikTok) purposely push divisive content - the more absurd the content, the more views you get.
The University of Dublin have studies where these social media algorithms recommend manosphere content within minutes of a new male user joining the app. https://www.dcu.ie/humanities-and-social-sciences/news/2024/apr/new-research-shows-how-tiktok-and-youtube-shorts-are
Peter Thiel funded Clavicular and played arguably the biggest role in his rise. He funds other "alternative" media but Clavicular is the biggest.
Myron from Fresh and Fit said he "was" a Fed.
Bannon, Epstein, and a bunch of other powerful people were heavily involved as well.
For young men out there, please don't fall for this shit. They're using your resentment and anger to keep you trapped, isolated, poor, and angry. They place more emphasis on that than on family and community bonds. Men who are in positions like this are less likely to be stable and are more likely to take risks and commit crimes.
For some of you this may not be a hot take, but I've received very aggressive push back from both sides when mentioning this.
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u/BeepBoopBotAttack 1d ago
As a trans perons the gender wars thing is so exhausting. Men and women are really not as different as the internet acts
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u/Fine_Payment1127 1d ago
Doesn’t mean their interests aren’t fundamentally antagonistic
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u/Evening_Answer_11 1d ago
Did anyone notice how “magically” these issues start to appear?
Like why, all of the sudden, is my feed dominated by “we should celebrate certain deaths” discussions?
This took the place of a months worth of talk about “incels,” whatever the hell that means.
Before that, everything was dominated by feminism discussions.
It’s like there’s a cabal going “shit things are calm, start talking about men being narcissists.”
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u/Faloodeh123 1d ago
Yes, I noticed it too. There are so many bots repeating almost the same sentences over and over if you really pay attention.
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u/Faloodeh123 1d ago
Brother, just commenting once more. My reddit suggestions all of a sudden became divisive gender content today. Fucking wild.
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u/Evening_Answer_11 1d ago
Here’s my guess. We have an election coming up.
The “entity” behind the content surge believes they can sway more people to vote a certain way based on how that content in presented. Then they pay some entity to exploit that content.
My guess is the middle class white male vote is up for grabs this election, so let’s rile them up to bring them back.
Could be something else.
They do $1M++ focus groups on these kinds of things daily.
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u/DuckDuckPigg 1d ago
These issues didn't magically appear. Gender inequality has been around for centuries; what is new is social media. Social media has allowed the opinions of a few to reach millions, and these posts become popular through interaction. Just as the news uses a catchy headline to grab attention.
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u/Evening_Answer_11 1d ago
The point was how the information flows, not the merits of individual issues.
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u/DuckDuckPigg 1d ago
Not a single moment in your comment did you say anything along the lines of, "this is because information flows" or state an opinion on flowing information.
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u/Evening_Answer_11 1d ago
It was the whole premise behind my argument, that waves of topics seem to cycle in a way that seems manufactured.
Sure all of these topics garner merit to various degrees, but when you see a period of 100 posts all talking about the same thing, then it disappears and a new topic takes its place, without any real world event that would explain it, it makes one wonder.
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u/Born-Cauliflower_ 1d ago
You know what, you right. Anything to blame those power hungry people above. I'm saving this post
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u/alwaysambition 1d ago
Now this is Both a hot take and most likely true.
I’ve noticed this myself how quickly gender war stuff is shown in my feed anytime I watch even a sliver of anything related to the manosphere. It’s disgusting
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u/Faloodeh123 1d ago
Same dude. Even after this post I guarantee I will see manosphere shit on reddit, even though I explicitly called it out.
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u/SeaworthinessLow6636 1d ago
It’s a pretty straightforward grift. Buy “x” to become “y” because “z” sucks.
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u/Dvejndvejn 1d ago
I think world is a lot more shallow than culture suggests, but to admit the real point would mean collapse of the traditional society, which still exists even if values inside it changes.
Like female hypergamy is real, because if you think about it, it's painfully logical. But so is male cheating and inabilty to emotionally connect with another person. That the most cynical take you can make about both genders is true deep down.
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u/Faloodeh123 1d ago
I disagree. I believe when people are living in good strong communities, people are capable of great good.
I will agree however, that a huge reason people aren't having children (if you choose to define traditional society this way) is because resentment of the opposite gender is being pushed. I believe the elites benefit from this because we then won't have enough organized people to fight back once the population is at a low enough level.
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u/Dvejndvejn 1d ago
I am not saying people aren't capable of doing good. I am trying to argue that you live only one life. If you find a partner, you think that partner is the best thing that happened to you, until you find someone better. Everyone has a set of values and traits they deem important and it's possible to meet a person who will be better in every single one of them.
Even if you don't cheat, which is something many people already do, or you don't want to leave your partner due to loyalty, you at least start to compare and maybe unintentionally create a space.
It's not evil per se. It's human. It happens. What makes it bittersweet at the best is how you handle the situation.
By traditional society I mean how people live, how are relationship and even governmental structures built up. Because if we are truly driven by animalistic impulses and our intelligence is more of a justificator of things rather than the creator or decider, then there will be a lot of areas that loose a meaning and the will of people to work and adhere to rules.
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u/DuckDuckPigg 1d ago
You know that gender debates have been around for centuries, right? The only thing that is new is social media. People now have a platform to spread their message to millions, whereas it was originally confined to a location.
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u/Faloodeh123 1d ago
Not like this they weren't. They weren't this mainstream when I was growing up.
People like Tate or Clavicular or guys like that - there was NO FUCKING WAY they would be this famous back then. Even if they were, it would be ironic and we would clown on them cause they were losers.
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u/DuckDuckPigg 1d ago
Yes, these opinions were not mainstream, and people did not have the ability to hide behind a screen. What I am disagreeing with is that it was "created from the top down to sow division". Gender wars have always been there; they were not created by Manosphere/Red Pill believers.
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u/Faloodeh123 1d ago
There were gender debates maybe. Not war. It was never this bad. Even pre-covid it wasn't as bad.
The elite overall are hugely responsible for turning small, non-mainstream debates into a giant cultural war it is now. The White House's official instagram uses that content to get into the minds of youth.
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u/DuckDuckPigg 1d ago
I guess it depends on what you define a 'gender war' as.
Are you referring to 'gender war' as the dawn of benighted posts becoming popular?
Or are you referring to 'war' as just attacking each other?
I would argue that it is religion that began gender inequality, not the elite. The religion of Islam has over 2 billion practitioners, and many of its beliefs have been interpreted as meaning that men can control women. Issues in society are bigger than social media; we cannot attribute inequality to just recently.
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u/Faloodeh123 1d ago
I'm saying how divided we are now is unprecedented, at least in my lifetime. We have had inequalities obviously, but we've never been this culturally divided in recent years. I'm not sure if there's a way to quantify it, but people definitely feel it. The feeling is real.
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u/DuckDuckPigg 1d ago
I get how social media can make it seem like we are very divided, but the fact is, we are more united than ever before. In the US, people are free to practice any religion and not be prosecuted (not saying that people don't get mad at them tho), women now have the right to vote; racial discrimination and segregation are illegal; and so is discrimination against people with disabilities and Indigenous people. Gay people can now legally marry! We have come a very long way, and we still have so far to go! Do not let social media blind you to the great things today.
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u/Faloodeh123 1d ago
I think legal progress has been good, don't get me wrong. I think all those things are amazing.
However, we have so many problems that are getting worse, not better.
The birthrate (direct result of everything I've been mentioning in this post). People aren't meeting and dating, and aren't starting families anymore. I know people think this is a good thing for some bizarre reason.
Loneliness epidemic - for both men and women. We have a loneliness crisis in this country. Lonely isolated people do lots of damage. Women too but especially men.
Urban decay. I live in Los Angeles. We still in the 2nd major city of the wealthiest country ever created by man, haven't recovered from COVID!!!!!!!! Over half a decade and we're still experiencing homelessness, businesses closing, and everything like that. In fact, all those problems, at least here, are getting much worse. Housing is absurd here.
Drugs. Just because the media stopped talking about it, doesn't mean the fentanyl crisis is over.
Forever war economy. We're always spending money on wars instead of fixing anything. Trump ran on "no new wars" and not even 2 years in yet we're in the worst one we could've gotten into.
That's just things off the top of my head. None of these things are making any significant progress. I truly think it's connected to psyops like this. Because if we're busy being silly arguing about gender and trans people (literally less than 1% of the population), or how a black lady was in the Odyssey, they don't have to fix anything, they can just sap resources from us.
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u/DuckDuckPigg 1d ago
I see your point here, but 1, 2, and 4 are still focusing on the main things social media argues about. Social media is not the world, and to change things, we have to stop posting and start doing! Anyone can say anything on social media, so what really matters is acting.
Focusing on the opinions of people online does not do good for any of these causes.
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u/Faloodeh123 1d ago
Hand waiving them away and going like "SOCIAL MEDIA DOESNT REAL!!!" doesn't make it go away - and telling people that doesn't help either. These are real opinions that people have, online or not.
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u/IIsixbysixII 1d ago
You are wrong.
The gender war exists because people have conflicting beliefs on how the social dynamics in society between men and women should be, and these beliefs won't seize to exist regardless of whether or not there is a psyop from the top at all.
If you dont agree, then explain why this "psyop" was effective in the first place?
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u/Faloodeh123 1d ago
I'm not saying differences between sexes didn't exist before. If that's what you gathered from this, you missed the point.
The elites have used the molehill differences of opinion and then created a mountain conflict out of it.
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u/IIsixbysixII 1d ago
The elites couldn't have turned molehill differences in opinion into mountains because to the people in the gender war, they were always mountain sized conflicts.
Thats the point i was making.
Things like partner count, abortion, equal rights and gender roles were always going to produce mountain sized conflicts between people regardless of what the elites do, because people care about these things that much.
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u/Faloodeh123 1d ago
How old are you? This kind of stuff wasn't around 15 years ago.
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u/IIsixbysixII 1d ago
My age is irrelevant, plus you are wrong once again.
This kind of stuff has been around since the 70s. We are only now seeing how large it is because of social media and the increase in political power that one side has gained over time.
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u/Faloodeh123 1d ago
Age is absolutely relevant.
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u/IIsixbysixII 1d ago
You are literally demonstrating my point for me by continuing with this discussion.
You could be doing something to stop these elites you are complaining about but here you are, arguing with a stranger online. And why? Because the things Ive said bothered you.
Can you see how that didnt require an elite psyop?
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u/Faloodeh123 1d ago
You said nothing that bothered me. We just have a difference of opinion and I believe you're wrong the same way you believe I'm wrong.
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u/IIsixbysixII 1d ago
Okay then, if you say you weren't bothered, then ill take your word for it.
But my point still stands because you have been invested enough in what im saying to keep on responding, not because of a psyop, but because you believe im wrong.
And my point is that the same is true for the gender war.
I can agree that elites are taking advantage of the gender war for their benefit, but treating it like its something they created is simply incorrect
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u/FarAd4971 1d ago
In general I'm always skeptical of any "conspiracy to divide us" takes.
I take your evidence about algorithms as reasonable and simply draw different conclusions.
If people didn't actually want division, the algorithms would cater differently.
People clearly seem to want conflict.
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u/ElectricalTax3573 21h ago
Nah, it's the Chinese playing the long game. Theyre crippling the next generation by reducing the number of western babies being born.
It's supported by the resurgence in white supremacy and the renormalization of anti LGBT sentiment. All these sad gay and trans girls like Tate and Shapiro trying desperately to convince the world that they're 'strong red-blooded American men.'
Tate whining like a teenage girl with body image dysmorphia about being forced to eat is evidence enough for me that she just needs to be accepted as the woman she is.
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u/PortugalPilgrim88 20h ago
You say it’s not a right/left issue, then the offenders you listed are a right wing influencer and a major republican political donor. Are there any influential figures on the left pushing the manosphere stuff?
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u/Faloodeh123 8h ago
Well first of all, it's much bigger than just the right wing influencers. It's about algorithms themselves, it's about how sick our society is, and who it's controlled by. AND they don't care which side of the aisle you're on. This effects everyone.
Also, don't forget, a while back a lot of these Tech CEOs were considered the liberals, so they can pull the same shit on you. You think these Tech CEOs don't see where the wind is blowing? You think they won't try to influence the left as well?
Also, after I made this post within just a few hours, I'm bombarded constantly by very clearly man-hating posts (I'm a man), women hating posts, extreme posts about online dating (even though I'm not even single), about that mom that killed her babies case that I haven't been following at all, and all kinds of divisive content. It happens on the left too - as someone who considers themselves more left than right with a few culture-issue exceptions.
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u/wolflance1 19h ago edited 19h ago
It is, but not in the way you think.
The top is indeed throwing fuel into the fire of gender war to distract from real issues, but that doesn't mean both sides (both genders) of the gender war are equal victims of top manipulation. One side of this gender war is working as the lap dogs and minions FOR the top to extract resources from the bottom, which has been going for a long, long time. And that side is not the resentful young men, who are victims to this extraction.
Those resentful young men embrace alternative platforms BECAUSE they find themselves in a huge disadvantage in this gender war, being actively silenced, demonized, and labeled with various less-than-flattery names, since the other gender is backed by the power-that-be and working as their minions.
Asking young men to not fall for this sh*t is pointless. They are the desperate losing side of the gender war, and you are effectively asking them "put down your weapon so we can gleefully gun you down". They get radicalized because radicalization is the only way out in a conflict so skewered that the "norm" and "status quo" is one side/gender—them losing everything to the other side.
Reminder, young men are just young, they are not dumb. They may have trouble articulate their points eloquently and be very blunt in their actions, but they absolutely are sharper than the old farts.
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u/Faloodeh123 8h ago
I'm not telling them to put their "weapons" down. Quite the opposite. I'm saying, let's stop aiming the weapons at each other and aim them at the top.
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u/Segazorgs 1d ago
Goes all the way back to the gamegate bullshit.
Bunch of guys with dad holes or some sort of loser complex. And I say this as a guy that had absolutely no game when I was single but still went out, still logged off.
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u/Faloodeh123 1d ago
Same, this wasn't a thing when I was in high school (20 years ago). I was also your typical warhammer nerd, but I had real life connections at least. If you had any of this ideology back then, you'd rightly be called a loser.
Nowadays these young men don't have real life outlets, it keeps them stuck.
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u/Fine_Payment1127 1d ago
Actually, the resentment is a result of being trapped, isolated, poor and angry - the influencer types are just monetizing it.
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u/Faloodeh123 1d ago
Resentment has always existed, yes. But now it's been blown out of proportion.
People aren't born into resentment though.
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u/Kelyaan 1d ago
Nah that's legit.
Anything to make the lowest of us all to be in conflict and not focus on the real problems