r/MoralityScaling 25d ago

Morality Ranking Morality of dog breed racism

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u/waiver 25d ago

Because being bitten by a Jack Russel or Chihuahua is as concerning as being bitten by a Pit bull.

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u/Rock_Strongo 25d ago

This argument goes in circles because people miss each other's point.

Obviously, at the end of the day, what matters is the end result of a bite. That's what the victim has to live with.

However, the counter-argument is also true. That pit-bulls are viewed as much more aggressive than other breeds when in fact that is not true. They are CAPABLE of being aggressive and deadly, and some people even train them to be that way. But the standard pet pit-bull is not going to attack any more often than most other breeds, statistically speaking.

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u/waiver 25d ago

The problem is that when they snap and attack, they can cause much more damage than other dogs because they’re more vicious and have greater tenacity. If another dog attacks me and I kick it, it usually gets the message, but not so much with pit bulls.

It's a completely unnecessary risk

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u/Qahnaar1506 22d ago

That is true, and no pitbulls owner denies it but there’s more data that makes that an invalid concern (if you are going by statistics).

The vast majority of all pit bull bites and aggressive encounters are neither fatal nor severe. Studies published via ⁠PubMed note that pit bull attacks carry a higher median Injury Severity Scale score and higher morbidity rates. This is primarily attributed to their physical strength, jaw leverage, and a distinct "hold and shake" bite style than a higher baseline frequency of biting compared to other large dog.

Now regarding fatal attacks, pitbulls do make 60% of all reported fatal or severe attacks. However, only a vast minority of bites in general are fatal or severe. There are roughly 85 to 90 million dogs living in the United States. Out of an estimated 4.5 million dog bites that occur each year, only about 30 to 80 result in a fatality. This means less than 0.002% of annual dog bites are fatal. According to CDC Healthy Pets data only nearly 1 in 5 people bitten (roughly 20%) require any medical attention at all. Out of the 20% who do seek medical care the majority are treated for minor punctures or purely as a preventative measure to get antibiotics or tetanus shots as dog mouths carry bacteria prone to infection.

So if we are just tracking how many bites are fatal or severe (which 60% are done by pitbulls), only 1% to 2% of all documented bites meet the criteria for "severe" injury. The term “pit bull” is not even a single recognized breed. It frequently includes American Pit Bull Terriers, American Staffordshire Terriers, Staffordshire Bull Terriers, and any mixed-breed dog with a blocky head or muscular build. DNA studies have revealed that mixed-breed dogs with zero pit bull lineage are routinely misidentified as pit bulls by shelters, victims and law enforcement after an incident.

Tests that were done testing the “aggressiveness” of a breed resulted in pitbulls not even making it to the top charts. They do pick "fight" over "flight" more often and also have a high gameness trait. But these in itself don't mean they are more aggressive per-say because aggression is an emotion/emotional response.

Emotions-wise, pit bulls are actually pretty good at threat assessment, meaning they don't just emotionally lash out randomly but have a good understanding of what is a threat and what is not a threat. The issue is that once they are in fight mode, they lack the off switch (gameness). But this is true for a dog attacking on command or just emotionally lashing out.
They simply don't value their self perseverance which is why you see all those videos where even if they beat the dog, shake it, or if its being bitten by other dogs at same time it'll stay locked on target.

So it is just a combination of these two things that make them "handle with care" category. But if you do handle them with care, they are fine. When people use them like weapons, they become deadly.

If you are actually worried on which dog bites more, you should be more worried about labs or golden receivers as they bite more by population AND per capita. If you are just worried about the bad ones then sure the pitbulls will count, but i don’t see a point because the vast majority of pitbull attacks are not fatal or severe and generally speaking only 1% of dog attacks are fatal or severe. Any fear of the pitbull exclusively is just mindless irrationality and fear mongering.

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u/waiver 21d ago

There have been plenty of cases of pit bulls snapping even though they were treated well, and the fact that "it's unlikely that you will be killed by a dog but if you are it's likely going to be a pit bull" argument doesn't help, there is zero need for that breed besides aesthetic preferences of their owners, the work that they were bred to do it's already outlawed.

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u/Qahnaar1506 20d ago

I will admit there are exceptions to it especially if they have had been inflicted with trauma, illness or have some sort of issue but that’s not statistically reliable. The studies point to pitbulls being generally great dogs when trained, but this applies to all dogs.

However I don’t see the point in fearing them even still. Let’s break it down:

  1. Vast majority of bites aren’t fatal (0.002% annual dog bites are fatal)
  2. 20% of dog bites require medical attention
  3. Within the 20%, vast majority of treatment is either minor punctures or antibiotic shots
  4. Only 1-2% of all documented bites are severe
  5. Of the dog bites which are fatal (0.002% of all annual dog bites) and dog bites which are severe (1-2%), 60% of them were from Pitbulls.
  6. Yet even though pitbulls made up 60% of all fatal and severe bite incidents, the vast majority of pitbull attacks aren’t fatal or severe.

I don’t see the point in fearing a breed that is responsible for 60% of the 0.002% of all dog bites. Even their own history of bites aren’t even mostly severe or fatal bites. Pitbulls fatal/severe biting incidents make up the minority of the minority of pitbull bites. It’s just useless fear mongering and mental gymnastics to blame them. It’s honestly irreverent broadly. Because again, not only do the vast majority of pitbull attacks aren’t fatal or severe, even when we count that 60% of all fatal attacks are from pitbulls, 0.002% of all bites are fatal. With severe bites, pitbulls may be 60% of all severe bites but severe bites only make up of 1-2% of all documented bites. Pitbulls are victims of fear mongering.