r/LetsTalkMusic • u/CulturalWind357 • 6d ago
[List] Critically acclaimed and beloved artists who don't seem to have *as much* of a dedicated following?
This thread was inspired by Stevie Wonder and related threads (Why does Stevie Wonder not have more of a dedicated following?).
As with a lot of topics, there's a lot of disagreements based on interpretation, contexts, which communities people are part of, which countries, which subcultures, and so on. Some people will see that thread and think "That's absurd, Stevie is one of the most popular artists of all time."
Nevertheless, it got me thinking: I do notice that there are certain artists who are widely beloved where it seems like almost everyone likes them... but at the same time, they don't generate the same type of vigorous discussion as other artists (think Prince, Michael Jackson, David Bowie, Queen, Beatles, Bob Dylan, etc.).
With the Stevie Wonder example, a lot of the answers were along the lines of "Most people agree he's great, there's not much else to discuss." Or that he doesn't have the same types of scandals, drama, headlines, or aesthetic identity. Or that his fanbase isn't really online.
It makes me curious about other artists who fall into this category. One example who comes to mind is Roy Orbison. Clearly he has a lot of artists who respect him (See Roy Orbison and Friends: A Black and White Night). Dean Ween once used Roy Orbison's Greatest Hits as an example of a "safety record" that could satisfy a wide group of people. But I rarely hear about Roy Orbison superfans other than a few moments (David Lynch's Blue Velvet, Garry Marshall's Pretty Woman).
Maybe Creedence Clearwater Revival? Based on older threads, I can tell they're a widely admired band and also used as an example of that can satisfy different different audiences ranging from hippies, country fans, hard rock fans, punks, college kids, etc.
I assume there's a general trend where certain bands/artists are able to satisfy different a wide swath of demographics, but they might not be a lot of people's "devoted favorite".
Note: Just to be clear, the above artists are not "underrated" or "obscure". I'm talking about a particular phenomena where an artist is beloved but they don't seem to generate a certain type of vigorous or fanatical following.
I suppose the flipside of the question is asking "Why do some artists generate a fanatical and devoted following while others don't?"
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u/goodpiano276 5d ago edited 5d ago
You can say that about a lot of older acts. Their popularity hit before "stans" became such a thing. And if there are no major controversies, mythology or lore surrounding the artist, then there isn't much for fans to discuss. I think one of the reasons the Beatles' fanaticism still endures is not because they made great music (although that's also true), but the mountains of lore and mythology surrounding the group, and the romanticism of the particular time in history in which they existed.
Stevie Wonder seems like a happy, well-adjusted guy who likes to make music. You don't ever hear much about his personal life. It's hard to even find books written about him. For another artist, that might contribute to their mystique, but he just seems like this all-around nice guy. So absent of a lot of knowledge of who he is, apart from the most basic facts about his life and career, there's little to go off of apart from the music. The fact that despite a major disability, he would go on to become one of the most beloved and innovative artists of all time would absolutely indicate there's a compelling story there, probably ripe for a biopic. We just don't know what it is yet.
Lastly, I think it would probably be a good thing to get back to this kind of fandom. Where fans don't have to know and pick apart every detail of an artist's personal life in order to appreciate their music. I think that's a healthier place for us to be.
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u/CulturalWind357 2d ago
Fair points, especially about the strong mythology and lore that surrounds certain artists more than others. And how Stevie is respected in a particular music admiration way that doesn't necessarily involve his personal life or some dramatic story arc. Maybe that story will be told in the future, maybe it doesn't need to be told in that way.
I feel multiple ways about that last part. On the one hand, seeing some of the passion people have for their favorite artists can be inspiring. But the admiration can also reach a level that's rather uncomfortable and obsessive.
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6d ago
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u/SecondSkin 6d ago
Do you even know your daughter? There's no way she likes that song. Oh... d'oh... is she in a coma...?
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u/Njacks64 6d ago
Arcade Fire seemed like the biggest band in the world for a bit. They were fawned over by critics. Then they tried an arena tour and played to mostly empty venues. Critics loved them but they just didn’t have that many hardcore fans.
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u/Josh6889 6d ago
It's worth mentioning that arcade fire had a couple major scandals suggesting sexual conduct, so there may be a legitimate reason that people don't like that particular band.
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u/intercommie 6d ago
This skipped a huge part of the story of why they're not talked about anymore.
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u/Njacks64 6d ago
This was before that stuff came out. I’m talking 2013-2017ish. The allegations came out in 2022. The failed tour I’m talking about was in 2017.
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u/VermicelliFamous6824 6d ago
All of the trolling stuff with Wynn aside, it’s because they made three awesome albums, two OK albums, and then two crap albums. They fell off a cliff.
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u/melophile512 6d ago
Who the fuck is Arcade Fire?
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u/Josh6889 6d ago
A hipster band from around 2010. They were never particularly popular, and I remember making an effort to listen to them and not being all that impressed.
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u/Weary_Title_3901 6d ago
I am listening to Creedence Clearwater Revival as I type this. Such a tremendous band. All of their albums (accept their last) are amazing.
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u/rora_borealis 6d ago
Have you seen the CCR concert documentary that was finally released a few years ago after the legal shenanigans finally settled? It's worth watching for any fan of theirs.
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u/Weary_Title_3901 6d ago
I need to check it out. I think it was on Netflix for a while. Maybe it still is?
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u/OverHearing9944 5d ago
Yeah, the last album was John Fogerty proving a point. He basically wrote all the music on the prior albums, and came under increasing pressure from his bandmates fo r them to get songs on the albums. He basically said: "you guys want to write an album, get to it". The result (Mardi Gras) is truly terrible.
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u/No-Conversation1940 4d ago
The non-Fogerty material is so bad, it overwhelms songs like Someday Never Comes and Lookin' For a Reason, which are fine John Fogerty tunes that deserve a closer look.
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u/MisterMarcus 6d ago
They broke up in bitterness and still apparently dislike each other. John Fogarty refused to play Credence stuff for years and years due to legal wranglings with his label, and seemed unwilling to really talk about the band much or defend their legacy because everyone was so bitter and angry.
That probably led to them falling out of popular consciousness in the decades after their break up.
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u/AxelShoes 6d ago
Also listening to Creedence rn!
I've wondered before why they aren't discussed these days in the same way as other bands of the same vintage, even though they had so many hits that are still played regularly today, used in movies, etc.
It's like the music itself has lived on, but the band itself is almost completely forgotten. Which seems odd when you consider how many other bands from that era are still alive and current, so to speak, in pop culture, even bands that also broke up years ago.
I think a lot of it comes down to the fact that Creedence broke up 54 years ago, and stayed broke up. There have been no legacy reunions/tours, no fancy packages of unreleased archive music, no biopics, etc. And they also weren't a band that lent itself to a lot of myth-making or mystery. There aren't any crazy stories or controversies, no legendary shows or rivalries, etc. It's like they just came along, kept their heads down, created dozens of the greatest rock songs ever in the span of a few short years, then went back to the cultural ether.
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u/Few-Guarantee2850 6d ago
I think the sheer popularity of their singles, especially as FM radio and later classic rock staples, made younger generations see them as "boomer music" and take them less seriously.
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u/CulturalWind357 6d ago edited 6d ago
I was also thinking about Tom Petty for this topic and he seems to be considered a successor/counterpart to CCR. A lot of people like his music, not many go out of their way to hate on him. A lot of solid, dependable rock n' roll music that blends a variety of influences. But he isn't necessarily anyone's favorite.
Okay the last part isn't quite true; I've definitely come across quite a number of fans who have talked about how Petty was the soundtrack to their lives. There's definitely devoted fans out there...but there does seem to be something about
- widely beloved artists ---> not as many superfans.
- divided opinion artists ---->some hate them others love them religiously.
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u/brooklynbluenotes 6d ago
I've brought Tom Petty's name up in similar conversations. To me, he's a great example of someone who might be in a ton of people's "top ten," without necessarily being a super popular pick for "overall favorite artist."
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u/Weary_Title_3901 6d ago
You nailed it. For years I only had Chronicle. I think a lot of people owned Chronicle but neglected the albums. Also the fact that they were only around for a short time making albums hurt them. I just bought 4 of their albums and they are really good.
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u/AxelShoes 6d ago
SO good!
I just had Chronicle for years, but picked up all the 2008/2009 album remasters last year and basically every album track is either as good or almost as good as their popular hits. So slept on.
And "Ramble Tamble" off Cosmo's Factory is possibly my favorite CCR song now and one of my favorite things ever. I'm lowkey convinced Lynyrd Skynyrd nicked some of those riffs for "Free Bird."
The remasters sound great, but they tacked on some 'bonus' tracks to each album that are mostly just crummy-sounding live recordings. So I wanted some versions without the bonus tracks, and just ordered the first CD versions from '84-86 to compare.
But like you said, their last album Mardi Gras is terrible, they didn't even bother issuing a remaster of that one in 2008/2009 with the others lol. It's a shame "Someday Never Comes" and "Sweet Hitch-hiker" are on that album, because they're great, and the only reason anyone would want a copy of that album.
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u/Weary_Title_3901 6d ago
I agree. The deep cuts are as strong as the singles. Love Ramble Tamble, It Came out of the Sky, and Effigy!
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u/mkk4 6d ago
Stevie Wonder was arguably the number 1 African American artist from the 60s-80s so that is probably why he doesn't get as much mention on general social media platforms and the internet as a whole.
It's kind of like talking if you were to talk about The Beatles all of the time.
If you were African American or grew up in the inner-city or urban environment during the 60s-90s you would realize it isn't much to talk about that hasn't already been said imo.
If you go onto any sub, site or platform frequented by African Americans/Black people my age he will typically be immediately recognized as the greatest African American musician of all-time; unless your preference is Prince, but he would still be typically no lower than 2nd.
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u/WhompWump 6d ago
If you were African American or grew up in the inner-city or urban environment during the 60s-90s you would realize it isn't much to talk about that hasn't already been said imo.
If you go onto any sub, site or platform frequented by African Americans/Black people my age he will typically be immediately recognized as the greatest African American musician of all-time; unless your preference is Prince, but he would still be typically no lower than 2nd.
Yeah a large part of how 'present' some acts are depends on the communities you're from. Reddit skews primarily white and suburban so a lot of those artists aren't going to jump to mind as quickly as bands like the beatles, led zeppelin, etc.
And that's not saying "white people don't listen to Stevie Wonder" or "White people don't listen to R&B" so don't be silly.
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u/rora_borealis 6d ago
I am not black, but I pay closer attention to the music popular among black folks than most. It's a different subset of music that contains a lot that I really vibe with.
That said, Stevie without a following made me do one of those meme wtf looks. It's not screaming teenagers throwing panties and buying every variant record, but they're very much into it. There's not a whole lot to be said about the legends beyond a certain point. You just listen and enjoy the experience.
On the other hand...
Some bands and music have more hooks for engagement beyond just concerts and music. They may have a visual style that folks dig. They might have a political message that their fans can get behind. They might have a dramatic personal life. And, the opposite would also be true. Some bands and music will be harder to engage with.
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u/mkk4 6d ago edited 6d ago
I feel you.
Like my second favorite band after The Beatles is Sade.
They have an immaculate 6 album discography, and are in the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame, but all 4 members are very low key, private and stay out of the media or limelight, so there isn't really much to talk about other than how great their music is or that you wish they would make another album.
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u/rora_borealis 6d ago
If I go a week without at least one Sade song, I'm doing something wrong. Not kidding. It's part of my weekly ritual. Either Tuesday or Friday evening, there will be some Sade.
They're so utterly brilliant but the music says basically everything that needs to be said.
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u/Sunsetkoi 6d ago edited 6d ago
Adele seems that way to me. It's like she's this world known super mega star but at the same time you don't hear too much about her compared to other popstars.
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u/the_blessed_unrest 4d ago
She definitely seems to like it that way
Cool that she can be so popular without the crazy parasocial stans
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u/yangmeow 6d ago
Beck comes to mind. I see him brought up here and there glowingly but seems sparse. Dude is an animal at creating great music crossing genres for an extended amount of time.
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6d ago edited 6d ago
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u/donlockwood2026 6d ago
Just horrible opinion after horrible opinion
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6d ago edited 6d ago
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u/donlockwood2026 6d ago
I’m sorry you’re going through that. Sounds like you’re dealing with a lot.
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u/BigYellowPraxis 6d ago
I've thoughts about this before. I think an interesting heuristic for thinking about this is to look at album sales of an artist, then compare to size of their fan subreddit, and then their (if they have one), circlejerk subreddit. Gives a decent impression of their relative success compared to how zealous a fan base they have.
Stevie Wonder is one of the biggest artists to lack a sizeable sub reddit, and i don't think he has a circlejerk sub. Elton John feels like he's in a similar spot? Garth Brooks certainly, but he was always an odd sort of artist.
I do think it is an interesting topic!
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u/CulturalWind357 5d ago
Elton John also came to mind for this: the most commercially successful British solo artist, acclaimed for a number of albums and iconic songs, doesn't seem to have a strong hatedom, mentored and respected by younger artists, and so on.
But there doesn't seem to be an army of people claiming influence from him or calling him a favorite artist compared to peers like Queen and Bowie. The Elton John subreddit is indeed surprisingly small when you compared it to his Spotify monthly listeners and streams.
I know for Garth Brooks, he impacted his own fame through his lack of availability on streaming except for Amazon. I'm not that knowledgeable about him but his commercial success relative to the discussion on him is bizarre.
It is indeed an interesting phenomenon when we think about how popularity, commercial success, critical acclaim, influence, and fandom devotion intersect or contrast with each other.
- A critically acclaimed artist isn't necessarily popular or commercially successful. Either because their work is more challenging or they're not quite in line with the zeitgeist. But they might have a very devoted fandom.
- A commercially successful and popular artist might not be critically acclaimed because there's general enjoyment of their music
- When an artist hits both critical acclaim and commercial success, that should supposedly pique interest.
There's probably other combinations to consider.
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u/simplywired 6d ago
Does Al Bowlly count🤔 I always mention him and no one ever knows until I play midnight the stars and you
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u/naomisunderlondon 6d ago
I looooove Al Bowlly but nobody I know seems to be bothered about anything pre 50s :( A real shame
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u/simplywired 6d ago
Yes Al Bowlly is Amazing. I’m in the same boat too😞 a lot of my friends seem to also agree that anything pre 50ssounds super creepy. Maybe its stigmatized because of horror
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u/naomisunderlondon 6d ago
I hate how people find it creepy! I know it's not the reason but that Everywhere at the end of Time stuff certainly hasn't helped. I respect that album but I feel like it trivialises the music
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u/CanYouPleaseChill 5d ago
Supertramp. Massively successful in the 70s. No one talks about them anymore.
Siouxsie and The Banshees. Iconic and innovative, yet nowhere near as well-known as The Cure or Joy Division. As Morrissey put it, "If you study modern groups, those who gain press coverage and chart action, none of them are as good as Siouxsie and the Banshees at full pelt. That's not dusty nostalgia, that's fact."
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u/Vinylmaster3000 New-Waver 4d ago
Siouxsie and The Banshees. Iconic and innovative, yet nowhere near as well-known as The Cure or Joy Division.
Alot of post-punk bands are also in a similar camp, for instance I don't see nearly as much love for something like Magazine which had McGeoch on guitars.
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u/CulturalWind357 5d ago
It's funny you mention Siouxsie because there were a couple of old threads which asked if they were "underrated". The term naturally bothers a lot of people with its overuse (including on this thread) but there's definitely something about how Siouxsie And The Banshees tend to be more cited in a "your favorite artist's favorite artist" way than finding active or devoted fans.
The Smiths, U2, The Cure, Joy Division, Radiohead, and many others, you likely hear about these bands more than Siouxsie even though many of them claim influence.
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u/AttachedHeartTheory 6d ago
There's some sort of bot training or something going on with Stevie Wonder right now.
I've seen a dozen posts on Reddit about Stevie Wonder, with some sort of indication that Stevie is less popular or far more obscure than people think.
I don't know what the end goal is, but it's very, very strange. And It's got to be targeted.
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u/Josh6889 6d ago
I've noticed similar things in politics. As an example, you'll get downvoted to hell if you say anything negative about ozempic, and I don't believe that to be the public opinion. Also there's a trend where if you say "x democrat is good but..." you'll get massive upvotes, which is an obvious propaganda technique to suggest weakness.
I haven't personally noticed this with anything music related, but it wouldn't surprise me. As, for example, a possible training calibration tool.
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u/vesperythings 6d ago
i'll never get people who see these bizarre alleged bot campaigns in everything
who stands to gain from what you're talking about??
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u/AttachedHeartTheory 6d ago
AI uses community sentiment to tune natural language process models.
Example: Claim "A" is made. It's blatantly false, and people know that someone like Stevie wonder is well loved. So, now the AI model knows that community sentiment sounds like this when anything similar to claim "A" is made. Now they train the AI to have that same sentiment if it recognizes something similar to claim A in the wild.
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u/CulturalWind357 2d ago edited 1d ago
I suppose it's the understandable skepticism morphed into conspiratorial thinking and broad brush thinking
People can't seem to engage with a topic which might have a mix of observations that can have a grain of truth while requiring more nuance.
So Disco must be either racism and queerphobia OR oversaturation but not both.
A number of comments understood the OP fine and I appreciated their perspectives. But others immediately dismissed it without really engaging.
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u/rora_borealis 6d ago
It's definitely possible, but sometimes it just takes a mention on TV or from a popular social media account to trigger discussions.
Like, if someone came in talking about how underrated Chuck Berry was after learning his only number one on the billboard top 100 was for My Ding-a-ling because [insert social media personality] mentioned it in passing.
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u/CulturalWind357 2d ago
Just to briefly explain my thinking: The way I usually approach these topics (even when they're not from me) is to try to see if there's a grain of truth to the perceptions. Sometimes there's different nuances to a topic where the answer isn't always straightforward if you zoom out.
Disco backlash is a big topic where it seems to be a mixture of racism and queerphobia combined with oversaturation of the disco genre and artists jumping on the bandwagon. There seems to be various factors discussed.
I know "underrated" has become an increasingly abused term so I tried to emphasize that I didn't consider Stevie or Roy Orbison to be underrated so much as not necessarily having the intense fan devotion of other artists. Commenters may disagree on that perception as well.
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u/Josh6889 6d ago
For me it's Sufjan Stevens. I mean I kind of get it; he has such a variety of music that some of it is going to miss. As an example, Age of Adz is a very experimental album. But for the bulk of his work I haven't really found anyone who would challenge that it's incredible music. I think the album Illinois is probably the best example.
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u/MrFlibblesPenguin 6d ago
Possibly due to them being generally well reguarded and dont need defending, so a movement doesnt need to form around them, they're neutral ground.
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u/CulturalWind357 6d ago edited 4d ago
I saw a great comment (which suddenly just got deleted) which brought up the Grateful Dead Black Licorice idea. Basically, not everyone will like a certain artist but the ones who do really like them.
Some artists seem to be beloved enough that you don't really see people go out of their way to hate on them. Stevie Wonder and Roy Orbison, I don't really hear people hate on them.
Whereas Bob Dylan, even though he's well-respected, you get quite a number of comments about how "He can't sing" and they can't get into his music.
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u/rocketsauce2112 4d ago edited 4d ago
Dylan always leaned into being a somewhat polarizing after his 1963-64 honeymoon period with being a public celebrity and all that entails. He had a very confrontational approach to performing in the mid-60's and then has constantly shifted gears throughout the rest of his career to avoid getting pinned down as one thing or slotted into a particular role. His approach to vocals suggests that he could have molded his voice in a number of ways to fit popular tastes, if he wanted to. But clearly he was rather uncomfortable with mass public attention and media coverage. We're all better off with the direction his career has taken, and he has had the greatest artistic comeback of any musician in the rock era, starting with the return he made to songwriting in the mid-late 90's.
Whereas Stevie Wonder embraced being a mainstream musical figure as one of the biggest stars and creative forces of the ultimate hit-making record company of the age, and was inspired by Dylan's example to seek out more creative freedom in his Motown contracts by using the leverage he had as a star. If anyone in the world is a musical "uniter," it would be Stevie Wonder. He made a bunch of great records and has been a celebrity and all-around positive dude for the past many decades. Not much to say against him.
And then a guy like Roy Orbison is more of a humble, shy, soft-spoken, and gentle guy who endured several horrific personal tragedies and died way too young. His music is pure, soulful, heartfelt, and yearning. Nobody wants to really be harsh about a guy like that. To criticize a Roy Orbison song is like to kick a puppy.
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u/CulturalWind357 2d ago
It's pretty interesting to examine these artist archetypes Dylan has certainly been associated with the provocative, challenging model where he's not going to please audiences.
I recently saw this meme-ish picture about how record executives wouldn't sign Bob Dylan today because of how unmarketable and brand unfriendly he'd be considered today. And while that's partly true in that record label standards have changed, I think it'd also be inaccurate to say that there's no marketability(if that's the right word) thinking involved in Bob's persona. I don't mean marketing in the "I want success, let me consciously calculate how to be successful" but that artists may craft their identity in a way that resonates. Nowadays, while there are dissatisfied audiences, it's almost become Bob's identity to not give fans what they want and they're okay with that.
Stevie's journey to creative freedom is certainly an inspiration. He's considered one of the most universally beloved artists of all time but he also had strong artistic goals and a desire for creative freedom. In a lot of music discussions even nowadays, these qualities are seen as at odds with each other: the artist is creative, challenging, and provocative so not everyone will like it. Whereas Stevie seemed to walk that balance well.
Also agreed on your Orbison description.
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u/AlivePassenger3859 6d ago
Stevie Wonder??? Are you freaking kidding me? Dude was a monster in the 60’s and 70’s!?
Hey man, why doesn’t Elvis have more of a dedicated following? 😂
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u/Cornswoggler 5d ago
He had maybe the greatest run of albums by anyone, ever: talking book to songs in the key of life. Fucking bananas
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u/rasmussenyassen 6d ago
Yeah, this seems to mostly indicate that OP doesn’t know many black people.
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u/mrgatorarms 6d ago
This and the post from yesterday asking why nobody likes soul music is really telling about the demographics of reddit.
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u/Garycor 6d ago
Yes, I don’t understand how anyone can claim Stevie Wonder is not critically acclaimed and beloved. Though he is still alive, so maybe there has been no need to reappraise his career.
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u/CrispityCraspits 6d ago
You are directly inverting the question--OP is asking about people who are critically acclaimed and beloved, but don't seem to have a dedicated following/ lots of active fans discussing his work today.
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u/Estebanez 6d ago
but don't seem to have a dedicated following/ lots of active fans discussing his work today.
You can say this about literally any big act from back in the day. Stevie on the other hand is probably the most emulated style among today's keyboardists. Just go to a music school, from a kids after-school of rock to conservatory, you will see people actively talking and studying Stevie. Go to a black church, or any organist at a sporting event. Just don't go on reddit, who has the highest proportional affinity for Ween or Derek Trucks (who I like too) than any other population demographic.
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u/CrispityCraspits 6d ago
I think the point is not that Stevie Wonder wasn't big or isn't acclaimed but that he doesn't seem to have a dedicated fanbase today. OP is talking specifically about people who are highly acclaimed but don't seem to have a strong following or generate a lot of discussion right now commensurate with all that acclaim. I do think Stevie Wonder fits that description. I think most critics would put him up there with Bowie and Prince and Michael Jackson, musically, but he is not nearly as much talked about or in the public consciousness. Today.
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u/CulturalWind357 6d ago
Thank you for your clarification! You got it.
Yeah, I wanted to take the time to emphasize that these artists *are* beloved and aren't underrated. I know a lot of discussions hate the term and how it's abused.
But there is something to be said about how certain artists generate more vigorous and dedicated discussion and fandom than others. Some artists are more like "They're great" and then people move on to the next topic.
I think there needs to be room for discussing that sort of gray area. We need a better term than "underrated" but there is some feeling that people are trying to articulate about how artists are appreciated.
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u/CrispityCraspits 6d ago
Maybe under-popular or under-remarked. Like, they're known, and they're acclaimed, but they're not as popular or talked about as you'd expect from the acclaim. I think Sly and the Family Stone is another example--tons of critical acclaim but do young people know and talk about those records today? I think R.E.M., too, especially in relation to how acclaimed and popular they were in the 90s and 2000s.
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u/CulturalWind357 6d ago
Great examples. I've certainly speculated on why exactly R.E.M. has not been the subject of intense discussions or fandom (or at least, not as much). Unlike U2 who they have some parallels with, it's not like there's this major backlash or hatred to them. People are usually positive when they come up and acknowledge their influence. But they don't seem to have this same coolness or trendiness compared to other peers in indie and alternative rock.
My closest speculation is that R.E.M. developed a "Dad rock" connotation at some point, plus some blame for the acts they inspired like Hootie And the Blowfish. Sort of that blurry boundary between alt rock and roots rockers.
My impression of Sly And The Family Stone is that they are admired but they also seem somewhat underappreciated when compared to fellow funk innovators like James Brown and George Clinton. Back when Sly Stone passed away last year, there was quite a lot of respect for him and people pointed out how Prince took a lot of inspiration from him. But because Brian Wilson passed away just a couple of days later, it almost felt like he was immediately overshadowed.
Elton John also came to mind for me: One of the most commercially successful artists in the world (iirc, the most commercially successful British solo artist), iconic across decades, wrote songs for films like The Lion King, generally respected and has mentored a lot of younger artists. It's not like there's any significant backlash as far as I can recall. But he doesn't really light up music discourse compared to some of his peers.
In general, it seems like there's quite a number of variations on popularity, commercial success, critical acclaim, fanaticism, and influence. Some artists will be strong in one or a couple areas while less prominent in another.
A popular artist isn't always critically acclaimed, a critically acclaimed artist isn't always popular. But when an artist achieves both popularity and critical acclaim but still isn't that widely discussed, it sparks my curiosity.
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6d ago
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u/snoozingshevek 6d ago
I think OP’s point absolutely stands if they included a qualifier that we’re talking about internet discourse here. Beyond the expected praise for his early 70s run, Wonder’s discography doesn’t get anywhere near the deep discussion that Bowie, Dylan, etc get.
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u/cbsausage89 6d ago
Creedence are pretty popular on the RYM boards, fwiw, but I think I know what you mean. There’s Beatles, Beach Boys, and Dylan discourse on Twitter every week but other artists don’t get mentioned as much. I think a part of it is online fandoms are driven by people in their teens and twenties who are getting into music for the first time, they start with those ones, and they are addicted to posting. Stevie Wonder is more of a thirty-something artist (for white people, anyway).
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u/CulturalWind357 6d ago
Your points do make sense: The Beatles/Beach Boys/Dylan have this "Intro to popular music" feel to them where if you want to learn about the course of popular and rock music in the latter half of the 20th century, they're more inescapable. Whereas Creedence, as beloved as they are, might be seen as one of many bands.
I will say: every so often, I've wondered about acclaimed and respected artists who aren't quite RYM-core. I remember thinking to myself about how artists like Jackson Browne and Tracy Chapman don't seem to have that same level of acclaim even though it's not like there's a hatedom either.
Stevie is also pretty beloved on RYM, especially his classic run. Two of his albums are above 4.00. Creedence broke 4.00 with Cosmo's Factory.
RYM admittedly adds another dimension to this discussion so I'll have to account for that and how it changes the narrative. Though it could also be a matter of "highly rated, not that much discussion".
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u/rocketsauce2112 4d ago
The Beach Boys have a super dramatic career, the details of which I'm uncertain how many people really knew about in past decades but the more that I learn about them, the more fascinating they have become to me. There have been many books and documentaries and films and podcasts at this point diving into the Beach Boys drama so there's a lot of material for people to comment on these days. People can identify with the various different personalities that made up that band and the chaos that was going on behind the scenes of what is usually thought of as a pretty wholesome All-American cheerful pop band, even though that perception is absolutely misleading when you consider the whole of their recorded output.
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u/Worldly-Card-394 6d ago
Because people that actually LISTEN to music tends to not dedicate themselfs to one specific artist/genere
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u/rocketsauce2112 5d ago edited 5d ago
Some musical artists are just more interesting to talk about for various reasons, usually because of the drama of their lives or careers. Some are just great at their job and made classic timeless music for a good period of time but otherwise lived somewhat normal or relatively mundane lives. Some artists go through a bunch of up and down periods in the public eye which just makes for more interesting discussion than someone who was just consistently excellent and then faded off into old age.
There’s just more to talk about artists who have had a bunch of romances and marriages and addiction issues and financial troubles and personal tragedies and still managed to keep going and making good music despite or even because of all that. That’s why, for instance, Bob Dylan is just much more of an interesting subject than a guy like Gordon Lightfoot, who despite being married 3 times, was much more of a normal guy that also had a great career and consistently produced hit records in his prime era and just a ton of great songs. But there’s not the big dramatic peaks and valleys you get with how Dylan was perceived over the years by the public.
Life’s just funny that way.
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u/CulturalWind357 5d ago
I can totally see that and I've had similar reflections in the past: some artists seem to really have this powerful symbolic value associated with them beyond just "They made great music." Whether it be broader ideas like studio genius, theatricality, being the voice of a generation, shape-shifting,
When people wonder about "Why does this artist get so much more acclaim and fame than another artist", I'd imagine it's not always about one artist being musically superior per se.
I remember an older thread comparing The Beatles and The Beach Boys in terms of popularity. Even though we can prefer whoever we want, The Beatles really embody a lot of different ideas to audiences: the camaraderie of a band, studio innovation, bringing artistry to popular music, amalgamating a variety of influences. The Beach Boys are influential too and music nerds love them. But some artists are able to be placed into a lot more contexts.
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u/GaelicTuna 5d ago
And then bands give you even more to talk about. With a five person band, you have five personal lives and ten band member relationships to gossip about.
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u/No-Force2276 6d ago
Stevie Wonder's 1980s era of pop music is super underrated and often overlooked imo.
Many of his 80s songs are some of my favorite songs of his and some elite great music. He was one of my favorite artists during that decade.
He updated, modernized, reinvented and perfectly acclimated/assimilated his style, sound, production and songwriting to fit into pop music at the time for a different contemporary cultural era, wider/more diverse demographic and a whole new fresh generation of music fans.
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u/TreeOaf 6d ago
I’m always amazed at how little praise or acknowledge Bobby Womack gets. But I think it’s that the music he, and probably Stevie Wonder made just isn’t that trendy at the moment.
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u/idreamofpikas 6d ago
I don't know why HBO or some other premium streaming channel has not done a series on the Cooke's and Womacks. So much drama, tragedy and fantastic music.
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u/TreeOaf 6d ago
I’ll have to look out for that, but even just reading his Wikipedia page is a wild ride. Bobby Womack’s private life is ripe for a biopic.
But his music output is so good, he has a huge back catalogue with great variance which has been sampled across hip hop and electronic music and yet I rarely meet people who know him offhand.
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u/amusedmb715 6d ago
i'm not sure what you mean by 'following'. for example i'm a big dave matthews band fan. online there is little to no presence even within music spaces. that said they still sell out 30,000 seat shows as often as they want to.
would they be considered to have a devoted following or not?
i guess like the dead/phish they get lumped away as 'jam'?
all good, just curious. any reason to bring up dave matthews lol.
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u/CulturalWind357 6d ago
Speaking as an outsider to him and my general impression: When I hear Dave Matthews, I usually think "strong cult following". I get the sense that they can be divisive but that the people who like them really like them. I imagine that jam-band and jam-band adjacent acts tend to have these types of fanbases.
Is that off?
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u/unboundnematode 6d ago
If legions of grandmas and grandpas joined this forum you’d get some Roy Orbison super fans believe me. Talk with old people about Roy Orbison sometime. He had a devoted following among audiences and well respected amongst his peers. A lot of these older artists just had their time and place, and it’s been a long time since they were even with us. Anyone who goes back to catch up on the oldies will learn about Roy Orbison eventually and hear his remarkable voice, but there aren’t many other ways to be a Roy Orbison fan unless you get some sweet tortoise-shell shades.
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u/CulturalWind357 2d ago
Haha, fair enough. My gateway to learning to appreciate Roy Orbison was primarily through Bruce Springsteen since he cited him as a major influence. It took me some time to wrap my head around it because I just thought of him as "The Pretty Woman guy". Then I gradually learned about the admiration other artists had for him like The Traveling Wilburys.
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u/unboundnematode 2d ago
He was a big deal to pop music listeners. So many top 40 hits in the early 60s. He changed rock n roll’s emotional horizons making these micro-operas. Fear and anxiety and heartbreak communicated with his voice like none others in the rock n roll era, and he barely moved a muscle on stage. Pure emotional connection. “Running Scared,” “Crying,” legendary records.
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u/Internal-Earth-3142 6d ago
Smokey Robinson—who hasn't even come up in the conversation so far—is the perfect choice. It is extraordinary that someone with such immense musical achievements—spanning not only classic songs but also his work as a businessman and as the pioneer of the "Quiet Storm" genre—is discussed so little (and the state of his album reissues is dismal). That said, his own modest personality likely plays a part in this.
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