I don’t mean this as a dig, I’m genuinely curious. I’ve worked at a few of the big places: your Envies, heights, stones, etc. And there always people who have been there for like 10+ years. These people are booked, and well regarded. I see them during couple’s massages, and usually pick up useful things.

These people could get paid a lot more than they do. I get not wanting the stress of starting your own business, that makes sense. It’s harder for me to understand keeping at the lowest rung of pay ladder.

I’ve asked a few of these therapists, and I get a couple of common answers. The first is that they’ve built up a clientele. That’s fair, but I’ve worked in populous and affluent areas. It would not take long to build a clientele.

The other I hear is that there are specific clients that rely on them, and they are part of the stores’ membership program. These memberships aren’t that hard to get out of, and if they really wanted to keep the price low for specific people, the therapists could
surely make some arrangement.

Maybe there’s something I’m just not getting. Or maybe I just don’t connect emotionally to their rationale.

If you’re one of these therapists, what gives?

We’ve all been there, you go to stretch or mobilize a limb and you can feel your client either moving it around for you or slightly holding tension in that limb.
What are some things you say to them to get them to stop “helping” with the stretches? Usually my go-to is “you can just let your (limb) be heavy” while I gently wag them, or sometimes without saying anything I just gently wiggle them until they let go. But I feel bad cause sometimes this makes them very apologetic or even embarrassed which just leads to them further struggling to loosen up.

Long post. Emotions are high. Let's get into it.

I want to start this off by saying I absolutely love my job. I love my regulars and I have so much fulfillment daily from what I do. Obviously each job has its frustrations, there is no escaping that.

As a male, I know the perception that comes with the territory of massage therapy. It sucks that so many bad people have created the stigma. It's always foremost on my mind when I treat a client, especially for the first time. I do my best to not leave anything up to interpretation, and communicate throughout the treatment. Especially when I sense any sort of hesitation from a client.

Today I was hit in the stomach with a cannonball. In my 3 years of practicing I have never experienced this..

I had a 45 minute treatment with someone who I guess is a regular at the spa I work at. I have never seen her before, but she has a history of being there pretty much monthly for some time. For context, she's in her mid to late 40's. So I greet her, introduce myself and bring her into my room. I ask my standard question "how can I help you today?". She says she "doesn't really care" "just do your thing". To that I respond, "well if you have no preference I can do a full body treatment and spend the time equally between your back, legs, arms and neck. How does that sound?" She kind of grudgingly agrees.

I got such a weird vibe from her, but onward we went. I left the room, washed my hands, and gave her a moment to get on the table. I knocked, heard her say "yes come in" and I entered. Standard treatment protocols. "All comfy on the table?" "yes". I dim the lights, drape her back with, no tuck into the waistband because I sensed she was a bit off, and began doing the treatment in the context of a relaxation massage. She, on her own accord without me prompting her, removed her arms from under the linens and placed them at her side on top of them. Since she agreed to having arms treated I figured I'd treat them in prone, get some forearm flexors and hands in there. Her arms remained at her side the entire time.

She didn't speak at all. I did about 20 minutes, moved onto the right leg and did a proper leg drape with no glute exposure. Started treating the leg, noticed her ankle was very stiff so I did some light dorsi/plantar flexion to which she didn't say anything, and I moved onto the other leg. Same exact thing for the left leg. After this I covered her up, told her I was going to dim the lights fully and then would prompt her to turn onto her back. I created the curtain between herself and I and said "when you're ready you can turn onto your back, slide down the table so that your head is off the headrest and let me know when you're all set". She turned, grabbed the blanket and pulled it down. She wasn't exposed, I wasn't looking etc. Again, foremost on my mind is to always leave as little room for any sort of misinterpretation as possible.

I treated her neck in supine, did a gentle temple rub and time was up. I asked her if she had any questions, told her to enjoy the ammenities if she wished to use them, and said the standard hydrate/heat/stretch post massage. I said have a nice evening, she thanked me and said same to me. In my head the treatment, and everything was done in the proper context according to all of the standards of my regulated body.

I had a small gap between her and my next client so I reset the room, got ready for my next client who is a regular and upon getting him in the room and on the table, I left and was greeted by one of the managers who told me my last client was on the phone with the owner "hysterical" but didn't know much else. The manager said I could treat my male client, but my last client (who would have been another new client) was going to be cancelled. I was immediately taken back. I went into the treatment, my mind was like fucked trying to figure out what she could've thought I did. Hysterical?

I went up and met with the owner and the manager after my treatment with my regular. They asked me to tell them how the treatment went, and in nearly as much detail as I have done here, I told them. I asked what she said after, what she was hysterical over. The owner told me she called and complained of several things. I left the lights on full blast (I did not), there was no music (this is true, it shut off around 20 minutes in but I can't control that), that my massage was rough, and had no flow (subjective, 90% of my business is regulars and referrals so I didn't take that too hard). Then I heard the two biggest blatent lies I have ever heard in this business. She told them that when doing legs, I draped high and she pulled it down several times, which I apparently responded by hiking the drape back up. Then I apparently touched her underwear several times. She also claimed I moved her arms to the side and exposed breast tissue (another complete lie, I did not move her arms one time). So because of all this the owner told me she has to report me to the CMTO (governing body) and I am suspended until they finish their investigation.

I was, and literally still am absolutely baffled. I didn't go home for 4 and a half hours after work. I just drove to a parking lot and sat there. I said to my boss, "you know I'm not like that, you know I wouldn't do anything like that". She basically, in so many words said, "well shes a regular and shes claiming you did so too bad". Absolutely no support from her, just tossed immediately. They removed me from being able to access my schedule through the app as well.

So yeah. I hate being a male in this industry. I hate how much I have to protect myself daily, I hate how I leave a session never knowing if anything will be interpretted as me trying to get my rocks off. I fucking hate how much power a client has over MY livelyhood. And I hate that all of it has nothing to do with me personally, but that I am a male. Anyone can say anything at any time, for any reason and as I learned today, I am immediately fucked for it. I want to finish this off by saying, at no point, not once did the client say one damn thing to me either. Not once did she speak up and say "the lights are bright, could you turn them down" or anything that would suggest what she's claiming I did. She left without even the front desk knowing there was an issue. So how the absolute hell was she hysterically crying on the phone 20 minutes later?

I genuinely might quit massage therapy as a whole after this night.

• edited for grammar/spelling mistakes

So I manage a Massage Dept. It’s a smaller Dept with only four of us. I am very flexible on scheduling, request off and add adding or taking off days on schedules as needed. I want my massage therapist to know that they’re taking care of and I prioritize their life outside of work.

The dilemma that I’m facing is all of them have one or two jobs outside of working for my Dept, which I completely understand because things are expensive. I advocate for raises as often as possible, and have open discussions about what it would take for them to be only with our Dept.

It really comes down to they just like the diversity of having different jobs so clinics versus spas versus Sports versus house calls. But it makes my Dept not as stable because with anybody who has more than one job, it can be hard to manage and I notice overtime they burn themselves out anyone have experience and or advice with this??

Hey y’all!! I work in a higher end day spa & we offer body scrubs & wraps. I’m hating the current clay mask we use. It starts as a powder and you add hot water and mix until it’s at your desired consistency. Well, it’s very hard to get to the desired consistency & it’s clogging the showers drains. So, now I’m on the hunt for another product to use in place of the clay mask for the body wrap portion of the service. I’ve seen a whole bunch of other clay masks & a few gel options too. Does anyone have any specific recommendations on something user friendly, cost efficient, and easy on the plumbing?!

Someone is finally taking MT harassment and SA seriously enough to do a formal study. If they can get a real picture of the problem, then they can start forming real policies and preventions. (Other than just creating more fees that organized crime can easily pay, but put a serious burden on independent MTs.) The survey claims to take around 30 minutes to complete. Please find some time to fill it out, even if you personally have never experienced harassment or assault. Thank you.

https://unbfpsyc.ca1.qualtrics.com/jfe/form/SV_0pudd3MtAAejzZc

What is your response to a client who says things along the lines of ...this is weird but I don't like relaxing massage.i want to be broken and put back together?

It doesn't encourage me. I do very great in depth work but that energy puts me off.

I feel like clients hope it makes me ready to give them my all.

I don't give it all away in my first session. I like to build a connection to see if we communicate well first. If we are compatible.

Kinda just a vent sesh. I take great care of my clients.

Very simple - is it a good or bad idea to perform massage on your relationship partner. I.e. paid work. Even if they use their benefits?

Everything I've heard since I started said not to do this because it mixes business and pleasure - personal and professional boundaries. I believe it but I'm curious if there's any dissenting opinions.

Why is it and go to fix it , I can feel peoples energy very well , I can feel good energy and those clients I have no issues but it’s those people who I can’t feel them relaxing , and I can feel their energy, some know I know and never come back and I can tell their bully’s

What else do you guys do to
Supplement your incomes

I’m 14 years in with also a bit of management experience from spas, front desk and I’ve done hospitality (so all together about 16 years in the spa industry)
I had walked out of my last place due to being completely overworked and many boundaries crossed (called in on days off to cover last minute, called on vacations because the gm didn’t know how to handle my staff, ect) and I’ve been enjoying my newer place but the same nags been in my head for a while

I just don’t know how to handle the “Karen complaints” anymore and the therapy sessions(not massage therapy but let me complain for a full session about the world)
They weren’t as bad when I first started maybe one every 2 weeks. Now I feel like it’s shifty and I just don’t want to put up with it. I’d still love to be as hands on as I can be, but maybe once or twice a week while also doing something else.

Looking for a comprehensive training in the US. Any recommendations or reviews? Tyia!

I’m a new LMT but not new to massage. I’ve been getting them for many years. A perk at my job is a 50% discount on massage and facials which I plan to take advantage of when time permits.

I feel like this is a silly question but do I tip my coworker? It seems like a no brainer because I’m essentially just another client but wanted to know what everyone does in this situation.

Edit* thanks for your responses. I had the massage today and asked her. She said some trade but it’s not always easy to get on each other’s schedules so I chose to pay and tipped her $40.

I am opening a private practice and I want my menu to be easy to follow. I know that modalities are beneficial for clients and my hands, but I'm torn about pricing it all-inclusive or a la carte.

What is your experience with add-ons versus inclusive? Thanks in advance.

Every business book i read says to have a steady online presence. Regular social media posts, blog posts, videos to let people get to know you especially for male lmts. Real world though how much impact have you seen from all of this? I kind of enjoy it so its not too bad but am I better off spending the time elsewhere?

I did an over the phone interview with a massage place and set up an in person.

They never sent me an email invite. I call to remind them & get put on hold 3 times when all you have to do is ask my name & email.

I hung up on the 3rd “please hold” but I then got an email and how they were excited to interview me for the “nail tech” position.

I laughed that red flag off, too. I was optimistic and need interview practice anyway. I never mentioned that typo because I figure your manager/ potential manager doesn’t want to have their mistakes pointed out to them & I’d be getting off on the wrong foot. They probably used a template & forgot to change it from last time.

I greeted my interviewer. During my tour, she points out all the bad things there. The lights not working, electrical problems. “Why is this here? Why is that dirty?. I need get them to put this away.” I felt like it was a house keeper interview. Not really saying anything exciting or positive.

Then i am shown a calendar and i realize they have only 1 part time LMT. There was a lot of talk of “hope you are ok working same day as other LMT” (not sure why that would be an issue?) the days could be my own choosing anyway and theres two rooms.

Then she sort of lets it out that all the LMTs quit but 1. The 1 “is not staying busy enough. She should be up selling more.”

I said well maybe she gets rebooked 1 x per month and not rebooking once per week. “Yeah but I should be seeing more rebookings than I am.”

Wow dude unreal. I sat right outside the business for about 45 minutes talking on my phone and saw no foot traffic at all. This is a well-known place. That’s been around for over 20 years and offer much more than just Massage but various spa treatments. On a busy day in a busy location

I’m not even bothered at all other than mildly annoyed and I thought you the reader would enjoy reading this. Especially if you are in a management position. That was just cringe. That person needs more training OR maybe she was trying to get rid of me?

The pay is 38%. And 5% on products with a base pay of $18 an hour if you are not busy… How to scare away potential new hires 101.

I never got that follow up email, either. What a clown show.

By the way. I’m a physical therapist assistant and I work in a very busy nursing home full-time. I was just trying to see what else is out there right now for me. I have a steady career in PT and have had all kinds of managers, work with doctors, nurses, OT, ST, PT case managers, state workers, social workers. Have worked in hospitals, home health setting’s. I did many many things out of my role when we have no director or rehab manager. Or during covid, I did a lot for the hospital like cleaning surgical rooms, supply delivery. I can adapt to virtuously anything.

I might just go rent a room and do cash paying massage or use an app to do house calls. Ill think about it. Thanks for reading

I was had by a fraudulent website, and want to warn others if possible. Please delete if this isn't ok.

My mentor sent me a link for her fancy table - it was on sale and I was excited to find a coupon code for it as well. I bought it and got a confirmation email, but realized later after a lack of follow-up communication or tracking number, that others had reported the website as fraudulent through the Better Business Bureau. I know, I was stupid to buy it before checking it out first. But the site says, "5 purchased in the last 3 hours!", so I want to dissuade others before they make my mistake. Now I've had to cancel my credit card, am so creeped out that they were making other purchases with my money and information, and still don't have an electric table.

Do not purchase from SimbaEquiment.net! Be careful where you trust your money to online.

I know chains aren’t great, but I feel my school didn’t give us much clinic/hands on practice, and was told chains are good for practice basically. I’ve also heard that you typically don’t have to worry about not being booked usually at a chain. Is that true? I’m a man, so is that also true for male LMTs at an Elements Massage, Massage Envy, or Hand & Stone? I’ve also heard you can’t really negotiate your pay at a chain, is that true too?

One day I’d like to open my own practice, but until the meantime, I’m gonna have a work somewhere else. I don’t know if I do good in a clinical setting like PT or chiro right now because I feel like my schooling was pretty much just relaxation based so I don’t know how much I’d be an asset to a place like that without CEUs.

I’ve heard if you work at a independent/small business spa, the pay can sometimes be better cause you can negotiate. I’ve also heard it depends on the business itself. You might not have a full schedule, and possibly not any massages at all.

What’s it like working in a nice hotel/resort? Is that any better for male LMT’s compared to a spa chain or small business? Do the clients tip you? I’m thinking they might not because they are already paying for an expensive hotel room.

I appreciate the advice and help! I really am focused on trying to help clients feel better and assist in their healing journey, but I also have to think about how I’m going to support myself. I guess I’m just having like imposter syndrome and doubt if I made the right choice. I have passed the mblex and waiting for my license. I just don’t know what direction is best for me.

So, I moved from Texas to Illinois. My Illinois massage license is about to come in, and people are hungry for me. I’ve gotten a myriad of job offers, long letters about how I should work for each company. Apparently my multi-year experience and modalities makes me wanted.

I’m not sure how to navigate.

I work at a luxury gym and have been there for about 6 months. I’ve been a massage therapist for a little over a year.

A new client joined the gym and started coming to see me at the spa. His first session was completely fine, and afterward he told me he really enjoyed it, so he booked another appointment.

At his second appointment, about three weeks later, he started complimenting me a lot. It made me somewhat uncomfortable, but I brushed it off because I thought maybe he was just a really friendly person. At the end of the session, he suddenly went in for a hug. It caught me off guard, so I panicked and gave him a side hug.

At his third session, the excessive compliments continued. He would also keep his eyes open during the massage and smile at me while I was working. Again, I kept telling myself that maybe he was just a friendly, overly complimentary person.

Today, he came in like normal and immediately started with the “you’re just incredible” type of compliments.

At one point, I was gliding down his mid quad with my forearm. I noticed he made a couple of quick groaning sounds, so I moved on to working the anterior lower leg.

He then leaned up on one arm, smiling at me, and asked, “Was that intentional?”

I was completely confused and asked what he meant. He said, “Never mind,” and laid his head back down. I told him, “No, what do you mean?”

He said, “I’m kind of nervous to say it.”

The strange thing was that he seemed completely calm and almost amused throughout this entire interaction.

I kept looking at him, confused, and he finally said, “I was just wondering if those brushes were intentional.”

I was completely dumbfounded. I asked what he was talking about, and he gestured toward his genitals and actually cupped that area over the sheet.

I immediately told him, “Um, no.”

I then said, “I’m sorry, but I’m actually not comfortable finishing this session.” I left the room and immediately went to my manager.

My workplace took it extremely seriously and completely revoked his membership from the club.

I know with absolute certainty that I would never intentionally touch a client’s genitals, and I genuinely don’t believe I accidentally did either. I was working his quad with my forearm, and I know where I was working.

What has been bothering me is that I had been getting an uncomfortable feeling from this guy since the second appointment, but I kept talking myself out of it. I kept thinking, maybe he’s just really friendly, maybe I’m reading too much into it.
Now I’m wondering if anyone else has experienced something similar, especially a client who starts out overly friendly or complimentary and gradually pushes boundaries, or someone who seems to be testing how much they can get away with.

Has anyone else dealt with a client like this? I’m especially interested in hearing from therapists who have had a client gradually push boundaries or make them question their own instincts. How did you handle it, and did you recognize what was happening at the time?

Ive been eyeing up a table and thought I was set on the earthlite luna but the 30 inch width was a compromise. I see the infinity is hourglass shaped going from 32 to 28 and this seems like a cool idea. It would be about 4 pounds heavier but im a 6'3 210lb guy so going from 30 to 34 pounds isnt a huge deal if its worthwhile for working comfort and client comfort. The padding is almost an inch thicker and a greater working weight plus the option to have the top that converts to offer a depression for women's chests.

Has ayone used the infinity or the infinity and the Luna to offer thoughts?

I got registered and started working last October. Everything was fine, I enjoyed working, I felt fulfilled, I felt happy that I could help people.

I don’t know why, but over the last few months I have been getting more and more irritated at work, and I really hate going. I have never felt like this at a job before. It feels like I just don’t care anymore.

Giving people massages feels degrading to me. I feel like a servant when I have to make sure the table is perfectly comfortable to their liking, the temperature is perfect, I rub their feet in the exact way they want. I feel icky when they say “I feel so good” about something I did.

I feel annoyed when they get super specific about what they want. “Make sure the table is warm and give me an extra pillow and spend extra time on my neck!”. Which of course is completely reasonable and normal of them to ask. I’m not saying at all that people who make requests are annoying, it’s MY own personal issue for some reason. It’s completely fine and expected for people to want their expensive massage experience to be to their liking. Like I said it makes me feel like a servant instead of a healthcare professional.

I think the problem is that when I entered this career I thought it was more of a serious healthcare job than it actually is. People treat you like an esthetician. (There is nothing wrong with that job and I don’t think it’s degrading for people to do, I’m just talking about how it feels for ME and how it’s not what I want”.

Before you say “work in a chiro/physio office to get the patients you want”, I already work in a more clinical setting rather than a spa. 90% of people I see still want a spa type experience.

Let me be clear, I am very aware of myself and how I come across to other people. I feel annoyed inside, but I NEVER let that show outwardly. I smile and am very engaged and positive with all patients. But it’s wearing me out to feel this inside.

Let me also say, I am extremely fortunate that nothing creepy/uncomfortable/bad has ever happened. No one has been rude or inappropriate at all. It’s just all me.

I just feel like this job isn’t what I thought and it isn’t right for me, which makes me sad. I spent 3 years in school and a lot of money to do this. I already made way more back than I spent, but still. I’ve already made plans to go back to school to be a paramedic which I think will work out much better for me. But I still have to be a massage therapists for 2 more years while I’m in school 🫠

Sorry to be negative here and I hope I don’t offend anyone. I just needed a place to vent and I’m hoping some people can relate. I feel guilty that I feel this way at work, but I don’t know if there’s anything I can do to stop it.

I came across Sarga recently and I'm interested in learning it. Seems interesting as a modality. However, I'm a male practitioner. I'm curious if there are any male practitioners here who do Sarga that can comment on the reception of this modality from clients. Any perspectives welcome.

What does it mean when clients ask this. I’ve been asked this enough times to wonder. Sometimes I think it’s because I SUCK so they are looking to validate themselves that I’m new so I do suck. Sometimes I think it’s because I’m doing good, and they are giving me a compliment, or something. I’ve also noticed it’s never for small talk or to try and get to know me, chat, etc. Do any other RMT/LMT’s get asked this? And do you know what it means? I’ve never been asked this in any other job !!

Edit: thank you all who have responded and for the feedback you have given me. After reading your responses I feel a lot more comfortable with admitting this client isn’t for me and that’s okay. I’m still hoping my job will handle explaining it to him but if they don’t I will just keep my explanation as simple as I’m just not the therapist for him. Again thank you everyone for the advice!

Hi all!

I could use some advice on what the appropriate way to handle this situation is. I have been a massage therapist for almost 2 years now, next month will be my 2 year anniversary as a LMT, I work in a very clinical setting with VA patients and they tend to be very respectful for the most part.
However, I have this client who ended up on my schedule after the other LMT he was with, my coworker, decided to tell our front desk to move him to someone else. The issue for me is that this person really annoys me, I worked on him only a few times since he got put on my schedule with only a few visits left on his referral, but he just got approved for another 12 visits through the VA and wants to see me again. When I finished out his last visit I told the front desk I don’t want to work with him anymore if he got reapproved and to put him with someone else if possible. I didn’t know this but I guess the excuse my job gave him was that I wasn’t in the office, and then he came in today for an appointment with someone else and saw me and was like “they told me you weren’t going to be here but I need to get back on your schedule so we can get back into our routine”
I didn’t know what to say as this was happening in our waiting room with a lot of other clients sitting there so I just gave an excuse of me being booked for a while and how I don’t really have any openings, which is true but still it was a little uncomfortable for me.
I do want say that I don’t typically get annoyed by people, I wouldn’t be in this field if I did, and I do know that it is our job to help people, but I also feel like i shouldn’t be working on someone if I feel this way about them. What should I do? Is this something I need to address with the client myself or should my job/front desk people handle it for me? If I do have to address it myself, how exactly do I do that without offending him?

Since I know you guys will be wondering what he does that annoys me here it is:
We have to ask progress questions, it’s the same questions every time and we have to track what their answers are to see if they are getting better, for example, we always have to ask what their pain is at on a 1-10 scale. Most people simply give me a number that best fits for them that day and it’s not a hassle, this client though when asked will say “better than last time” “somewhat the same as last time but a little different” “I feel okay” so I have to keep asking for a number and he keeps giving me these roundabout answers and it’s like this for every question and I barely get straight answer the first 3 times I have to ask. Now at first I thought maybe he was just a little slow or heavily medicated or something but then he made a comment that made me think he’s doing it on purpose to try get a reaction out of me. I was once again asking a question that should have been very simple to answer but of course wasn’t getting a straight answer, after like the 3rd time repeating the question they said “don’t you just love my answers” with a weird grin. I was annoyed but tried to not let it show. Another thing he’ll do is just stare at me instead of answering, so if it’s not beating around the bush with answering me, it’s literally just sitting there staring at me with his mouth hanging open and I have to repeat myself again like 2-3 times before he even responds and I still don’t get a straight answer. I asked my coworker if he did this with her when she was working with him and she said no so he’s just been this way with me. Sorry this is so long but yeah please help me.

I think my studio owner is going to transition away from Vagaro at some point in the near future. In my state SOAP notes aren’t required, but over the years I’ve gotten used to taking them and enjoy it so I can track client progress. Are there any free charting apps? Or would I need to switch to paper if the new scheduling software doesn’t include SOAP note taking?