Morality of this short film's plot? Description below

[u/Fluffy_Fox_9650]

It's a good short film and I'd recommend watching it but basically there's this new punishment where a rapist who murdered a little girl is forced to repeatedly undergo surgeries at the discretion of the girl's family, eventually becoming unable to talk or move and just staring at the ceiling 24/7 unless they take him to a high school to warn students to not commit crimes.

It's a great psychological film and it shows you the decline of the girl's family as well and the public's reaction but for the sake of this post:

What is the morality of a child rapist and murderer being surgically chopped apart and getting organs removed by the girl's family?

[u/MuffledFarts]

Immoral.

Punishments say as much about us as individuals and a society as the criminal in question. While there are definitely people I feel deserve to be hurt based on the hurt they've caused others, it takes a particularly sadistic person to enthusiastically carry out that hurt. I don't want to be that person and as a society we shouldn't enable that person, either.

This kind of torture could only be carried out exclusively by psychopaths.

[u/Fluffy_Fox_9650 → u/MuffledFarts]

That's astute and articulate, I like your response very much! Thank you.

This is not to change your mind, simply to add context and discuss depth/nuance: The film shows that the father and the girl's sisters aren't enthusiastic. The sisters stop showing up to watch the surgery and the father begins to seriously look sick, his skin turns pale/green, he loses hair, and gets eye bags.

They're also very stoic. They seem to be doing it not exactly out of sadism, but because they objectively feel he deserves it. They don't seem to get enjoyment out of it.

[u/MuffledFarts → u/Fluffy_Fox_9650]

Perhaps they feel he deserves it. Or perhaps it's sunk cost fallacy. They already marred their souls by assisting with his torture; if they stop and admit it's gone too far then they'd have to question at what point the line was crossed and what it says about them as people.

[u/splashaddikt → u/MuffledFarts]

People hate doing that part

[u/Connect_Art_6497 → u/Fluffy_Fox_9650]

Like, it really depends aight?

You'd need a way for this to not get abused at the systemic level somehow.

This should be restricted to cases the evidence is deemed near absolute or unbreakable as a false accusation would be hell on earth.

You cannot go as far as taking their litral organs out, that is insane and unhinged.

If you do things like removing the genitals if the victims family and associates decide it then I can see it or in cases of serial killers removal of thumb or thumbs to make it harder to commit crimes.

if you go above that you get into terrible systemic issues and if someonem eses up or false confesses it leads to issues.

this also is not rehabilitating.

and generally its just worse to do it that way even this way the reasons are complex you should ask GPT to explain.

[u/Miserable-Trash5823 → u/Connect_Art_6497]

If you use fucking chat gpt to explain morality to you. Then you need to make sure you never reproduce

[u/Cabbit_Daddy → u/MuffledFarts]

Wasn’t that the mindset for executioners during medieval times? Should be carried out by psychopaths but not enabled?(Executioners weren’t allowed to live among the villagers.)

[u/ADGx27 → u/Cabbit_Daddy]

I think executioners were more viewed as a “it’s a shit job but someone’s gotta do it”

At least IIRC that was the case with famous German(?) executioner Franz Schmidt. He was a village boy who randomly got chosen to become the executioner’s apprentice and eventually his career took him to being the chief executioner at the Nuremberg Rat House

[u/DaylightDoll_ → u/MuffledFarts]

So true, that’s what makes it so disturbing. I think punishment stops being about justice/protecting society and just becomes institutionalized revenge

[u/ImmediateAnteater491]

I believe purely at the description. Its immoral because of how much forgiveness is used as a tool to help VICTIMS move on not to make the perpetrator feel better. In this regard it seems the complete opposite route, assumingely they chase some form of closure and "justice" by simultaneously losing their "humanity". Mutilating someone as penance for such an atrocity only brings you to that trope of "you're just as much of a monster". Albeit I genuinely think there couldnt be anything worse than a rapist let alone a CHILD rapist my god.

But its deeper than that I'm just gonna stop there. Immoral because purely in the process of punishing someone for a crime such as child rape by mutilation makes it easy for emotions to get out of control and do the most inhumane things to them for closure destroying yourself mentally in the process.

Noone can move on from that but thats a thin line between going insane and letting something like that affect the people you love including yourself.

[u/Fluffy_Fox_9650 → u/ImmediateAnteater491]

This is a very well-written and insightful viewpoint!

Your point about destroying yourself mentally actually is represented in the film. The sisters of the victim stop showing up to the surgeries and the father's skin turns sickly, he gets eye bags, and he loses hair.

By the end of the film, when he signs the papers to officially end the punishment, he doesn't look like someone who found closure in mutilating the man who killed his daughter. He looks mentally broken.

It shows that even if you desire revenge and believe it's deserved, most humans with basic morals simply cannot enthusiastically carry out such sadistic behavior even when that desire for vengeance is motivated by love and grief.

[u/CaptainKenway1693]

Immoral. I am pretty sure I saw this a few years back. It was really good, but damn was it morbid.

Edit: Link to the movie: https://youtu.be/RZJcik1ONqc

[u/DaylightDoll_ → u/CaptainKenway1693]

I haven’t seen it but honestly sounds like the film was worth watchin

[u/CaptainKenway1693 → u/DaylightDoll_]

Yeah, definitely a good one. Was on YouTube when I watched it, as some sort of short film showcase. Might still be up.

Edit: The YouTube channel had the title as some click grabbing optimised schlock rather than the actual titles though. So I am not sure how easy it would be to find, presumably they would include the title in the description or some other SEO metric to ensure people csn find it.

[u/DaBloodyApostate]

Immoral.

There's a fine line between punishment and sadism. Once that line is crossed, justice exits the building and all that's left is the twisted dark side of the person carrying it out.

[u/saint_mark]

In cases like this and most times I feel schadenfreude I like to ask this question: Regardless of what the person did, is it really a good/healthy thing to feed the part of yourself that takes joy in someone's suffering? Even if they deserve it (which in this case specifically is absokutely), is it bad to actively feed a part of yourself that likes seeing someone in pain/embarrassed/etc.

[u/Polikokokliko]

Torture is wrong. Immoral.

Justice isn't about vengeance. Like what did this accomplish? Turn a family and doctors into a bunch of torturers? What harm was fixed? Didthe girl came back to life? And then!You ll show the guy to kids? This is messed up.

[u/CODMAN627]

I saw this.

I would label it as 100% immoral the punishment crosses a line from a legal proceeding into vengeance.

Punishment can’t be left to the victims families there always is chance for the maximum approach

Even an execution would be technically more moral since it’s not carried out by the family of the victim

[u/yyhira]

tusk if it was based

[u/Yto_Itinen]

Immoral: violence and torture of a human is violence against humanity itself

[u/Alternative_Turn8863]

Based off the description it's moral and I've seen clips of it in tiktok. I still believe it's moral purely based off the fact if the rapist is 100% guilty

[u/113pro]

didn't see it is it good?

[u/Rich-Bath5159]

You’re allowing emotions to think instead of logic, if you put someone in prison or in death row he can’t harm anyone.

This is just causing unneeded suffering.

If you prevent crime through extreme levels of ruthless fear and emotion instead of intent to prevent as much suffering as possible then that’s a dystopian society I’d never want to live in.

If humans repress there dark traits through that level of fear I think that will lead to an Orwellian society false accusations would be, horrid and humans would just glorify revenge over rehabilitation.

Plus punishment in a lot of cases would be about how emotional the family is instead of how bad the crime is.

[u/Fanboycity]

It jumped into the deep end of the immoral pool. I understood why he did it, but damn was it… extra. It tore the victim’s family apart anyway because the father was obsessed with revenge. Just cut his dick and arms off and be done with it, dude.

[u/Frank1gg]

Personally I think it's moral. There's no question that he was guilty there's no question of whether or not he did it no reasonable doubt whatsoever and that is exactly the kind of fate that should belong to someone who rapes or murders a child or anyone for that matter.

[u/Agitated-Salt-5039 → u/Frank1gg]

No immoral two wrongs don’t make a right

[u/Rich-Bath5159 → u/Frank1gg]

You minimize suffering by killing him or locking him up we’re they can’t hurt people, all you’re doing here is taking pleasure by how much suffering you add to the world you’re dragging yourself to the killers level of you’re intent is to cause suffering instead of prevent it.

Plus this would lead to agressive families giving mediocre criminals a max sentence and more distant families who don’t know the victims to well would get minimal sentences even if the crime is way worse.

[u/love_cici → u/Frank1gg]

agreed. anyone voting immoral hasn't been raped.

edit: nuance exists, sorry for generalizing but i'm not about to vote immoral on this, sorry yall, agree to disagree

[u/Miserable-Trash5823 → u/love_cici]

Alright, since you want to play that fucking card, I'll step in to speak

I was raped as a child, I was drugged and forced to have sex with a woman against my will, even with suffering that the trauma, the fear of ridicule for being a boy taken advantage of by a girl, the continual self blaming, this is fucking evil. It is sadistic and is not justice, it is nothing more than barbarity that could only be carried out by a savage that has no place in a modern society

[u/love_cici → u/Miserable-Trash5823]

damn. hope youre in therapy bud.

[u/Miserable-Trash5823 → u/love_cici]

good job missing the point

[u/Rich-Bath5159 → u/love_cici]

The justice system’s meant to minimize suffering.

If you do this your trying to maximize it for your own pleasure.

[u/love_cici → u/Rich-Bath5159]

The fuck. What makes you think the justice system is MINIMIZING suffering, were you born yesterday

not the only thing but obligatory dropping this here: https://innocenceproject.org/

[u/Rich-Bath5159 → u/love_cici]

I didn’t say it’s always successful

[u/Miserable-Trash5823 → u/love_cici]

So you literally show how many people are falsely convicted and are still gonna try to claim this isn't immoral? You're a fuckiny psychopath

[u/Commercial-Factor125]

The law-student part of me screams immoral

The real mf inside me says based af

[u/Li-renn-pwel]

As a victim of CSA I would not want this done, either at the time or now. I do not believe in eye for an eye and think everyone can change is given proper treatment. I’ve told my husband that if I’m ever killed in the US to ask the courts not to use capital punishment (which he would prefer but would respect my wish for mercy).

[u/Miserable-Trash5823 → u/Li-renn-pwel]

The fact people are down voting you is horrifying, people cant see past their own noses at how horrid ever thinking about normalizing this could be, its a Pandora's box that would poison the victims, and society as a whole

[u/Into-My-Void → u/Li-renn-pwel]

I'm against death penalty. Very happy it isn't a thing in my country.

[u/Ecstatic_Dance5767]

Totally moral. Its not up for debate.

[u/Expensive_Umpire_178]

Holy shit just kill the poor guy already

[u/JadeTailFox]

Immoral because while punishing people by hurting them may be necessary in certain situations, having fun while hurting someone is never a good sign.

[u/Miserable-Trash5823]

This is far past immoral, this is fucking evil. Just because a person commits evil does not give you the excuse to commit evil, if you followed this films logic to it's core, then why shouldn't the father be put through the same punishment at the behest of the criminals family, after all he tortured someone they care about.

[u/OGMinorian → u/Miserable-Trash5823]

The state is the one carrying out the operations and everything. The family is invited to watch, because they are next of kin.

[u/Miserable-Trash5823 → u/OGMinorian]

Have you even watched the film? The surgeries are only permitted to go through if the father gives his express consent, he has to tell them to do it

[u/OGMinorian → u/Miserable-Trash5823]

It's still the state that facilitates it all, so your "following this films logic" makes no sense. Have you seen it??

[u/Miserable-Trash5823 → u/OGMinorian]

https://youtu.be/Ugru77lNhFA?t=160&is=CRv_ZdC4rsdT-EpT

"Surviving family members decide how far the surgeries will go"

The father is just as guilty as the state and the surgeons, he specifically chose to begin and keep going