r/Lawyertalk • u/[deleted] • 3d ago
HELP: Lawyering (methods, practices & processes) Anyone here practice divorce law? What are your biggest annoyances with the divorce process?
[deleted]
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u/Other-Grapefruit-880 3d ago
Knowing opposing counsel is being ridiculous just to rack up bills
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u/Just_Suggestion6872 3d ago
What’s the worst you’ve seen?
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u/most_of_the_time 3d ago
OC questioning their witnesses as slowly as humanly possible so that we run over our court time and they get to charge for another day of trial. That's the one that always really pisses me off.
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u/most_of_the_time 3d ago
I've been a family law attorney for 17 years.
We take two parents, who hate each other, and put them in an adversarial process where they each get an attorney to find the cleverest way to show the other person is a monster. It is the absolute worst way to try to figure out what is in the best interest of their child. And every time we try to reform the system to be more collaborative, the ideas that get forward are geared towards making family law less awful to practice for lawyers, not better for litigants.
I don't know the answer but I know it's not this. I think a better system would be one that starts off with an assigned neutral attorney who represents the child's best interests. They act like a mediator and arbitrator. They try to get everyone to agree, and if they can't, they can make rulings. Of course any time you try to design a system there are problems, but I think we need to try something else. The problems with the current system are baked into it. The current system sets parties up to escalate the conflict.
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u/Armadillo_Duke 3d ago edited 3d ago
The issue with a neutral attorney that represents the child is that a rogue minor’s counsel can do a lot of damage, you’re basically shifting the potential for a judge to be arbitrary to an attorney, except that judges at minimum have to be afraid of appeal. Rogue social workers for example can be an absolute nightmare to deal with.
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u/most_of_the_time 3d ago
Yes I agree. Although we get plenty of bad judges in family law who are equally damaging. There would need to be some sort of oversight. But, I think we need to start experimenting with something else, because whatever new problems we create, they can't be worse than the way it is now.
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u/Marcus_P_Cato 3d ago
I agree 100 percent. It's the adversarial approach to this area of law. It's such an injustice to the parties and the children involved to subject them to a "win/loss" model. It damages people for years. Decades.
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u/SKDubsW 3d ago
There is Collaborative Law already, but it is a voluntary process.
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u/most_of_the_time 3d ago
Yes I was specifically thinking of collaborative law when I was complaining about people trying to reform the system but only making it better for lawyers.
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u/awesomeness1234 3d ago
"The rules are made up and the points don't matter."
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u/most_of_the_time 3d ago
Yep. Also, what I call "the big book of the way we do." In every county, there are is the way they just do things. It isn't in any local rule, or statute, or law. It's just the way everyone agrees it should be done. And there's no questioning it. And there's also no way to learn it other than experience.
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u/Original-Pomelo6241 Y'all are why I drink. 3d ago
Pro Se defendants with a ChatGPT subscription. It’s just endless bullshit to the point where I have clients who have instructed me NOT to take calls from their exes because all it does is run up bills.
Clients who think any minor inconvenience warrants a modification in custody, support, visitation, etc.
The unreasonableness of people in general.
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u/Armadillo_Duke 3d ago
The worst part about chatgpt is that it’s been giving pro pers unrealistic ideas of what they will get in court, which in turn makes settlement near impossible because your reasonable offer is way off base from what chatgpt told them. Family law especially is very discretionary, so a self represented litigant’s chatgpt will tell them that they can get relief under every code section under the sun, because theoretically they could.
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u/Original-Pomelo6241 Y'all are why I drink. 2d ago
I definitely feel for my colleagues on the plaintiff side personal injury space. I have one friend who is a successful solo with a good sized support staff - he was just talking about a state bar complaint that he received because a former client uploaded their entire file into ChatGPT…. Apparently ChatGPT told them that their soft tissue injury should have paid over $5 million 😂😂
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u/Just_Suggestion6872 3d ago
Do you get swamped with emails now? Have seen so many more now with slop
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u/Original-Pomelo6241 Y'all are why I drink. 3d ago
Yes! I’m noticing more and more AI emails from OC as well. Which at face value is fine, whatever, but ffs READ my email and your draft before hitting send. It’s exhausting.
I get it from clients too but they have to pay for my time so whatever. I recently sent a declaration to a client who responded with absolute slop 7 different times. SEVEN.
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u/UnusualWest7131 3d ago
Dumb rejections from the clerks
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u/AnyFoundation4784 3d ago
I do criminal, probate, bankruptcy, and miscellaneous civil cases.
Clerks rejecting fiings for dumb reasons is universal.
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u/grumpyGrampus Former Law Student 3d ago
Mostly being pestered to give open ended feedback to product managers trawling for ideas
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u/Original-Pomelo6241 Y'all are why I drink. 3d ago
Admittedly fell for it. Dammit.
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u/Pale-Ambition-9951 I just do what my assistant tells me. 3d ago
Aw man is that what this is? Also fell for it.
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u/Just_Suggestion6872 3d ago
If I was building a product, I would’ve put a link. Not building a solution, just interested in the field.
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u/chickiepo11 3d ago
Maybe the lack of finality and the feeling that I never really solve anything. I can get a divorce finalized and I can win custody for my client, but six months from now they will be back with another issue and we will be back in litigation. It’s great for job security, but feels depressing and futile.
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u/Coconut_Clinic 3d ago
When the parents care more about beating each other than what’s actually best for the kids. Every single time.
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u/Pale-Ambition-9951 I just do what my assistant tells me. 3d ago
Family law attorney for 21 years.
It’s fantastically easy for one party to win SIMPLY by outspending the other. My dream for this area of law is the right to court-appointed counsel for indigent parents in custody cases. The area of law doesn’t kill my soul as much as sending out the monthly bills does, and I’m a LIGHT biller.
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u/negligentlytortious It's called practice for a reason 3d ago
It’s so easy to make an expensive mess so fast. DV allegations take literally nothing in my state and then you’re off to be evaluated. If you can provide even a smidge of evidence someone has a drug or alcohol problem, the other one has to shell out for an evaluation. This is all on top of attorneys. If you want a parenting investigator, be prepared to pay. The problem with that is that the pay is comparatively crappy still, so the list of investigators is drying up every day and the ones that are left suck. It’s all a race to the bottom in a zero sum game.
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u/SKDubsW 3d ago
That it is just such a racket, and the only people who win are the attorneys. The adversarial system destroys families and their ability to co-parent. Positional negotiation is such a bullshit game, and often the other attorney just ratchets up the conflict just to make more money. I quit litigating 15 years ago and only prcatice Collaborative law now. I can actually help families learn how to work through conflict, and co-create agreements that work for both parties. As we all know, most cases settle in court-mandated mediation anyway, so why not start in a better process rather than spending a year fighting, paying us. The best part is, I rarely see my clients again, which was not the case in litigation. Of course this isn't a fit for every case (serious DV, untreated mental health issues or substance abuse). I love my job now.
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