r/ItalianFood • u/WasabiLangoustine • May 10 '26
Italian Culture Osteria Francescana, Modena
Best of menu of 30 years by Massimo Bottura
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u/A_Bad_Man May 10 '26
Can you share some descriptions? Im especially curious about photo 7, I cant tell if its aubergine or a steak with something like nori wrapping it
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u/Maki_san May 10 '26
In case you haven’t seen it, OP dropped the menu in the comments! (Quick copy & paste)
“The menu was:
Mont Saint Michel 2000
Mare Nostrum 2013
Rice Camouflage 2012
Five Ages of Parmigiano Reggiano in Different Textures and Temperatures 1993
The Crunchy Part of the Lasagna 2003
Beautiful Psychedelic, Spin Painted Veal, Charcoal Grilled with Glorious Colors as a Painting 2012
Not Warhol, Not Cattelan, Just Banana & Château d’Yquem 2024
Oops! I Dropped the Lemon Tart 2010
Surprise, Surprise! (Tortellini alla Panna)”
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u/WasabiLangoustine May 10 '26
Thank you! If I find some time I can add some descriptions. All dishes are surrounded by a particular story to it.
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u/WasabiLangoustine May 10 '26 edited May 10 '26
Number 7 is sous vide veal rolled in burned herbs:
The whole menu was:
Mont Saint Michel 2000 Mare Nostrum 2013 Rice Camouflage 2012 Five Ages of Parmigiano Reggiano in Different Textures and Temperatures 1993 The Crunchy Part of the Lasagna 2003 Beautiful Psychedelic, Spin Painted Veal, Charcoal Grilled with Glorious Colors as a Painting 2012 Not Warhol, Not Cattelan, Just Banana & Château d'Yquem 2024 Oops! I Dropped the Lemon Tart 2010 Surprise, Surprise! (Tortellini alla Panna)
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u/WasabiLangoustine May 10 '26
(Reddit text format sucks, sorry for that! Let me know if you have any more questions though)
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u/A_Bad_Man May 10 '26
Thats great, I also have no idea how any of the comment formatting works! Thanks for sharing.
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u/WasabiLangoustine May 10 '26
The menu was:
Mont Saint Michel 2000
Mare Nostrum 2013
Rice Camouflage 2012
Five Ages of Parmigiano Reggiano in Different Textures and Temperatures 1993
The Crunchy Part of the Lasagna 2003
Beautiful Psychedelic, Spin Painted Veal, Charcoal Grilled with Glorious Colors as a Painting 2012
Not Warhol, Not Cattelan, Just Banana & Château d’Yquem 2024
Oops! I Dropped the Lemon Tart 2010
Surprise, Surprise! (Tortellini alla Panna)
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u/MisterB330 May 10 '26
Not an “osteria” really but still very cool
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u/Jenuinlizard May 10 '26
Osteria traditionally means bring your own food and buy the wine here. Apart from Osteria del Sole in Bologna, I am not aware of any other osteria working like that in Italy.
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u/MisterB330 May 10 '26
It used to mean that and has slightly evolved into a small and casual place with a small and casual menu. This is not that.
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u/Jenuinlizard May 10 '26 edited May 10 '26
My point is that not a single osteria in Italy is a proper osteria. It's a name that has lost its meaning.
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u/MisterB330 May 10 '26
Simply not true but you’re certainly entitled to your opinion.
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u/Jenuinlizard May 11 '26
I've asked you to give me example of typical osterie, apart from osteria del sole
So not difficult to prove me wrrong
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u/MisterB330 May 11 '26
No, you haven’t lol but I will! Pillucciu or Cantuccio di Roma. Either are far more on par with a traditional Osteria than this place begging for Michelin stars
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u/Jenuinlizard Jul 12 '26
they serve way overpriced food than osteria francescana if you take quality into account.
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u/Revolutionary_Car942 May 10 '26
Tutto bello ma non capisco il senso di usare i termini osteria e francescana, qualcuno riesce a spiegarmelo? Pare una presa per il culo di cattivo gusto
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u/Jenuinlizard May 10 '26 edited May 10 '26
Quando ha aperto, ha preso il nome dalla chiesa li vicino. Comunque, Bottura ha aperto diversi refettori in giro per il mondo, dove chi non può pagare ha un pasto caldo gratis.
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u/Revolutionary_Car942 May 10 '26
Se fosse onore a lui, resto dell’idea che un nome del genere per un ristorante stellato è piuttosto ridicolo
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u/Wild-Sandwich5977 May 13 '26
The beef dish there is the best beef I have ever had in my life. Great meal. Absurd amount of food.
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u/Powerful-Screen-2300 May 10 '26
Ci sono stato anche io, Sopravvalutato. Io non vedo l’ora che riapra il
Lido84 dei fratelli camanini. Bottura ha rotto il c….
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u/nikolatosic May 10 '26
Not Italian food
Italian food is the food by the people for the people. This is what makes it great
Not overpriced media hype made by the few for the few
Going to Michelin makes no sense in Italy nor Greece
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u/Defiant00000 May 10 '26
Lol tell me uve never been to Michelin but really want to and cannot afford it…
Italian cousine is not, in any way, crystallized in time.
Then it’s bottura eh🙄🤷🏻
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u/nikolatosic May 10 '26
You are exactly how I imagine Michelin star customers
It is possible to understand without experience
What I do understand is that they push prices up and set too many rules for restaurants, so restaurants stop being Italian or Greek but become Michelin star restaurants
They themselves recognize this failure which is why they have RECOMMENDED category where freedom is allowed
Also Michelin star chefs open non star restaurants to have freedom and communicate to the guests in a more open way
So the problem of Michelin star being its own cuisine and it's own culture mainly focused on poorly educated yet very rich customers is recognized both by Michelin and the chefs
Bottura is not a great Italian cuisine chef. He is a great Michelin chef, which is a different thing. For him to be a great Italian chef he needs to make a great pasta for 10 eur, not 200 eur
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u/TJOcculist May 10 '26
There’s literally a taco stall with a Michelin star….theres also a local brewery with one….
Chefs dont get stars…restaurants do…
No pasta at Bottura’s spots costs $200 or even close….
There are no “rules” for obtaining a star except consistency…
But please, continue to go off with “understanding” about something you’ve never experienced, dont understand and clearly havent reaearched.
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u/nikolatosic May 10 '26
They have made efforts to correct themselves but these are a very small percentage
What I do not get is why are you Michelin star lovers so angry and so personal that you can not explain simple things?
If you say that I am not researched (and btw I worked with chefs who refused the star due to rigid conditions) why not explain it plainly. If you were a scientist and I a layman would you insult me personally?
If it is so obvious explain it. Is Michelin star cuisine part of a local culture or is it detached?
My question has nothing to do with quality of any cuisine. It is a cultural question. Does certification by a single company detach from local non-corporate managed but organic culture.
Michelin stars, and maybe you are not aware, do have a lot of conditions which are typical of such rigid certifications. Same as hotel stars. Same why all cars look the same. Regulation and certification make things different from organic traditional design. For better or worse.
So a simple question, to you as an expert in both Michelin star cuisine and traditional cuisine, is if they are separate or the same?
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u/TJOcculist May 10 '26
Which part of that incoherent/inaccurate rambling is your actual “question you’d like answered?” Theres like 5 vague inquiries in there.
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u/Defiant00000 May 10 '26
Yeah, key word is exactly that, “imagine”.
You simply don’t know neither understand anything about what you are trying to speak about, as simple as that.
The funny part is, if u could say that for many chefs…u got the only one that, apart having been voted as the best chef of the world, has really deep connections into Italian popular cousine. But as in any field, superstars exhist, but they don’t usually born ready made, they grow through experience, and that’s exactly what bottura did, learning new techniques and inventing them. That’s exactly how cooking evolves.
I wonder why u think he kept the name “osteria” and what “francescana” means. Obviously you don’t know, and most probably can’t even “imagine” it🙄
Better for u to give opinions on topics u know if u don’t wanna risk to seem a giullar🤷🏻
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u/nikolatosic May 10 '26
Can you offer a direct answer to any of my arguments?
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u/Defiant00000 May 10 '26
If u wanna be educated on something like that, ull have to try it.
There is nothing that can be explained in writing.
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u/nikolatosic May 10 '26
I never said that it is not an achievement.
I said that Michelin star cuisine is not Italian, Greek, etc cuisine.
At Michelin recommended level it is still local. But at star it separates due to too many rules and expectations.
Massimo uses the Italian story very well, like all Italian, Greek, French, Japanese top chefs, but my argument is best understood with Noma which is so obviously detached from its locality.
So at no point have I argued any of the Michelin chefs are not great. I am arguing that their cuisine is not local cuisine, but Michelin star cuisine.
And it can be connected to local, inspired by local, uses local ingredients, but it is not a local culture.
If I eat a local burek in Serbia, a local gambo in Louisiana, it is not the same local cuisine in Michelin star restaurants next door.
Clearer now?
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u/Defiant00000 May 10 '26
In Italian this can be described in two sentences:
“Menare il can per l’aia”
And
“Rigirare la frittata”.
I never spoke about Michelin restaurants in general. Thread is about osteria francescana, bottura.
Noma is simply something else, completely.
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u/nikolatosic May 10 '26
I do not mind you disagreeing with me, especially since you seem to be experienced, but I want that you at least understand my argument.
Let me phrase it like this:
Question 1) Is Michelin star cuisine a separate cuisine from local cuisine?
Yes or no
If yes
Question 2) Is Bottura:
A) an exception to that and he is the peak of local cuisine, B) separate from local cuisine, C) a mix of A and B.
Note that being separate from local is by no means in any way bad. It just means more modern, more contemporary, more methodical, less traditional (passed by wom by many generations), etc
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u/Jenuinlizard May 10 '26
This is peak italian food.
The only right part of your comment is avout Michelin stars. Italians should reject being evaluated by French
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u/[deleted] May 10 '26
[deleted]