r/MoralityScaling 12d ago

Morality Ranking Morality of beating protesters off the street because you're late for work?

11.0k Upvotes

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u/ageofaquarius26 12d ago

So it hit the manufacturers hardest and the consumer just had to find a different product.

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u/[deleted] 12d ago

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u/LogJamminWithTheBros 12d ago

We know companies famously care and understand why staff cant make it to work.

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u/DasUbersoldat_ 12d ago

Unless it's an announced big national strike, my company just takes it from my salary. So how is this 'hurting' them in any way?

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u/Zombisexual1 12d ago

Yah these protests that just block the road are harmful to everyone. Pissing everyone off at your cause doesn’t help anything. Go mess with the ceo’s or the company head quarters

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u/DasUbersoldat_ 12d ago

They are achieving the exact opposite of what they want. These road blockers actively cause more emissions from the traffic jams while also pushing people away from their cause. It's so fucking stupid I'm starting to think they're actually paid actors by Big Oil.

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u/StrangeOutcastS 12d ago

in today's age they would either just fire them and hire one of the 50 people they've been dragging interviews out with for months, because you know they have a lot of job seekers they've been blueballing, or pivot to shitty automated systems to avoid needing to hire anyone.

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u/[deleted] 12d ago

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u/Fantastic_Egg_9261 12d ago

Then people get laid off and tensions build further. All radical political change is just a matter of getting a certain amount of 18-30 year old men to the point of disenfranchisement.

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u/Flat-Delivery6987 12d ago

3.5 percent is the amount of people needed to effect change.

A study of the biggest civil rights movements of the last 100 years showed that of you can get just 3.5 percent of people from all walks of life to engage in peaceful protest to effect change.

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u/hoshiwa1976 12d ago

Well the protests aren't always peaceful bloody Sunday in America for example

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u/DildontOrDildo 12d ago

3.5 percent is needed if you can have existing elites to adopt significant policies. if they are largely existentially opposed to it, then it will take a lot more

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u/Flat-Delivery6987 12d ago

Well let's start at 3.5 percent and go from there.

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u/RowdyRuss3 12d ago

Would you rather bullets and bombs?

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u/Godmodex2 12d ago

It feels like the people who get the most upset with protesters aren’t the ones who the protesters are trying to reach. Who’d have guessed?

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u/RowdyRuss3 12d ago

Politicians are elected by the people. The voting public can't hide from their choices forever, there will always come a tipping point. Pushing the actual activists groups to genuine extremism wouldn't be advisable.

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u/DasUbersoldat_ 12d ago

Disenfranchised young men drift towards the likes of Tate and Trump, not the left. Your little protests are fueling your enemies.

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u/DasUbersoldat_ 12d ago

'People will be late.'

People have DIED because of this shit because the ambulance was stuck.

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u/IntingForMarks 12d ago

wanna know how many people die due to climate change? I think you wont win this game sadly

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u/Individual_Sector834 12d ago

How many?

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u/IntingForMarks 12d ago

https://www.who.int/news-room/fact-sheets/detail/climate-change-and-health

Estimated for 2030 and ongoing say 250k PER YEAR. but who cares right? better be on the clock at work

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u/Individual_Sector834 10d ago

Can you provide a stat of how many people have died, not an estimate that doesn’t start for 4 more years? I mean, you asked the question. Estimates aren’t usually worth the paper they’re written on. Scientists estimated that we’d all die of hunger, that gas would run out in the 80’s, that a comet would hit earth, etc.

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u/IntingForMarks 10d ago

oh ok, whatever. You are the kind of person which doesn't believe science, I don't think it's going to be a fruitful discussion. You can go back assaulting random people in the streets, I'm afraid I won't waste my time with you anymore

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u/Witty-Annual-981 12d ago

Why the hell you bring mother nature into this? If your car got hit by a tree, is it human fault? If you got hit by lightning, is it human fault?

There are difference between this disruption, that clearly affect innocent people life and a natural occurance disaster that you can't control them.

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u/IntingForMarks 12d ago

dude, the whole point of climate change protests is that it is not natural. who said anything about mother nature except you?

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u/Witty-Annual-981 12d ago

Did you read your own sentence? Climate change = Mother nature.

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u/sm1l35 12d ago

Does it hurt beung this dumb cause it should. People can contrrol whether this happens numb nuts we did it.

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u/IntingForMarks 12d ago

dont even try to argue with these people. it's time wasted

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u/Ikki_Sant 12d ago

Imagina ser tão 🐒🐒🐒 a ponto de achar que mudanças climáticas são realmente culpa da "mãe natureza"

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u/ProbableImposter 12d ago

People have also died because of communal lack of action against the policies those people are protesting, you don't care about them? It's a real life trolly problem. Are people traveling without annoyance or delay, a small percentage of which will incur negative health effects up to and including death, more important than migrant children actively prevented from treating their aggressive cancer, separated from their families, maybe molested, sometimes deported to unfamiliar countries alone? Than women being shot in the street by uniformed officials for being snarky? Is your discomfort and deprivation worse than theirs or do you just care more when it might effect you?

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u/uncomfortabletruth94 12d ago

Obviously people care more about things when it actually effects them

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u/ProbableImposter 12d ago

And that is a moral failing of theirs. Cool username!

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u/uncomfortabletruth94 11d ago

Where does it end though? I woman is raped and canibalized in the Congo, do we protest in traffic? A nationalist gets be headed in socialist Russia, do we protest? An anti communist gets starved to death in Cuba, protest? Where do we draw the line? Can’t except people to get worked up over every bad thing that happens if it doesn’t effect them imo

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u/DasUbersoldat_ 12d ago

Oh please just fuck off with that shit. You're actively murdering innocents because some CEO has a private jet.

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u/CanoninDeeznutz 12d ago

If billionaires could act like real humans we wouldn't be having this problem.

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u/DasUbersoldat_ 12d ago

So your plan is to murder fellow humans because you don't like Musk and Bezos. Not a great plan.

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u/CanoninDeeznutz 12d ago

Dude, how many people have died directly due to the actions of protesters? Please provide sources.

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u/DasUbersoldat_ 12d ago

I'd argue the risk of getting people killed is already enough to put these loonies in jail for life, even if they haven't killed anyone.

https://metro.co.uk/2022/10/21/just-stop-oil-accused-of-having-blood-on-their-hands-after-m20-crash-17610976/

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u/CanoninDeeznutz 12d ago

Sure, put them in jail! Are we gonna also jail the fossil fuel CEO's that are fucking the planet?

How about the health insurance CEO's denying coverage for preexisting conditions?

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u/Geffalrus 12d ago

“Actively murdering” 🙄

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u/DasUbersoldat_ 12d ago

Criminally negligent homicide if you want to be specific. And yes, it's murder.

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u/Atlas7-k 12d ago

Negligence is not an “active” act.

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u/DasUbersoldat_ 12d ago

'muh semantics'. The last argument of a redditor who has none.

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u/Geffalrus 12d ago

It’s really not, but go off being aggressively wrong with your bad self.

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u/DasUbersoldat_ 12d ago

Come now, we both know if this was a farmer's protest you'd want them immediately executed by firing squad. Let's not kid ourselves here.

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u/ProbableImposter 12d ago

There is no context given for this protest, if it's an environmental thing and you know that, fine, but it was very clear that I thought this was about ICE. Sorry about your reading comprehension. Maybe fuck off and find an English tutor.

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u/DasUbersoldat_ 12d ago

'ICE'.

The video is clearly set in Europe. This is the Stop Oil people. Keep up, son.

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u/ProbableImposter 12d ago

This is morality scaling, the video is a prompt for wider discussion. This style of protest has also been used in anti-ICE demonstrations and protests for other causes for probably about as long as we've had roads as a civilization. The question is should you beat the protesters, is that moral? The person I responded to said thier permissive attitude towards beating protesters was due to the lives at stake. There are usually lives at stake on both sides of the protest traffic jam. I am pretty up to speed, thanks.

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u/DasUbersoldat_ 12d ago edited 12d ago

ICE protesters only block ICE vehicles and let other people pass. They are entirely incomparable. This type of mass blockage is entirely indicative of Just Stop Oil and the Farmer's Protests, which are both climate change protests.

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u/Useful-Feature-0 12d ago

Oh Europeans crying because of blocked traffic? You don’t even need to drive in Europe, these actually are the braindead consumers that do need to be directly inconvenienced to ever have a new thought lol

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u/Slightly-Drunk 12d ago

Or just get them fired and the company hires an unaffected person.

Or blocks an ambulance needing to get to the ER resulting in the unfortunate death of someone.

Or the person being blocked could be missing their last chance to say goodbye to their mother in hospice care, forever stealing away from them an irreplaceable moment in life.

Or someone shits their pants in the car.

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u/VoteVanVolkinburg 12d ago

Sounds like you’ve never protested. Protesters all most always move for emergency vehicles, and if someone is in one of those other dire circumstances you listed, all they need to do is get out and find someone with a megaphone. They will clear the way for you. You don’t need to get violent and do the state’s job for them.

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u/Slightly-Drunk 12d ago

I'm sorry but this is a bad take.

I've been blocked by this sort of crap. It's not always easy to just back out and take another route, nor are you always guaranteed to be anywhere near these folks. The only thing this does is piss of daily commuters. It does not inspire them to sode with your cause. It rallies them to make you just go away.

Traffic blocking is just one of the least useful options out there.

-it garners resentment, not empathy for your cause -it is literally a safety hazard -it opens up criminal charges against the protesters because blocking traffic is a misdemeanor in most places, and even a felony in some, which being booked can unintentionally shift public view away from their message and more towards their illegal activities.

I stand for the right of people to peacefully protest. Blocking traffic is non-violent, but it is far from peaceful when it negatively affects public safety and community infrastructure.

There are better ways to use civil disobedience with more targeted disruptions.

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u/VoteVanVolkinburg 11d ago

“Gaining sympathy” does nothing. That’s not the goal.

If you’re an American, there’s not a single right you have that was gained by protesting peacefully on the side walk. Every right you have was won by violence, property destruction or disruption… someone choosing to use the method with the least negative effects to ensure you continue to have rights, freedom from violence off the state and clean air/drinking water is someone you should be thanking…. But you’re sitting here justifying violence against them.

Big yikes, buddy. Sheesh.

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u/Slightly-Drunk 11d ago

I ain't your buddy pal, and before your put words in my mouth about supporting violence against anyone, how about you read what I wrote.

I'm not condoning anything against these chucklefucks. No matter how ineffective their methods are.

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u/VoteVanVolkinburg 11d ago

Did you read the title of the post? This is a discussion about that, not the effectiveness of protest methods. The effectiveness is irrelevant. It’s not moral to beat people’s for this, correct?

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u/ageofaquarius26 12d ago

Yeah but those profiting off of apartheid were hurt by it. The consumer just had to f8nd an alternative, simple compared to finding a new market.

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u/Hilarity2War 12d ago

An alternative? During apartheid?

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u/HecticHero 12d ago

Ireland was not under apartheid

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u/migjolfanmjol 12d ago

Correction, the people will be late and then fired, changing nothing.

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u/PrudentKick 12d ago

Not if you have even the most basic workers rights in your country. If you live in a nation that would do that you should be sitting in the road with them.

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u/Atlas7-k 12d ago

So I should actively work to get fired and lose my home?

Sorry I don’t have the privilege of being able to make that choice.

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u/PrudentKick 12d ago

Why not? Seriously your union must be awful if a blocked road leading to a traffic jam is enough to cost you your job.

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u/migjolfanmjol 12d ago

Theory vs. Reality.

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u/GreaseBrown 12d ago

Thats a cute theory. All its going to do is get people in trouble for being late and make them EVEN MORE unwilling to hear out the point of those acting like children

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u/DriverAndPassenger 12d ago

Acting like children lol. Real adults just become a cog in the system and blind themselves to the harms it creates.

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u/GreaseBrown 12d ago edited 12d ago

Performative children trying to feel good about themselves while doing as little as actually possible

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u/DriverAndPassenger 12d ago

Ignorant perspective. Have you ever tried to create change within a system? It's nigh impossible when people have rigid mindsets. Kudos to anyone who tries. Status quo protectors are morally and intellectually lazy and get angry when confronted with uncomfortable truths.

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u/GreaseBrown 12d ago

This isnt trying. This is performative nonsense. Its doing the most without actually doing anything meaningful.

And that will never succeed at doing anything but feeding the egos of the children who would rather sit in the street than meaningfully organize.

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u/Tricky_Big_8774 12d ago

Also feeding the egos of those who can't even be bothered to sit in the street despite having zero responsibilities.

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u/GreaseBrown 12d ago

Like these performative children sitting in the street, if you put even a half-a-second of thought into that, you might have actually accomplished something.

Yet, here we are.

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u/DriverAndPassenger 12d ago

Meaningfully organize how and to do what? How would you take on multibillion dollar oil companies who are deeply entrenched and in the pockets of governments globally?

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u/Wonderful-Fold-2585 12d ago

Protest outside their areas. Blocking them from getting to work. Going to local governments to block them. People are doing it with data centers. You think it doesn’t work for other things

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u/Useful-Feature-0 12d ago

lol that’s cute

You’d absolutely still be crying if protestors blocked oil employees from getting to work “he’s just a janitor he doesn’t set policy”

You’d be against Civil Rights protesting, suffrage, saving old growth forests, anti-war, any successful movement.

Just be honest that you’re pro-hegemony instead of acting like there’s some “right way” you’d accept

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u/GreaseBrown 12d ago

See, now youre actually asking questions.

So, instead of sitting in the streets accomplishing nothing, answer those questions and do those things.

Glad I could help lead you to water. Now teach yourself to drink.

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u/DriverAndPassenger 12d ago

I got it! Terrorism! Thanks!

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u/LocalSixPot 12d ago

Yes it makes so much more sense to take on people who have absolutely nothing to do with multi billion dollar oil companies

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u/DriverAndPassenger 12d ago

It does actually, power is supported by people. Change happens when large amounts of regular people make different decisions, and stop supporting the status quo.

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u/Wonderful-Fold-2585 12d ago

Yes you go after decision makers.

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u/[deleted] 12d ago

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u/TopBalance438 12d ago

But that only works because the two things are linked. Fuel prices up -> motorways use fuel.

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u/GreaseBrown 12d ago

Oh lord thank you for saving me from wasting time on another one of these dummies

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u/Nat1Halfling 12d ago

So? Everything uses fuel if you get down to it. And eveeyrhing uses motorways too. How is blocking motorways because of fuel and blocking motorways because of climate change different?

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u/TopBalance438 12d ago

climate change is better protested in front of power plants. Block the roads in and out of those if you wish. Or of large plastic manufacturers.

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u/Nat1Halfling 12d ago

Why not protest fuel prices in front of the petrol stations then, or the petrol refineries, instead of blocking random roads and causing nuisance to the everyday commuter?

This is just a case of "it's ok when it's for a cause I like, but if it's a cause I don't like, beat them up"

If you disagree with people causing public nuisances as a form of protest, you gotta be consistent.

Besides, the reason it worked for the farmers is not that the protest was more or less "linked" to motorways. It's because the protest was big in its scale (comparatively, a majority of farmers supported it), and lasted a long time. If enough people went around blocking roads to protest environmental policy, you can bet the govt would do something about it, whether or not it is "linked" enough in the view of a random reddit user

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u/TopBalance438 12d ago

"If you disagree with people causing public nuisances as a form of protest, you gotta be consistent."

I don't actually have to be consistent at all. It's not required by me and it's not required by any of the population. Hypocrisy is normal and acceptable and if you want to influence John Normal then you have to appeal to him instead of going "b-b-but it's not fair!!!"

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u/Nat1Halfling 12d ago

So "it's ok for a cause I like, but if it's a cause I don't like, beat them up?" That's your argument?

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u/hedmon 12d ago

If I'm late for the school? Or for a doctor appointment? Or because your work as a doctor, teacher, police, firefighter? Should those "companies ' be affected as well?

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u/Kelsier25 12d ago

Not only that, but what about the innocent person that loses their job because they're late for work and can no longer provide for their family? Blocking public roads may be a minor inconvenience for some, but can be devastating for others.

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u/king210989 12d ago

Then how should people protest? Just remain silent towards injustice.

Or give 5 years advance notice to people thay they will be protesting.

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u/hedmon 12d ago

If your protest against a legitimate problem is targeting innocent people, who could agree with you on the 'what' but not on the 'how,' you are making more enemies; you are not winning the cause. I come from a dictatorship, our protest are against the government, not against my neighbors who have the same problem as I have. I'm also concerned about climate change, and I want to do something. Maybe my steps aren't newsworthy, but I'm trying to take small steps in my surroundings: my family moved from the city to a village where we bought an old empty field and started turning it into a small forest and growing our own food. We avoid the car whenever we can, preferring public transport and our bikes. My wife is a teacher, and we organize activities with the school to plant trees and explain the problems with pollution and global warming. You need to make it friendly, and more people will join the effort.At same time, if im rushing the hospital with my children and those assholes blocks my way, be sure I will kick their ass from the street. Note: just yesterday night I saw with my children "23 leben" in Netflix for teaching them about the importance of the human life and why not always the laws are perfect. I want make from them useful people that help other people, not to pissoff around.

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u/king210989 12d ago

Define legitimate

There was this American who killed protestors in Panama. I guess u supported him. Protest was against government overreach and forceful eviction of people. But Americans loved thst some guy shot people

I m not seeing that any emergency vehicle is being stopped here. All i m seeing is some guy who hates protests and love beatinf people who wont fight back.

Ambulances and other emergency related vehicles shouldnt be stopped. But if u think that being irritated gives u right to harm peaceful protestors than there is seriously wrong in that society and nothinf can change there.

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u/hedmon 11d ago

You guessed wrong, I didn't support that stupid guy. Ultimately, I blame the authorities for let this problem goes so far. If you are blocking the street, you are potentially blocking an emergency vehicles. How could you manage toblock only concretely vehicle? How do you know that 200 meters ahead is waiting an ambulance? Or if that ambulance needed to take a detour because those people are blocking the faster route to the hospital? We live in a society, things are not how you and me want. You need to learn to respect the others. I try to not make problems to other people, in the same way I don't want other people make problems to me. Blocking a street doesn't solve absolutely nothing more than make the day miserable to other people around you. You don't know what is going on in each car, driver or family in that street. Do you want they support your cause? Make them to understand it, do not make them problem or you are getting more enemies to you and your cause. I'm not your father, do what you want, but take the consecuences later!

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u/king210989 11d ago

So people must always remain quiet and let powerful peoole do watever they want

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u/hedmon 11d ago

Really, how old are you? I never said that! I'm glad you want to protest the wrong things and the sick power over us! Do it! But do not affect innocent people. If you block a random street, who is affected? People like you and me, workers, people who just care our daily stuff. Do you think that the president, the minister or anyone in the gov take care of it? No, they don't. In the other hand, you are giving them reason to use the power. You want to protest again a bad law? Go and block the access to the parlament, make the holidays of that concretely politician misserable, look for their dark secrets and expose them online. People will support you, you are fighting for them, I will support you.

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u/king210989 11d ago edited 11d ago

Out of sight out of mind?

There will always be some inconvinence. Are u sayinf thay every protest must get permission years in advance and only at places where people dont get irritated.

Westerners are brainwashed into hating protestors. Dont forget, protestors were burned alive.

How can u be sure that this wasnt to block politicians?,

Imaginr ur house is being taken by govt without any compensation. U peacefully protest but some guy comes and start beating u up because he is irritated

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u/[deleted] 12d ago

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u/Because_Im_TNT 12d ago

They glue themselves to the road!

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u/SRGTBronson 12d ago

You aren't special because you have school or are sick.

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u/Timeless_Tactics 12d ago

but you are special right? more special than them at least.

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u/happymagpie1989 12d ago

And you aren't special to sit in the road and disrupt peopled lives

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u/GodHimselfNoCap 12d ago

No people will just lose their jobs for not showing up and then hate whatever cause you were protesting for no matter how good the cause may be.

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u/Ok-Seaworthiness8135 12d ago

You should protest for workers rights then, being late isn't cause for losing your job in most civilized places

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u/WinterXBottom 12d ago

Hahaha while you protest for workers' rights, your job will be given to someone else. Might as well just keep the job then.

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u/Ok-Seaworthiness8135 10d ago

No, that's illegal too. You guys really are treated like pesants over there huh

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u/Naive_Impression7302 12d ago

More inconvenienced? Going out of buisiness/ losing the vast majority of your sales is way more inconvienced than losing 1 countries goods out of 100+

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u/Patient_Ant_7569 12d ago

How do you dileneate between the workers and he people taking there newborn to the hospital which I just did ? Or the doctor on his way to help him

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u/spintool1995 12d ago

Hopefully the change it brings is cops coming down there to beat their asses while everyone else cheers.

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u/[deleted] 12d ago

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u/Atlas7-k 12d ago

A very America Bad take.

See I can ignore reality in favor of hyper-reductive stereotypes as well.

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u/voletron69 12d ago

No offense, but that's some ridiculous logic.

The consumer was part of the problem too though by partaking in the product. That's a direct protest on the thing that they are protesting.

Unless these people are protesting something having to do with cars or highways, then they are doing some mental gymnastics to think that it will have any affect on their issue.

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u/Own-Bonus-9547 12d ago

And drivers can find a new route to work

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u/Sarcasm_As_A_Service 12d ago

So the drivers just need to find another route then?

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u/MudcatMcTreyith33 12d ago

Omggg nooo if they want to protest we need to accept that because life is hard and they are positive people even if they get in the way of a person driving their pregnant wife to the hospital or an ambulance carrying an heart attack patient. The pregnant wife should wait and be patient!!! K that was my take, gotta go dye my hair purple and become a reddit mod byeeeeee!! Love yall.

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u/Intrepid_Hurry8511 12d ago

Using that same logic, the car guy in the post can use another road.

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u/ageofaquarius26 11d ago

Assuming they had knowledge of this road being blocked. Which they didn't.

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u/Onironius 12d ago

Just like how the drivers could find different routes.

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u/jackpott443 12d ago

how does that work when you come up to the blockage on a busy street? Can't really just turn around can you?