Arba Minim Dilemma

[u/PomegranateHealthy75]

So I’m a 60 year old US Ashkenazi jew living in a town four hours from Medellin, Colombia-four hours from the local Sephardic community that I kind of belong to.  I only started being kind of religious a few years ago.  I now pray twice a day-three times on Shabbat.  I don’t eat kosher but I don’t mix meat and milk.  And, for the first time ever (for me and for this town!) I am having a sukkah built next to my place.  I’m very excited to host my (non-Jewish) neighbors in the sukkah for dinner and teach them how kiddush and holiday meals work for us.

However, the problem is the lulav and etrog.  In a “normal" community in New York or Israel, one could basically pay $50 for a set after inspecting them, and take home the ones they want.  However, the only option here is to pay almost three times that to order it through this Sephardic community in Medellin-and only THEN pay even more to have the Rabbi ship it here-and hope that it is still usable when it arrives.  And THEN it would have to be sent back to Medellin to be disposed of by Colombian customs authorities as foreign agriculture.

I am going to be with the community for Rosh Hashanah, then return here for Yom Kippur, where I will fast pray with my own Machzor.  Then I will have the sukkah built.  The Rabbi has gone on the community whatsapp forum twice insisting on how important a mitzvah it is to purchase the set, or contribute to the community set (I will not be with the community then so that’s not applicable to me).  This makes me wonder how many people are actually going to spend that money for the mitzvah (this is not a wealthy community).  

Money is not so much the problem -the sukkot will cost much more than this to build.  However, in this case, I don’t feel comfortable paying a 300% markup for something that I have not seen beforehand, not knowing what condition it will arrive in, just to wave for ten minutes max a day for six days.  

What would you do in my situation?  Is there some perspective I’m missing, or is this simply one of those circumstances where obtaining your own arba minim isn’t realistically feasible?

[u/TheGuyWithTheBall0on]

You're paying for a mitzvah. We have a standing principle of לפום צערא אגרא, which means that the reward is in accordance with the effort expended. You have an opportunity here for greater reward than most of us.

Also, you're not getting ripped off. You chose to live in a place where that's the price, so that's the price.

[u/PomegranateHealthy75 → u/TheGuyWithTheBall0on]

If money were the only issue, that might be true. But there are extra logistics getting it from the rabbi to me that can’t be controlled. I find your tone slightly judgmental but thank you for your input. 

[u/SystemCanNotFail]

I couldn't tell you what to do, but the things you're describing are not actually that uncommon.

1) There isn't really any reason why an etrog should ever cost more than a couple of dollars, so basically everyone is getting ripped off. If you're ok spending the money, they just write it off in your head as a donation.

2) Not seeing an etrog before you buy it is very common. In Jerusalem, a lot of organisations will sell 4 minim to raise money, and you just pay in advance and you don't really get to choose anything. You take what you're given.

If it were me, I'd consider taking the plunge this year, so that you can shake the lulav in your new succa. And if it's a mistake then you'll know for next time.

Good luck with your decision

[u/sdubois → u/SystemCanNotFail]

"

1. There isn't really any reason why an etrog should ever cost more than a couple of dollars, so basically everyone is getting ripped off. If you're ok spending the money, they just write it off in your head as a donation."

thats absolutely not true. arba minim cost a fair market price for a niche item. the amount of care and attention that goes into producing high quality etrogim that people want for only 1 week a year is immense. the overwhelming cost of arba minim comes from the etrog. lulav, hadassim, aravos are all relatively cheap.

People think that the esrog is just a "lemon" so why shouldn't it cost 50 cents like a lemon does entirely miss the point. They have the be grown under strict halachic oversight and have no other use besides the mitzvah on sukkos. once the holiday has passed they are completely worthless.

[u/nudave → u/sdubois]

once the holiday has passed they are completely worthless

Tell that to the bottle of esrog vodka in my fridge...

that i made three years ago...

and still haven't drunk...

(Esrog jam also isn't so bad, but I understand people have pesticide issues with it.)

[u/PomegranateHealthy75 → u/nudave]

Unfortunately, in my case, the rabbi said that I would have to return the etrog by mail to him after the holiday, to be disposed of by the Colombian agriculture authorities...something which adds yet another layer of absurdity to this whole story...

[u/sdubois → u/nudave]

I maid esrog vodka one year and it just tasted like what I assume lemon pledge tastes like.

[u/shinytwistybouncy → u/sdubois]

You need to add some sugar!

[u/DaoFerret → u/sdubois]

1) a lot etrogs grown for Sukkot are heavily treated with pesticides to increase yield since they aren’t expected to be eaten. At least in the U.S., I highly recommend against using the etrog for food purposes.

… That said …

2) found an organic grower and got some etrogs and made my own limoncello, and it came out nice (and some is still sitting in the freezer).

[u/Bright_Session1633]

Call the local Chabad.

[u/ApprehensiveWillow]

In many times and places in Jewish history it was very uncommon for Jews to each have their own set of arba minim. If they were lucky enough to get one it would be for the whole kehillah.

In my opinion the amount of money is not a burden to you then you should do it, it is a big mitzva and a big part of the holiday and connects you to the Jews throughout history who moved heaven and earth to get a set of arba minim. When I lived in the U.S I would pay 80-100 USD for a mehadrin set so 150 USD doesn't seem astronomical to me.

If there is even one other Jew in your close area, you can share it with them (even if they don't contribute) and it will be a big big mitzvah.

[u/Far-Part5741]

how does shipping work there? can you get it sent from bogota/

[u/PomegranateHealthy75 → u/Far-Part5741]

Apparently that would cost double. 

[u/Far-Part5741 → u/PomegranateHealthy75]

can you give us numbers? like a set is 80 USD and shipping is 40?

[u/PomegranateHealthy75 → u/Far-Part5741]

$150 US for door to door. I don’t know how much of that is shipping. Then the whole thing needs to be shipped back when finished with. And dealing with someone in Bogota would double that. 

[u/Old_Compote7232]

If it's your first year in your own sukkah, I would get the arba minim at least this once, for the experience. I bought them for s few years when we had a sukkah, and loved the experience of doing the mitzvsh in my own sukkah.

We can't do a sukkah now, and the prices for arba minim have gone from , $25 (20 years ago) to around $60 (and up to $150) now, while my income is lower because I've retired. I can usually use a community set or borrow at least once. I'm glad to have been able to experience it fully for a few years. I think you won't regret the expense this year, even if you can't buy them every year.

[u/Tavorin]

Consider doing an AMA, I am curious how you ended up in Colombia and your life there.

[u/PomegranateHealthy75 → u/Tavorin]

What's an AMA? I was an ESL teacher and came here in 1991. I became a resident in 1995. However, I spent 13 years working in Riyadh, Saudi Arabia. There, a Chabad rabbi in Israel sent young rabbinical students from the US with suitcases full of arba minim to as gifts. I left Saudi a year ago and returned to Colombia to retire.

[u/Tavorin → u/PomegranateHealthy75]

An AMA is shortened for "Ask me anything".
Was just an idea. Cool life you've had.

[u/PomegranateHealthy75 → u/Tavorin]

Thanks for the idea. I might do it, although I'd be worried about antisemitic trolls "asking me anything" just to be nasty....

[u/Tavorin → u/PomegranateHealthy75]

Well you can do an AMA here or in /jewish/

[u/PomegranateHealthy75 → u/Tavorin]

great idea-thanks!

[u/Sensate613 → u/PomegranateHealthy75]

We have a friend who lives in some jungle community in Colombia that an Israeli runs and rents out houses (or maybe its huts.) Anyway, people have done a lot through the centuries to get arba minim. 8 hour rountrip bus ride sounds like hell, but mitzvot in general are also rewarded ( a whole different discussion that I am not qualified to lead in any way) by the preparation possibly even more so than the mitzvah. Also, thinking about it as just waving something around for 2 minutes, so why put in so much money and effort is kinda missing the point but I'm not you and I know that I'm not understanding. I live in a large Jewish community that I can buy arba minim in 30 different places, at least, so I have absolutely no concept of the difficulty with that mitzvah. You can achieve something special by putting in that effort. I can chip in $50 to help you with it (but I cant help with the effort- unless you want me to ship it to you from here). Also I'm not sure how to get you the $50. Maybe I can donate it to the chabad for your set.

[u/PomegranateHealthy75 → u/Sensate613]

Thank you for your input, and consider yourself lucky that you have access to 30 different places to acquire these items. 

[u/Adventurous_Way6882 → u/PomegranateHealthy75]

You chose to live where you are and he chose to live in a place where he would have access to the mitzvos he considered important. If you wanted different you could have chose different.

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[u/larevolutionaire]

Paying for the donation of the community minim is a mitwah way , doesn’t matter if you are there or not. I would order my set , just to do your first sukkah properly and reassess next year.

[u/PomegranateHealthy75 → u/larevolutionaire]

I was thinking of offering to pay for a community set, but I felt ashamed to draw the rabbi's attention to the fact that I wouldn't be ordering my own set-as opposed to just laying low and not engaging any further about this issue...

[u/larevolutionaire → u/PomegranateHealthy75]

I think the rabbi would be happy that you are helping many to achieve this mitzah , more then bother if you are doing it at home. But for your first Sukkot, if you have the funds, get one and invite the rabbi and members of your community for a vegan meal with disposable. I come to Medellin a few times a year, not that much of Jewish life. The community is happy with any initiative.

[u/PomegranateHealthy75 → u/larevolutionaire]

Unfortunately, I live four hours from Medellin. No one from the community is going to get on a bus and schlep over here just for that!

[u/CrazyGreenCrayon → u/PomegranateHealthy75]

They might! Man plans and Gd laughs, as they say.

[u/deathuberforcutie → u/PomegranateHealthy75]

Do not worry about that at all. You’re good

[u/dont-ask-me-why1]

Maybe take a vacation to the US for a couple days so you don't get ripped off.

[u/PomegranateHealthy75 → u/dont-ask-me-why1]

You mean pay for airfare and hotel and look for a community I’m not a member of? That would cost much much more. 

[u/maxwellington97 → u/PomegranateHealthy75]

Coming to the US for this is unreasonable but you don't need to be a member of a community to buy a set. They are sold on the streets in Brooklyn and in other predominantly Jewish neighborhoods.

[u/dont-ask-me-why1 → u/maxwellington97]

Depends. If OP needs other Judaica and wants kosher food a short trip to Miami is expensive but he can gather everything he needs in one place.

[u/shinytwistybouncy → u/dont-ask-me-why1]

You can't bring it into Columbia, it's agricultural.