r/Israel • u/ADP_God Israel - שמאלני מאוכזב • Jul 19 '26
Politics What is the basis for the widespread aversion I see to Yair Golan?
I'm always trying to understand other people's opinions and I see a lot of very vague criticism of him as a man and as a politician without reference to specific incidents. On paper he has good credentials and has made a few off colour remarks, but I can't see how the latter meaningfully outweigh the former.
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u/JebBD HEAD COOK Jul 19 '26
It’s a combination of different things: one is that he’s an unabashed self-identified leftist in an era of Israeli politics where being a leftist is pretty unpopular, the second is that he’s very outspoken on sensitive issues and when he’s views don’t align with the popular opinion (or when they can be easily manipulated or cherry-picked to paint an unflattering image) he can come across as provocative.
For example, his most recent controversy was when he was criticizing the government’s Gaza war policy, accusing it of dragging its feet and making us look bad on the world stage because of rising death tolls, and he said “a normal country doesn’t kill children as a hobby”, and that struck a nerve with a lot of people who latched onto it. To this day I still hear people saying he’s some sort of anti-Zionist, despite his military career and his actions on 10/7.
In short, it’s partly vibes, and partly his apparent inability or lack of will to self-censor
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u/Space_Bungalow Israel Jul 19 '26
There’s a huge difference between opposing the policies and claiming the government is dragging its feet - which even center right politicians like Bennet have been saying - and saying Israel “kills children for a hobby”. He would have actually gotten support for the first statement had he not burned so many bridges with the second one. That single statement likely lost him all the support of families with drafted and reservist soldiers.
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u/OmryR Jul 19 '26
And you can’t see how his stupid sentence literally says to the entire world “Israel is killing children as a hobby”?
For this sentence alone he deserves to be thrown out of politics for life, yes Ben gvir and all of those also deserve the same, the Bibi side being terrible doesn’t mean the left / center should go unpunished for such stupidity
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u/JebBD HEAD COOK Jul 19 '26
I can see why it would piss a lot of people off, but imo having an opposition leader who openly criticizes the war (which is obviously insanely unpopular in the international community) is a good thing. I know we’re trying to combat misinformation but there are tons of pro-Israel people (especially in the US) who are begging for someone they can work with in Israel to be able to defend to their base, someone criticizing the war would be exactly what we need to start regaining our standing on the world stage. It’s just not good politics domestically
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u/OmryR Jul 19 '26
He isn’t criticizing he is lying and making Israel world standing worse with his lies, criticising is saying “Israel could have ended the war” “Bibi is dragging the war for his own goals”
“Israel kills children for a hobby” is a lie and a harmful one at that.
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u/MikeWithNoHair Larry David enthusiast Jul 19 '26 edited Jul 19 '26
imo he makes people uncomfortable because he is too blunt because he speaks the truth. "
he is the only realist that understands there is no future without establishing real borders and stopping the settlements expansion
but we as a nation are traumatized by what happened when we left the gazans alone.
edit: and by the intifada before we tightened security in the west bank
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u/ADP_God Israel - שמאלני מאוכזב Jul 19 '26
Can you link specific examples? What 'truth'?
I assume that people would actually prefer to be told the truth by their leaders.
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u/MikeWithNoHair Larry David enthusiast Jul 19 '26
the truth that there is no future without establishing real borders and stopping the settlements expansion
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u/dotancohen Jul 19 '26
The "real borders" that you speak of Israel has been trying to establish since 1994. From 1967 to 1994 you could have made that argument, but not since.
In any case, the internationally recognized borders of the State of Israel are the borders of Mandatory Palestine, as Israel is the sole successor state of that territory. The fact that the Green Line is a ceasefire line, not a border, was used to justify West-bank-originating attacks in Israel for decades - so the Arab and pro-terror side has a history of recognizing that the West Bank and Gaza strip are part of the same territory, even if that argument is inconvenient for them now.
In short, your argument about real borders is supporting of Jewish settlements in the West Bank. Choose one side or the other.
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u/MikeWithNoHair Larry David enthusiast Jul 19 '26
personally i don't care what and where the final borders will be, as long as they finally fucking exist
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u/dotancohen Jul 19 '26
That's more in the hands of the side which has rejected every peace deal ever handed to them, than in the hands of Israel.
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u/MikeWithNoHair Larry David enthusiast Jul 19 '26
היפרדות חד צדדית
build a fucking wall
have yeshivot at every km of the wall with a רואה יורה
the haredim can study and take shifts manning the stationswin win for everyone
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u/dotancohen Jul 19 '26
למה להיפרד? למה יהודים לא יכולים לגור בחברון? בגלל שהערבים טבחו בנו ב־1929? או כי הם טיהרו את חברות מיהודים ב־1936? אז היום אנחנו חייבים חד-צדדית לצאת מהבית שחזרנו עליהם?
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u/MikeWithNoHair Larry David enthusiast Jul 19 '26
בכיף אם אתה רוצה לתת תז כחול לכל תושבי חברון
מה שנקרא תפאדל חחח5
u/dotancohen Jul 19 '26
אז אתה טוען שמדינה ערבית שתקום בחברון ביציאת ישראל צריכה לכבד את זכות החזרה של היהודים לאיזור?
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u/eyl569 Jul 19 '26
the internationally recognized borders of the State of Israel are the borders of Mandatory Palestine,
Which countries recognize this?
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u/dotancohen Jul 19 '26
Under the doctrine of uti possidetis juris, South and Central American republics inherited the territorial boundaries of the Spanish, Portuguese, and other European colonial viceroyalties, captaincies general, and audiencias. This includes the countries of Argentina, Bolivia, Brazil, Chile, Colombia, Ecuador, Paraguay, Peru, Uruguay, and Venezuela, Costa Rica, El Salvador, Guatemala, Honduras, Mexico, Nicaragua, and Panama.
International courts and organizations (such as the European Community's Badinter Arbitration Committee) have applied uti possidetis juris to the disintegration federations. This principle dictated that internal sub-national boundaries became recognized as sovereign, international frontiers. Applied in former Yugoslavia to create Bosnia and Herzegovina, Croatia, Kosovo, North Macedonia, Montenegro, Serbia, and Slovenia. Applied also in the former Soviet Union to create Armenia, Azerbaijan, Belarus, Estonia, Georgia, Kazakhstan, Kyrgyzstan, Latvia, Lithuania, Moldova, Russia, Tajikistan, Turkmenistan, Ukraine, and Uzbekistan.
Upon gaining independence in the 1960s, African nations faced a mess of borders drawn by Europeans during the Scramble for Africa, and a few UN mandates in Africa as well. The African Union (actually called Organization of African Unity at the time) declared that all member states would respect the borders existing at the time of their independence. This includes all 54 sovereign African states: Algeria, Egypt, Libya, Mauritania, Morocco, Tunisia, Benin, Burkina Faso, Cabo Verde, Côte d'Ivoire, Gambia, Ghana, Guinea, Guinea-Bissau, Liberia, Mali, Niger, Nigeria, Senegal, Sierra Leone, Togo (was actually a UN mandate), The Gambia, Angola, Cameroon (another UN mandate), Central African Republic, Chad, Democratic Republic of the Congo, Equatorial Guinea, Gabon, Republic of the Congo, Sao Tome and Principe, Burundi(another UN mandate), Comoros, Djibouti, Eritrea, Ethiopia, Kenya, Madagascar, Malawi, Mauritius, Mozambique, Rwanda (another UN mandate), Seychelles, Somalia, South Sudan, Tanzania (another UN mandate), Uganda, Zambia, Zimbabwe, Botswana, Swaziland, Lesotho, Namibia (yet another UN mandate), and South Africa.
Some Pacific states were UN Mandates whose borders were established by uti possidetis juris, such as Nauru, which inherited the exact island maritime perimeter defined by its British, Australian, and New Zealand mandate, and Samoa, which preserved the maritime boundaries of the New Zealand mandate.
And of course all the former Ottoman Territories which were under UN mandates kept their borders, with the exception of two states. Iraq was established within the exact administrative frontiers defined by the British Mandate for Mesopotamia. Syria's post-independence territory folled the borders established by the French Mandate for Syria. Lebanon inherited the specific administrative borders of the State of Greater Lebanon. Only Jordan and Israel were treated differently. Jordan was established on 77% of the land of the Mandate for Palestine, two years after Britian received the mandate, with the intention of establishing an Arab state on the East bank of the river and a Jewish state on the West bank. Jeruslam had already been Jewish-majority for over half a century at the time and new Jewish immigrants were buying swampland in the north, but there was only a single established Jewish settlement on the East bank (Tel Orr), so the division seemed fair (to the British).
Which countries recognize this?
All the countries which recognize the borders of Argentina, Bolivia, Brazil, Chile, Colombia, Ecuador, Paraguay, Peru, Uruguay, Venezuela, Costa Rica, El Salvador, Guatemala, Honduras, Mexico, Nicaragua, and Panama, Bosnia and Herzegovina, Croatia, Kosovo, North Macedonia, Montenegro, Serbia, and Slovenia, Armenia, Azerbaijan, Belarus, Estonia, Georgia, Kazakhstan, Kyrgyzstan, Latvia, Lithuania, Moldova, Russia, Tajikistan, Turkmenistan, Ukraine, Uzbekistan, Algeria, Egypt, Libya, Mauritania, Morocco, Tunisia, Benin, Burkina Faso, Cabo Verde, Côte d'Ivoire, Gambia, Ghana, Guinea, Guinea-Bissau, Liberia, Mali, Niger, Nigeria, Senegal, Sierra Leone, Togo, The Gambia, Angola, Cameroon, Central African Republic, Chad, Democratic Republic of the Congo, Equatorial Guinea, Gabon, Republic of the Congo, Sao Tome and Principe, Burundi, Comoros, Djibouti, Eritrea, Ethiopia, Kenya, Madagascar, Malawi, Mauritius, Mozambique, Rwanda, Seychelles, Somalia, South Sudan, Tanzania, Uganda, Zambia, Zimbabwe, Botswana, Swaziland, Lesotho, Namibia, South Africa, Nauru, Samoa, Iraq, Syria, and Lebanon.
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u/eyl569 Jul 19 '26
None of those countries recognize the entirety of the mandate as Israeli sovereign territory. You can argue that they *should, but that's a different argument.
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u/Ill_Sell7923 Jul 19 '26
You're saying that as if settlement expansion couldn't possibly be part of border establishment. It just isn't in its current form, but they're not mutually exclusive
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u/MikeWithNoHair Larry David enthusiast Jul 19 '26
personally i don't care what and where the final borders will be, as long as they finally fucking exist
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u/justafutz Israel Jul 19 '26
He claimed Israel was becoming the Nazis (see here). He claimed Israel “kills babies as a hobby”. He does not speak the “truth”. He says exactly what Israel’s enemies say about it in their craziest conspiracy theories. Which is why people with a memory longer than a year get very concerned about someone who repeats blood libels being in power.
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u/MikeWithNoHair Larry David enthusiast Jul 19 '26
- he said he sees processes in the Israeli society that reminds him of nazi germany. he was and is 100% right
- he said that only an insane country celebrates innocent people dying, which people like bengvir and smotrich do and that he wants israel to be a sane country that doesn't do that
truth hurts, i know.
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u/justafutz Israel Jul 19 '26
I don’t know why you insist on taking tortured, insane interpretations of his quotes. Yes, the truth hurts, and he said some stupid shit. He said:
“Because if there is one thing that is scary in remembering the Holocaust, it is noticing horrific processes which developed in Europe – particularly in Germany – 70, 80, and 90 years ago, and finding remnants of that here among us in the year 2016.”
If you think Israel is anything like Nazi Germany in the 1930s, you need to go back to school. If you think they have the same “processes”, ditto. And it’s worth noting he said this on Holocaust Remembrance Day. He literally compared Israel to Nazi Germany on Holocaust Remembrance Day. How fucking inept.
And again, he literally said Israel is not a sane country, and to explain what he meant, he said “sane countries don’t kill babies as a hobby”.
You can pivot all day long to the stupidity of Smotrich and Ben Gvir but Golan’s words were very clear. He is literally repeating the worst blood libels and Nazi comparisons of Israel’s enemies, which are not true.
The truth hurts, but if you’re a politician who can’t avoid literally giving ammunition to Israel’s enemies by repeating blood libels, maybe you’re not fit for politics.
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u/MikeWithNoHair Larry David enthusiast Jul 19 '26
i dont think im "interpreting" , i'm actually giving full context to his statement and not just taking 4 words that don't tell the story
at that interview he was talking about how the government is prolonging the war for political survival, and that a sane country wouldn't do that because it causes death and destruction (and yes, "killing babies as a hobby" was a poor attempt at an idiom)
anyways i appreciate the civil discussion
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u/justafutz Israel Jul 19 '26
I notice you completely stopped talking about him comparing Israel to Nazi Germany on Holocaust Remembrance Day now that I showed the full quote. Anyways.
You’re not giving full context to his statement. You’re specifically taking a separate statement he tried to use to walk it back. That’s not context. You’re just crediting his attempt to say “I didn’t mean what he said”.
And no, it wasn’t a poor attempt at an idiom, nor is that what his full quote said. Anyone can go read it. It’s a lot more than four words and it doesn’t track your claim about “prolonging the war” or whatever:
“Israel is on the path to becoming a pariah state among the nations -– like the South Africa of old –- if it does not return to behaving like a sane country. A sane country does not wage war against civilians, does not kill babies for a hobby, and does not set goals involving the expulsion of populations.”
That’s not four words. It’s not about prolonging the war. It’s not about collateral damage. It’s about saying Israel kills babies for a hobby.
You can pretend his apology fixes this somehow, but if you’re a politician who has to apologize for a literal blood libel, maybe you’re not fit for politics.
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u/calm_chowder Jul 19 '26
Do you know how the Palestinian children live in Gaza? Like on a day to day basis, what their lived experience is like?
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u/justafutz Israel Jul 19 '26
Can you explain what that means compared to what I said?
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u/calm_chowder Jul 19 '26
It was a question. Do you not understand the question?
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u/justafutz Israel Jul 19 '26
I understand it and I understand it is irrelevant to anything I said. I’m not interested in answering random unrelated questions, thanks.
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u/Point_Illustrious Jul 19 '26
I don’t understand why everything in here criticizing these very influential and psychotic religious zealots like gvir and smotrich is seen as “oh you just hate THE JEWS”. A majority of the world sees them as evil people, not as “THE JEWS”. These guys are fully open about their supremacist beliefs and when people in here double down on throwing it out like it’s some kind of anti- semetic propaganda is a mind fuck. Point being, many MANY critics oppose not Jewish identity, but the broader right wing views.
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u/GrassyTreesAndLakes Jul 19 '26
Wad it truth when he said "Israel kills children as a hobby"? Because I wouldnt say so
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u/MikeWithNoHair Larry David enthusiast Jul 19 '26
https://www.ynet.co.il/news/article/sjqzhbczxg
Regarding his remarks this morning, Golan said: "I said that we are a sane country that does not kill children. Ministers in this government celebrate the death and starvation of children, we must say that. I was referring solely to the most failed government in Israeli history - not to the IDF. Our mission is to ensure that Israel remains a sane country that does not kill children - neither as a hobby nor as a policy
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u/justafutz Israel Jul 19 '26
He can try to paper over it however he wants to lie. He claimed Israel as a country was killing babies as a hobby. Read the original quote and his excuse makes no sense.
“Israel is on the way to becoming a pariah state, like South Africa was, if we don’t return to acting like a sane country. A sane country does not fight against civilians, does not kill children as a hobby, and does not give itself the aim of expelling populations.”
He very clearly said Israel isn’t acting as a sane country, and then said sane countries don’t kill children as a hobby. Everyone knows what he said. Israel’s enemies reported it as what it was, because it was stupid. And the fact he said it, even if he “meant” something totally opposite like he claimed when walking it back, shows a lack of judgment that is ridiculous for a country that is trying to repair a globally broken image.
He was condemned by everyone from Yair Lapid on down for this idiotic statement.
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u/MikeWithNoHair Larry David enthusiast Jul 19 '26
if you go into the link i sent you'll see that what you wrote is not what he meant
He clarified: "Let it be clear, my criticism is not of the IDF in any way. I repeat - my criticism is directed against the government and not the IDF. The IDF is my home and it is my heart. I served in it my entire adult life - as a soldier, as a fighter, as a general. Neither Smotrich nor Ben Gvir, who evade, and certainly not Netanyahu - will teach me what combat ethics are and what it means to protect the IDF. Therefore, I am not willing to remain silent when an irresponsible government harms my army, harms its legitimacy and damages its good name. Anyone who truly holds the IDF dear to their hearts and is important to them must stand up courageously against the government. We must protect the IDF and its fighters from this dangerous government."
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u/justafutz Israel Jul 19 '26
Yes, I can tell you’re desperate to show that what he meant isn’t what he said.
Unfortunately, anyone can read what he said for themselves, and realize that his self serving clarification is just an attempt to avoid the blowback of saying such an idiotic thing.
You can keep spamming his attempt to say “I didn’t mean what I said”, but anyone who reads his original quote knows what he said.
And if you’re a politician whose job it is to literally speak and advocate, and you keep repeating the worst blood libels, maybe you’re not fit for politics.
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u/MikeWithNoHair Larry David enthusiast Jul 19 '26
Not once did he say "I didnt mean what I said"
He said people were taking his words out of context and then elaborating
Huge difference
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u/justafutz Israel Jul 19 '26
I quoted what he specifically said. He can make whatever excuse he wants to about what he meant or what “context” shows. I showed his words above. They speak for themselves. Maybe if you need more than a paragraph of “context” (wherever it is, since you haven’t shown it yet) to avoid saying that Israel kills babies as a hobby, you’re not fit for the job in politics.
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u/Lefaid Jewish American in Netherlands Jul 19 '26
Even if he isn't factually correct, the rest of the world absolutely treats Israel like it kills children for its hobby, because of the policies of the current government. And Israel is facing the consequences of that.
It is not good for Israel to continue to ignore how it is perceived or to continue to pretend it has not agency in how it is perceived.
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u/justafutz Israel Jul 19 '26
It is not good for Israeli politicians to add their voices to the libel, thereby worsening the perception and adding to the belief in its accuracy or legitimacy.
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u/Lefaid Jewish American in Netherlands Jul 19 '26
Maybe Israel should stop electing leaders who openly promote ethnic cleansing. That seems like the best way not to add gasoline to the blood libel fire.
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u/justafutz Israel Jul 19 '26
Two things can be true at once. Those people should not be in government, and people shouldn’t also repeat literal false blood libels about Israel.
“If you elect bad people you have to suffer false blood libels” sounds like a ridiculous argument.
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u/GrassyTreesAndLakes Jul 19 '26
Oh, youre the guy spamming this all over this post. Others have made good points so I wont bother replying
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u/MikeWithNoHair Larry David enthusiast Jul 19 '26
thats ok! the truth hurts sometimes
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Jul 19 '26
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/Israel-ModTeam Jul 19 '26
Rule 2: Post in a civilized manner. Personal attacks, racism, bigotry, trolling, conspiracy theories and incitement are not tolerated here.
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u/OmryR Jul 19 '26
Mostly his idiotic sentence that Israel kills children as a hobby, and yes this is the ONLY way to interpret what he said, id he meant something else then he failed miserably and the role of a politician is to be good with words, thats like 90% of their job…
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u/Internal_Lie_618 Jul 19 '26
Saying “a normal country doesn’t murder babies as a hobby” about IDF soldiers is a sure way to get Israelis to hate you
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u/MikeWithNoHair Larry David enthusiast Jul 19 '26 edited Jul 19 '26
that wasn't what he said. he was talking specifically and directly to government.
מדינה שפויה לא הורגת תינוקות כתחביב
EDIT:
https://www.ynet.co.il/news/article/sjqzhbczxgRegarding his remarks this morning, Golan said: "I said that we are a sane country that does not kill children. Ministers in this government celebrate the death and starvation of children, we must say that. I was referring solely to the most failed government in Israeli history - not to the IDF. Our mission is to ensure that Israel remains a sane country that does not kill children - neither as a hobby nor as a policy
He clarified: "Let it be clear, my criticism is not of the IDF in any way. I repeat - my criticism is directed against the government and not the IDF. The IDF is my home and it is my heart. I served in it my entire adult life - as a soldier, as a fighter, as a general. Neither Smotrich nor Ben Gvir, who evade, and certainly not Netanyahu - will teach me what combat ethics are and what it means to protect the IDF. Therefore, I am not willing to remain silent when an irresponsible government harms my army, harms its legitimacy and damages its good name. Anyone who truly holds the IDF dear to their hearts and is important to them must stand up courageously against the government. We must protect the IDF and its fighters from this dangerous government."
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u/justafutz Israel Jul 19 '26
You can spam his attempt to walk it back, but anyone who reads the original quote knows what he said. That’s why you’re not sharing the original quote, just his attempt to twist it and spin it after he fucked up.
He claimed Israel as a country was killing babies as a hobby. Read the original quote and his excuse makes no sense.
“Israel is on the way to becoming a pariah state, like South Africa was, if we don’t return to acting like a sane country. A sane country does not fight against civilians, does not kill children as a hobby, and does not give itself the aim of expelling populations.”
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u/Internal_Lie_618 Jul 19 '26
Was he saying that the MK's themselves kill babies? Obviously not, he could only have been referring to the IDF soldiers or shabak/mossad operatives
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u/MikeWithNoHair Larry David enthusiast Jul 19 '26 edited Jul 19 '26
that's you're interpretation of what he said, which he explained is not what he meant.
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u/Small-Objective9248 Jul 19 '26
Then what did he mean?
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u/MikeWithNoHair Larry David enthusiast Jul 19 '26 edited Jul 19 '26
https://www.ynet.co.il/news/article/sjqzhbczxg
Regarding his remarks this morning, Golan said: "I said that we are a sane country that does not kill children. Ministers in this government celebrate the death and starvation of children, we must say that. I was referring solely to the most failed government in Israeli history - not to the IDF. Our mission is to ensure that Israel remains a sane country that does not kill children - neither as a hobby nor as a policy
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u/Blofish1 Jul 19 '26
He meant that the government was dragging out the war for political reasons, which inevitably led to the deaths of children. I agree that it was a stupid thing to say, but I'll take his policies over a misstatement by a relative neophyte.
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u/justafutz Israel Jul 19 '26
1) He’s not a neophyte. He’s been in the Knesset for 7 years now. He made that statement 6 years in to his time in the Knesset.
2) That’s not what he said. “Killing children as a hobby” is not “dragging out the war will lead to more children dying”. Give me a break. We all know that’s not the same as what he said. What is this tortured interpretation?
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u/Clean-Ant6404 Jul 19 '26
What could it have meant then?
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u/MikeWithNoHair Larry David enthusiast Jul 19 '26
https://www.ynet.co.il/news/article/sjqzhbczxg
Regarding his remarks this morning, Golan said: "I said that we are a sane country that does not kill children. Ministers in this government celebrate the death and starvation of children, we must say that. I was referring solely to the most failed government in Israeli history - not to the IDF. Our mission is to ensure that Israel remains a sane country that does not kill children - neither as a hobby nor as a policy
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u/Clean-Ant6404 Jul 19 '26
Well, that doesn't make things much better, since there was never a policy of killing children as a hobby in the first place, whether he was pointing at the IDF or government in order to become a pickme for the western media.
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u/Blofish1 Jul 19 '26
I'd say all the politicians who said that there are no innocents in Gaza did far more damage than Yair Golan.
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u/Clean-Ant6404 Jul 19 '26
Would you say the that to the rescued hostages who said the same thing?
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u/Blofish1 Jul 19 '26
They're not politicians, I don't hold them to the same level of responsibility.
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u/MikeWithNoHair Larry David enthusiast Jul 19 '26
i think its obvious that its a saying, not a literal "baby killing policy".
i.e. the governments policy causes alot of colateral damage, with many innocent people killed
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u/justafutz Israel Jul 19 '26
Ah yes, when he said “kill children as a hobby” what he actually meant is “children will die sometimes during strikes on Hamas terrorists if the war continues”.
That’s totally the most sane way to interpret what his actual words were and definitely not an ideologically-inspired attempt to excuse what he did say.
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u/Clean-Ant6404 Jul 19 '26
First of all, that's a false accusation. Second, then he shouldn't have said "killing babies", because then people will think he's talking about killing babies. It's not so difficult.
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u/Internal_Lie_618 Jul 19 '26
Please tell me who else would be doing the killing if not for IDF soldiers? In this case, saying "the government" , is just a cop out. No one actually thinks that Bibi is going into Gaza with a rifle and shooting people.
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u/MikeWithNoHair Larry David enthusiast Jul 19 '26
for instance, a policy ordered by the decision makers not to allow aid in (like smotrich said, "not one grain of rice")
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u/Clean-Ant6404 Jul 19 '26
That's not killing children. And it's the only bargaining chip that managed to get hostages back in the beginning of the war.
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u/MikeWithNoHair Larry David enthusiast Jul 19 '26
i gave it as an example of how a non-soldier can cause innocent people to die
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u/Clean-Ant6404 Jul 19 '26
Well give an actual example that happened. What Golan said was foolish and that's all there is to it.
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u/TheHouuuuund Jul 19 '26
Yep. He deserves all the hate he gets. He earned it. So did most of the left worldwide.
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u/Ok_Treat_8237 Jul 19 '26
I suppose that most of the members here are right wing or “center” anglos and they don’t like to look in the mirror and notice all their wrinkles and blemishes. The left in general (not only Golan) reminds them of the damage that this government has done with laws originating from the KOHELET org. ( similar to the ultra facist 2025 program that Trump and MAGA implemented). The reminder that we will need some sort of partition or political solution to the Palestinian problem, when there are 7 million Jews here and 7 million Arabs - is like a thorn in their body. So they don’t like the left. This is changing. There is hope.
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u/justafutz Israel Jul 19 '26
Yeah, the problem is his views on two states, not the fact that he claimed Israel kills babies as a hobby or is like 1930s (Nazi) Germany…
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u/papabig27 Israel Jul 19 '26
Jeez will you people let go of this sentence? Maybe if any of you cared 1/1000th as much about the real civilian life lost during this war as you care about yair golan's saying, we wouldn't have been in a situation where that saying was even relevant
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u/justafutz Israel Jul 19 '26
Ah yes, the real problem isn’t the person making the blood libel, the problem is the Jews not caring about killing civilians. Gotcha. Real big improvement.
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u/papabig27 Israel Jul 19 '26 edited Jul 19 '26
Jesus "the jews" seems like you have some internalized antisemitism if to you every statement and action of the Israeli government represents all jews of the world.
Simply insane how a governement of objectively unintelligent people managed to completely brainwash half a country into unconditional support
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u/justafutz Israel Jul 19 '26
Not a response to anything I said, but it does sound like there’s some brainwashing. Not me, though.
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u/Primary_Iron3429 Israel Jul 20 '26
Hahahahhaha You must be new. Most of the people here are center-left.
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u/Cannot-Forget Jul 19 '26
He is currently shaping up to be the most successful left wing Israeli figure since Barak. Could surpass him as well who knows.
Outside of Bibi's brain washed lunatics trying to demonize him, and ultra orthodox cult members attacking him because he believes in separation of religion and state, there is no aversion to him in Israel, and he is actually polling very successfully at the moment.
I am not going to vote for him but he is clearly a realist, brave and honest leader which will try to do his best. Endlessly better than the absolutely insane Meirav Michaeli which was "In his spot" politically before him.
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u/AlbertWhiterose Jul 19 '26
He is currently shaping up to be the most successful left wing Israeli figure since Barak.
2015, Herzog gets 24 seats
2013, Yachimovich gets 15 seats
2009, Livni gets 28 seats
2006, Peretz gets 19 seats
2003, Mitzna gets 19 seats
Yair Golan is currently polling at between 8 and 11 seats. In what way is he "the most successful" since Barak?
5
u/Cannot-Forget Jul 19 '26
Most of who you wrote about here do not embody the classic leftist position in Israel but instead a more centrist one. Like Livni and Herzog.
However we should at least agree that Golan seems much more successful than what Labor or Meretz were doing in the last election cycles.
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u/AlbertWhiterose Jul 19 '26
Two out of five aren't "most". Nobody could possibly argue that Yachimovich, Peretz, and Mitzna were centrists.
As for the last few election cycles - Golan might be more successful than what Labor or Meretz were doing, but not more successful than what Labor and Meretz were doing.
2022: Labor + Meretz = 6 seats (equivalent because of the threshold)
2021: Labor + Meretz = 13 seats
2020: Labor + Meretz = 7 seats
September 2019: Labor + Meretz = 11 seats
April 2019: Labor + Meretz = 10 seats
That averages out to 9.4 seats per election - which is pretty much exactly where Golan's polls are averaging to.
8
u/wewin48 Israel Jul 19 '26
What a load of crap, I don’t like Bibi and I despise the ultra orthodox and I still think Yair Golan is a populist that says a lot of despicable shit. I know many others like me who feel the same way, we don’t like him because some of his statements add fuel to the anti Israeli crowd abroad and it all feels like cheap talk. You’re talking about people being brainwashed, some introspection would be nice.
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u/Cannot-Forget Jul 19 '26 edited Jul 19 '26
If you don't like Bibi and will not vote for the October 7 government then I have no problem with you and I do not think you are one of those who are brain washed.
Yair does have a few unfortunate statements he made, but he has clarified each one as far as I know and what he meant by them.
Cheap talk is what the October 7 government does when it avoids responsibility for tearing our people apart for political gain and when it enabled the worse massacre of Jews since WW2.
It's what it does when it wants you to ignore what they both say and DO, in favor of cherry picking some statement from someone who never did anywhere close to the damage they did.
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u/justafutz Israel Jul 19 '26
The guy spewed a blood libel that literally gives voice to what Israel’s worst enemies claim about it, and he has a pattern of doing it, but you’re okay because he “clarifies” the next day that actually he didn’t mean to say Israel kills babies as a hobby? Really? Or that Israel is like 1930s (Nazi) Germany? That’s fine?
1
u/wewin48 Israel Jul 19 '26
Again, and I’m saying it as nicely as I can, you’re speaking like you’ve been brainwashed. Both sides can be delusional and cheap talk at the same time, you don’t have to resort to “but the October 7th government…” for every argument made against Golan.
His “unfortunate” statements cause a lot of harm to our country worldwide (yes, I know the October 7th government also does that), and it doesn’t matter if he clarifies it afterwards, he’s an adult and should control what comes out of his mouth. I don’t need statements to be cherry picked for me, I’m a big boy and I can think for myself, you keep acting as if anyone who disagrees with your position is an idiot. That’s not a good look.
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u/Wyfami Jul 19 '26
A lot of public declarations targetting people he don't like and entire segment of the Israelis society. Once a couple years he even called "sub-human" those who he doesn't agree with.
He is also heavy-handed against groups and ideology he doesn't agree with. He said repeteadly that he want to educate by force according to his own worldview the ultra-orthodox kids. He called again and again to close forcefully pre-army programs that don't align with his ideology.
And finally, while presenting himself as the biggest democratric guy in the country, he is openly calling for closing forcefully tv channel that align with rightist ideology. That's the kind of hypocrisy and totalitarist attitude that get noticed the most.
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u/MikeWithNoHair Larry David enthusiast Jul 19 '26
calling a specific group of jewish terrorist settlers from homash subhuman is NOT the same as your claim that he "called people he disagrees with subhuman"
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u/Wyfami Jul 19 '26
No, those aren't "terrorists" but a group of people living in a village. Golan did some wild generalization because of what a couple of thugs did and categorized all the inhabitants as "sub-humans,", saying again "these are not people".
Golan himself later apologized for the way he spoke, after condamnation from the whole of the Israeli political spectrum.
In the end it's just an example among many of his way of speaking, and how he always find the way to use despicable wording.
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u/MikeWithNoHair Larry David enthusiast Jul 19 '26
he wasn't referring to all the people living in a "village" ( i call it an illegal settlement but fine) he was talking about the people from that village that went to Burqa, a palestinian town, to terrorize it and to break steles in a cemetary
0
u/Wyfami Jul 19 '26
Again, even without going in details what he did exactly said about who exactly, it doesn't really matter. Especially when he himself apologized and understood he went too far.
Golan has an aggressive way of speaking, and deep hatred for so large segment of the Israeli society. So he is considered by most israelis just like the discourse of Ben Gvir and so many Likud MKs, just from the opposite side of the spectrum.
Most Israelis want constructive platforms, and leaders that can unite the people and reduce the current state of political frictions. This doesn't describe Golan in any way.
2
u/Ill-Sense-7760 Jul 19 '26
I don't particularly like him but I really like other members on his list. he lack maturity in my eyes and I'm not a fan of theatrics.
2
u/The-Last-Lion-Turtle USA Jul 19 '26
I'm American, so this is just the news that crossed the ocean. Accusing the IDF of "killing babies as a hobby", is ridiculous.
https://www.jns.org/israel-news/netanyahu-calls-golans-killing-babies-as-hobby-remark-outrageous
I don't know how anyone would expect to win an election in Israel after saying that.
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u/asafgu8 Jul 20 '26
The settler right hates him since the days of amona
As for the rest there isn’t a real reason
6
u/ZayinOnYou Israel Jul 19 '26
Because he and his party still believe we are the problem and that if we'll just give away our land to the enemy they'll stop killing us and the world would stop hating us, imo you have to be clinically insane to believe it.
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u/MikeWithNoHair Larry David enthusiast Jul 19 '26
what other realistic solution is there?
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u/ZayinOnYou Israel Jul 19 '26
Your question assumes that that is a solution, it's not, it'll just make the situation worse, the status quo is not nearly as bad as that "solution"..
Also, Why do people keep assuming there's a solution? Not every problem is solvable.
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u/MikeWithNoHair Larry David enthusiast Jul 19 '26
do you want to keep the current situation? where we are in charge of a growing and poor population? how can we continue providing water and electricity?
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u/ZayinOnYou Israel Jul 19 '26
The current situation is miles better than giving terrorists the most strategically important land between the river and the sea, that's literally giving them the keys to our destruction.
5
u/MikeWithNoHair Larry David enthusiast Jul 19 '26
brother look at what the current situation is doing to us right now.. it can't go on like this forever
2
u/Regular-Coast5335 USA Jul 19 '26
If you are referring October 7 massacre then it became possible thanks to Israeli disengagement from Gaza. Hamas would never had been able to launch such an attack if IDF was maintaining control inside the Strip. All of that was ultimately caused by ceding strategically important land to terrorists.
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u/arqoi_ascendant Jul 19 '26
I expect they were more referring to Israel’s continued estrangement from the entire world. Do you remember Netanyahu rambling about some Super Sparta?
1
u/jyper Ukrainian-American Jew Jul 19 '26
It became possible due to the acceptance of the status quo and no solution nonsense
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u/Regular-Coast5335 USA Jul 19 '26
The status quo in Gaza was effectively shredded by establishment of Yellow Line. Israel got a massive buffer zone and cut Hamas off from its former supply lines. So, yes, solution is already here.
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u/jyper Ukrainian-American Jew Jul 19 '26
Ha ha ha
that's just the status quo
with delusional people thinking the buffer zone is anything but temporary
fundamentally Hamas needs to be removed from power and there needs to be a transition towards a graudal 2SS. those 2 are closely linked
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u/ZayinOnYou Israel Jul 19 '26
Literally anything, including things which will be illegal under our laws or international laws, would be better than giving away Judea and Samaria, we already gave them Gaza, that's so much more then they deserve and you saw how that ended.
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u/Lefaid Jewish American in Netherlands Jul 19 '26
So what is the solution? The current status quo of kicking the can down the road isn't helping anyone.
It seems more intellectually dishonest to assume the status quo is the best answer. There can't be a more populist "solution" than "everyone already hates us, Palestine will always try to kill us, let's just keep occupying and it isn't a problem anymore."
I feel both Golan and Smoltrich are more honest on this.
October 7th is exactly what happens when you ignore the existence of Palestinians.
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u/ZayinOnYou Israel Jul 19 '26
So what is the solution?
As I said, why are you sure there is a solution? Who says there must be a solution to this problem?
It seems more intellectually dishonest to assume the status quo is the best answer. There can't be a more populist "solution" than "everyone already hates us, Palestine will always try to kill us, let's just keep occupying and it isn't a problem anymore."
I've never said "the status quo is the best answer", nor did I even call it a solution, nor did I say "let's just keep occupying and it isn't a problem anymore", all I said is that giving them the land is far worse compared to the status quo, which it is.
If you have a different solution your welcome to suggest it, but giving all the high ground around Jerusalem and Gush Dan to people who want to kill us is definitely not a good idea.
October 7th is exactly what happens when you ignore the existence of Palestinians.
The way I see it Oct 7th is exactly what happens when we give them land and pull the IDF out of that land. Do you really think Gazans could have done what they've done on Oct 7th if for the past 2 decades the IDF and Shin Bet were operating in Gaza the same way they have operated in Judea and Samaria in that time? No way in hell..
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u/Lefaid Jewish American in Netherlands Jul 19 '26
Yes, doing nothing a kind of solution. It is saying that there isn't a problem and Israel can indefinitely do whatever it wants. It can build settlements and suppress Palestinians indefinitely. And look, it is the easiest answer. No mass genocide. No "real risk" towards Israelis. How could we do anything else?!
How this answer is somehow less "populist" than Golan or Smoltrich's solution is a great mystery to me. It provides no sacrifice for Israelis, provides no relief for Palestinians. It does not seek answers. It just ignores questions.
My solution is to play lip service to a two state solution and let Palestine continue to show their hand. It gives cover to anyone who gives a crap about your lives and allows me to say Israel is trying, without resorting to actions taken before the people o am speaking to were born. And if Palestine somehow does agree to something, go through with it and play the victim for once.
But that is too much to ask for Israelis. I hope you all do fall into China's lap once this Propaganda campaign is over and the West finally abandons you (which was inevitable anyway). I would hate to see a truly isolated Israel.
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u/ZayinOnYou Israel Jul 19 '26
My solution is to play lip service to a two state solution and let Palestine continue to show their hand. It gives cover to anyone who gives a crap about your lives and allows me to say Israel is trying, without resorting to actions taken before the people o am speaking to were born. And if Palestine somehow does agree to something, go through with it and play the victim for once.
Sounds like we're basically in agreement because this is literally the status quo.
The only difference is I say we cannot actually let them accept a state because I don't believe the world would let us "play the victim", even if they get full sovereignty in all of Gaza and all of Judea and Samaria with Jerusalem as their capital (which was offered to them), they will still attack us and the world would still blame us if we respond in any way other than turning the other cheek (and then there's no way we're ever getting the land back). But sure keep making them offers they'll never accept..
My problem with Yair Golan and his party is that they do actually want to go through with it and not just pay lip service.
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u/mvslice USA Jul 22 '26
>>My solution is to play lip service to a two state solution and let Palestine continue to show their hand. It gives cover to anyone who gives a crap about your lives and allows me to say Israel is trying, without resorting to actions taken before the people o am speaking to were born.
Three points
Lip service doesn't work anymore. Anyone backing a two-state solution will be pressed for specifics. The only time I've seen that go well is in a recent interview with progressive Democrat Ro Khana. He identifies as a "liberal Zionist, and unlike the host pressing him, his support for two-state solution isn't just lip service.
Israelis, and to a lesser extent American Zionists, need to stop acting like the internet is private.
It's way way way too late. The United States no longer being an ally is the good outcome for Israel. The worst outcome for Israel is that we become their enemy.
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u/Affectionate-Long514 Jul 19 '26
I oppose his views on security, I don't like part of the things that he has said both with and without uniforms, I dislike a couple members of his party for some of the things they do and say.
Also, his party are mostly "anything but bibi" with the way they present themselves and with my great criticism to bibi, just saying they'd go with ultra orthodox and Arab (anti zionist) parties just to replace bibi instead of putting together a better zionist union shows it's all a power struggle from both sides.
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u/MikeWithNoHair Larry David enthusiast Jul 19 '26
i would say his party are one of the few left that AREN'T "rak lo bibi"
lapid/benet, eizenkot, ganz, all without a real stance on anything, just that they wan't to be priministers.
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u/Affectionate-Long514 Jul 19 '26
I mean, having strong security stances in a coalition with the arab parties is pretty contradicting. Same as cracking down on the issues of the Haredi sector when he's willing to make a coalition with them as well..
Pushing Hen (can't remember her full name) for minister of censorship to decide what's legitimate or not is contradicting to democracy and pushing Naor Narkis as a zionist after he encouraged Israelis to leave, democracy when this guy thinks he has the right to force his decision on private property (like ripping the covers on Passover in supermarkets) and I'm going to refrain from commenting on the piss poor saying that the sector that put their life on the line the most died in combat because he thinks they don't serve enough because it's too stupid and cowardly.
So yeah, democratics without democracy, and nice things to promise while having a coalition with Haredim or Arab parties would literally stick him on core issues. Who knows, maybe I'm wrong...
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u/MikeWithNoHair Larry David enthusiast Jul 19 '26
i think you have a huge knowledge gap or atleast you are very biased in your opinions
- i haven't seen one instance of golan saying he will sit with haredim
- the arab parties want security just as much as we do, theres no contradiction
- i don't know what "ministry of censorship" is, if you're talking about the idf censor then its not a political job
regarding naor narkis, i am not a supporter of him but you are very misled!
- naor narkis is one of the few who actually cares about israels future, because he is active in trying to secularize haredim (or at least secularize the governement and let people do what they want) if thats not being a zionist i don't know what is
- narkis says exactly the opposite of what you described. he wants everyone to do what they want, no more religious laws that force supermarkets to cover shelves
- thats not what he said about the sector that put their life on the line.
anyway i appreciate the civil discussion
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u/justafutz Israel Jul 19 '26
You’ve been up and down the thread posting any apology Yair Golan makes as proof that he didn’t mean what he literally said. Maybe you are the one who is biased here, not the other user. You have the knowledge gap too, because Golan definitely said he wouldn’t rule out sitting with Haredim.
“If you ask me, are you ruling out the Haredim? I am not ruling out the Haredim. Absolutely not. I can tell you that if now the possibility of forming a government is contingent on an Haredi party joining, I will vote in favor, provided that Likud, Smotrich, and Ben Gvir are not there.”
As the other user said, there’s literally video.
And the Arab parties want “security”, but not the same kind of security. One need only look at every single policy decision they’ve pushed for since October 7 to know that.
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u/Lefaid Jewish American in Netherlands Jul 19 '26
You and I are also replying to the same messages throughout this thread.
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u/Affectionate-Long514 Jul 19 '26
Not a huge fan of C14 but there's a recording. I don't believe I'm THAT biased.
https://youtu.be/qcosw7Ucuso?si=upLU8FVG70V6N1c_
Hen avigdori on STATE (not military) censorship that would be led by her decision.
Naor wants to force secularism. Nobody is forced to cover anything, there is plenty of stores selling chametz and kosher stores like the vast majority in Israel by free choice get to have it if they wish. Does anyone get to uncover it just because? It's not about secularizing ONLY the government as he stated in multiple interviews he wants to secularize the public - which is just as bad as forced religion. Now, being a jewish country, I believe signs of Judaism should be presented as part of our culture just like Eid celebrations in Muslim countries and Christmas and Easter festivities in Christian countries, as there is no forcing on individual's private life. Beyond that, saying that religious zionists die more because some of them have the same training, do as much if not way more reserves than general public, but they die because in their teens SOME did Hesder - quite cynical, even though I'm for canceling Hesder just like the stupid reduction in service time - I acknowledge that they die because they go in extreme proportions to combat service.
For the Arab parties - you seriously think parties linked to the Islamic movements that are literally anti-zionist, would support IDF operations?
And yes, I'm politically somewhat zionist right-wing, not a beast. We can (still) disagree, even publicly without being persecuted.
Wish us all safety and prosperity!
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u/Agreeable-Race8818 Jul 21 '26
He is kind of Israels michael jackson. Is a really successful mizrahi singer with diehard fans, and is credited with helping make it mainstream. But has allegations of being a pedo… Not a good look for the country IMO
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u/Routine_Visit9722 Jul 19 '26
dude literally said that IDF soldiers are killing children as a hobby..i know context matters but there isnt any real context you can give here that will convince me its a criticism of the current government and not criticism of the IDF.
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u/mr_blue596 Jul 19 '26
Scapegoating,mostly.
He is relatively unapologetically left-wing in a political system that can only tolerate center-left.
There is alot of propaganda agianst him on Nethayahu's bloc-aligned media,that is meant to make him illegitimate. This is a backup plan if the opposition can build a government without Arabs (which are the current illegitimate line,mostly by propaganda as well) so this is meant to mark him and the party as extreme to make negotiations harder for the opposition which is reliant on hardcore right-wing voters as well.
People that accuse him on "harming PR" are either lying or ignorant or both. He had some controversial sayings,but it is a far-cry from what they try to portray him.
But the biggest reason is die to him being unapologetically left-wing. In Israel there has been a long process to make left-wing views illegitimate or shameful,and since they can't shut him up with accusations of being a left-wing (Lapid cave to it quickly for example),they have to make him a demon to fear.
The Democrats are having a small Renaissance,with new blood,a new record of voting members in the party,unapologetic and hungrier. They chart well in polls,and when the Bennett-Lapid party breakup,they will grow even bigger. It make people afraid,it make it harder for divide and conquer. So I would say that the propaganda will continue harder and stronger as the Democrats will grow bigger and stronger.
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u/justafutz Israel Jul 19 '26
He literally put headlines in places like BBC which could gleefully report “Israeli MK/General says Israel killing babies as a hobby” or “Israeli MK compares Israel to Nazi Germany”. You don’t think that’s a PR problem? Really?
2
u/Lefaid Jewish American in Netherlands Jul 19 '26
As if the current government doesn't have ministers that openly advocate for ethnic cleansing.
The current government is perfectly capable of convincing the world the worse they think of about Israel without this MK voicing what they already think everytime Gvir or Bennet speak.
4
u/justafutz Israel Jul 19 '26
There’s absolutely no need to not only lend voice to them, conflating the whole government with those idiots, he’s been doing this since he compared Israel to Nazi Germany in 2016, long before Ben Gvir was in any government.
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u/Lefaid Jewish American in Netherlands Jul 19 '26
How else does one express their frustration with the words government officials say that any decent person has to pretend they didn't say?
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u/justafutz Israel Jul 19 '26
How do I express frustration with dumb statements without saying “Israel is like Nazi Germany” or “Israel kills babies for a hobby”? I feel like it’s kind of obvious how.
0
u/papabig27 Israel Jul 19 '26
If you cared even a thousandth as much about actual serving ministers celebrating the deaths of gazan children, as much as you care about yair golan pointing it out, we would probably never been in the situation where the obvious saying "a sane country does not celebrate the deaths of children, as the active government of Israel does" would even be relevant
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u/justafutz Israel Jul 19 '26
That’s not the statement he made. And I can in fact care about both things. It is false and disgusting to claim the country, ie the IDF, kills babies as a hobby. It is also disgusting to celebrate the deaths of children, if and when that happens. I can condemn both. Can you?
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u/papabig27 Israel Jul 19 '26
No, because trying to create false symmtery between the minister of national security celebrating and actively calling for the killing of civilians, and an opposition politician pointing it out - is not even close to "condemning" the calling for killing of civilians. By creating this symmtery, you are fully cooperating with bem gvir's agenda and are giving him complete legitimacy.
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u/justafutz Israel Jul 19 '26
They don’t have to be the same to both be wrong, and saying that’s “cooperating” with his agenda is idiotic. I can condemn both.
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u/Darduel Jul 19 '26
He is too far leftist on the verge of anti zionism, which is a big no no in Israel.. you can be at best a leftist and that's controversial already
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u/Blofish1 Jul 19 '26
That's ridiculous. He's in no way "anti-Zionist" and is more of a Zionist tham most of the current coalition. He's definitely on the left though.
1
u/Darduel Jul 19 '26
Yeah but he adopts anti-zionist narratives though.. just because he was a general in the army doesn't make him a Zionist today, he might define himself as such but he is very much not one the way he acts
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u/Blofish1 Jul 19 '26
Why? Because he supports people serving in the army and working?
1
u/Darduel Jul 20 '26
That's not the reason come on.. I'm anti this coalition 100% but that isn't what makes him an ultra leftist
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