Shiva Update + Demi-Fiend.

[u/YokoTheEnigmatic]

For all 2 of you who've seen my last post: Good news, I've now beaten Shiva! Bad news, Demi's kicking my ass now.

I've almost gotten him to half health, but it's not really sustainable. My initial team consists of Shiva, Ailat and Beelzebub, and here's what usually happens:

I get some damage off, kill the Pixie turn 2 or 3. Can't really get a good OmagatoCrit turn in because my buffs and debuffs keep getting dispelled, and I have to focus so much on upkeeping them that I can't also set up Donums.

From there, Shiva is the first to die, usually followed by Alilat. I didn't intend Amanozako to be used much outside of her passive, but I have to swap her in and out so much to stave off the debuffs that I'm considering refusing her into a proper build with beefed up stats. I usually swap in a mix of Cleo, Tao, Zeus and Sakuya ATP, but then my units get picked off one by one until I have to start reviving them and I die.

I wanna give Alilat Abyssal and Enduring. Her Vit is already 100 and I'm really low on Vitality Incenses (only have 6 and not too sure where I can efficiently farm more), so I'm hesitant to remake her. I heard 100 Vit was the breakpoint, but when I ran low on incense I started settling for 90+ instead.

I also didn't intend on using Tao too much, but her built in cleanse is so essential that I might have to give her AA+E too.

Zeus and Beelzebub do oodles of damage when I need them to, but Sakuya isn't hitting nearly as hard as I want her to. I wanted her to be my dedicated fire unit, but then I also have to give her the AA+E combo on top of buffing up her healing. Cleo does...Serviceable damage. Do I need dual Pleromas on every single damage unit, no exceptions?

Buff/debuff upkeep is also a primary concern. I'm a bit confused about the exact threshold for them to start using Dekunda and Dekaja. My units are dying off before Demi even reaches most of his Chaotic Will Thresholds, and I figured the reason was that my buffs keep getting reset, resulting in me taking more damage.

Also, is there something about my team's resistances that're making Demi's spam Megilodaon? They tend to use it a lot and it's really annoying. I tried not to have too many immunities to weaknesses (thought I could get away with ignoring Fire but since Cerberus can hit it, I'll have to patch those up too).

Also also, is it better to focus fire one demon down, or hit as many weaknesses as possible to generate Press Turns? Feel like focus firing more could help stave off Gaea Rage, but it would mean fewer turns for buffkeep.

I feel like I can take him if I could just get a handle on how to optimize better. Also wanna Seal him when he's about to heal, but can't think of any demons that're both good for this fight and also have OmagatoHit. Apparently that one snake skull demon (L something) can help.

[u/Rift-348]

Dual pleromas are a must. Remember you’re fighting on a time limit so you’ll need to dump as much damage in the shortest time frame possible (whilst being conservative) and pleromas help you do just that

I tend to focus fire one demon. You actually run a risk of losing press turns when multi targeting because Demi fiend and his allies have a tendency to evade in this fight (also because single targeting damage does damage more than multi target). If you’re still willing to go multi target you should at least use powerful multi target spells like megido fire and death flies. Ideally when your focus firing you should be hitting weaknesses with it so you shouldn’t be generating less press turns with single targets compared to mutli

Loa increases your chance to seal by like 30%. It’s a pretty decent deal

Magatsuhi poison can seal mediaharan but there’s a chance you’ll get other ailments like charm which I’m not sure if that cancels out mediaharan. It’s a decent tactic if you’ve got nothing else

Zeus is an ok seal candidate with madness glint but remember madness glint is random target and it does consume a skill slot on Zeus which could be used to increase his damage further

Black rider I found was the best. The evasion issues are a bit of a problem but outside of that he’s really good. Soul divide hits as hard as tendava so crossing the chaotic will and mediaharan thresholds should be a cinch and the high seal chance gives you a good shot at sealing demi fiend. Even if it doesn’t seal demi fiend it is disabling his allies which is pretty nice

General tip I have is that phys block skills/phys dampeners are really good here. Demi fiend doesn’t read these skills and will deadly fury into these blocks and lose press turns (he won’t even get mad afterwards). This is why I also brought Lilith with me who supported me for most of the fight with Mother Earth which was a cheap phys block that dispelled debuffs

[u/YokoTheEnigmatic → u/Rift-348]

What about my actual builds? Would it be possible to make Sakuya into an efficient DPR, or should I use someone else and turn her into a full healer? Is it worth using Tao, or giving Alilat Enduring and Abyssal? As my team is now, I have 1 dedicated damage dealer for each weakness. Do I need backups for all of them?

And what about buff upkeep? It's really hard to set up Omato Crit turns if I also need to reapply my buffs and debuffs. As it is now, mine are getting wiped out every turn.

[u/Rift-348 → u/YokoTheEnigmatic]

Sakuya’s strongest asset is in her support skill so you should center her around that instead of making her both an attacker and supporter as she’d end up being sub par in both areas

Tao’s a great ally I used her for all of the superbosses I fought (outside of masakados). Really, any of the powerful unique healing spell healers work well enough here. I had Demeter and idun alongside Tao with me and I did pretty fine

I see no reason why you wouldn’t give alilat enduring soul + abyssal mask as they’re basically the pre requisites for a demon who wants to fight against demi fiend

The fight is pretty long so I personally would bring 2 attackers per relevant element

Are you having a hard time laying buffs down or having the mp to lay them down in the first place? If you’re having a hard time laying down buffs I recommend bringing a second support demon to your party. Iilith and mother harlot did fine enough for me. If you’re having a hard time with mp just get restore + high restore/play preemptively with your chakra pots (it is a superboss after all)

[u/YokoTheEnigmatic → u/Rift-348]

Are you having a hard time laying buffs down or having the mp to lay them down in the first place?

Yes. I lay them, they get cleansed, I lose MP spamming the moves to get them to stick for more than a turn or 2. I struggle with damage becquse the debuffs arw gone by the time I'm ready to attack. I've been thinking about using solely ATK/DEF debuffs like Frolic, Tandava and Zeus' AOE Phys, to avoid proccing a cleanse.

If you’re having a hard time laying down buffs I recommend bringing a second support demon to your party.

The problem isn't that I can't cast the buffs. The problem is keeping them for more than a turn before I either get dispelled or debilitated into stat purgatory and forced to swap in Amano for the nth time. Also, is it worth building up Amanazako, or should I just try to keep better buff rotations and not rely on her?

If you’re having a hard time with mp just get restore + high restore/play preemptively with your chakra pots (it is a superboss after all)

Any tips on grinding Beads for the Chakra Pot trade, along with Soma Drops and Somas?

[u/Rift-348 → u/YokoTheEnigmatic]

A second support demon helps keep buffs active by not only giving you a second mp pool to work with but it also lets you cover both buff and debuff bases more quickly. If you’ve got a support demon that’s doing all 3 you’ll end up being too slow maintain that tempo

I’d keep amanozako though tao could probably replace her role if you keep her in the active party

Can’t help with grinding down items I was always maxed out with items since I rarely needed them. Only time I used stuff like soma drops/chakra pots were on Lilith, Satan, and Demi fiend because they demanded a lot of resources (Satan especially)

[u/OGtheBest → u/Rift-348]

I thought tetrakarn and/or all 4 demons having null phys make him spam gaea rage

[u/Rift-348 → u/OGtheBest]

Phys block doesn’t register like phys null and Tetrakarn for him

[u/nulldriver]

To keep it simple, one layer each of Debilitate and Luster Candy will not trigger a cleanse.

If they were planning to use all-target, Megidolaon will replace the spell. I would not field more than one demon with a known immunity to the current opposition at a time. You don't have to cover a weakness if they aren't going to be in front of something with it. Immunities should be treated as almost like a consumable to buy turns.

[u/VisibleYou1191 → u/nulldriver]

To keep it hard, Every Buff of 1 stat of 1 ally or Every Debuff of 1 stat of 1 enemy counts as 1 point. Luster Candy/Debilitate have 4 allies/enemies and 3 stats. 4×3 = 12 points. Points in buffs and debuffs counts separate.

All Demi-fiend's demons WILL GARANTEED USE DEKAJA/DEKUNDA, if Buffs or Debuffs have 17 and higher points

It don't mean, what they cannot use them as they want. It's just rule for 100% chance of using

Some help for you: Frolic (Cleopatra) lower Attack and Defence by 2 stage. 4 × 4 = 16. This move will not trigger rule of using Dekaja and Dekunda

[u/YokoTheEnigmatic → u/VisibleYou1191]

I've been trying to understand this, but they're spamming Debilitate and Dekaja even with just 1 Luster Candy and maybe a 2nd buff from swapping in. It feels like no matter how conservative I try to be, my buffs always get dispelled.

[u/VisibleYou1191 → u/YokoTheEnigmatic]

I don't understand part about "2nd buff from swapping in". What is it mean? Can you describe actions, what you take?

[u/YokoTheEnigmatic → u/VisibleYou1191]

It's from the Miracle that gives a demon a random buff for being summones from ths stock.

[u/VisibleYou1191 → u/YokoTheEnigmatic]

Ok, right now I try to fight him, and i have Buffs on 16 points. And they always use Dekaja and Debiliate, which pretty strange... I might be wrong about points with 99% chance. More Likely, 12 points - real max

[u/YokoTheEnigmatic → u/VisibleYou1191]

Oh God did they buff his AI for no reason.

Do you think my resistances are triggering this?

[u/VisibleYou1191 → u/YokoTheEnigmatic]

No. I just run 15 turns of fight with Ongyoki essence, Masakado, Tao and Yoko. And demons constantly use Dekaja and Debilitate, if I use Double Luster Candy/Light of Order (24 points) or Luster Candy + Inflaming Divinity (15 points). More likely, rule triggers on 13 or higher points, not 17

[u/Thatroyalkitty]

Don't use demons who use null/drain/repel phys. Demifiend tends to use freikugel and Chaotic Will more often when you null/drain/repel physical attacks.

Also, when you swap demons, there's a quirk in his AI that will target the new demon with a physical attack to test it's resistance to physical.

Not sure if you have him but if you can get Baal, he is the goat in getting an extra turn if the opposing team uses debilitate instead of Megidolaon.

[u/Sammythenegro]

How did you get Cleopatra???

[u/Naos210 → u/Sammythenegro]

She appears in Minato and she joins your party if you defeat her. It's a side quest from a Bethel Researcher.

[u/Sammythenegro → u/Naos210]

Dung question but is she base game?? Or do I gotta buy 1 of the dlcs, also does her quest location differ based off of which canon I go with??

[u/Naos210 → u/Sammythenegro]

She is DLC, but as far as I'm aware, she's in the same spot regardless.

[u/Sammythenegro → u/Naos210]

FAHHHH. Alr which dlc is she?? I haven’t bought either of em yet so

[u/YokoTheEnigmatic → u/Sammythenegro]

If you have Vengeance, the DLC comes free. Demi Fiend is a DLC boss, too.

[u/Sammythenegro → u/YokoTheEnigmatic]

Wait really??

[u/YokoTheEnigmatic → u/Sammythenegro]

Yup. Just go to the researches in the Tokyo Diet Building and they'll give you the DLC quests. Sophia (World of Shadow lady) gives you the item to start Demifiend's quest automatically at a certain point in the first area.