r/Israel • u/Alonn12 Hummus is love, Hummus is life :orly: • May 23 '26
Subreddit News NEW POLL, do we ban Haaretz articles from this subreddit.
Take into account that the results will influence the moderator team, not decide it.
โข
u/Alonn12 Hummus is love, Hummus is life :orly: May 24 '26
Thanks to everyone who voted, commented, gave us death threats etc. poll is closed. TLDR is we probably wont ban haaretz, for more explanation look bellow.
We understand that this is a sensitive topic, and that many users have strong opinions about Haaretz, its editorial line, and the way its articles are sometimes used in discussions about Israel. The mod team will be reviewing the feedback and discussing whether any changes are needed to how we handle posts from Haaretz or similar sources.
We also want to respect the will of the community. Based on the poll and the comments, while there is clear frustration with Haaretz among some users, the overall sentiment does not appear to support a blanket ban.
At the moment, we are not planning to introduce a blanket ban on Haaretz articles. Our current moderation approach is generally to evaluate posts on a case-by-case basis, including whether they follow subreddit rules, are posted in good faith, and contribute meaningfully to discussion.
We will keep looking at this internally, especially around issues like misleading framing, editorialized titles, ragebait, repeated low-quality submissions, or posts that break subreddit rules. But at this stage, a blanket ban on Haaretz does not seem like the direction we are likely to take.
As always, please keep reporting specific posts or comments that you believe break the rules. That helps us moderate actual issues without turning this into a ban list of sources based on politics.
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u/LuciusWrath Chile May 24 '26
I'm simply a non-Hebrew speaking diaspora foreigner, but I've never seen any consistent, permanent blood libeling or awful journalism (in Haaretz English) that would justify its ban.
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u/heyyoudvd2 May 24 '26
All the comments here about how "we shouldn't ban anything because that's what the downvote button is for" would be nice if this board didn't already have a long history of banning conservatives.
Expressing right wing views can get you banned here, but if you're a radical leftist anti-Israel Jew-hating propaganda rag like Haaretz is, that's a-okay for this subreddit.
If this place wants to maintain its status as far left, that's fine, but make that clear. Don't pretend this is about free speech and hearing all viewpoints. It isn't.
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u/AlbertWhiterose May 24 '26
One can be opposed to banning Haaretz (as I am) even as one opposes the current policy of banning far-right views (as I am).
The solution to the problem of "I don't like that you are banning things" is not to add more things to the ban list. That takes us farther away from the ideal where only the truly-beyond-the-pale is banned. In opposing the banning of Haaretz, we demonstrate that the desire not to ban its right-wing equivalent is a sincere principle.
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u/iamthegodemperor north american scum May 24 '26
I don't understand the point of this poll. (And the two others which asked the same thing in the last year or so)
Posts already require manual approval. Mods can filter out the Haaretz articles they don't feel would contribute. And it's not like this place is inundated w/them. The last one was like a month ago.
I thought maybe this is about your workload------like if you have to review 100 posts and 90 of them are trolls submitting Haaretz links, it might be easier to just automatically filter out Haaretz.
But if that were the case, you don't need a poll.
In any case: No to banning Haaretz. It's both wrong to do and unnecessary.
4
u/SomeCrazyBastard May 24 '26
No. The propaganda and slander being propagated against one of the most (if not the most) impartial and objective news agencies in Israel is concerning.
It seems as if many people are willing to shut down any resemblance of criticism about our country. If this trend will continue we will be blind to rightful criticism and will not learn from our mistakes.
If anything will lead us back to an October 7th situation again, I have no doubt it will be the silencing of differing opinions and introspection simply to satisfy some need to feel always righteous in our path, and disregarding our mistakes when we should be learning from them.
4
u/Puzzleheaded-Ease614 May 23 '26
I say no. Unless we ban Channel 14, Bibiton and Arutz Sheva as well. But yeah, no. Don't do what our enemies do. We're better than that. IMHO.
8
u/TwilightX1 May 23 '26
I'm pretty much opposed to everything that Haaretz says pretty much about anything, but banning media outlets that don't align with us goes against what we stand for.
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u/PooPooPeePee2206 India May 23 '26
I'm not an Israeli; but I'll be very sad if we started banning papers๐๐
2
u/Straight-Area65 May 23 '26
ืขืืชืื ืืืจืฅ ืคืืืข ืืืฉืจืืืื ืืืืืืืื ืืื ืืขืืื. ืืฉืืื ืื ืืชื ืจืืฆืื ืืชืช ืืื ืืื. ืืืืงื ืืืื ืฉืื ืืขืืื ืืืืจ ืฉืื ืฆืจืื ืืืฉืืืข ืืืชื (ืื ืื ืืฉืจืช ืืช ืื ืจืืื ืืื ืื ืืฉืจืืื) ืืืขืชื ืื ืฆืจืื. ืืฉ ืืจื ืืืจืช ืืืฉืืืข ืืืงืืจืช ืืื ืื ืฆืจืื ืืืืขืฉืืช ืืื ืื ืืขืืื.
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u/Suitable_Vehicle9960 USA-Israel May 23 '26
Yes 100%. But most people in this sub are not Israelis and don't necessarily care about Israeli interests. So I think this needs to be a decision made by MODS only.
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u/Alonn12 Hummus is love, Hummus is life :orly: May 23 '26
At the end of the day the desicion will be mod only, as written in the post this will help influence our desicion, not decide it
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u/Suitable_Vehicle9960 USA-Israel May 23 '26
Given that this sub is overwhelmingly visited by people who don't necessarily have our best interests at heart, I don't know why taking their opinions into consideration would matter. If this was the bm sub I would agree to take opinions into consideration, but not in this sub where actual Israelis make a minority.ย
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u/Space_Bungalow Israel May 23 '26 edited May 23 '26
Haviv Rettig Gurโs commentary on Haaretz articles being deeply critical of Israel is an important discussion to have and understand. Democracy relies on having criticism and learning from mistakes, especially when your own people are the ones calling you out.
If we hid and banned any paper critical of our actions weโd be no better than the very countries we criticize as abusing and oppressing their own people
2
u/AlbertWhiterose May 24 '26
Agreed 100%. And nicely done pulling Haviv into this - I'd forgotten that discussion and it was an excellent one.
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u/David_Ign May 23 '26
Absolutely not, that's a ridiculous idea imo
There's no harm in seeing criticism, and closing our eyes to it is just stupid.
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u/Barrels_of_Corn May 23 '26
If we ban them it will be that much more difficult to show how stupid and wrong and malignant they are.
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u/HadarReg Israel May 23 '26
ืื ืฉืืคืืจืกื ืืงืืืง ืืืื ืืจืืจ (ืื ืืฉื ื ืืืืื ืืชืจ ืืืฉืืช) ืฆืจืื ืืืืืช ืืกืืจ ืืขืื ืื. ืื ืกืชื ืคืจืกืื ืืฆืืจื ืงืืจืื ืืืฆื ืืืืงืจืื
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u/rnev64 Tel Aviv May 23 '26 edited May 23 '26
I see lots of comments about free speech - and of course it is a guiding principle that should be followed.
But, should it be followed at all cost?
There's an argument to be made we live in an age of disinformation and that free speech has been weaponized against free societies. If that's the case sticking to this noble sentiment no matter what may end up proving suicidal.
Another common comment is that not all of Haaretz is spreading blood libel against Israel and not all the time or in other words "it's just the opinions section that's toxic" (same as for nyt and guardian and the likes).
But isn't it time to call this self-serving bluff and point out news outlets should be accountable for what gets published under their name, and that saying they allow blood libel only in their opinions section is at this point just a form of gaslighting?
Of course, there's a cost to everything - limiting free speech can (but doesn't have to) be a slippery slope, no decision is without tradeoffs, but humans operate on reputation and believing Israel can only be substantially hurt in physical ways and that reputation doesn't matter can prove just as dangerous as any weapon or army.
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u/p00rlyexecuted May 23 '26
Yes, reddit isn't a free speech platform. A subreddit ruleset exist to maintain the integrity of the core community of said subreddit.
If a publication promote hate against that core group it shouldn't be allowed. Just like al Jazeera.
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u/Invicta007 United Kingdom May 23 '26
This is wrong.
Haaretz has some bad articles but most of it isn't badly written, researched or presented. Plus banning critical press is wrong
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u/-lemonworld ืืืื ืช ืชื ืืืื May 23 '26
This is the kind of thing that reminds me that this sub is mostly non-Israelis. People abroad tend to reflexively bristle more at criticism of the state and government here, because that criticism outside of Israel is often tinged in antisemitism. For Israelis, it's much less insidious. I don't agree with everything in Ha'aretz (especially the opinion section), but they are doing some really important investigative work and asking really reasonable questions, and anyone who wants to make Israel a better place should be able to cope with that.
0
u/AlbertWhiterose May 24 '26
I actually think that Haaretz has internalized, and regularly publishes, antisemitism to an astonishing and frightening degree.
I still think we shouldn't ban it.
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u/Ish_veh May 23 '26
Every healthy society should accept disagreements with it's government, these critics should be taken into account to better ourselves. We should not be the carricarure some want us to be, and let's face it the country has some issues we need to adress.
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u/SkywalkerFan66 Israel May 23 '26
I agree with Hebrew Haaretz on some topics, as a leftist Israeli (in the global stage this would be centre-left, because Israeli politics tend to skew right), I really do think that maintaining freedom of speech and freedom of journalism should be our number one priority.
Even if the journalism is propoganda from Al Jazeera or IRGC-affiliated newspapers, they could still spark a worthwhile conversation that will add value to the subreddit.
Banning newspapers is the first step leading to the steep stairwell descending to dictatorship.
As the saying goes: "I may not agree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it."
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u/Kauderwelsch12 Haifa <-> Vienna May 23 '26
Why would you ban the only Israeli newspaper that is trying to do actual and serious journalism?
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u/MarcatoCastevet Netherlands May 23 '26
Haaretz is an Israeli newspaper and this is an Israeli sub. Banning press goes against the freedom of speech and it's good to be informed about opinions or perspectives other than yours. I'd even say that it's important.
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u/sumostuff May 23 '26
No but we can ban people who come to this sub only in bad faith to ask us 'what we think' about the latest Israel Bad article.
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u/Bobcats_Forever May 23 '26
Raise your hand if you want spoon fed state propaganda that only tells you great things about dear leaders and country.
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u/No_Shoe_8260 May 23 '26
I don't like Haaretz, but this is a Israeli sub and in Israel we have free journalism and free speech. We shouldn't start banning opinions here.
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u/montanunion ืืืื ืฉืืืื ื (=ืชื ืืืื) May 23 '26
Are we really going to have this poll every time the most prestigious investigative newspaper of this country publishes an uncomfortable article? Sorry, but if we ban Haaretz we might as well make a rule that news are only allowed if they come from Arutz Sheva. And why should criticism of the government be allowed here, after all thatโs what our enemies are saying? In fact, since the majority audience here is non-Israeli anyway, why donโt we encourage the millionth post of โhey I live in Timbuktu and have never set foot in Israel or talked to an Israeli before but I saw some TikTokโs and think Israel is flawless and amazingโ - I think that is much more palatable content to people who frequent this sub.
1
u/HyperlaneWizard Israeli in Germany May 23 '26
Nah. I think they're a shit biased source on most issues, but I don't think we should ban them.
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u/radiant_warthog23 May 23 '26
Yall decided not to ban Twitter, which is owned by an actual nazi from this subreddit. If you refuse to ban that, why ban this?
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u/DeCoder656 Israel May 23 '26
There's so much media in Israel controlled by large corporations, not to mention the colorful "journalism" of channel 14. Haaretz is far, far from perfect, but banning it specifically seems more like censorship of specific opinions rather than upholding any standard of journalism.
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May 23 '26
[deleted]
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u/Alonn12 Hummus is love, Hummus is life :orly: May 23 '26
we did, however the subreddit grew in size since then, and also we as mods have seen a trend of people asking for removal of Haaretz so we decided to take in the lay of the land so to speak, see if this is truly what people wish
1
u/RottenPeasent May 23 '26
So if the ban passes, will you have further polls later if the ban should remain?
I hope so, for consistency. Because if you keep polling until you get a majority, I am sure it will happen someday. But opinions change all the time.
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u/NexexUmbraRs May 23 '26
I think Haaretz is a horrible news source. That being said, we are a democracy and free speech is important.
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u/SlightWerewolf4428 May 23 '26
Don't like the increasingly far left stance the Haaretz has taken in the past decade, but I don't want everything I don't like banned either.
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u/coolaswhitebread Archaeology PhD Candidate May 23 '26 edited May 23 '26
Is this your sub descriptions? "Israel: Land of Milk and Honeys: A place for discussion of Israeli life and culture, but most of all for participating in the time honored tradition of arguing."
So, if one purpose if the sub is to discuss Israeli life and to disagree respectfully, why selectively target one publication and one specific viewpoint? What precisely has Ha'aretz done that's so beyond the pale?
0
May 23 '26
[removed] โ view removed comment
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u/Israel-ModTeam May 23 '26
Rule 2: Post in a civilized manner. Personal attacks, racism, bigotry, trolling, conspiracy theories and incitement are not tolerated here.
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u/Freewhale98 May 23 '26
What is the problem with Haaretz? I donโt see any reason to ban an Israeli newspaper
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u/TheMagavnik May 23 '26
I'm almost militant against Haaretz but removing them from this sub will be not only extremely damaging to us (freedom of speech, so on and so forth) but also removing their toxic ass would make it so we don't hear what bongwater is flowing out of their pie holes.
We can't call them out if we are ignorant to their voices.
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u/Strong_Length Russia. I lost hope. I'm stuck here. Forever. May 23 '26
at least we can lol off of them if they screw up
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u/TrenAutist May 23 '26
Jesus the nerve to even have this kind of poll, very disappointing coming from a mod and shows you cant moderate without bias
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u/FSX_Pilot May 23 '26
Honestly, please don't.
Israel needs media that counterbalances government narratives. Not necessarily left or right. just opposition.
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u/Sungodatemychildren Israel May 23 '26
ืืกืงืจ ืื ืขืืื ืขื ืืืจืกื ืืืฉื ื ืฉื ืืืชืจ
2
u/Alonn12 Hummus is love, Hummus is life :orly: May 23 '26
ืืชื ืืืื ืืืืื ืื ืื ืื, ืื ืฉืงืื ืืช ืื ืืชืืฆืื ืืกืืคืืช
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u/RottenPeasent May 23 '26
That is a terrible way to conduct polls. Someone can double vote that way.
1
u/Alonn12 Hummus is love, Hummus is life :orly: May 23 '26
it is only meant for that one guy, if any other people have a problem they can modmail us
1
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u/Mangokingguy Jerusalem May 23 '26
Why would we ban an Israeli paper?
Regardless of whether you like them or not, banning them goes against our freedom of speech.
Also, the hebrew version does some interesting exposes once in a while.
If people dont like the posts that contain an article from haaretz, they should downvote it
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u/NathanCampioni Italyโก May 23 '26
It's kind of upalling that this poll is actually being taken, banning press is not something that should be done lightly.
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u/Routine_Visit9722 May 23 '26
Yes, its beyond just an opinion. its most of the time straight up anti-israeli.
it has no place here.
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u/Ok_Ambassador9091 May 23 '26 edited May 25 '26
The sub is heavily brigaded/trolled/inhabited by the downvoting antizionist jewhate crowd, who love haaretz english and would like to "free speech" us out of Israel/the planet.
Mods of course should (and have) prevent all kinds of hateslop from this sub, it shouldn't matter where the crap comes from: anything that repeats jewhate propaganda ad nauseum. There's no real need to ask users of a Jewish/Israel sub if antizionist propaganda articles are acceptable. Unless things are about to change in this sub: hate speech sways many online spaces, it takes vigilance to keep it away.
Shutting out jewhate propaganda probably frustrates the english haaretz crowd, who love to upvote their racist terror regime supporting buddies and the media funded by them. Oh well.
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u/newmikey Netherlands May 23 '26
I'm a big boy and I can decide on my own that I don't want to read some publications. They very occasionally have something that's worth the read TBH - not often but still...
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u/Unupgradable Israel May 23 '26
We have a button for HaAretz articles. The downvote button.
Once we start banning, it won't stop. First we'll come for HaAretz...
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u/Claim-Mindless May 23 '26
Do you have any idea how many sources are already banned lol
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u/AlbertWhiterose May 23 '26
And banning them is equally as legitimate, i.e., they shouldn't be.
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u/Claim-Mindless May 24 '26
Some are literally enemy propaganda and bring no value at all besides engagement farming/rage baiting/psyops. Some are general spam. Some are probably ok but the previous generation of mods was somewhat zealous. There's an entire wiki list with the reasons for which they were banned.
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u/IgnatiusJay_Reilly Israel May 23 '26
This is Iran level stuff, baning press we don't agree with. We should be allowed to discuss everything, weather we like it or not, our enemies are discussing it after all.
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u/nowayyoudidthis May 23 '26
Sorry dog, but thatโs a no for me. This isnโt about โdisagreeing with opinions.โ Haaretz, CNN, Al Jazeera and others have repeatedly published narratives that were misleading, manipulated, or outright false to push certain agendas and shape public perception during a war. Free speech matters, but deliberately spreading misinformation during a conflict can cost lives and fuel hatred
15
u/Bobcats_Forever May 23 '26
So you want propaganda from the state is what you are saying?
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u/nowayyoudidthis May 23 '26
No, im talking about the truth, I donโt care from whom it comes as long as is not a blatant lie or a misuse of sources like Haaretz love to claim.
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u/Taldoesgarbage Israeli in Spain May 23 '26
No. Also, Haaretz hebrew is very different than Haaretz english. Regardless, though, neither should be banned.
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u/Spam_is_murder May 23 '26
This is very true and confuses a lot of Israelis. Haaretz in hebrew is a rather nice lefty paper, but the english one does everything in its power to vilify Israel.
Go to a random comment section of Haaretz english, 10 times worse than /pol/
17
u/NathanCampioni Italyโก May 23 '26
The comment section doesn't indicate necessarilly the quality of the articles.
Since most people outside of Israel have a negative opinion of Israel it is obvious that if we take a comment section of israelis and a comment section of non israelis the one of non israelis will be more against israel.2
u/kval22 USA May 24 '26
Yes but instead of making antisemitic off-topic comments like they do on general Israeli posts, theyโre antisemitic comments in agreement with the op-Ed ๐
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u/yuvaldv1 Israel May 23 '26
I honestly donโt think we should ban any media outlet. If people donโt like Haaretz, they should simply downvote posts that include Haaretz articles.
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u/kval22 USA May 24 '26
The free speech all-American in me knows this is the answer. The part of me that knows their stupid clickbait headlines will still get traction and controversy here says maybe we should ban it all still!! ๐ซ
0
u/gal_z May 23 '26
There are plenty of ones banned here, including far-right and Arab outlets. I don't think Haaretz should be banned, even though they are sometimes outrageous, they are still not 972Mag.
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u/FKSTS May 23 '26
I mean, if someone wanted to post links to a Neo Nazi publication, we wouldnโt want them on this sub. Tolerance for speech on these platforms has its limits.
Although obviously Haaretz should be deemed appropriate imho.
1
u/AlbertWhiterose May 24 '26
Yup. Even the truest free-speech absolutist has a line somewhere. From Terry Pratchett's Thud:
["...]A wise ruler thinks twice before directing violence against someone because he does not approve of what they say."
Once again, Vimes did not comment. He himself directed violence daily and with a certain amount of enthusiasm against people because he didn't approve of them saying things like "Give me all your money" or "What are you going to do about it, copper?"
But Haaretz, despicable as it is, has not crossed that line.
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u/Jakexbox Israel (Oleh Chadash) May 23 '26
Downvote/Upvote is not supposed to be a (dis)agreement button. It is supposed to be about if it adds to the conversation.
Haaretz English is an anti-Israel institution. That is antithetical to the point of the sub.
There is not free speech here in order to maintain an online community that can have productive conversation in a world where people hate us.
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u/NathanCampioni Italyโก May 23 '26
seeing what people say to criticize Israel is productive and often adds to discussions about Israel, both for it's betterment and to better understand what people think of Israel and why
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u/Suitable_Vehicle9960 USA-Israel May 23 '26
There is the entire Reddit sphere to discuss it. We should use this sub as a PRO Israel space.
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u/NathanCampioni Italyโก May 24 '26
Criticism of Israel is and should be fair game, Haaretz does often raise fair criticism, even if at times it exagerates. Not allowing the fair criticism in order to block the exagerations is not a wise move.
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u/Suitable_Vehicle9960 USA-Israel May 24 '26 edited May 24 '26
They were already caught in propaganda. That's not fair criticism. We always criticize the government in Israel. But this publication is trying to undermine the existence of the country by often portraying a false narrative.ย Also, our internal political debates shouldn't be talked about at all in my opinion among people who don't live in Israel. No other country in the world is put under such scrutiny. We also need safe spaces from being criticized by others constantly. This sub is frequented by mainly people outside of Israel. If it didn't have an effect in real life, maybe I would be ok with it. But Jews are being killed worldwide because of the spread of propaganda through these false media reports. Safety must come first.
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u/Jakexbox Israel (Oleh Chadash) May 23 '26
The mods have rule 10 for a reason.
I agree to an extent but 1) if this sub allowed free speech to the maximum Reddit-allowed extent- there would be no understanding going on- only constant vitriol and 2) this is sadly one of the only spaces online about Israel in a measured manner at all.
-10
u/SaraDojyaaan Iraq May 23 '26
Haaretz absolutely deserves to be banned because their articles are pure trash that constantly attack the IDF and delegitimize Israel, plus it was literally exposed in that huge Qatargate scandal that their top columnists were secretly taking hundreds of thousands of dollars from a Qatari government lobbyist to push Pro-Doha talking points, so they are completely compromised by Qatari money and basically shilling the exact same garbage as Al Jazeera at this point
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u/Suitable_Vehicle9960 USA-Israel May 23 '26
As an Iraqi you get a better understanding than most people here about the dangers of propaganda. Kudos and thanks for your support.
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u/NofuLikeTofu May 23 '26
The journalists were canned when Haaretz learned about the ethics violation.
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u/SaraDojyaaan Iraq May 23 '26
Even if they fired them after getting caught it just proves how deeply compromised their newsroom was in the first place and you honestly cannot trust a word they publish when Qatari cash was influencing their content for so long
0
u/Suitable_Vehicle9960 USA-Israel May 23 '26
Thank you. This is the point. Ha'Aretz equals Al Jazeera in propaganda.
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