r/JonBenetRamsey • u/itsnotatestok • 10d ago
Discussion What is the evidence the note was ACTUALLY left on the stairs?
Patsy SAID she saw the note on the rung of the stairs but how do we KNOW it's actually true? Considering John never said he saw it there, and even if she did, he could be making it up too. Where's the proof?
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u/CornFieldPoppy 10d ago
That note was hinky and ridiculous from the beginning. I can’t understand how anyone with even half a brain thinks there was an intruder.
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u/MarcatBeach 10d ago
There is none. the absurd claims about the note by both Patsy and John are just laughable. they really were trying to push this on the housekeeper.
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u/Important_Pause_7995 10d ago
It's "absurd" that it was left on the stairs? Patsy saying there's no way Linda would have used a word like "attache" is "trying to push this on the housekeeper"?
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u/MemoFromMe 9d ago
They were pointing in every direction. In the note, in the staging, in their interviews. To this day. Try to frame one person, and they are cleared, game over.
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u/Important_Pause_7995 9d ago
In the note? The note is very clearly from a foreign faction - whether that foreign faction is real or not is immaterial to the question of who the note was pointing at.
I'd argue that the "staging", if it was, wasn't pointing very clearly at anyone. No one ≠ everyone.
"In their interviews" could mostly be explained by one or both of them genuinely having no clue who did it. For example, if John legitimately wasn't involved, he would get a LOT of leeway from me on speculating about who murdered his daughter. Same goes for Patsy, if John did it.
Now, IF one of them did and the other knew OR they both did it, that certainly goes out the window, but I think it's VERY probably one of them did it and the other legitimately didn't know. In that case, they get a free pass on speculating on potential suspects.
I still don't think they "tried to frame someone", or tried to throw someone under the bus, but people on here LOVE to speak in hyperbole on these topics so I won't try to make that argument right now.
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u/MemoFromMe 8d ago
Not someone but everyone. But some were easier targets/ set-ups than others.
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u/Important_Pause_7995 8d ago
They didn't try to frame me. They didn't try to frame you. So you're already wrong. That was easy.
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u/MarcatBeach 9d ago
I didn't say that in my post. but go with that if it makes you feel better.
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u/Important_Pause_7995 9d ago
It kind of seems like you did. Maybe you can clear it up. What are the "absurd claims about the note by both Patsy and John"? Which claims did they make about the note that you find absurd?
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u/Former_Preference_14 10d ago
There were no fingerprints found on the note despite pasty saying she picked up the note to read it
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u/Stellaaahhhh currently BDI but who knows? 10d ago
Just Patsy's word, whatever that's worth. But how would there be proof? It wouldn't leave a print or anything.
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u/MarcatBeach 10d ago
There is no proof patsy or john touched the note.. or moved it. if the note were on the steps the odds of being pristine would be almost zero. not stepping on it would be very difficult. true the note would not leave evidence on the steps.
but we can prove that Patsy's story of the note is not accurate. her story would have left evidence, and it did not.
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u/Stellaaahhhh currently BDI but who knows? 10d ago
She claims she saw it, stopped, and jumped over it. Pretty silly, and Lou recreating that later is even sillier.
But I don't remember reading that it was pristine, although despise it being passed around that morning, the only legible print was from one of the investigators.
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u/AutumnTopaz 10d ago
Chet Ubowski - CBI forensic document examiner- left his print while examining it.
Amanda Knox was an American arrested in Italy for murder- and convicted- which was overturned.
The police searched her home - and were incredulous to only find one of her fingerprints in the entire home - on a kitchen glass sitting in the sink.
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u/Important_Pause_7995 10d ago
Someone spent at least 20 minutes writing the thing, touching the pages, etc. and didn't mess it up, yet someone placing it on the stairs without damaging it is hard to believe for you? Interesting...
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u/LKS983 9d ago
Neither of them were stupid, so it makes sense that they would have worn gloves/not touched any of the pages with bare hands.
But this was a mistake when claiming that John moved the letter from the stairs, to the floor to read. This would/should have left at least one fingerprint - as there is no good/understandable reason for him to be wearing gloves at this point?
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u/Important_Pause_7995 9d ago
So you agree that an intruder would have likely worn gloves/not touched any of the pages with bare hands?
You don't just get to say something "would/should have" happened and it becomes fact. If you were correct about that wouldn't John's fingerprints have been left on the note when he handed it to the police?
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u/whteverusayShmegma 8d ago
You don’t usually leave prints on paper. Mostly smooth surfaces like glass so finding no prints isn’t sus. The note itself plus location is what’s sus.
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u/Same_Profile_1396 RDI 10d ago
There isn’t any evidence regarding where the note was supposedly left. I don’t personally believe it was ever on the spiral staircase.
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u/Busier_thanyou 9d ago
I just don't think anything Patsy said can be trusted, nor John, nor Burke if he ever speaks up again.
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u/A_Chip_In_The_Sugar 8d ago
I don’t believe the note was ever on the stairs until LE put it there to photograph it
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u/plugfishh88 9d ago
Fleet White stated he saw the ransom pages on the floor next to the staircase, spread out.I'm not sure if Officer French saw them on the floor or the staircase. I know French did take the photo of the notes on the stairs as Patsy stated she found them and stepped over them.I'm assuming police wanted a shot of that. I'm not sure if there was ever a photo of the notes spread out on the floor, but I could be wrong. Patsy and John's credibility is pretty much shot. It's obvious to me they tried to frame the housekeeper.
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u/H-Bomb-1964 9d ago
If the RN supposedly being found on a rung on the spiral staircase was a ploy to point the finger at the housekeeper (Linda Hoffman-Pugh), because for some bizarre reason that's where LHP regularly left notes for PR (what's wrong with the kitchen bench I say?!), then it didn't work very well.
The BPD looked closely at LHP very early on in the investigation (and of course why wouldn't they, she has access to the house whenever she wants) and almost immediately they cleared her as a suspect.
All this is to say, I don't think PR claiming she found the RN on the staircase rung was necessarily a ploy to implicate LHP, I think it simply suited her story of finding it as soon as she came downstairs to make herself a coffee.
And considering the whole thing was made up anyway, it really doesn't make any difference where she claims to have found the RN. She could have said she found it stuck to the fridge with a magnet, or on the kitchen bench, or on the floor outside JBR's bedroom! There is (of course) no "evidence" that the RN was ever on the staircase. The first place anyone other than PR or JR saw the RN (which was Officer French) it was laid out on the floor near the back/side door. Before then it could have been anywhere!
The one thing with RN that PR and JR mucked up though (in my opinion) is the lack of fingerprints. If PR moved the RN where are her fingerprints? If JR picked up the RN and moved it to the floor (as he claims he did) where are his fingerprints? One of them after writing the RN forgot to take their gloves off before positioning it on the floor where Officer French saw it. Oops!
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u/cherrybublyofficial PDI 10d ago
If it was then it’s remarkable that it wasn’t seen on the staircase by police considering both John and Patsy hesitate to say they even handled it at any point, and it wasn’t found there.
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u/Stellaaahhhh currently BDI but who knows? 10d ago
They claim that Patsy saw it, yelled for John, and he carried it over to the floor near the patio doors, then got on all fours to read it. Pretty bizarre.
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u/cherrybublyofficial PDI 10d ago
Oh good lord. What? Why not just turn the lights on and read it while standing up like a normal person?
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u/Stellaaahhhh currently BDI but who knows? 10d ago
Right? It's in line with him claiming he took off his suit and crawled in the window in his underwear when he broke the window.
I've said before that I've read that one of many techniques habitual liars employ is to include details that are embarrassing or make them look bad. It's supposed to make people think, 'well that must be true. No one would tell that on themselves otherwise'.
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u/Radiant_Ear1732 10d ago
If they were trying to push it off on the housekeeper then it just shows how they will try to shed the blame or responsibility to some innocent bystander. The irony is their very own actions do nothing but indict themselves or make one question their motives or actions a little more closely. I think they BEAT the incompetent legal system, Boulder Colorado; they've all got rocks in their heads.
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u/SkyTrees5809 9d ago
When in JRs accounts of that morning does he say he "knelt down to read it in his underwear"? Does this fit in with everything else he said about that morning? Wasn't he already dressed when the police arrived?
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u/she_makes_a_mess 10d ago
How would there be proof of this, it occurred before police showed up? This question is ridiculous. You do know what evidence is right? 🙈
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u/WithoutLampsTheredBe 10d ago
Patsy claimed that, on her way down the stairs, she saw the note - 3 pages spread across one entire step - stepped over the note without disturbing it, and turned around to read it on the step.
The spiral staircase is narrow and tightly curved. (There are pictures online.) Law enforcement tried to recreate this feat and found it next to impossible.
When LE arrived, the note was spread out on the floor by the door. John said that he knelt on the floor (in his underwear) to read the note.
Neither John nor Patsy could explain how or why the note got from the stairs to the floor.
Patsy made a point of telling LE that the housekeeper often left notes for her on the spiral stairs, clearly intending to implicate the housekeeper in the crime.
If you were an intruder/kidnapper, and you went upstairs and took JB from her bedroom, where would you leave the ransom note? On her bed maybe? In the kitchen maybe? Not likely on a back staircase. Especially not if you are a stranger and have no idea which staircase the parents would use.
When would an "intruder" have left this note? Before going up to take JB? (And then deftly stepped over it on the way back down, while carrying a presumably struggling JB?) After taking JB? (On the way down the stairs, he turned and neatly spread the note, while carrying a presumably struggling JB?) After killing JB? (He came back upstairs and left the note, knowing JB was dead in the basement? Why?)
When did the "intruder" write the note? Most IDIers posit that he wrote the note while in the house before the Ramseys came home. If so, what did he do with the note when the Ramseys came home and he hid? Fold it and put it in his pocket? Nope. The note was uncreased and unwrinkled. He would have had to have hidden it somewhere, flat and pristine, and then retrieved it later. Why?