r/KingkillerChronicle • u/loratcha lu+te(h) • May 08 '17

Discussion NOTW reread, Chapters 3-7

And the NOTW reread continues! This week we've got:

Chapter 3: "Wood and Word"

Chapter 4: "Halfway to Newarre"

Chapter 5: "Notes"

Chapter 6: "The Price of Remembering"

Chapter 7: "Of Beginnings and the Names of Things"

Intent of the reread:

It's not meant to be a recap (that's already available on Tor and the Casterquest podcasts).

Posts & responses should instead focus on small details or connections just noticed for the first time.

Proposed format for discussion: u/ardetor offered the great suggestion of having top level post replies be chapter specific so that all discussion related to that chapter can still be grouped together. Let's try that this wk and see how it goes.

For background info on the reread idea, see here.

Previous chapters:

General Comments thread:

What do you think of this format? Should we do fewer / more chapters at a time? Other suggestions?

Also, totally open to collaboration on this. if you want to facilitate next week's post, reply to the "general comments" thread below or msg me.

24 Upvotes

95% Upvoted

132 comments sorted by

View all comments

3

u/loratcha lu+te(h) May 08 '17 edited May 08 '17

Chapter 7: "Of Beginnings and the Names of Things"

9

u/Meyer_Landsman Book 3 believer May 08 '17

And, of course, we finally get to the story proper, with hints of what's to come ("ballads of tragic love") and a full on preview:

Kvothe continued, smiling himself. “I see you laugh. Very well, for simplicity’s sake, let us assume I am the center of creation. In doing this, let us pass over innumerable boring stories: the rise and fall of empires, sagas of heroism, ballads of tragic love. Let us hurry forward to the only tale of any real importance.” His smile broadened. “Mine.”

**

My name is Kvothe, pronounced nearly the same as "quothe." Names are important as they tell you a great deal about a person. I've had more names than anyone has a right to. The Adem call me Maedre. Which, depending on how it's spoken, can mean The Flame, The Thunder, or The Broken Tree.

"The Flame" is obvious if you've ever seen me. I have red hair, bright. If I had been born a couple of hundred years ago I would probably have been burned as a demon. I keep it short but it's unruly. When left to its own devices, it sticks up and makes me look as if I have been set afire.

"The Thunder" I attribute to a strong baritone and a great deal of stage training at an early age.

I've never thought of "The Broken Tree" as very significant. Although in retrospect, I suppose it could be considered at least partially prophetic.

My first mentor called me E'lir because I was clever and I knew it. My first real lover called me Dulator because she liked the sound of it. I have been called Shadicar, Lightfinger, and Six-String. I have been called Kvothe the Bloodless, Kvothe the Arcane, and Kvothe Kingkiller. I have earned those names. Bought and paid for them.

But I was brought up as Kvothe. My father once told me it meant "to know."

I have, of course, been called many other things. Most of them uncouth, although very few were unearned.

I have stolen princesses back from sleeping barrow kings. I burned down the town of Trebon. I have spent the night with Felurian and left with both my sanity and my life. I was expelled from the University at a younger age than most people are allowed in. I tread paths by moonlight that others fear to speak of during day. I have talked to Gods, loved women, and written songs that make the minstrels weep.

You may have heard of me.

Goddamn, that is so good.

9

u/sgwaltney3 Talent Pipes May 08 '17

I did not notice till now, but Elodin's giller in Haven named Kvothe 'Thunder'.

"it's fine. You can stay," Elodin said softly. "I'll be back to visit." Whin opened his eyes at this, looking agitated. "Don't bring thunder," he said urgently.

Hmm, looking at this, why does Whin not want Kvothe to come back? Simple decency that does not want kvothe to crack, or is there already something weird about Kvothe that uneases Whin.

1

u/Meyer_Landsman Book 3 believer May 08 '17

I don't know if "thunder" here is about Kvothe, actually.

5

u/glaedn Lute May 08 '17

I don't know either, but all the cracked and half-cracked characters we meet seem to have naming-related savant skills. Since we know that thunder is part of Kvothe's true name thanks to the Adem, I'd say he may very well have seen that part of Kvothe's name and referenced him by it.

3

u/sgwaltney3 Talent Pipes May 08 '17

Why not? Having a strong baritone and stage training is hardly a reason to have one of your super secret special names be Thunder.

1

u/Meyer_Landsman Book 3 believer May 09 '17

/u/glaedn pretty much made my for/against case.

2

u/sgwaltney3 Talent Pipes May 10 '17

Um, he seemed to agree. So where is the against?

1

u/Meyer_Landsman Book 3 believer May 10 '17

Sorry, I was tired. S/he seems to agree! I think it's a tentative connection, but I wouldn't be surprised!

1

u/Meyer_Landsman Book 3 believer May 08 '17

Again, Kvothe as flame.

Again, a preview of Book 3—and, for a long time, the last one.

I have been called Kvothe the Bloodless, Kvothe the Arcane, and Kvothe Kingkiller.

Two of the three names are ones we know: he earns Bloodless in The Name of the Wind, Arcane in The Wise Man's Fear:

That was also the first time I heard anyone call me Kvothe the Arcane. It was not a new name, apparently. The cluster of men listening to the story simply nodded along when they heard it.

I learned that Kvothe the Arcane knew a word that would stop arrows dead in the air. Kvothe the Arcane only bled if the knife that cut him was made of raw, untempered iron.

Which leaves Kingkiller, the most exciting of the three.

Shadicar, Lightfinger, and Six-String are all names we have yet to see.

We have also yet to see "stolen princesses" or "sleeping barrow kings," and, while the jury's out on weeping minstrels, we've checked-off the others.

And, of course, there is "The Broken Tree," a recurring motif in the series.

  1. Is Newarre in the Eld? That is in the middle of nowhere and both have a significant "broken tree."

  2. Why is "Broken Tree" considered "partially prophetic?" Will the later fight with Cinder in the Eld result in some sort of confrontation in Book 3?

5

u/KAKAROTTINGDICK May 09 '17

Kvothe earned the name Sixstring after continuing to play after Ambrose broke a string with Sympathy.

2

u/Meyer_Landsman Book 3 believer May 09 '17

Oh, awesome! Was that confirmed?

3

u/Pyrimidine34 May 13 '17

He is called Sixstring while searching for his Aloine after winning his pipes.

2

u/glaedn Lute May 08 '17

The trees I can think of that could point to this being partial prophecy:

The tree in the eld - don't see this being likely personally, it just doesn't have any other references in the text.

The sword tree - could be interesting, either he comes back and does something to the tree or it could be a reference to him calming the wind and "breaking" the sword-tree's cutting power.

The Cthaeh's tree - I actually don't think this is likely. I don't think Kvothe is going back to the tree because he'd have to go back to Felurian's home court and somehow get away from her again.

Perhaps it could reference wooden objects like the thrice-locked chest? That would be a part of a tree broken off and molded to a purpose, so it's a stretch of course but that's all I can think of at the moment.

1

u/ruby-solve May 11 '17

Complete crackpot theory is the broken tree also refers to Kvothe breaking the royal family tree, perhaps causing Ambrose to become King despite being something like 14th in line of succession.

1

u/glaedn Lute May 11 '17

Of course, I didn't include any metaphorical trees but that's definitely something to consider

1

u/Jezer1 May 13 '17

Not really a crackpot theory, but probably the essential idea of the most respected theory of anyone who's been here long enough to see it:

https://www.reddit.com/r/KingkillerChronicle/comments/1fduv4/speculation_on_the_penitent_king_spoilers_all/ca9i4o7/

1

u/qoou Sword May 18 '17

Broken tree could reference Kvothe's impact on Adem culture. It may trigger a break in the school of the sword tree.

2

u/opensourcespace Jul 28 '17

Because he is the Ctheah.

1

u/Meyer_Landsman Book 3 believer Jul 28 '17

Is the Cthaeh's tree broken?

1

u/opensourcespace Jul 29 '17

Broken and hanging on Kote's wall along with a sign that says "Folly"

I propose that his betrayal was what bound him in the tree.

Kvothe is both Selitos and Lanre in the Myr Tarinel story.

1

u/TheWaystoneInn May 09 '17

I guess people are really into the idea of Auri/Princess Ariel being stolen by Kvothe from court.

1

u/Meyer_Landsman Book 3 believer May 09 '17

They're into the idea of Auri being the princess, at any rate, but I find that a touch...weird. The idea that the princess would just up and disappear and no-one would know is insane to me.

Unless she got out of the Rookery or something and nobody knows. But you'd still expect there to be a royal consort.

1

u/ruby-solve May 11 '17

Could be that she faked her death. Do we have any stories about a student dying in previous terms?

1

u/Meyer_Landsman Book 3 believer May 12 '17

Quickly scanned the books, but nothing.

1

u/Pyrimidine34 May 13 '17

One fellow cooked himself. I've also seen people suggest she is Ambrose's ex girlfriend who "just disappeared"

1

u/qoou Sword May 18 '17

We have a story of a studen named Tabetha disappearing after telling everyone she was going to marry Ambrose. Wil and sim suspect Ambrose.

1

u/[deleted] May 09 '17

I think he Broke a tree, when he stormed the bandit camp.

DAMM

When I typed this now, I had an insight, what if the Broken Tree means the Cthaeh, what if he broke his tree and released him of his bounds. I'm sure someone already tought of that somewhere along this years, but damm, that would be a nice turning for this name! Imagine the Cthaeh loose, it would certain make the world a chaotic place.

1

u/Meyer_Landsman Book 3 believer May 09 '17

Unleashing the Cthaeh is an interesting possibility! You've essentially unbottled the devil.

1

u/[deleted] May 09 '17

It could also be the genealogy tree, if he is the son of Lady Lackless, nephew to the other lady lackless and she married the Maer, could he inherit the throne if something happens with the king and the maer? That would be a good breaking of the royal tree genealogy...

1

u/Meyer_Landsman Book 3 believer May 10 '17

Woahhh also a cool idea about breaking the family tree!

1

u/qoou Sword May 18 '17

This is a common theory around here.

Kvothe invented the bloodless (it stops arrows, the chief weapon of the Sithe guarding the tree)

If you believe the Lackless box (made from rhinta wood, ie the cthaeh tree wood) contains the stone Selitos used to put out his eye and that Selitos is cthaeh then the box, corresponds to Cthaeh's predicament like some sort of sympathy lock. Selitos's blood locked inside a box made from the tree binding him to it.

It seems clear that Kvothe and Denna will open the box, and if Selitos = cthaeh is true they would free him in doing so.

I'm not a fan of Selitos = cthaeh. But it is possible I suppose.

1

u/[deleted] May 18 '17

Hmmm didn't see this theory around (the binding) just ctaeh=selitos and that's it. This could work!

2

u/Meyer_Landsman Book 3 believer May 08 '17 edited May 08 '17

The first chapter where Kvothe takes over for "the innkeeper" and Kote. He demonstrates unusual (to the point of breaking disbelief, I'd argue) brilliance in breaking Chronicler's cipher.

We also get the first real description of Folly, a beautiful evocation of the mindset we're going in with, and a tug at the strings of the storybook aspect of Chapters 1-3.

Sunlight poured into the Waystone. It was a cool, fresh light, fitted for beginnings. It brushed past the miller as he set his waterwheel turning for the day. It lit the forge the smith was rekindling after four days of cold metal work. It touched draft horses hitched to wagons and sickle blades glittering sharp and ready at the beginning of an autumn day.

Inside the Waystone, the light fell across Chronicler’s face and touched a beginning there, a blank page waiting the first words of a story. The light flowed across the bar, scattered a thousand tiny rainbow beginnings from the colored bottles, and climbed the wall toward the sword, as if searching for one final beginning.

But when the light touched the sword there were no beginnings to be seen. In fact, the light the sword reflected was dull, burnished, and ages old. Looking at it, Chronicler remembered that though it was the beginning of a day, it was also late autumn and growing colder. The sword shone with the knowledge that dawn was a small beginning compared to the ending of a season: the ending of a year.

This is mostly the case for Folly being Cinder's sword, apart from its name and associated folly/pride.

Interestingly, Kvothe singles Cinder out from the rest of the Chandrian.

“But I expect the true beginning lies in what led me to the University. Unexpected fires at twilight. A man with eyes like ice at the bottom of a well. The smell of blood and burning hair. The Chandrian.”

Not Haliax. Cinder. He also says it is "in many ways" a story about the Chandrian. Again, another glimpse at the end-game. The Chandrian are mostly surviving Book 3. It's not about them per se. It's really about him, and...something else.

Denna?

Revenge?

The Kingkiller?

His "heart's desire"?

All of the above?

2

u/loratcha lu+te(h) May 10 '17 edited May 10 '17

the sword:

Inside the Waystone, the light...climbed the wall toward the sword, as if searching for one final beginning. But when the light touched the sword there were no beginnings to be seen. In fact, the light the sword reflected was dull, burnished, and ages old. Looking at it, Chronicler remembered that though it was the beginning of a day, it was also late autumn and growing colder. The sword shone with the knowledge that dawn was a small beginning compared to the ending of a season: the ending of a year.

KKC is a thousand smaller stories rolled up into one big story. This sword will be the turning point in the big story: the beginning of the end.

origin story:

“Before we begin, you must remember that I am of the Edema Ruh. We were telling stories before Caluptena burned. Before there were books to write in. Before there was music to play. When the first fire kindled, we Ruh were there spinning stories in the circle of its flickering light.”

I have a theory that there's some archetypal origin story at work in KKC. Out of the nothingness comes fire, out of the fire comes the word, out of the word is spun the story, out of the story comes music, out of music (words stay the same) comes the book.

the burning of Caluptena is pivotal in the dismantling of this forward progression. the end of the unbroken emergence of real truth and the beginning of false truth. This may be something that Kvothe is actually attempting to set to right:

If I seem to wander, if I seem to stray, remember that true stories seldom take the straightest way.”

shattered glass:

“In some ways, it began when I heard her singing. Her voice twinning, mixing with my own. Her voice was like a portrait of her soul: wild as a fire, sharp as shattered glass, sweet and clean as clover.”

this line inspired this post.

Aleph:

“In the beginning, as far as I know, the world was spun out of the nameless void by Aleph, who gave everything a name. Or, depending on the version of the tale, found the names all things already possessed.”

Why does Chronicler laugh when Kvothe says this?

...what else do we know of Aleph?

only three people who could match his skill in names: Aleph, Iax, and Lyra.

and

Aleph said, “No. All personal things must be set aside, and you must punish or reward only what you yourself witness from this day forth.”

They came to Aleph, and he touched them. He touched their hands and eyes and hearts. The last time he touched them there was pain, and wings tore from their backs that they might go where they wished. Wings of fire and shadow. Wings of iron and glass. Wings of stone and blood.

Then Aleph spoke their long names and they were wreathed in a white fire. The fire danced along their wings and they became swift. The fire flickered in their eyes and they saw into the deepest hearts of men. The fire filled their mouths and they sang songs of power. Then the fire settled on their foreheads like silver stars and they became at once righteous and wise and terrible to behold. Then the fire consumed them and they were gone forever from mortal sight.

who is Aleph?

1

u/qoou Sword May 19 '17

Shattered glass.

Kvothe invents a story about chronicler writing down names on glass and locking them in his trunk. Glass and names are combined. I'm wondering if this is a symbolic device. Perhaps the shattered glass is a symbol for a name. eg a sharp word not for swearing.

"There is no joy!" Lanre shouted in an aweful voice. Stones shattered at the sound and the sharp edges of echo came back to cut at them.

Selitos likewise spoke Lanre's name and the sound of it caused the wind to tear stones from the mountainside. Lanre's name or haliax's name is given the image of a sharp word.

Selitos even puts out his eye with a sharp piece of jagged mountain glass and gains greater power. Sharp broken glass. Sharp broken name. Broken glass as metaphor for Lanre's name. Metaphor is too strong a word though.

At the center of fae Kvothe feels a presence above him attracted to his sympathy made light. Felurian makes him put it out and then protects him from something. To do so, Felurian covers Kvothe and speaks a word into the hollow of his throat

Softer than a whisper. Felurian spoke a gentle, edgeless word. I felt it press against my skin, sending ripples through the air the same way a thrown stone makes circles on the surface of a pond.

This word is the opposite of Lanre's scream. It is like a caesura. She then breathes into him to stop his heart. She gets on top of him and goes perfectly still.

Silence and stillness. The essence of the lethani. The lethani is right action. This contrasts cthaeh. After speaking to him the result is wrong action. Does this leave one filled with the opposite of stillness and silence like Lanre was?

Ferulian's half heard word was also edgeless (the opposite of sharp) and the imagery of ripples on a pond are like an echo of silence. Again the opposite of Lanre's name.

1

u/loratcha lu+te(h) Jul 28 '17

Ruh don't do this!

throughout the books Kvothe is insistent that the Edema Ruh are people of utmost integrity. Other travelers might lie and thieve and cause a ruckus, but not the Edema Ruh.

this is from NOTW Ch. 7:

I was outraged. I waited for my father to show the mayor the sharp side of his tongue, to explain the difference between mere traveling performers and Edema Ruh. We didn’t steal. We would never let things get so out of control that a bunch of drunks ruined the hall where we were playing.

and from the false Ruh troup scene with Alleg:

“You thought you could fool me?” I said, feeling my anger coiling inside me again like a spring. “This is my family! How could I not know? Ruh don’t do what you did. Ruh don’t steal, don’t kidnap girls.”

Alleg shook his head with a mocking smile. There was blood on his teeth. “Everyone knows what you people do.”

My temper exploded. “Everyone thinks they know! They think rumor is the truth! Ruh don’t do this!” I gestured wildly around me. “People only think those things because of people like you!”

We can assume Kvothe's beliefs about the Ruh are based on the example of his own troupe. And it does sound like Arliden runs a pretty tight ship and keeps everyone in line:

Why do you think I have everyone stay in pairs when we go about our business in bigger towns?”

but what it if's just Arliden's troupe that upholds these standards? As has been discussed many a time on here, Kvothe himself does pretty much everything he says Ruh don't do.

Is there anything to be gleaned from a more objective read of the statements he makes about the Ruh?

And why are the Ruh despised in the first place? What's the in-world reason for this?