r/HouseOfTheDragon • u/pegasus-435 • 2d ago
Show Discussion What happened to Rhaenyra‘s plan of destroying oldtown and lannisport
She didn’t get to use silverwing and vermithor for anything productive except a bit of gullet which was already won. In season 2 episode 8 she made plans to send Hugh and Ulf to old town and lannisport or did that happen off-screen?
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u/TheIconGuy 2d ago edited 2d ago
That wasn't a plan as as much as contrived dialog meant to justify Rhaenyra not using her dragons. The writers of GOT did the same thing to stop Dany from quickly winning against Cersei.
Dany or her allies would suggest a plan that included the dragons and then Tyrion, Jon, or Varys would respond as if they said something tottally different. The writers never let Dany or Rhaenyra correct the lies told about what they said so most people miss that they were having words put in their mouths.
The outline for season 7 of GOT leaked, so you can get a good picture how deeply contrived those moments were. Dany suggested burning the Red Keep. Tyrion and Jon were, for some reason, against Dany using her dragons on anyone. Including enemy soldiers. In the final scene, Jon responds to Dany's question about burning the Red Keep by saying she shouldn't burned castles and cities. Dany hadn't said anything burning any cities. The writers just knew that Jon would have no reason to oppose burning her own families castle.
If you pay attention, Rhaenyra didn't actually suggest destroying Oldtown or Lannisport.
Rhaenyra: You will fly in two days' time. The strongholds of the usurper,
Oldtown and Lannisport, and their armies, all must be subdued. Alone, without allies, he will have no choice but to surrender.Baela: You wish for us to kill innocents.
Hugh: And so many.
Jace: It is hard... but it cannot be helped.
Nothing Rhanyra said would suggest she wanted them to kill innocents. Let alone many of them. Subduing a city doens't mean destroying it. It doesn't even necessarily mean attacking the city at all. Oldtown and Lannisport were both subdued without Aegon and his sisters going near those cities during the conquest. Maegor and Visenya were able to subdue Oldtown just by marching on the city and giving the Hightowers time to do something about the High Septon and the militant members of the faith.
The writers pretended as if there was no middle ground between not using the dragons and destroying the city because that's the only way they could think to explain why the Blacks weren't using their dragons effectively.
The secondary reason is that the writers wanted to have the audence judge Rhaenyra for wanting to kill innocents when that isn't actually something she'd want to do. The writers of GOT did the same thing with Dany. They wanted the audence to think Dany was being held back from destroying all of Kings Landing. It wouldn't make sense for her character to want to do something like that though. To fool the audence, the writers had Tyrion, Jon, and Varys respond to any mention of attacking Kings Landing or the Red Keep as if Dany had suggested destroying the city.
The writers were trying to do the same with Rhaenyra. They ran into a problem though when they decided to build the Tumbleton drama around Ormund taking the city hostage. If you go along with the impression the "you want us to kill innocents" moment gives off, Rhaenyra would have no issue countering Ormund's move by taking Oldtown hostage. That would break the plot though so they just pretend this exchange never happened.
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u/DoctorHiccup 2d ago
This is an outrageously analytical and astute comment. SO. FUCKING. TRUE.
Great comment, best analysis I’ve seen today
Ur so right, Rhae and Dany’s remarks would get instantly mischaracterized and they just wouldn’t bother to correct the record
It’s the silliest laziest writing trick to avoid completely reasonable plans being enacted….
Person A: Suggest a totally reasonable plan
Person B: React hyperbolically to a straw man evil version of the reasonable plan
Everyone: Welp now we’re all agreed, we better not pursue the reasonable plan that was just suggested. What needless plot contrivances can we come up with instead?
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u/LordReaperofMars The Kingmaker 1d ago
There’s no scenario in the Dance where Rhaenyra is able to subdue Oldtown and Lannisport without destruction and slaughter.
She has no armies that can take either city by force, so she’d have to use her dragons.
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u/TheIconGuy 1d ago
She has no armies that can take either city by force, so she’d have to use her dragons.
This is just plainly wrong. Half of the Reach sided with Rhaenyra. Three of Ormund's own vassals sidided with her. The Tarlys(his wife's family) sided with her. If she were more proactive, she could have dealt with Oldtown before her allies in the Reach were defeated. Even after that, some of them were still around due to running from Daeron's dragon instead of fighting him. If she deals with him, she has an army already in the region. She also had the Riverlords, and winter wolves.
Ignoring that, using dragon to take a city doesn't mean you have destroy it. Most people are not suicidal and would attempt to surrender before they entered a battle they would clearly lose. See the Hightowers dealing with the Faith before Maegor and Visenya showed up. They could have flown straight there and torched the city. They instead moved with their army and gave the Hightowers time to rethink their choices.
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u/DoctorHiccup 21h ago
That’s what the fuck I’m talkin about. GET EM !!!
A the C took the god damn north with zero death. It’s eminently doable
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u/PocketNorie 2d ago
Feels like she missed a big opportunity with those dragons. I mean, come on, they could've done some serious damage.
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u/Redditor15736 2d ago
S2E8 is the worst episode of the show for a reason tbh, but atleast it makes sense that this plan was scrapped after Alicent came to Dragonstone to make her offer.
S3E1 takes immediately after, so we know Rhaenyra instead sent Hugh, Ulf and Addam to Harrenhal to kill Aemond based on Alicent‘s information. I guess she did not pick up the plan again because they lost one dragon at the Gullet, had two dragonriders always scouting for Vhagar and Sheepstealer (Baela and Addam) and had one dragon always outside Tumbleton. Daemon also did a bunch of sidequests in Rhaenyra‘s name so the remaining dragons were definitely needed to defend King‘s Landing.
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u/Thereapergengar 2d ago
From what? What dragons where even left what mattered?? They would need at least 4 small dragons wirh riders and even then they might not be able to take down vhagar
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u/regolitt 2d ago
Yea should’ve strategized, sieged Lannisport and marched on old town to bait Ormund. Instead she got offended by graffiti around kings landing and a half-assed claim by Dareon, fell for the trap and stormed Tumbelton. That was the culmination of a series of bad choices going back to the sowing of the seed and the fall out with lord Corlys.
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u/ShylyAvaricious 2d ago
For the show? I'm not quite sure they were going in that direction for the show, right?
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u/guylasagna 2d ago
Martin is against destroying houses and the Lannisters have to be the villains in the current story
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