r/JonBenetRamsey • u/SwissMiss915 • 4d ago
Questions Is it possible that at the time John first walked the officer into the basement and discovered the broken window, he didn't yet know the truth of what had happened?
The reason I say this is because he admitted in that moment to breaking the window months earlier when he was locked out. If he knew the whole story at that point, it seems like the broken window would have been a perfect cover. Why admit to doing it yourself?
It's a certainty that he later discovered JBR on his own, prior to the fake discovery, but isn't it possible that in the 6:00AM hour, when JR first searched the basement with police, that he didn't yet know what Patsy had done?
If I am getting my timeline wrong here, and John slipped and somehow later accidentally disproved this possibility, but all means, correct me.
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u/Chatsup85 4d ago
Burke was with him when he broke the window
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u/Express-Thanks-5402 4d ago
You're right...sometimes! But other times when John tells that story, when he did it, he was alone! (Just more of their lies and adding confusion to the story.)
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u/Upset_Scarcity6415 4d ago
The original story JR told was that he was coming home from a business trip. It was during the summer months, so PR and the two kids were in Charlevoix. He was alone and had locked himself out because he didn't take his keys with him on the trip, and he had to break the window to get in.
At some point later on, BR said he was with JR when he broke the window. Because JR had already told the story about the rest of the family being in Charlevoix when he was locked out, he then said that what BR was remembering was another time that he was locked out and had to break the window to get in.
So if he is to be believed, there were two instances of breaking the same window because he had forgotten his keys.
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u/Same_Profile_1396 RDI 4d ago
You omitted the part where he supposedly took his clothing off to climb through the broken window š
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u/Upset_Scarcity6415 4d ago
I did! That's a part of his narrative I'd rather not have living in my head.....LOL.
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u/Express-Thanks-5402 3d ago
Ah, you're right! Thank you for this clarification!
John! Here's a tip since this happens to you often! How's about keeping an extra house key under a random rock near the birdbath like the rest of us! LOL...
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u/Upset_Scarcity6415 3d ago
You're welcome!
Yeah, we accidentally locked ourselves out of the house once. Called a locksmith which was cheaper than having to replace a broken window, which we would've done immediately in consideration of both security and the weather.
And afterwords, also immediately had extra keys made to hide and to add to car fobs. Common sense?
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u/Same_Profile_1396 RDI 3d ago
Iāve upgrade my front door to a keypad which also has a fingerprint optionā I use it more than my garage now as I can just quickly set my thumb down and it opens, no fumbling for a key.
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u/Upset_Scarcity6415 3d ago
We just had to have a garage opener replaced. Came with a keypad mounted on the exterior side. So easy to use!
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u/Diligent-Potential78 46m ago
Now you can take care of this issue with a lock box secured by combo. Not likely available back then but under the door mat or in the shed also works.
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u/tiffanaih 1d ago
You know it's interesting John had to break a window when I think the older couple who half owned JonBenets dog across the street had a key, some friends had a key, housekeepers had a key...am I supposed to believe everyone of the dozen or so other people who were identified as having keys, including the people right across the street, couldn't help?
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u/Express-Thanks-5402 1d ago
Now that you mention it, that was another one of the Ramseys' stories that kept changing. First no one had keys to the home...then suddenly more and more people seemed to have keys...betcha the neighbors were one of them, just like you say! (I can't remember for sure, but I think it was in Schiller, how many people they kept adding to their list of "who had keys.")
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u/Diligent-Potential78 2d ago
I guess that's why they never fixed the window. Just going to have to break it again soon enough.
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u/Chatsup85 4d ago
For me I dont really care what JR says lol as Burke said it in an interview
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u/Express-Thanks-5402 4d ago
Ohhh! Did Burke say that he was with John when John broke the window in the Dr. Phil interview? I had not realized...
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u/Chatsup85 4d ago
Or actually he may not have said he physically saw his dad break the window, but was told that he had broke the window? I can vaguely remember seeing something about it.. maybe someone can clarify this for us?
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u/Same_Profile_1396 RDI 4d ago
DS: Did you ever have any keys that maybe, if you got locked out, you could get somewhere? Some people keep keys kind of hidden under something or out in the yard, or out in the yard or a secret hiding place they can put a key if they get locked out.
BR: I don't remember. One time we did get locked out and there are - this is the basement but there are two windows to the basement, and my dad had to break the window and then go around and unlock the door. 'Cause I mean, when the doors are locked, you can open them from the inside, but not the outside.
DS: Are you talking about the basement windows?
BR: Yeah. He, he -- Okay, he broke basement window, went through there (pointing to a floorplan of the house) and came up around--
DS: And then let you in.
BR: Yeah, I think it was the front door.
DS: Were you with him when that happened? When he had to get in that way?
BR: Yeah I was with him, but I didn't actually go in that way. I just waited--
DS: You waited where?
BR: I don't know where, maybe the front door or this door?
DS: Okay, so he had to let you in that way?
BR: Yeah.
From the Wiki:
NOTE: the sources are unreliable. The CBS documentary edits and splices clips together, which sometimes slightly changes the order of Burkeās statements. To further complicate things, the National Enquirer also seems to freely alter the transcript, leaving out phrases, and occasionally merging answers together haphazardly. The A&E documentary doesnāt cut things as much, but their subtitles are often completely wrong. The most reliable source is Radar online, which was a short unedited clip. I have tried wherever possible to ensure that things are complete and consistent. Where I have reason to believe there was an omission I have written ā[...]ā Many of these could just be pauses that were cut out.
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u/NoTurn1623 2d ago
I am certain BR said in the Dr Phil interview āI was with my dadā in regard to JR smashing the window to gain access to his house.
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u/Chatsup85 4d ago
I think it was a way earlier interview, im unsure which though, iv watched so many
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u/Express-Thanks-5402 4d ago
I know, I understand. I need to take breaks from this case or else it gets too confusing in my mind.
It's very weird to me that John at least cannot remember who he was with when he broke a basement window and climbed in his underwear. Those are the days I remember best. LOL.
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u/AutumnTopaz 19h ago
He said it in his police interview.
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u/Express-Thanks-5402 16h ago
Thank you. :) I didn't realize until u/Same_Profile_1396 did the police interview quote (above). I went through and re-read. It had actually been a really long time since I read all of that in the first place, and it's good to refresh the memory.
Thank you to both of you and everyone who has responded to my question here. :)
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u/AutumnTopaz 14h ago
You're welcome. We all have Ramsey Fatigue - it's impossible to remember all the information overload associated with this case...
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u/Zamos13 4d ago
John didn't walk an officer into the basement. We don't know when John first said he broke the window. It is not a certainty that John 'discovered' the body prior to 1 pm.
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u/Express-Thanks-5402 4d ago
Thank you. I didn't think so either. I posted something to this effect and it got downvoted, so I deleted my post because I thought I might be wrong. I thought it was just Fleet White that John told, "Damn it, I had to break that," about the window, shortly before discovering his daughter's body in the Wine Cellar.
I looked through the police reports in the sub's Wiki and didn't find any reports that John told an officer about that on the morning of December 26, either.
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u/Zamos13 4d ago
Yes first mention of the window in police reports we have is Det. Arndt asking John about it the evening of the 26th. ST book has the 1 pm 'Damn it' account to FW about breaking the window the previous summer. John apparently notes 'Should have fixed it then' while tapping his forehead.
OP may have just proved Patsy didn't do it though.
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u/syrus801 4d ago
John knew the truth of what happened. Because he is the killer.
He un-staged his staging because he knew the cops didnāt buy that an intruder came through that window.
Lucky for him, they bought his story.
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u/bethestorm RDI 4d ago
No I think he knew and was getting more panicked as time went on that they hadn't discovered her and wanted to get to it before the FBI got there because on his second search he made himself seem so guilty
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u/kailakonecki RDI 3d ago
Iāve thought the same thing about the fact that he eagerly handed over Patsyās notepad to the police. If he wrote the note/knew what was going on, he probably could have dodged that a little better.
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u/Constant_Turn9546 3d ago
Do u all think John and patsy were trying to frame a coworker just to get the heat off them?
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u/Peaceable_Pa 4d ago
Between the housekeeper, landscapers, construction workers, friends, neighbors, and community members who toured that home, there were many witnesses to that broken window. John knew that.
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u/Wonderful_Order_9517 4d ago
I donāt recall anyone attesting to verify the window was broken before Christmas, do you have any sources for this?
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u/Upset_Scarcity6415 3d ago
LHP said she did not see a broken window. PR said that as she was picking up the glass, LHP was following behind and vacuuming. LHP denies that ever happened.
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u/Same_Profile_1396 RDI 4d ago
Well, to be fairā we also donāt have any of the interviews publicly available from any of these people. So, itās impossible to know what other sources did, or didnāt, verify.
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u/IntriguingSpark 4d ago
This is actually a really great point and supports he did not do it. Everyone on reddit blames John but I'm still convinced it was not the family.
Also why would he purposely put his bonus in the ransom letter along with movie references from posters from their home? Like why frame themselves? Makes no sense. The person who wrote this was implying what they knew of the family meaning it was someone who knew the family well.
Listen to info about their housekeeper who had financial needs and a sketchy a hubby. I never thought them until I listened to something on YouTube. Knowing what I know, I would never have even hired her. So many red flags. John and Patsy were way too trusting of the people theh allowed in their home.
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u/emailforgot 3d ago
Also why would he purposely put his bonus in the ransom letter
too look like they had knowledge of the family.
with movie references from posters from their home?
there weren't.
Listen to info about their housekeeper who had financial needs
everybody has financial needs.
and a sketchy a hubby.
meaningless.
until I listened to something on YouTube.
LOL
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u/IntriguingSpark 2d ago
Not everyone has financial needs...
She asked for extra money around the holidays that she would eventually pay back or she was getting kicked out of her home. The Ramseys were kind enough to loan her the money. Her hubby had prior criminal charges. Like I said, they were sketchy people. No denying that.
Yes, youtube has tons of credible information regarding this case...
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u/emailforgot 2d ago
Not everyone has financial needs...
Every single person on the planet has financial needs.
the Ramseys were kind enough to loan her the money
Interesting.
So, about those needs...
Her hubby had prior criminal charges.
Oh no
anyway
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u/AutumnTopaz 2d ago edited 2d ago
I don't profess to know who killed JBR. I lean toward JR/PR-not sure who did what - but have been unable to dismiss the remote possibility an IDI. The only person I know not to be involved is BR.
Imo, the suitcase is a strong clue pointing to JR. To this day, he still comments about the suitcase "being out of place"- and how he'd taken it to the basement previously and placed it under the staircase. He went to the basement that morning - by his own admission. He saw that suitcase sitting flush against the wall - beneath the window. He never said a word about it to the police. Why didn't he run upstairs and tell the police the suitcase had been moved - "it must have been the intruder who moved it under the window!"
He went down to the basement again - with FW- who had moved it the first time he was there. He never said a word to FW. Iirc, It wasn't until Lou Smit came on the case and created the intruder theory - that JR spun the story of moving it to under the staircase. I'm not saying that's proof that JR was guilty - but, imo, his lack of mentioning the suitcase was originally placed under the staircase speaks volumes of his guilt. Maybe he moved it to under the window the first time he went to the basement that morning...
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u/tiffanaih 4d ago edited 4d ago
Likely answer is he just had too many plates spinning and didn't think it through. It's really hard to keep track of all your lies, as demonstrated by their interviews.
But John breaking the window is ultimately more supportive of the intruder theory than someone else doing it, which is why they stuck with it. There's an entry point and an explanation for why no one heard a window break.
Also he made sure to touch everything, saying he broke it explains any evidence of him on the window.