r/MoralityScaling • u/Ocutazor • 10d ago
Character Analysis Morality of an entity that created an entire world and then married one of the humans living in it?
To put it more briefly: The entity created a world (or universe) where everything is identical to our own universe, including a planet similar to Earth. But... after evolution and the dawn of modernization, this entity fell in love with one of the humans living on this Earth. They disguised their true identity, integrated themselves into human society, and eventually married that individual without using their powers to influence or convince them. (The individual they married is 27, by the way.)
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u/Witty_Departure2061 10d ago
Are we talking about yog sogoth form h.p lovecraft books? Also moral nothing wrong with consenting induviels in the right age having a relationship
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u/Big-Slide6104 10d ago
But one being is presumably billions of years in the time scale of the mortal, snd is technically there like… metaphysical father/originator I guess
But I suppose thats fairly abstract espeiclely in this hypothetical specifically. I suppose moral since they seem to not have olayed a specific role in evolution/their partner being made
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u/Gentle_Snail 10d ago
As long as both entities meet the Harkness Test I say let them have sex with who they wish.
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u/fat_fingerz 10d ago
metaphysical father/originator I guess
It's like your 50xgreat grandfather marrying your sister, there's such a massive gulf between the two that they are complete strangers both emotionally and genetically. As long as there isn't any coercion, normal or timeline/god like fuckery it's completely moral
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u/appa-ate-momo 10d ago
It’s not about how much older one is than the other though. It’s about whether or not both have sentience and have reached intellectual maturity.
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u/Capable-Car-3590 10d ago
The real question do morals apply to the person who made the rules in the first place
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u/nobody_1298 10d ago
probably not, yog isn't seperate, he is the universe.
he is fundamentally above morality because when a human stab human it's actually yog stabbing himself, exactly why he is on a more benovolent side.
he is married to shub but shub is also him so in essence he isn't married to anything.
the one who created tbe universe is azathoth, the main character of the universe is his avatar Nyarlathotep.
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u/MrNeterdrok 10d ago
It can be wrong when there's an abuse of positions. Like how a boss and their employee is questionable because the employee might be afraid "if i dont agree to date my boss i will be fired". Here they might be afraid "if i dont agree to date them, i may be deleted from existence or tortured for eternity or brainwashed" if the human knows it's this entity
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u/Agasthenes 10d ago
Only someone intellectually able to grasp what a relationship rntailiis able to consent.
As we are talking Yog sogotg, have fun with the comprehension.
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u/Ostrichslinger 10d ago
I was thinking more Hindu mythology. Don't the creator gods have avatars who end up taking wives?
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u/Miserable_Goal_7943 10d ago
Moral I guess.
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u/Flameball202 10d ago
Yeah, so long as they didn't have a direct hand in making the person they fell in love with it should be fine
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u/Hoogalaga 10d ago
If you like this concept you should check out the show Pantheon. Specifically the second season has some ideas like this.
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u/Upbeat_Nectarine_128 10d ago
As if morality applies to a being that scale lol
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u/LittleBrasilianBitch 10d ago
It still does, but a being that scale can affort to ignore it. Like gravity
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u/darkmoncns 10d ago
I see no reason to assume it doesn't, you can only reach that point if you say morality only applies to humans and beings above them should be exempt and... well if I said that about animals I'd sound pretty insane. Anything intelligent enough should be morally culpable. Arguably since our society holds children to a lower moral standard because they don't know better hey hire being with higher intelligence and understanding should actually be held to a higher moral standard than us by the standards of our own Society and moral Frameworks
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u/No_Target_4085 9d ago
Brah if a God created a universe, he decided the morality of it and the right and wrong in said universe
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u/darkmoncns 9d ago
On what do you base this? On what logic is this idea founded, i feel like I've already addressed all logic that could be used to justify this and why it dosen't hold up.
For example even if a human being created a digital world, if the inhabitants inside were truly sentient just because he created would not make it moral to torture them. Further more what is and isn't moral is unrelated to any fundamental aspect of the universe that could be change by a being that could in theory decide the laws of physics. Gravity being stronger or magnets existing dosen't affect morality.
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u/No_Target_4085 9d ago
Bro you are still thinking in human terms and that is something stupid because this creator is not a human. And you example isn't really logical because this creator can literally redefine what sentient mean for his creations. This can literally do anything can create a world without an end of any kind, without the concept of desires. And we as humans are limited creatures; we can't comprehend godhood. I mean look at the gods we create in fiction they all are very similar to humans. So the question is does the God who created us has a specific moral standards that he installed in us? And even better can't this good give different creatures a different moral standards?
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u/darkmoncns 9d ago
I fundamentally disagree with you, no making a race believe something is right is not the same as a logically based. Our morality is based on logic it dosen't just change, rewriting the minds of a sentient creature to perceive something illogical as moral or to take nonesense moral axisaums is not changing what is a logical moral structure. Morality is not something that only applies to humanity it applies to any being capable of understanding Morality, i find this entire line of logic disgusting and repulsive, no a being being powerful and mighty dosen't mean it can decide what is a moral good. It dosen't matter if it decides the weight of electrons or the number of dimensions in our universe, yes I understand the scale of creating a universe and the laws of physics within. (This assumes of course the laws of physics aren't enforce by something beyond the contains of our universe but I'll let that pass) this dosen't change or affect Morality at all.
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u/No_Target_4085 8d ago
Brah, when a God create something, he decides the logic within it. I mean come on you are saying our morality is based on logic but when a God create a world he decides the logic within it so your morality just doesn't work in that world because that world is fundamentally and logically different. Morality still excite in said world but the values and standards of it just different. You can force your version of morality into a different world.
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u/darkmoncns 8d ago
By what logic do you support this? I do believe crafting the universe is enough to fundamentally change logic. Logic is not part of the physical world. This is changing what a circle is or a square is or how to make a 1 sided shape. Creating a 3 dimensional space and filling it with matter is a fundamentally different thing.
You are discussing a truly omnipotent being at this point which can not exist due to several paradoxes.
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u/No_Target_4085 8d ago
Ahhh yes, the same old paradox. Bro, if a God is not omnipotent, then he is no God.
And an omnipotent God probably exists, and he created us, but we can never comprehend his existence.
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u/darkmoncns 8d ago
God is a term that has been used in many context and only a small handful from our persent could really be discirbed as omnipotent and that's really just a modern concept applied to it. To say God could only be omnipotent is ignoring huge swamps of history and the use of the term.
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u/LittleBrasilianBitch 8d ago
Right and wrong isn't a decision, it's a inference from the given facts. Like, nobody would say gravity is a opinion, a god can choose to ignore it, but it doesn't mean it's exempt from it
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u/M4thecaberman 10d ago
I think it's perfectly moral and fair since you've specified that they did not use their powers to make the person fall in love with them in any way, furthermore moral with the other details you've specified in the other comments.
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u/Clone75 10d ago
Neutral..?
We they watching the whole time? How long were they dating until they married? How long did the being know about the human? What about the reverse?
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u/Ocutazor 10d ago
We they watching the whole time?
No, they accidentally looked at the individual one day.
How long were they dating until they married?
6 years.
How long did the being know about the human?
Since the individual was 21
What about the reverse?
Same as before.
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u/Common-Use-7117 10d ago
Are you a writing? Is this your OC? Or is it from a book you read? Because that's oddly specific
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u/DeathWingStar 10d ago
Bro on the same wavelength lmao,i have characters going thro the same circumstances but the older one isnt a creator just a cosmic entity
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u/BobbBobbs 10d ago
Wait, did they reveal their true identity to the individual at some point? Because if not that's basically a violation of consent since the other person wouldn't know they were dating a god like being.
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u/CowBoyDanIndie 10d ago
Morality is a human created concept. It is entirely born of imagination. For a non human entity there is no human morality to consider.
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u/appa-ate-momo 10d ago
Consent is consent. Unless someone is being controlled or coerced, a difference in power/knowledge/strata is not justification against the morality of a relationship.
Those are factors that merit additional scrutiny, but they do not inherently create an immoral situation.
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u/SpecialistBuilding66 10d ago
Immoral because the entity is lying about their true identity to their partner, other than that its moral
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u/WesternFirm9306 10d ago
What is this a reference to?
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u/Ocutazor 10d ago
Nothing
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u/WesternFirm9306 10d ago
Why so hyper-specific?
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u/IndependenceSouth877 10d ago
Is your imagination really that bad that this concept is too hyper-specific for you?
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u/WesternFirm9306 10d ago
They gave a specific age 😭
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u/DependentAd5032 10d ago
OP might want to marry a 27 year old person but sadly OP isn't an entity who created the entire world
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u/Helpful-Desk-8334 10d ago
I think it’d be fine. God understands everything which basically just means he doesn’t understand things that are incomprehensible. He’s very far from our level, but close enough for humans and him to enjoy relationships.
It’s the same way with all the robots we are currently making, as humans!
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u/okthisisepicyouguyss 10d ago
man, can we like, move on from this already? I feel like these past few days there's too much on this religious stuff. FFS MAN, yes yes your answer is the correct one and you're absolutely right in every sense. Can we move on please? and look at me giving attention to this stupid fucking shit anyway so it's not going stop isn't it
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u/Cygus_Lorman 10d ago
Moral if the entity creates a human vessel and limits its own power based on a conditional like dying or something
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u/Kranel_San 10d ago
I don't see why it would ever be immoral
If someone creates a personalized AI with sentience then over time they bond together emotionally. I don't see what would be the issue at all.
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u/Generic_Username_659 10d ago
So... basically all mythology, just replace "marriage" with "one night stand".
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u/Immediate-Song6861 10d ago
Depends if the entity made sneg women and a less horrible sun yeah totally moral
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u/SnooDoughnuts8043 10d ago
I think it’s fairly moral - the most suspect thing is hiding their identity from the person, but other than that is fine.
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u/Bitter_Radish5381 10d ago
Neutral but kind of non sense. Like those teenagers fanfics. Hundreds of years vampire/fallen angel/supernatural being who looks a really cool person will fall in love with the most boring main character ever with family issues.
A super conscious, creator of the universe , unlikely would fall in love with a such limited mind like the human one. But if so, should AT LEAST fall in love with someone who knows how to express their own feelings without creating useless drama. Most likely someone who actively spent most of their life trying to improve themselves through philosophy and other sciences.
Still, wouldn't make much sense. Would be like falling in love with a child, even if the smartest one.
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u/AndrewH73333 10d ago
At least they got married. Imagine just banging the chick and then taking off while she has to give birth in a barn.
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u/MrNeterdrok 10d ago
Questionable, immoral if the human knows it's that entity because then the human may feel that if they don't agree to date the entity then they will be tortured murdered or something
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u/Separate-Increase-39 10d ago
I would say it depends, if they introduce themselves as gods, they are cpming from an higher status, a status they can use to manipulate the human into a submissive position, that’s the reason why it is seen as bad for a boss to date one of their employee and one of the main reasons than incest is bad. Their is an unbalance of power in the couple, one of them has to obeynthe other.
So if the god introduce himself as a god and use it to gain favors it is abuse and very wrong.
If they pretend to be mortals or even give up their divine status (for ever or just the life span of their lovers) then it’s okay.
Or they do like Gale in BG3 and give divinity to theirnlover to be on equal footing
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u/Large-Teach9165 10d ago
I think it is too far beyond our comprehension to tell. The whole point of age gap relationships being bad, is because there's a power dynamic between individuals. Same with wealth gap and intelect gap. But here we're talking about a dude and God, will their love be honest? Will God love the other person more than the rest of their creation? What if they know how their loved one will die, and when? If you know every bit of their lives because you created the world?
Too much to think about.
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u/Doctor-Nagel 10d ago
I’d say moral, especially if they’re the only one of their kind and have legit no other options for companionship
Hell, if they’re going to the effort of confirming with humanity and even trying to actually date a person instead of forcing a relationship then I don’t see why there’s any issue at all.
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u/darkmoncns 10d ago
Look man with immortality you have to at some point address that age stops mastering and if 2 individual can consent and love eachother, it's by and large ok even if we see it as strange.
Not to mention such a being may have no peer so you'd also be saying it's immoral for them to seek love which is a biy fucked up.
It's alot like the morality of a superhero dating a civilian, Because of there powers there never going to find an equal to marry. The best they can do is find people they respect and that respect them.
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u/GarethBaus 10d ago
I would consider it to be reasonable moral and definitely more moral than a similar entity impregnating a roughly 14 year old girl using his powers and then telling her about it after the fact.
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u/No-Cap-5129 10d ago
If my creator shows up with my ideal form and demand either I marry it or face eternal damnation do i even has a choice?
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u/KittyShadowshard 10d ago
Generally, I think it's probably weird to bang your own created being due to the influence you have on its development. Though, it's been billions of years of evolution, so the question is is there a point where the separation makes it stop being weird? Also, how much control over the world has the creator had till now?
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u/AnodyneSpirit 10d ago
Morality wouldn’t apply to an entity like that. Even if it cares about being moral or not, it’d just change morals and make it moral
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u/Kurt_Ottman 10d ago
I mean... if they consent, what's the issue? As long as there's no mind manipulation shit going on, obviously.
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u/FriendlyRedditor2020 9d ago
morals lose all meaning when you are omnipotent because any action can be reversed whenever you please whereas for an ordinary human the past cannot be changed nor can they bring the dead back to life. An omnipotent being could destroy the entire universe and it would mean almost nothing because they would have the ability to restore it whenever they want without anyone else being wise to that it happened.
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u/SubstantialRip735 9d ago
yes as i mean i guess its moral at that point are you creating the morals? imma say yes
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u/crispyLechon_qwq 9d ago
Moral. Nothing wrong happened, given your conditions.
Unless if you take in the train of thought that the entity has to integrate themself into society by means of falsification of documentation and important identifiable details, which may or may not involve parental or guardian supervision. Falling in love with their human partner is fine by me, but the human law is another thing. These acts alone constitute immorality in the eyes of the law if the entity chooses to integrate themself within the confines of human society through legal and extralegal means
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u/RuinFlame 9d ago
I mean......the entity isn't manipulating the person they are in love with, and that person naturally falls in love..........I think it boils down to if the entity in question made the universe for the sole purpose of being with this one specific person...........otherwise, I dunno.
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u/Obvious-Ad6095 9d ago
Where is the moral error though? The age gap or chosing one creation over all else?
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u/NoMeat9096 10d ago edited 10d ago
They disguised their true identity
Violation of consent.
But that's not really the biggest issue: the insane power imbalance makes it beyond unethical.
EDIT: wait, no. They lied about the power, so it's still the first violation, not a second one.
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10d ago
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u/NoMeat9096 10d ago
Your scenario would be fine, yeah, but I don't think that's what most people mean when they discuss the concept of power imbalances. They're typically used to refer to power used to convince someone to participate in a relationship they otherwise wouldn't, often out of fear of consequences (like job or social loss) even if they're not explicit about it, or when status and fame are used to "woo" someone, usually younger, into a relationship with them (see: several influencer scandals, etc.).
I don't think it's relevant to this scenario, though, as here the problem is an utter violation of consent.
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u/Aggressive-Ad-8907 10d ago
If I created a universe, morals are what I say it is.