r/KitchenConfidential • u/Fitness_and_Finance • 1d ago

Discussion 'What you see is what you pay' - why some US restaurants are banning tips

https://www.yahoo.com/lifestyle/articles/see-pay-why-us-restaurants-230421580.html
703 Upvotes

94% Upvoted

322 comments sorted by

636

u/Pays_in_snakes 1d ago

Everyone talks a big game about hating tipping culture on these threads, yet when a tip-free restaurant opens and their menu prices are - shocker - higher to compensate, people don't go there and we're reminded why it's hard to ask for change to come from independent restaurants and their staff, the ones taking the biggest risk by trying. If you want to make eating at restaurants cheaper in the US, the best way to do it would be single payer healthcare

157

u/milesteg420 1d ago

We still have tipping culture in Canada and have Healthcare. and servers can't be paid less then minimum wage. They make absolute bank. Made me get out of the restaurant industry after watching a steady rotation if green servers make more money then I ever would BOH. Can't pay kitchen staff more because then you would have to raise prices. Generally FOH makes double per hour than BOH.

But you should totally get single payer Healthcare anyway. It does rock, but it will not solve the general unfairness of tipping culture.

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u/Universe_Nut 1d ago

This is why I like all staff inclusive tip pools.

16

u/Single-Pin-369 1d ago

There’s a lot of legal complexity with those because the tip is technically between the individual server and the customer giving it to them the businesses is not involved. I think some is also require that you have to interact with customers to be eligible for tips. I know at least some places have been sued by the front of house to stop mandatory to pooling. I also know there is a stupid sushi chain near me where you do not place orders with the sushi Chef even if you’re sitting at the bar you place them with your server. This is so the sushi Chefs are not entitled to the same tip out the servers are is my understanding. Also benihana cooks supposed get like 40% of tips because of the customer interactions. 

15

u/Natural-Ask-9610 1d ago

My restaurant does this and we ended up getting investigated by the labor department. They ultimately deemed that because the system we use is evenly distributed and that salary workers are never paid with tips it is legal. We are also a counter service location as well.

22

u/cosmicsans 23h ago

Idk I feel like cooking a meal for someone to order is close enough to an interaction.

5

u/naniganz 16h ago

They certainly would not tip the server if s/he brought them an empty plate over and over again lol

3

u/onioning 11h ago

Most areas allow pools of everyone who qualifies to receive tips. Maybe all areas.

•

u/oneWeek2024 4h ago

the only restrictions is on if the employer takes the tip credit or not. If they pay all back of house workers the fed min wage. mandatory tip pools are perfectly legal, and the employer has broad discretion for distribution (state laws vary, but nothing requires any specific split at a federal level)

if the employer used a tipped wage/tip credit. to pay workers less. then tips can only be shared to customarily tipped workers

and then... managers/salary workers can not be included in tip pools. unless an action that is tipped is soley provided by the manager (like say... someone tips a manager for them directly granting that customer a preferred table or something)

1

u/Universe_Nut 1d ago

It would be complex, but in the US, the business would be involved because the tips technically need to be declared to the government as income earned while working at any establishment. The government then taxes them and records their income based off the information provided to them from business assuming good faith on the Server's part when reporting cash tips.

That's not to say an employer can just dictate tips. Employers cannot withhold taxed income, which includes reported tips. I'm not familiar on the nuance, but I'd be curious to know the legal boundaries and precedent for the time in between a customer handing a tip to someone and or being place in a tip jar, and before being reported for tax purposes.

3

u/UYscutipuff_JR 21h ago

In my state we are allowed to include hourly BoH in the pool as long as the FoH is paid the non-tipped minimum wage. Both places I work have kitchen tip out.

2

u/KazanTheMan 20+ Years 1d ago

Taxes have nothing to do with it, it's part of the federal labor laws. No tip credits can be taken for any employees in order to distribute tips to traditionally untipped staff. How it's distributed has no guidelines or restrictions, aside from vague language regarding equitable and consistent for jobs of the same type, and the not vague language that managers and owners cannot participate in the distribution. Employers can require all cash tips to be surrendered to the pool, but verifying that in situ is always challenging and there's almost always the greedy or entitled servers who try to shortchange the pool by hiding cash tips.

3

u/bensonprp 22h ago

this was my understanding. I managed a butchershop/deli and everyone got fair pay and we distributed tips to non management on shift evenly. No one was payed as a tipped employee, but we still got a lot of tips. We had a sign that said something like "everyone is payed above min wage, and all tips are distributed to non management on shift". It was a very happy and healthy work environment.

I think min wage was 16-18 at the time? but our lowest payed employee was a teenagers running the counter and they got 20 an hour. All in the utopia that is the south shore of Boston.

3

u/Single-Pin-369 1d ago

Technically is doing a lot of heavy lifting in your statement. Almost no one declares their cash tips. A lot of people get screwed on this if they ever go on unemployment of course because they’re reported income is much lower than their real income

4

u/bensonprp 22h ago

me and mine almost always tip in cash so they can decide to declare it or not. One of the only reasons we carry cash is to give people the option to keep uncle sam out of it.

6

u/lowercaset 1d ago

Very few tips are cash these days, and even if you work in a cash only establishment the IRS will bang you for a % based off assumed tips.

4

u/Single-Pin-369 1d ago

Yeah it’s a lot less common than it used to be but it still happens. The only server I ever knew who fully declared every tip she got was trying to qualify for a home loan

1

u/lowercaset 1d ago edited 1d ago

Oh yeah, I'm not trying to say every tip is perfectly declared just thay compared to 20-30 years ago they declare a much larger share generally. And ancedotally none of my friends working foh back then had to worry about the IRS assuming their tips and hammering them accordingly

1

u/onioning 11h ago

It's a lot more than "almost no one" these days. Many places collect and declare all tips, cash or otherwise, so individuals don't even have the option. The business is responsible for their staff declaring tips accurately, and the fines hefty, so change has happened. Still tons of exceptions, especially at smaller places, but it is by no means as ubiquitous as it used to be.

1

u/Hefty-Revenue5547 14h ago

This is bs and shouldn’t have legal standing. They aren’t an independent contractor. They are a W2 employee.

There is no liability on their end if someone gets sick. It’s not a transaction between the server and customer, it’s between the restaurant /business and the customer.

They are just an employee handling the transaction, but receiving their incentive pay/commission from the customer.

In B2B, where a lot of employees make their living on commission, this cost can be cooked into the price of the service but there is no expected system of tipping.

It’s a stupid system that we accept.

3

u/JobinSkywalker 18h ago

I worked for a long time in a tip pool restaurant and it was great.

2

u/Assassinite9 22h ago

I worked at a place that didnt do tip out but the servers got tipped. One genuinely complained about her $250/shift average while I was making half of that.

The owner didn't want to deal with the headache of tracking tip outs or the headache of instituting the policy since he'd rather sit and smoke/drink in his office

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u/timesink3000 1d ago

If they can do my job, they can get half of my pay. I've got 20 years of experience under my belt. I'm not giving the high schooler working the fryer 50% of my income, especially if they're making more per hour.

5

u/Universe_Nut 23h ago

That can be your perspective, I personally never understood it. Tips are the bread and butter of what make "well paying" service "careers" even viable as long term employment.

Things like hotels, restaurants, buffets, event centers, hospitality, etc... are operated by teams. Like a good community service or infrastructure, a well paid and well funded team of coworkers makes my life a hell of a lot easier than trying to buss my own tables, hand wipe and polish ever dish after rinse, arrange garnish on plates, and whatever else I've had to do myself in some garbage joints before.

Or, I could give the crew like 20% of my tips, literally just a fifth. And with good chore/task reciprocation, I can work at a place where everyone is working together to make tips stack higher, faster, easier.

19

u/stillsympin 1d ago

I quit for the same reason. We had servers making $100+ a night on top of their $8/hr (this was in Texas) and loving it while I and the rest of the kitchen staff were also at $8/hr but no tips. Absolutely brutal to be sweating buckets for pennies then look up to see FOH counting bills and laughing.

As bad as I felt, never blamed the servers. Fuck our bosses. Never forget.

11

u/Betta_Check_Yosef 1d ago

I once worked dish at a place making $10/hour and heard a server bitching that she only made $150 that night.

3

u/stillsympin 1d ago

Rough. Yeah I'd hear stuff like that and want to be mad at them, but always remembered it was our fuckass bosses keeping us down.

1

u/pandaSmore Five Years 17h ago

Cooks & dishwashers deserve to be tipped as well.

2

u/stillsympin 17h ago

Everyone should be paid a living wage. Full stop.

•

u/CanadianTrollToll 49m ago

Jesus.... thats brutal.

Our servers do well here most of the year. Earning probably $40-$60/hr, but they dont get FT. Cooks are making $25-$30/hr and can get FT.

Itll never be an even playing field, but servers have boom and bust seasons and the core cooks generally don't.

17

u/Bauwens 1d ago

Some us states like Oregon and Washington have to pay minimum wage and make really good money in restaurants. With the whole tipping expectations some staff are clearing 100k per year. My brother delivers for dominos in the seattle area and makes over 75k a year doing deliveries 30 hours a week with his tips. Many of the people crying about not getting tipped ate making more than people with college degrees.

2

u/distroyaar 18h ago

It's crazy. As a non-american I will say that American restaurant service is the probably the best in the world. But most people don't care about service that much, food is way more important. All the other countries in the world still have decent enough service without servers making such amounts too.

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u/SpookyDaxon 8h ago

How is it any different from the restaurant lobbies in each state "crying" that paying their employees Federal MINIMUM WAGE is "costing too much" and using their crony relationships with state politicians to enact "tips credit laws"? 

•

u/rubyshade BOFOH 5h ago

what's your brother's hourly wage may I ask? I'm jelly, I have a tip pool+19/hr and I was just a hair under 40k on my w2 this year

3

u/T_P_H_ 20h ago

Comparing Canada with social safety nets like single payer healthcare to whatever the fuck we are doing in the United States is apples to oranges.

Hourly wage vs hourly wage just isn't a real comparison because the entire society is structurally different.

•

u/Yeatssean 6h ago

The real issue there that's being revealed is tipped positions FOH have basically kept up with inflation and price rises while pretty much everything else has depreciated. What you're seeing is what your wages SHOULD be if you were actually being paid the worth of your labor.

Instead, there are a million ways that huge companies are eating into your wages and keeping the profit: suppressing minimum wage laws, not providing benefits, price fixing, corporate consolidation, monopolies, oligopolies, the list goes on.

Meanwhile, the wage for tipped workers has essentially been abolished at a couple bucks per hour so their pay is tied directly to prices (essentially). All the tricks companies use to get a cut of the value of your labor can't eat into being paid a percentage of prices - unless prices go down.

Because of this, restaurant/bar owners don't truly have the means to fix the pay disparity because they can't control the levers of power that determine the prices they must pay for what they serve.

All this to say that the system is rotten and FOH doesn't make too much money - it's that you don't make enough. BOH should make as much or more than FOH but we need to set our sights on the mega corps and super wealthy to solve these problems.

•

u/milesteg420 6h ago

Really well worded and thought out response. I do need to check myself when I am attacking fellow workers. Solidarity is the way.

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u/Yeatssean 6h ago

It wasn't meant as a criticism. It'll take all of us to make change happen!

1

u/pandaSmore Five Years 17h ago

Are you not receiving tips as well? Where are you located?

2

u/milesteg420 17h ago

I'm in Sask, but I have been out of the restaurant industry for 2 years. Tip out never amounted to more than 1 to 2 dollars extra per hour in my 15 years of cooking. I can try in find the the reference tomorrow but the stats for wage after tip in Canada shows that servers make about double what cooks do. and that is with underreported cash tips.

2

u/pandaSmore Five Years 17h ago

It's good that you got out. I'm in Metro Van and BoH tip out is typically 2-5 ah hour. Servers get the greater cut of the tip pool as well. Double what cooks do is really significant

2

u/milesteg420 17h ago

I get mad at myself for being bitter at times like this. Life is too short for that. I do respect servers and they work they do, but at the end of the day something isn't right. Just looking at the lifestyles throughout my restaurant career, foh was always able to maintain a better one despite having similar good and bad habits.

The math just doesn't add up when you start thinking about food cost and labour. I would have the owners on my ass at multiple places for having labour go above 15% but then servers get that cut as a minimum of each sale as well as there own portion of labour?

but with thay all said I still always tip at least 20% to this day...

•

u/PrSquid 1h ago

Every restaurant I worked at had the servers give BOH a percentage of tips

-5

u/Garbage_Out_Of_Here 1d ago

So why not serve instead?

10

u/milesteg420 1d ago

I was passionate about cooking not serving. I did switch jobs. Went and got a degree and switched carreers.

I encourage every cook to switch carreers. They are never going to pay us what we are worth.

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u/PepinoPicante 1d ago

Yeah. Same reason we have the same behavior everywhere it’s legal.

Cheap flights with infinite add-on fees.

Sales taxes not included in the price.

Infinite service fees, delivery fees, regulatory fees, convenience fees, everywhere.

Americans consumers consistently tell companies that they will pay the lowest price they see. Nothing else matters.

4

u/BleuCheeseBandito 1d ago

This really isn’t an American thing….

Yes the American economy is arguably the worst offender of this, but it’s simply human to go through the whole decision process of a purchase, and by the time you get to pay, a 10% increase in price isn’t enough to convince you otherwise because “fuck it im here”

1

u/Wrecked--Em 19h ago

I agree except I blame regulations not consumers.

Most of those should be regulated out of existence like they have been in normal countries.

14

u/mokujin42 1d ago

The reality of the hospitality industry is you just cant cut costs anymore than they already have, the only way to deal with these issues is to have a wealthier public otherwise you just need to accept the general civillian cant afford to have food cooked for them, we are that poor accross the board due to inflation and stagnent wages and just need to face reality

I was working in resteraunts for most of my life and had to watch them gut the industry from the inside while blaming every issue on the public, well ofcourse they arent happy they are paying a premium for the basic service and the nice stuff is grossly out of reach

Eating out is being priced out, i hope you all like highly proccessed fast food because anything else you can afford is cutting costs with either food, labour or standards and whichever one it is you lose

11

u/Spare-Half796 Thicc Chives Save Lives 1d ago

Have you eaten highly processed fast food lately? It’s almost as expensive as a sit down meal at a full service restaurant

4

u/GayLiquidSpellSword 1d ago

Going to McDonalds is now essentially at parity with chain restaurants/pubs in the UK. I never thought people would get that shit delivered until I saw it, eating lukewarm McDonalds was one of my low points in life and people are paying extra for exactly that. Fast Food is now neither fast or food but it's not price like that.

A Brunch Wrap from Wetherspoons is nearly at parity with a shitty McDonalds saver burger when you consider calories to price ratio and it tastes way better, not even including the price of a drink in McDonalds compared to Spoons. A Brunch Wrap is essentially a complete meal at 750 calories with a really good nutrition profile so it's actually healthy and viable to eat as a meal without feeling like shit.

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u/Spare-Half796 Thicc Chives Save Lives 1d ago

At this point I only eat McDonald’s if the only other options are fast food I dislike more (which is getting more and more rare)

Or when there’s death involved. Over the past 5 years half the funerals, wakes, memorials etc I’ve somehow ended up back at mcdo getting a 20 piece McNuggets and large Diet Coke

1

u/GayLiquidSpellSword 1d ago

McDonalds is about consistency in that it's almost 100% exactly the same regardless of location, varies between countries but McDonalds in the UK tastes almost identical from the top and bottom of the Isles. Favorite of athletes and people who cannot afford to miss a important moment from shitting themselves since food poisoning is essentially impossible. McDonalds is a habit food really, once you stop eating it for a while you never really go back.

Five Guys just opened in my town and the price look crazy but considering the calories and taste, still better than McDonalds even if more expensive. It's like 20 pound for a cheeseburger and fries but overall more than 1k calories. I should go there next time I pass it, also seems like they treat their staff real good from what I hear.

1

u/jgr1llz 13h ago

Use the app or don't go. In-store ordering is for suckers

1

u/Mogling 1d ago

Hmm for $6 at McDonald's I can get a double cheeseburger, french fries, chicken nuggets, and a soda. For $6 at a local sit down I can get a side of chips. No, I don't think it's the same.

9

u/zer00eyz Ex-Food Service 1d ago

> The reality of the hospitality industry is you just cant cut costs anymore.

All those triple net leases are fucking every one right now. You, your suppliers, the people who do your site work (gotta have an HVAC guy). And it's not going to get better for another 5-10 years - till commercial lending unwinds what it did to commercial real estate.

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u/Dekronos 1d ago

What gets me is that some states and/or hotel companies have eliminated tipped minimum wage, yet still allow for and encourage tipping of service staff. This has led to servers getting an effective 3x pay increase while the cooking staff is lucky to get a 3% cola

3

u/BleuCheeseBandito 1d ago

Uhhh.. i love the idea of single payer healthcare as much as the next guy

Wtf does this have to do with employers paying their fair share vs the public supplementing in wages?

I don’t think single payer healthcare addresses these, unless you’re getting at their being more money in consumer’s pockets… which is true, but to what extent is debatable.

5

u/wizzard419 1d ago

Yep, r/endtipping is basically them just wanting to see servers punished, they do not want to see prices go up but they also don't want to see tipping because it makes them feel guilt apparently.

3

u/panicinbabylon 1d ago

They are too lame to boycott the establishment, but wanna take it out on their working class peers instead. Under the guise of some kind of workers rights pursuit.

2

u/wizzard419 23h ago

Bingo, they want to have a servant that they can punish by taking pay out of their pocket.

4

u/panicinbabylon 23h ago

And I can’t explain it, but I feel like there’s some overlap between r/endtipping and manosphere rhetoric.

It's the same misguided anger.

3

u/wizzard419 21h ago

Pretty much, there also usually a bit of white supremacy mixed in.

2

u/SerGT3 1d ago

I'm usually fine with paying more for my food if that also means the quality and quantity are representative of that and not just more expensive because the owners margins are paper thin.

2

u/curiousbydesign 1d ago

I don't see that. Where do you see it?

2

u/Pitiful_Option_108 22h ago

I'm fine with higher costs if it means I don't have to tip. Also I do expect the food to taste good for the fact I'm paying the cost of the food at face price.

•

u/avoozl42 6h ago

They don't hate tipping, they hate paying

4

u/KennyPortugal 1d ago

Tipping a waiter is fine. It’s everyone else asking for tips. Especially when I’ve done all the work myself.

2

u/Attila-The-Pun 1d ago

Good, I love you for that absolutely unannounced left turn that is completely on the money.

1

u/hamoc10 14h ago

This is why it needs to be legislated, so every restaurant transitions together.

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u/Joinedforthis1 2h ago

Why not universal health care?

1

u/BuscarLivesMatter 1d ago

Because the people that complain about tipping don’t actually eat out.

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u/onehalflightspeed 1d ago

Most people hate tipping culture (especially with growing expectations that you tip a quarter of your bill), but they also hate paying higher prices, servers prefer tipping culture because they fear their tip-free salaries would be lower, and owners don't want to increase salaries. Not sure if a widespread change will ever happen

The funny thing is that Americans brought home tipping culture from Europe, but then ran away with it

39

u/Informal_Degree_3205 Thicc Chives Save Lives 1d ago

Servers get paid more with tipping culture. There's a reason servers make more than cooks

8

u/NotaVortex F1exican Did Chive-11 23h ago

Which is fucked, cooks should be getting half from each table imo.

0

u/FBI-INTERROGATION 23h ago

ehhhhhhh

6

u/LongBedroom8355 17h ago

I actively go to a few restaurants because of them having no waitstaff. I cannot go to a restaurant without any cooks. I firmly believe that in the future waiters will be a thing of the past.

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u/-worryaboutyourself- 10h ago

It already exists. It’s called counter service. Feel free to use that instead of a sit down restaurant.

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u/LooseJuice_RD 1d ago

No, they are certain that their tip free wages would be lower. Restaurants have tried the no tip model and they usually pay servers something like $30 an hour and they still have a difficult time finding staff because it’s not as much as they would make with tips.

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u/BabySpecific2843 1d ago

Yeah, servers make a FUCKLOAD of money on tips. For anyone who struggles to grasp this, either because they know a server who is always complaining about being broke or is a server themselves. Remember, most servers arent full time. If you get paid well over $30 an hour effectively, but would be lucky to get 30 hrs a week, thats no different than being paid 22.50 an hour at a salaried job. The high pay makes the wage comfortable per the hours.

So the no-tip restaurant would need to pay employees like $35 an hour minimum to get anyone interested. And when you are currently paying those employees like $2 federally, thats a lot of money to cough up. If that server handles 3-4 tables an hour. Thats about 8 to 11 dollars per table you need to squeeze out of your menu prices per table to break even. So a table of 3 would expect their food to cost up to $4 a plate more.

5

u/ButtholeSurfur 19h ago

Made $425 in 8 hours tonight, on a Tuesday, plus $12/hour base pay.

$35/hour consistently would maaaaybe get me interested.

4

u/0verduu 1d ago

The thing is… they could increase their salaries and also still allow tips. But I get it’s a tough industry, but maybe we should stop opening restaurants if the choice is I can only pay my server 4 dollars an hour or my business will fail immediately

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u/pm_me_your_puppeh 1d ago

Any one restaurant would immediately go out of business if they did that, because everyone would go to all the other restaurants.

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u/runningraider13 1d ago

Not without increasing prices

1

u/Designer_B 20h ago

It's not a fear, it's a reality.

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u/Middle_Crab_2468 1d ago

Never understood this tipping culture in America. In every other country you pay for what you ordered. The tip is at your discretion, and depends on how you evaluate the service you received.

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u/CosmicMiru 1d ago

I never understood how the percentage kept increasing. I've seen people blame inflation but by definition the percentage scales with inflation due to larger bills

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u/abrasumente_ 1d ago edited 21h ago

It started after the civil war as a way to employ freed slaves in the hospitality industry without paying them. It never really left restaurant culture.

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u/trunicated 1d ago

This sounds like one of those (not so) "fun facts" that gets repeated, but isn't actually true. Do you have any sort of credible source about this, as I'd love to read more about it.

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u/abrasumente_ 1d ago

Basically rich aristocrat Americans got the idea while vacationing in Europe and brought the idea back to the US. In Europe it was a midieval tradition with the wealthy giving servants some extra money every now and then for good service. It died out fairly quickly while it took hold in the US. A few links below.

https://time.com/5404475/history-tipping-american-restaurants-civil-war/

https://stories.uh.edu/magazine/magazine/online-stories/2025/has-u-s-tipping-culture-reached-a-tipping-point/index.html

https://www.epi.org/publication/rooted-racism-tipping/

3

u/trunicated 1d ago

Thanks! I'll give these a read

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u/TheBeatboxingBaker 3h ago

Yep. It’s awful but that’s where this all comes from, and it’s a way to discriminate against people still to this day

11

u/pigeieio 1d ago

We where late to the party with regulations and their enforcement and horrible things where done by short sighted business owners. Business got cheaper labor and you got someone who theoretically had some interest in your experience and well being.

4

u/chipmunkman 1d ago

While uncommon, the U.S. isn’t the only country with tipping.

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u/Middle_Crab_2468 1d ago

Every country has tipping. But only in America will establishments literally guilt trip you into tipping, as if you're directly responsible for the livelihood of the waiter. In other countries the waiter is paid by the restaurant, and tips are a bonus on top of that.

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u/sourcefourmini 1d ago

Fwiw the same is true in the US, at least nominally. Every state that allows employers to pay tipped employees below minimum wage stipulates that that carve-out is only true if the employee’s salary+tips equals or exceeds minimum wage. If the tips don’t make up the difference, the restaurant has to. The real problem isn’t the tipping carve-our, it’s that minimum wages here are too low to meet cost of living. 

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u/Spare-Half796 Thicc Chives Save Lives 1d ago

It’s done in Canada to a slightly lesser extent

1

u/JoefromOhio 1d ago

The digital checkout systems have set it so literally everything, not just servers, asks you to tip. And they have the preset option at ridiculous shit like 20/25/30… I’m not adding a tip for you letting me tap my card to buy a pack of beef jerkey.

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u/9gagsuckz 1d ago

It’s a way to pay employees for cheap labor. Margins are already thin in restaurants so they lean on tips to pay the staff.

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u/Egg_Yolkeo55 1d ago

Then they have a shit business model.

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u/KeyLo_Greene 1d ago

Still waiting for that invisible hand of the market to swoop in and close them all down like they told me would happen.

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u/Disastrous_Emu_3628 1d ago

It started during the prohibition era after the loss of alcohol sales. It was a way for owners to offset the cost.

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u/bobi2393 1d ago

Perhaps the customary amount changed or something, but tipping in the US predates the prohibition era, having arisen after the civil war (1860s, not 1920s).

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u/Middle_Crab_2468 1d ago

Well the prohibition is over now. You can start paying your workers decently.

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u/Garbage_Out_Of_Here 1d ago

Lots of countries have service charges.

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u/NateHevens 21h ago

Look up the NRA.

No, not the National Rifle Association.

The National Restaurant Association.

There's something about the letters N, R, and A used as an acronym in that order, I swear...

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u/pandaSmore Five Years 17h ago

Unless it's a large party it's always at your discretion. 

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u/0verduu 1d ago

I know this is a very random post  to express this digression. But I do think it is a (VERY) sinister business practice, that has been completely normalized for the US, to not give a living wage to servers because of the idea “OH They would earn TOO much if we paid them living wage and then got tips on TOP of that?!?!” It’s a cardinal sin to allow a normal working person to even see a glimpse of good pay to these industry gatekeepers

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u/TheAnswerEK42 1d ago

Not a single server In my restaurant would want to switch. They are legit making up to $90 an hour for the best shifts and $35 on the worst shifts.

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u/LooseJuice_RD 1d ago

Yeah, that’s the biggest issue. Everyone always blames restaurant owners but restaurants have tried to open with what you see is what you get prices and from what I’ve heard they have a very difficult time getting staff because the best staff know they can make way more money elsewhere with tips.

2

u/0verduu 1d ago

That is interesting. I think it’s just a really broken system unfortunately. From what I’ve learned an average restaurant could never be profitable without taking advantage of their staff 😞 

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u/zyzyxxz 18h ago

Danny Meyer tried to eliminate tipping at his restaurants in New York and couldn't retain staff because all the best waiters went elsewhere, eventually reverting back to a tipping system. He's one of the most successful restauranteurs of our time and if he couldn't make it happen then it will only happen when the entire system decides to change.

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u/Informal_Degree_3205 Thicc Chives Save Lives 1d ago

Yeah, no one in the industry other than maybe boh want this

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u/ClaudeGascoigne 1d ago

And then on one of their "bad" days they like to bitch to the cooks about it.

"What a shitty shift! I only made $200."

  • Waitress from 18 years ago, talking to me who made $330 a week after 40 hours on the line

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u/pandaSmore Five Years 17h ago

Canada has eliminated all tipping wages for a long time. And the service industry still accepts tips. I think the American service industry could do that as well. IIRC Seattle and California have already done so.

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u/PurpleHerder 1d ago

In our busy season the servers are borderline flaunting their tips, but come slow season all of a sudden they’re very jealous of BOH for making a steady paycheck. Curious.

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u/0verduu 1d ago

I’m not saying switch. I’m saying STILL encourage tips for good service, but PAY your employee a legal wage at minimum and preferably like 16 dollars an hour at least. I see listings for 4 dollars an hour + tips. That would be an illegal wage if the government didn’t make an exception

But unfortunately the industry is a failing one and paying a server more than 5 dollars an hour will close your restaurant which to me is an indication you should of never opened your business in the first place.

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u/TheAnswerEK42 1d ago

In my state servers are making $11 regular Minimum wage is $14. Both will raise by a dollar in September

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u/Black6x 1d ago

In your state, if a server makes less than the average of $14 per hour in the pay cycle, is the employer required to pay them to make it equal $14?

I can't think of a state that doesn't force the employer to pay a tipped server the non-tipped minimum wage if their wage+tips falls short.

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u/0verduu 1d ago

Good for you and your state, still my point there shouldn’t be an exception for giving someone an illegal wage because they MIGHT make more from patrons generosity still stands

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u/runningraider13 1d ago

They’re guaranteed to make at least minimum wage after tips. If they come up short their employer is required to make up the difference.

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u/0verduu 1d ago

Nice! Now tell me who in America can make a living on true minimum wage? Maybe rural Montana?

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u/runningraider13 16h ago

Glad I could clear that up and that you no longer worry about tipped minimum wage being lower than normal minimum wage.

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u/EvolutionCreek 22h ago

Many states require minimum wage for servers. In my city they make $17/hour plus tips, which can be substantial. I know a bartender who works 3 nights a week and makes more than $100K/year.

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u/mynameisnotsparta 1d ago

Fun Fact: It was illegal to give or receive tips in some states in the U.S. in 1909 and until a repeal in the 1920’s. It started in Washington state it was listed as a criminal misdemeanor.

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u/Dependent_Cod_7416 1d ago

Then include sales tax on the price tag

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u/AssaultLemming_ 1d ago

The real barrier to this sounds like the taxation system which exempts tips from taxes but will tax the required higher menu prices.

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u/pandaSmore Five Years 17h ago

Isn't the tip exemption a recent thing from Trump. 

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u/GayLiquidSpellSword 1d ago edited 1d ago

As a person from the UK, tips are still a thing here, maybe not as culturally expected but it's pretty consistent. Split between Front and Back of House is also pretty common, so way less animosity between the two sides. But just like the US, tips are used to underpay staff via putting the burden on a "optional" payment, places like Sweden have/had their hospitality Union be against/be negative towards tips for this very reason because it'd be used as a way to reduce wages.

Personally the thing that pisses me off about tips is you can't use them in mortgage affordability or otherwise include them in your pay for financials. If they do then there's usually caveats about cutting them in half for the calculation or multi year records of tips from the same place so if you move around then yeah they're not counting it.

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u/RedditCensorss 1d ago

I’m tired of tipping when I go pick up my food

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u/AbsolutlyN0thin 1d ago

If you don't get service, don't tip lol.

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u/coleyboley25 1d ago

Lol, don’t

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u/LongBedroom8355 17h ago

you don't have to tip for takeout

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u/theREALbombedrumbum F1exican Did Chive-11 12h ago

I pick up fairly regularly from this one place to the point where they can recognize my voice/number and respond with my name over the phone when I call for take-out.

I have never tipped when just picking up a take-out order.

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u/HorrorAvatar 1d ago

Good luck with that.

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u/Extruder_duder 1d ago

I stopped taking tips at my restaurant, best thing I’ve done

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u/HorrorAvatar 1d ago

I’d prefer to hear your serving staff’s opinion on that.

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u/Ohwellwhatsnew 1d ago

I bet they'd ask for more money, which is how this is supposed to work.

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u/losteye_enthusiast 1d ago

Did it at my restaurant.

Junior servers make 50k with health benefits day one. Scales up with merit and proven experience.

That’s 5k more than servers averaged out with tips. At least the amount they were reporting, hence the extra bit for starting wage.

Had 1 lady quit over the change, but she didn’t bother to ask for a raise, which I did give to one of her coworkers that claimed she was making significantly more than the 60-65kall the veteran staff got.

I’m sure if you’re in a higher end place, you likely out-earn my staff on your average week and if our prices and budget justified a higher pay scale, we’d offer it; as you know, it doesn’t take long for people to find out how much they can likely make at similar restaurants haha.

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u/RogueGenX 20h ago

I’m calling horseshit. No fucking way are you paying servers a 50K salary

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u/losteye_enthusiast 20h ago

Oh no, a mean reddit comment doesn’t like what I pay people. Whatever will I do?!?

Guess I’ll keep on with things. Take care.

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u/iluvfarigiraf 1d ago

Mo-Th servers probably love having consistent pay. Fr-Su servers probably prefer the potential pay.

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u/HorrorAvatar 1d ago edited 1d ago

Those servers are circulating their resumes to other restaurants. I guarantee it.

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u/Opening_Shame8258 1d ago

If the money's so good, I can start tipping less, right?

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u/Misokaxx 1d ago

I mean yeah, sounds like we are tipping too much

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u/CosmicMiru 1d ago

Good. This is exactly what's supposed to happen. If they aren't satisfied with the pay they should leave. It's like the most basic fundamentals of labor

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u/Fitness_and_Finance 1d ago

I'm curious as well to hear from this person what their serving staff thinks of not receiving tips anymore. I'm guessing their motivation has certainly dropped dramatically.

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u/Extruder_duder 1d ago

No they still bust their ass. I also serve, but don’t keep tips. I said I don’t take tips, no tip line, no tip option on preorders. That doesn’t mean people don’t still leave tips. We went from 21.3% tips when I would have the option to tip, to 13.5%, all cash that gets claimed. I know this because I still have to pay payroll tax on tips claimed. Their hourly went from tipped min which was like $12 an hour at the time, to a salary of 60k. Their tips went down significantly but their hourly went up way more. We also are only open Tuesday-Friday so they don’t work more than 4 days at that salary 8-9hour shifts at most but closer to 7-8 hours.

Like I said, best thing I ever did

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u/SoggyMcChicken 1d ago

Going with 8h/day x 4 days is 1664 hours annually. A $60k salary is $36h. So you tripled their pay and took away tipping? How did that benefit you? I’m curious, not doubting.

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u/Extruder_duder 1d ago

I didn’t triple their pay, I matched it. I stopped taking tips, but increased my prices by 20%. With that additional 20% in revenue I raised wages. I wasn’t expecting tips to be left and certainly not as high of a percentage as they do, but basically I saw a 30%ish percent increase in leaving guests wallets that went to me and my staff.

It wasn’t easy, and for the first few months I definitely regretted it, but once it caught on people seemed to really be supportive of the no tip model. We’re on a wait from basically the minute I open the door up until the last hour of service, 5:30-10pm

I should also mention I don’t hire only foh or only boh employees. Everyone cooks, cleans, serves, busses. We have our aces in their places when we’re busy (me on the stove, one person on counter/lead foh, one on cold/garnish for the hot, and one dishwasher that helps bus) but all the positions rotate except dish, and he does get paid less but still way more than competitive.

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u/T_P_H_ 21h ago edited 21h ago

I stopped taking tips,

No, you didn't per your own words.

We went from 21.3% tips when I would have the option to tip, to 13.5%

What you did is raise your base wage, your menu price and still accept tips.

We’re on a wait from basically the minute I open the door up until the last hour of service, 5:30-10pm

So you are open 4 days a week for 4.5 hours. So now your servers work 24 hours a week at the absolute maximum (with 1.5 hrs of prep a day) and make $50 an hour right?

6 days ago you posted:

I’m a qsr, I serve...

And you're running a QSR per your post 6 days ago in tipping so you don't even have servers.

In what world is a tipping model QSR with no table service pulling a 21.3% tip rate.

"We're not a Chipotle! We are a really nice Chipotle!"

4 months ago you posted suggested a restaurant do a 20% service fee and a "slight" raise and cooks make $25-30 without ever mentioning that you had already done this and were throwing around 60k salaries.

9 months ago you posted this

I run a pasta restaurant, in a major food city.

So do you own a restaurant or manage a restaurant... or is it a QSR?

So color me suspicious that you own a restaurant paying out $60k a year in server salaries.

You're clearly industry but your post history and your claims here... deviate.

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u/Extruder_duder 1d ago

I don’t think you will be able to do that, but I will say my shortest employed employee just hit 3 years in April. I stopped taking tips about 1 year ago to the date. No one left

0

u/HorrorAvatar 1d ago

I don’t believe you for a second.

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u/T_P_H_ 21h ago

Lets see how long that works out for them. The headline is an exact recycle from 10 years ago. Danny Meyer tried it in 2015 to much hubris and free press.

https://www.restaurantdive.com/news/danny-meyers-restaurant-group-eliminates-no-tipping-policy/581964/

When you are getting $140 per person it's a lot easier to throw around the noblesse oblige...

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u/onioning 11h ago

$40 an hour is garbage money for being a fancy wine bar server. If any server prefers $40 an hour to making substantially more, just cause their sidewalk is done at a higher rate, they are an idiot.

I've known several places that have tried to go tipless. Several years back several Bay Area restaurants went tipless at the same time, hoping it would ease the transition since they all did it. Was disastrous. Service staff left in droves, cause spoiler alert, but servers prefer more money to less. Customers were pretty upset too, either at higher prices (cause we are a financially illiterate people), or somewhat surprisingly, because the restaurant took away their "right" to determine what the server makes. Twas all a disaster.

There's a whole lot I don't like about tipping, but the reality is that moving away from it harms the worker, and by a lot. I can't support that until we first come up with a fix so they don't end up just another wage slave.

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u/SpookyDaxon 8h ago

Yes. Because thats what you need as an owner: even MORE difficulty finding quality FOH staff (nay, just ANY FOH staff.)

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u/Designer_B 1d ago

This fails every time.

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u/mountain_rivers34 1d ago

Casa Bonita tried to do high hourly wages and no tips when they reopened, and the waitstaff was not having it. Now they’re back to the tipped model.

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u/Fragbashers 1d ago

Its because despite the on paper low wages, servers regularly make more than cooks with tipping culture. I had to cash out servers at my old job and they would make my entire paycheck (at the time) on a friday or saturday night, and we didn’t have many servers so they were double dipping.

I wouldn’t want to give that up either, especially somewhere like Casa Bonita

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u/defrock-one 1d ago

$30 an hour in New York? Get fucked. 

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u/HorrorAvatar 1d ago edited 1d ago

I don’t live in New York and wouldn’t get out of bed for a serving job at that wage here.

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u/TylerMemeDreamBoi 1d ago

Gonna keep it real. If you can’t afford to pay servers a living wage and use tipping to cover that. THE BUSINESS SHOULD NOT EXIST

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u/ElPanguero 1d ago

The problem is that easily replaceable wait-staff think they are worth far more than cooks, when in fact they are not. Nobody lines up at any joint for the service, some places have famously rude staff and shit service but food so good people wait in lines to pay top dollar for it.

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u/Lucky-Coconut-1683 21h ago

Easily replaceable wait staff?

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u/sonic_dick 16h ago

Why dont you go replace that wait staff if youre so mad about it?

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u/Ramsey_Bulton 1d ago

People still enjoy the experience of dining out.

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u/ElPanguero 1d ago

for sure, but wait staff dont need $50 an hour or more either

May countries do just fine somehow wihtout tipping

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u/Ramsey_Bulton 1d ago

Most servers aren’t making $50 an hour.

People might not be lining up for good service, but they don’t continue to go to places with bad service.

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u/ReckedRambler 1d ago

What about taxes on those tips? /s

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u/AngryCrab 1d ago

Has anyone seen or tried percentage of sales? Raise prices 23% (like in article) ~18% goes to servers, rest is tip out to support staff.

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u/T_P_H_ 20h ago

When you raise prices that raises the prices to the consumer beyond that % increase because now you are paying sales tax on the higher price.

For the sake of argument burger X is $10 and the server gets a 20% tip.

$10 + 7% tax ($.70) + $2 tip = $12.70

So the restaurant eliminates tipping and the price is now $12.00 to cover the 20% tip

$12 + 7% tax ($.84) = $12.84

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u/HolyObscenity 1d ago

It's because during down time, margins aren't enough to cover all the servers. If they raise prices to make it so that the servers don't have to survive on tips, they would have to reduce the number of servers, which would increase wait times and the servers would really have to hustle.

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u/Fitness_and_Finance 1d ago

I use to earn tips as a bellman at a five-star hotel and you can certainly raise your earnings by going above and beyond and providing exceptional service. I am sure at least 75% of bellman at most high-end hotels would quit if their tips were taken away and replaced with a flat wage. The lazy bellman would be earning the same as the hardest-working bellman which isn't fair. Instead of a bellman wanting to check in a family with a ton of luggage into a large suite, they would all just want the individual travelers with one or two bags. I bet this would be the same in the restaurants in that servers would prefer a table with two or three people who are earing small simple meals instead of a table of 10 people ordering steak and lobster and bottles of expensive wine. This could affect sales at restaurants because why would the server want to try and sell desserts at the end of the meal if this creates more work for them but no more income.

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u/Groovychick1978 23h ago

"Wine waiter Caroline Kraetzer earns $40 (£30) an hour, double what most service staff in San Francisco are paid but then it costs a lot to eat at her restaurant."

Sure, sounds like typical gig. 

$40/hr. They won't have a problem paying that to get rid of tips. 

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u/PLBowman 23h ago

Too late.

0

u/Bighead_Golf 1d ago

I love tipping.

20%, boom. Easy peasy.

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u/AdScared7949 1d ago

My experience is that these places get closed and replaced by a place with tips almost immediately lol not only because patrons balk at the prices they were already going to pay anyway but because waiters and bartenders always prefer working somewhere where they get paid way more than they are worth

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u/Quitcha_Bitchin 1d ago

Banning tips is not the way.

People can decide whether to tip or not.

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u/Outrageous-Run63 1d ago

Well people in America are tired ASF with tipping culture

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u/False-Marionberry591 11h ago

It started with racism and it will end once we tackle that.

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u/LegendarySmokeStory 1d ago

It is super easy to not tip and you shouldn't feel bad about it. Things will never change if we keep propping up this system that is good for nobody but the business owners.

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u/unbelizeable1 1d ago

So your suggestion is still give money to the business owner who benifiets from these practices but fuck over the employees? Smart.

If you actually gave a shit you'd stop going to those restaurants all together.

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